Ban on Brainstorm: Yes or No (Post Snapcaster Mage)

You're missing the point. A real control deck like Landstill, control version of The Rock or The Mighty Quinn has turns to spare. More often than not you just sit there grinding out the game waiting to draw the win condition. In tournaments, this leads to alot of draws. That's there Scrying Sheets comes in for the monocolored nonblue control deck (could also be MBC I guess). The only way you can get a use out of Scrying Sheets is if you get the time to use it and you have a certain amount of Snow cards in your deck. We talked about the time part - this is what Control provides. The Snowcount is only achievable if you run basic snow land - since the snow dual lands are terribad, hence you have to play monocolored.

TL;DR: your point with Death and Taxes is moot. But then again, I guess that's fitting for this thread :wink:

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Originally Posted by Skeggi

You're missing the point. A real control deck like Landstill, control version of The Rock or The Mighty Quinn has turns to spare. More often than not you just sit there grinding out the game waiting to draw the win condition. In tournaments, this leads to alot of draws. That's there Scrying Sheets comes in for the monocolored nonblue control deck (could also be MBC I guess). The only way you can get a use out of Scrying Sheets is if you get the time to use it and you have a certain amount of Snow cards in your deck. We talked about the time part - this is what Control provides. The Snowcount is only achievable if you run basic snow land - since the snow dual lands are terribad, hence you have to play monocolored.

TL;DR: your point with Death and Taxes is moot. But then again, I guess that's fitting for this thread :wink:

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I get what you are saying, but what i was trying to convey was that there are better decks that fill the same roll, whether that roll is a mono colored deck, a pure control deck or both doesn't really matter there are better decks. So the answer to my original question, whether or not scrying sheets is good, is that it is not good enough.

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Originally Posted by TooCloseToTheSun

Are you honestly suggesting that Scrying Sheets is a good card in legacy?

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First of all, yes. Having won a fair number of local tourneys with it I suppose I'm biased.

Second of all, while it may have come off a bit facetious, it was meant to be one mere example.

The format is, simply put, underexplored. That's understandable as it's a massive format and it changes every three months, and people tend to hug tightly to familiar archetypes (I suppose I'm no better, generally speaking.)

But monocolor decks in general? There's plenty of reasons to go that route. Wasteland and Stifle and Blood Moons are a good enough reason to go monocolor if there's no actual compelling reason for a deck to go to another.

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Originally Posted by TooCloseToTheSun

I think that if I was playing a monocolored non-blue control deck I would rather be playing Karakas and Mangara of Corondor.

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I think if I'm playing a control deck I would try to gain reliable card advantage in the late game where the opponent is running out of steam, than try a bunch of cute tricks.

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Originally Posted by TooCloseToTheSun

I get what you are saying, but what i was trying to convey was that there are better decks that fill the same roll, whether that roll is a mono colored deck, a pure control deck or both doesn't really matter there are better decks. So the answer to my original question, whether or not scrying sheets is good, is that it is not good enough.

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This answer doesn't seem to be based on anything at all.

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Originally Posted by TheInfamousBearAssassin

This answer doesn't seem to be based on anything at all.

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I mean I could run the numbers for you based on the last few Star City Games events but I think I can accurately guess that the number of scrying sheets in any of the lists is 0.

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Originally Posted by TooCloseToTheSun

I mean I could run the numbers for you based on the last few Star City Games events but I think I can accurately guess that the number of scrying sheets in any of the lists is 0.

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Aren't Magic players supposed to be math nerds or something? I'm definitely not and I still understand the difference between presence and performance. You could run those numbers but they wouldn't tell us a fucking single goddamn thing.

A deck isn't good because it's played or not, a deck is good because when it's played it performs well relative to the field. By your inexorable logic all good decks must always exist, and any new deck can't be good because it would have had to have been played already.

This is like Zeno's paradox for beginners or something.

Really? Just because something doesn't see play does not make it bad.

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Originally Posted by TheInfamousBearAssassin

Aren't Magic players supposed to be math nerds or something? I'm definitely not and I still understand the difference between presence and performance. You could run those numbers but they wouldn't tell us a fucking single goddamn thing.

A deck isn't good because it's played or not, a deck is good because when it's played it performs well relative to the field. By your inexorable logic all good decks must always exist, and any new deck can't be good because it would have had to have been played already.

This is like Zeno's paradox for beginners or something.

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But its not a new deck it is an established deck that has been around for quite some time, and no one plays it. Sure you could argue that the numbers don't reflect how good something is, all it shows us is what people play. But the fact that it hasn't put up a single result since 09' is kind of telling. Also, were you not the one who started an entire thread on how brainstorm needed to be banned based on the number of them in SCG top 8's? Seems weird that you can use those numbers but I can't.

EDIT:
"hasn't put up a single result since 09'" is a little off, that number was taken from deckcheck.de. On March 12, 2011 was the last top 8 appearance (out of 34 players) that was reported to TCDecks. They do not have a single top 8 for Mighty Quinn recorded in a tournament with over 50 people, and only ONE win ever more than a year ago.

