[Deck] GW/x Maverick

They have upto 8 Sol-lands. 6 realistically, but still more than 4. The scenarios are closer to ~so often than ~never.

Point is, you need to answer their cards from turn 1. Without access to blue (or running the ultra-variant Mana Tithe), there are not many good ways to interact with such combos. Hence, putting blue and playing Bant is better in Combo metagames.

If, however, your metagame is Europe and everyone is running Mid-range, then by all means enjoy winning with Maverick. There is a good reason why Maverick is so underplayed in the United States metagame and that reason is because of the prevalence of Stoneblade and Combo.

First of all: none of that explains why you have the 2 Ethersworn Canonist in the Sideboard and the tutors to search for them. They also come down on turn 2 like Thorn but then... they do nothing. Why would you play Anti combo cards that are irrelevant against the two major Combo decks?

Second: the point that you need answers from turn 1 on is very wrong. They will combo on turn 2 in less than 10% of the games so you can just ignore that.

If you use E.Tutor package and already runing Ethersworn Canonist and want to improve you MU with Hive Mind - I suggest Sundial of the Infinite as one off.

I can see some Rock players side 1 Badlands and 4 ReB. Looks like a good idea. What you people think? Something like 1 Taiga 4 ReB with 1 Birds already in the maindeck.

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Originally Posted by Fatal

If you use E.Tutor package and already runing Ethersworn Canonist and want to improve you MU with Hive Mind - I suggest Sundial of the Infinite as one off.

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Hey, that's actually an interesting idea. Probably the best hate card at hand for this MU, because let's be honnest : arguing about canonist vs thorn is like comparing a midget to a dwarf.

And yeah, Hive Mind is probably the worst MU there is. 1 slot probably won't change that, and I'm not sure I'm prepared to bloat my SB with junk cards like angel's grace just for that.

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Originally Posted by Maëlig

Hey, that's actually an interesting idea. Probably the best hate card at hand for this MU, because let's be honnest : arguing about canonist vs thorn is like comparing a midget to a dwarf.

And yeah, Hive Mind is probably the worst MU there is. 1 slot probably won't change that, and I'm not sure I'm prepared to bloat my SB with junk cards like angel's grace just for that.

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QFT

I will just accept that hive mind is an ugly matchup and give the opponent a virtual bye, rather then putting borderline playable cards in my side. Instead I will improve all my other match up. So I make sure I win everything else.

It is not borderline playable. It is good. And not only vs. Hive Mind but vs. every non-elf combo deck.

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Originally Posted by Tao

It is not borderline playable. It is good. And not only vs. Hive Mind but vs. every non-elf combo deck.

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Well it doesnt stop Tendrils, Flash Freeze, BSZ and Grindstone, which are involved in 90% of every non-hivemind combo deck.

Brain Freeze (not Flash Freeze, lol) and BSZ are completly irrelevant when discussing this deck in preparation for GP Amsterdam or any other rather large tournament.

Just evaluate your sb choices based on the two important combo matchups: Hive Mind and Storm Combo (ANT, TES, TNT). Painter is a quite different deck and is tackled by QPM, Krosan Grip and Mindcensor, while sufferring splash-damage from dedicated HiveMind+Storm choices.

The one question that stands: Which cards attack both Hive Mind AND Storm Combo while not taking too many sb slots?

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Originally Posted by Julian23

The one question that stands: Which cards attack both Hive Mind AND Storm Combo while not taking too many sb slots?

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I promise I am not trolling but if you ask like this ... Thorn of Amethyst?

Does any of you guys have Hive Mind or any Storm combo deck on MODO so I can run GW against it?

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Originally Posted by Julian23

The one question that stands: Which cards attack both Hive Mind AND Storm Combo while not taking too many sb slots?

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Leyline of Sanctity is better than most people think. It blanks Intuition and Vendillion Clique as well as discard, Tendrils and Grapeshot from storm combo. Leyline + any other hate card puts you in a really good position.

You most likely play Chokes in your sideboard. They help also. TES isn't that dependant on islands, though, but ANT suffers from it.

Thorn of Amethyst is superb against storm, but against Hivemind it isn't too gamebreaking unless you get it going and they need to cantrip into win. It is still one of the better options, though.

While Angel's Grace is super narrow, it can also be used in other matchups than Hivemind. It basically helps you race fast aggro and buys some time against randomness like Burn. That is if you really want to put it in your sb and think you have worse cards to take out.

