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You don't have that many lands, so Mox Diamond is not your accelerant of choice. If you go with the splash, Lotus petal(s) and a pair of Plateaus are what you'll need. Otherwise, sub in some Faithless Looting and Goblin Welder for your Bolts and you'll gain more on-color filtering.
The only reason in my mind to splash white is for e-tutor and wear//tear. I like the mono red build to maximize blood moon. I am currently thinking about adding Koth into my list. Thoughts on this updated list.
8 Sol Lands
8 Mountain
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Imperial Recruiter
4 Simian Spirt Guide
4 Painter's Servant
4 Grindstone
4 Blood Moon
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Spellskitte
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Jaya
1 Goblin Welder
4 Lighting Bolt
4 Pyroblast
2 Red Blast
2 Koth (could possibly be Chandra Pyromaster)
Board:
4 E-bridge
3 Pyroclasm
4 Thorn of Amethyist
2 Rachet Bomb
2 Red Elemental Blast
Koth's Ultimate can keep board clear on stalls or simply win. Another possible option is the new red hammer to create dudes. Only problem is the akwardness with e-bridge.
So, how many of us are going with the white splash? Do you guys think it's worth it with Blood Moon being so big of a win-con for us?
Tested the white splash, dropped it. I would say that maybe running only white mana main with the E Tutors in the side might not be a bad plan. You could trade 1 for 1 against the moons when you need to pull them out. But still, that eats up 4 of the 15 sideboard slots and I do not know how valuable that would really be.
Still it would give us speed in the games where we can not lock.
Oh, and welcome.
If you are doing the white splash, I recommend running 4 lotus petal over 4 SSG. You can still run some SSGs if you'd like, just when you blood moon your white away, you'll wish the apes were petals.
I disagree, SSG lets you "FOW" and threaten to FOW. If you need your mana on the table at all times, you lose that element of surprise. Also if you have top in play, tapping it and grabbing a Guide at instant speed can save your life.
Well when you have a dead card in your hand when you have a blood moon (e. tutor or and white thing you splashed) you'll wish you did, but that's my opinion of white splash, can play however you want.
This is why I strongly believe that Moon and Tutor should not both be in the main together.
I may test a build with Tutor in the side. Will have a shot at it next week.
Played in a Legacy GPT for GP DC today at Squabbles in MD.
I went 4-1 and was 1st going into Top 8... Where I ran into the Mirror Match (Except he had the Koth Package) I punted game 3 after 30 odd min of hay-makers from both sides. So... =( But still good experience overall.
Some of the Details are a little fuzzy, so don't expect anything extremely detailed.
Round 1 (2-1)- Punishing Jund.
Game 1 - I'm on the play but I don't have a blood moon hand and he answers all my threats. Eventually he ginds me out with punishing fire after getting one or two blood moons out of my hand or countered.
Game 2 - Turn 1 Blood Moon = Concession
Game 3 - I get a Grindstone down turn 1, he never deals with it, and I eventually get a Painter into play that he can't answer. He seemed a little tilted after the Blood Mooning.
1-0 and out of the woods or so I thought.
Round 2 (2-0) - Red Aggro Brew... (This guy top eighted, but I don't think he made it far)
Game 1 - I was on the play, and took a lot of beats until I manged to stick a painter and get down to 2 life. Top Deck = Grindstone and I win on the spot. (Relief)
Game 2 - I side in Ensnaring Bridge and resolve one quickly and get my hand gone... Eventually he Chaos Warped the Bridge, but I had a second in Hand and then it was only a matter of time.
2-0
Round 3 (2-1) - U/W Counter Top
Game 1 - I'm on the draw, the game goes awhile, eventually he overwhelms me with Angels. =(
Game 2 - Goes long but I got there, while going a little long 14 min for game 3. I end up grinding him out after playing Ensnaring Bridge. (This card does work.)
Game 3 - He mulligan, I had a fast grind and I won in 3 turns or so...
3-0 (Really happy at this point, then I get paired down with an 3-0-1 who can't draw in...)
Round 4 (0-2) - Shardless BUG.
So happy to see it's Shardless BUG... but then, things take an turn.
Game 1 - I kept an reasonable hand but not one with blood moon, he has the counter when I try to turn 3 the Moon I naturally draw... and well it just goes down hill from there.
Game 2 - Mulliganed an Nolanader, Mulliganed an 3 blast 2 Land SSG hand, Kept a hand with Turn 1 blood Moon. He has the FoW, and a early Goyf. (Not how this is suposed to go...)
3-1 (Should be a lock for Top 8... but then...)
Round 4 (2-0) - So I can Tie Break in because I'm the highest 3-1 and there are not enough people who can jump me... but my opponent isn't so luck, as he's an 3-1-1
Game 1 - I don't know what he's playing so I keep a reasonable hand with two blasts in it... Turn's out he's playing Splinter Twin Legacy Version. I blast his combo and fetch Jaya who when active will always keep him from going off. Ended up attacking with SSG for the win...
Game 2 - Fully Loaded on Blasts, take out Blood Moon, throw in Manic Vandal and another Magus (for the beats) and proceeded to make sure slow roll my blasts... eventually fetch Jaya again, and basically lock the game until I either attacked in for the win or won via Grindstone.
4-1 (12 Points puts me in First of the Top 8)
Quarter Finals.
Loss (1-2) Imperial Painter Mirror Match X_X of all the things!
Game 1 - I take when my opponent plays an Painter turn 3 while I have Gindstone in Play... (It happens, I did the same thing first time I played this mirror)
Game 2 - Koth shows up to the party and I lose to the mana ability allowing both GS and Painter to happen on the same turn.