You could also argue that because of the meta shift with Storm Combo decks being less dominant this deck is more eligible again. Because Storm Combo got this deck bad results people stopped playing it. But now the focus is completely on different decks, you could always try decks like this when such a significant meta change has taken place. I guess we could keep going on and on but it's pretty pointless. What are we trying to proof to eachother?

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Originally Posted by TheInfamousBearAssassin

Aren't Magic players supposed to be math nerds or something? I'm definitely not

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Yeah... you have 6000 posts on an internet website dedicated to talking about Magic cards; I think you're a nerd, bro...

Also.. yeah, Scrying Sheets? Build around it and have mild success FTW? I would rather build around stronger cards like Natural Order or Show and Tell or something like that.

If someone says he's not a math nerd he's not saying he's not a nerd.

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Originally Posted by TheInfamousBearAssassin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Efficie...ket_hypothesis

Someday, maybe someone will be able to explain to you that what is played is not materially equivalent to what is good.

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Right, because the only good cards are the ones you hypothetically think are good. Tournament data can't be used in any way to determine if a card/deck is good or not. Nope, tournament data is completely flawed in determining if a card is overpowered or not.

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Originally Posted by Amon Amarth

Really? Just because something doesn't see play does not make it bad.

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Then why doesn't Scrying Sheets see more play? If Scrying Sheets is such a viable card for mono-colored decks, why don't we see more people using it?

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Originally Posted by DragoFireheart

Then why doesn't Scrying Sheets see more play? If Scrying Sheets is such a viable card for mono-colored decks, why don't we see more people using it?

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Probably because mono color decks are less played than 2/3 color decks. And when people do play mono color decks they would usually rather play Wasteland or Mishra's Factory /Mutavault instead of Scrying Sheets, there are only so many slots in a manabase for colorless lands.

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Originally Posted by snappingbowls | ಠ_ಠ

Probably because mono color decks are less played than 2/3 color decks. And when people do play mono color decks they would usually rather play Wasteland or Mishra's Factory /Mutavault instead of Scrying Sheets, there are only so many slots in a manabase for colorless lands.

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Thank you.

Scrying Sheets is not viable because it is crap compared to the alternatives. Just because IBA can win a local tourney with a Mountain Goat doesn't suddenly make it a good card. If anything, the rest of his deck carried Scrying Sheets to the point that any jank land could have done decently.

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Originally Posted by DragoFireheart

Right, because the only good cards are the ones you hypothetically think are good. Tournament data can't be used in any way to determine if a card/deck is good or not. Nope, tournament data is completely flawed in determining if a card is overpowered or not.

Then why doesn't Scrying Sheets see more play? If Scrying Sheets is such a viable card for mono-colored decks, why don't we see more people using it?

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I'm not gonna act like Scrying Sheets is good in a format defined by Wasteland, but on the other side of the coin just because a card isn't played doesn't mean it's not good. It's more that 75% of kids just want to rip a list off SCG top 8 instead of trying anything new.

How many of the people 'contributing' to this thread have actually played a modern version of The Mighty Quinn in the current meta?

I thought this thread was about whether or not Brainstorm should be banned. Seems that is has gone seriously off topic...

I haven't played that deck in this meta... and I haven't really said a single word about your mighty quin deck... I don't think Scrying Sheets is worth being built around because it's slow, only generates colorless mana, sometimes nets you very little cards for all its downsides and obviously dies to Wasteland, which most good decks play.

Winning a local tournament with this proves less than nothing. I win local tournaments with mono red burn and absolute piles made minutes beforehand. Pretty easy to win when you're playing against your backyard.

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Originally Posted by Skeggi

How many of the people 'contributing' to this thread have actually played a modern version of The Mighty Quinn in the current meta?

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I have not played the deck in any capacity in quite some time and the last time I played against was more than a year ago. I was playing allies, because it was hilarious, and absolutely destroyed it. I am not saying that this is evidence that the deck is bad but the fact that I haven't played against it in over a year might be a clue that it is.

Isn't it time to lock this thread yet?

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Originally Posted by Octopusman

Isn't it time to lock this thread yet?

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It isn't time until the amount of retardation spewing from Drago, Snappingbowls, et al. becomes an unstoppable snowball of negative energy that implodes this site and pulls the rest of the internet with it, resulting in a cosmic cataclysm of apocalyptic stupidity.

what in the fuck are you talking about... it's retarded to not play scrying sheets? wow... obviously you had nothing to say about magic but I'm glad you chimed in so we could all see how literate and eloquent you are...

I forgot you're locked in an eternal circle jerk with bear assassin because you love his e-peen and must defend his honor whenever people disagree with his ideas... keep it up bra

what I said about scrying sheets is true... there is not grand, master secret to why it doesn't get played, it's just not good enough?

Full warning for flaming. Your recent posts are intentionally inflammatory, apparently allergic to capital letters and proper punctuation, and make liberal use of the word "bro". Kindly make an effort to improve your posting habits.

Also this thread, as predicted, is closed. -zilla