While angel's grace is probably the best card against hive mind, i would not board it in in any other matchup...
Leyline of sanctity costs u 4 slots in the board, does not help against hive mind itself and is supercrap if you dont have it in play and play a zenith searching for Teeg...
I think Tao is right here, thorn of amethyst sounds like the best hate, cause u can use it in more then 1 matchup...
Personally i wont put any hate into the board against a deck like hive mind... Just dodge this one MU and win the GP just as the German Legacy champs^^

Greetz,
Marius Hausmann

Leyline of Sanctity has an impact at least in the following matchups:
Hivemind + other Intuition decks
Storm
Painter
Burn
Gate and other monoB-variants
Jace control
Aluren

No card does anything to Hivemind itself so I wouldn't use that as an argument against leyline. Also, none of your sb cards are super if you don't have them ready and if you have a Gaddock out against storm, you couldn't be doing much better.

If GW deck traditionally struggles against combo decks and heavy board control, it would make sense to build the sideboard for a large tournament accordingly. My last iteration (I was expecting lots of Hivemind) was:
4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Choke
2 Angel's Grace
+ four other cards to slightly improve the aggro matchups.
So I had 2 cards solely for Hivemind but could board in all of the 11 above cards against it and majority of other combo decks. I was really wanting to handle the bad matchups, as my maindeck is quite well equipped to deal with non-combo decks. Above is one approach.

Leyline of Sanctity is very poor from my testing - its good only vs discard and burn - which arent so bad MU.

Here is answers why its so bad:

Hive Mind - Intuition - same thing doing Aven Mind censor and can attack, and also can be cast on flash.
Storm - its terrible - Storm just cast Ad N grab 20 cards and find bounce for it - not worth - much better are Missteps.

Painter Stone - again terrible - any REB/Blast and you are milled - better removal/Qasali or even Krosans.
Burn - yes its helps a lot
Gate and other - yes also good - but probably SoLS is just better - it wins this card only stops few cards from winning until vindicate (SoLS also) but SoLS can be fetched from SFM, and can be played fast, its not dead slot in late.
Jace Control - really ??? Never heard of Deed ?
Aluren - again terrible - when aluren is online he just fetch harmonic sliver and blow up it - its works only vs discard on early game (most vs therapy) - much better here are Aven MindCensors.


Thorn of Ametyst are much better, but it has good impact of slowing down and also stops few things from winning instantly. Best anti-combo pack is Canonist/Gaddock/Thorn split + Angel's Grace if your meta is infected by Hive Mind.

If you're prepared to play SB hate specifically for this MU (which I'm still not sure about), wouldn't sundial be better than angel's grace, for taking only 1 slot and being re-usable?

Sundial also gets around Vendilion Clique. Still, I don't like it.

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Originally Posted by Fatal

Leyline of Sanctity is very poor from my testing - its good only vs discard and burn - which arent so bad MU.

Here is answers why its so bad:

Hive Mind - Intuition - same thing doing Aven Mind censor and can attack, and also can be cast on flash.
Storm - its terrible - Storm just cast Ad N grab 20 cards and find bounce for it - not worth - much better are Missteps.

Painter Stone - again terrible - any REB/Blast and you are milled - better removal/Qasali or even Krosans.
Burn - yes its helps a lot
Gate and other - yes also good - but probably SoLS is just better - it wins this card only stops few cards from winning until vindicate (SoLS also) but SoLS can be fetched from SFM, and can be played fast, its not dead slot in late.
Jace Control - really ??? Never heard of Deed ?
Aluren - again terrible - when aluren is online he just fetch harmonic sliver and blow up it - its works only vs discard on early game (most vs therapy) - much better here are Aven MindCensors.

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I mentioned some decks that Leyline will have some kind of an impact, with no emphasis on how much it will help you. I also stated that you need another hate card to make it really worthwhile. I even mentioned that this is just one approach to building a sideboard to deal with Hivemind and other combo decks. You reply by writing about the worst case scenarios where that one card does nothing, and your counter-examples are plain stupid as they are affected the exact same things why you dismiss Leyline. Like Pridemages which apparently are immune to blasts, Mindcensors which can be countered and don't come online until turn 2 earliest or Deed, which kills the whole deck anyway, unless you get it by that Pridemage of yours - the same one you just used in the Painter example. Storm can and will bounce any hate card so leyline is no worse than Teeg here. The point is that they need to find that bounce, and meanwhile all their discard is blanked, also. That gives you time to use Wasteland, cast another piece of hate or start clocking them. This is how you usually win those games: disrupt just enough to make your beaters get the time they need to kill.

I'm not into that kind of one-sided debate, as it leads nowhere. I wasn't even trying to tell anyone to play a certain sideboard, I just listed it with some explanations.

Regarding Aluren: they usually have Intuition, Cabal Therapy, Thoughtseize and Parasitic Strix/Fireslinger and you actually say that Leyline is terrible here? I'm fine with Aluren being so rare that this is kind of pointless discussion, but still you should take some time to actually play the matchup before stating such controversial things about it. If they waste a Recruiter just to get rid of your leyline, they most likely delayed themselves enough for you to do something relevant. The whole purpose of hate cards is to buy you some time to turn the tables, and leyline is as good in that as anything, starting from turn zero.