Game 3 - This game goes a long long time. Back and forth, 4 revokers, Two welders. I thought I had him when I welded out his revoker, we got back and forth. I never find a GS. He finds 2, but they are revoked by me. I draw Spellskite and say go before I realize what I have done... and he blasts my Revoker next turn after playing Painter. =(
So Yeah I threw it away. =( The goal was learning for me though, as this was only the 3rd event I piloted this deck in.
Thanks man. I'm quite new to Legacy and Imperial Painter, so I'm trying to get to know the deck as well as I can.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dice_Box
Played at GP Antwerp in the Legacy Championship with IP yesterday.
9 mountain
4 bloodstained mire
4 ancient tomb
4 city of traitors
4 SSG
4 painter
4 grindstone
3 SDT
2 koth
4 imperial recruiter
4 blood moon
2 magus of the moon
1 jaya
2 phyrexian revoker
4 pyroblast
2 REB
3 lightning bolt
---------------
4 thorn of amethyst
3 pyroclasm
3 ensnaring bridge
2 phyrexian revoker
1 red elemental blast
2 mindbreak trap
r1- Death and Taxes 1-2
r2- Cephalid Breakfast 2-1
r3- Merfolk 2-0
r4- ANT 2-1
r5- RUG 2-1
r6- IP 2-0
r7- Cloudpost 2-1
r8- TES 2-0
Got 2nd into top8 and we split prizes.
I think the maindeck was quite solid. The koth was pretty good as it won me a game against Cloudpost,DxT and the mirror. Its also a nice alternate wincon under a bridge. I focussed my sb a bit more against combo as I expected a fair amount of them. I didnt get to use the mindbreak traps, but I played them over GYhate as I didnt think there would be alot of Reanimator/Ichorid,which was correct. There should be a Manic Vandal in the sb but I didn't find one in time so I just played another REB. The quad revoker were really good. I boarded #3/4 in against all my MU's except for RUG ofc. They were mainly there for LED,Sneak Attack and Griselbrand but they have alot of play,def MVP yesterday.
Greetings,
Johan-
I think some of the views on the white splash are just flat out wrong. The card disadvantage is a moot point is you are winning under a moon. To be honest looking at card advantage is the traditional view is very antiquated and flat out wrong for legacy. Tempo and quality are better than card advantage all the time basically anymore. As such it allows you to win games you never would be able to. And I have hardly had those 3 E tutor kill me because they weren't a lightning bolt. I really think it takes more skill and practice but it gives the deck more versatility without diluting the overall plan and it makes the deck more consistent. And it allows you to play Rest in Peace and Peace Keeper.
Seth
How has Koth been? In my most updated list I am testing with 2 Koths main deck and thinking about changing numbers to cut a welder and a mountain from my list this weekend. Let me know your thoughts.
First Congratulations.Quote:
Originally Posted by rancOr_
I have a few questions about your list though, it seems like you were banking on not having to fight though much disruption or removal since you cut Goblin Welder and Spellskite. Did you ever miss them?
Quote:
Originally Posted by sroncor1
Well said. Who cares if you go down a card but it wins the game the following turn. They can't thoughtseize the top of your deck. Plus I just like the space it gives my sideboard. Previously I had a hard time squeezing in everything I wanted. Yes, you will sometimes lay a moon and draw a tutor. The pros far outweigh the cons in my opinion after trying e tutor out.
Also, Koth seems much better than the new Chandra popping up in recent lists. Koth straight up wins under a bridge and the mana ramping of the first and 2nd abilities help smooth out some of the red mana constraints the deck can have. Chandra's ultimate will copy a blast or a bolt. My opinion is that you need to have a ton of blockers clogging the board or a dedicated bridge/instant-sorcery build for her so that certainly warrants some testing.
I will say the sweet black pimp version is kinda cool.
Lastly, I am a big fan of value-stoning and filling my yard for when I get a Welder out eventually. So firebolt is a natural inclusion. Regarding sweeping vs single target: sweeping is a really nice option, I just like my removal to be cmc=1.
On the topic of Chandra, Pyromaster vs. Koth of the Hammer (Is there a way to link these cards other then individually searching and hyper-linking them)Quote:
Originally Posted by Kap'n Cook
The reason some people pick Chandra, Pyromaster has nothing to do with the Ultimate, and entirely to do with the 0 Ability. (Think of her as a 4 mana Red one sided Howling Mine with other abilities which are less relevant). I still think having access to another card which closes out games isn't bad so I like Koth of the Hammer a little more but, honestly I think they fill a completely different game plans.
You do [cards ]koth of the hammer[/cards ] without the spaces
koth of the hammer
chandra, pyromaster
I have played both welder and/or spellskite in the past. I like to play this deck controlish with tops/koths/and almost always get painter with recruiter and try to play it with atleast one backup reb. Obviously u can't counter abrupt decay but those decks are pretty weak to moon effects already. But truth be told u almost never get them with Imperial Recruiter. Koth on the other hand (taking those slots) is a great wincondition and has amazing synergy with this deck. I won some games where I would have lost had it been a welder/spellskite. Also won two games with the -2ability although thats rare. And if you ever get the emblem online like under a bridge thats game.. I also dont get why some list run the chandra while Koth is much better in this deck. So basically I switched welder for Koth and have never looked back. GreetingsQuote:
Originally Posted by GundamGuy
I like your 75 rancor, gonna try it this weekend at the LGS
because there are always some players just copying the previous decklistQuote:
Originally Posted by rancOr_