Gaddock Teeg used to be the bomb against any combo, but Hivemind sort of crapped on it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fatal

Leyline of Sanctity is very poor from my testing - its good only vs discard and burn - which arent so bad MU.

Here is answers why its so bad:

Hive Mind - Intuition - same thing doing Aven Mind censor and can attack, and also can be cast on flash.
Storm - its terrible - Storm just cast Ad N grab 20 cards and find bounce for it - not worth - much better are Missteps.

Painter Stone - again terrible - any REB/Blast and you are milled - better removal/Qasali or even Krosans.
Burn - yes its helps a lot
Gate and other - yes also good - but probably SoLS is just better - it wins this card only stops few cards from winning until vindicate (SoLS also) but SoLS can be fetched from SFM, and can be played fast, its not dead slot in late.
Jace Control - really ??? Never heard of Deed ?
Aluren - again terrible - when aluren is online he just fetch harmonic sliver and blow up it - its works only vs discard on early game (most vs therapy) - much better here are Aven MindCensors.

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I mentioned some decks that Leyline will have some kind of an impact, with no emphasis on how much it will help you. I also stated that you need another hate card to make it really worthwhile. I even mentioned that this is just one approach to building a sideboard to deal with Hivemind and other combo decks. You reply by writing about the worst case scenarios where that one card does nothing, and your counter-examples are plain stupid as they are affected the exact same things why you dismiss Leyline. Like Pridemages which apparently are immune to blasts, Mindcensors which can be countered and don't come online until turn 2 earliest or Deed, which kills the whole deck anyway, unless you get it by that Pridemage of yours - the same one you just used in the Painter example. Storm can and will bounce any hate card so leyline is no worse than Teeg here. The point is that they need to find that bounce, and meanwhile all their discard is blanked, also. That gives you time to use Wasteland, cast another piece of hate or start clocking them. This is how you usually win those games: disrupt just enough to make your beaters get the time they need to kill.

I'm not into that kind of one-sided debate, as it leads nowhere. I wasn't even trying to tell anyone to play a certain sideboard, I just listed it with some explanations.

Regarding Aluren: they usually have Intuition, Cabal Therapy, Thoughtseize and Parasitic Strix/Fireslinger and you actually say that Leyline is terrible here? I'm fine with Aluren being so rare that this is kind of pointless discussion, but still you should take some time to actually play the matchup before stating such controversial things about it. If they waste a Recruiter just to get rid of your leyline, they most likely delayed themselves enough for you to do something relevant. The whole purpose of hate cards is to buy you some time to turn the tables, and leyline is as good in that as anything, starting from turn zero.

Gaddock Teeg used to be the bomb against any combo, but Hivemind sort of crapped on it.

Last lists I saw had no Maze of Ith in them.
Why? That card is really a gamewinner!
I also very much miss Elspeth, Knight-Errant in the lists around here.

I went top-8 with Maverick the 14th in Mol (Belgium).
Only loss was because of being mulligan-shy against the mirror.

My list was:
4 Noble Hierach
1 Birds of Paradise
4 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Tarmogoyf
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Stoneforge Mystic /19

4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Mental Misstep
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Body and Mind
1 Sword of Fire and Ice /20

3 Savannah
1 Forest
1 Plains
4 Windswept Heath
3 Wooded Foothills
3 Horizon Canopy
1 Stirring Wildwood
1 Karakas
3 Wasteland
1 Maze of Ith /21

Sideboard:
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Tormod's Crypt
3 Path to Exile
3 Krosan Grip
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Gaddock Teeg
3 Pithing Needle
1 Batterskull /15

Good were:
- Maze of Ith, saved me in a mirror match
- Elspeth, won me a mirror round and a control matchup
- Mental Misstep, won me a game against dredge I should have lost and was otherwise awesome
- Batterskull side instead of main, matchups that I needed them were very rare
- Tarmogoyfs, they were never bad

Bad were:
- Mana base, should be -1 Wildwood, -1 Canopy, +1 Savannah, +1 Forest
- Pithing Needles, didn't use them at all
- Forgot the possibility to put Terravore in my deck, didn't need it, but stupid that I forgot about it anyway
- Sylvan Library, sided them out almost every time

I didn't miss:
- Scryb Ranger, I never wanted to fetch it with Zenith, there were always better options
- Eternal Witness, Zenithing for Knight was always better
- Aven Mindcensor, didn't play combo and I expected to get more use from Elspeths (and I was right :P )
- Mother of Runes, never had a moment where I wanted to play her instead of my current options

I will tweak my list before the next tourney, but main ideas will stay the same.
What do you guys think?