It just messes with the combo setup, but it doesn't hinder e.g. ANT and TES from going off.Quote:
Originally Posted by clavio
Printable View
It just messes with the combo setup, but it doesn't hinder e.g. ANT and TES from going off.Quote:
Originally Posted by clavio
Ir belcher thoughtQuote:
Originally Posted by H3llsp4wn
R n D loves to make new hate bears.
nothing worse then any other hater. you learn to play around it. reason the deck runs counters and bouncy spells.
Maverick/junk/taxes/Zew are the types of decks that will play it. Not many decks can run it, due to them also running draw spells.
for the first few events, every one will try and cram new cards in decks, they always do. We just need to wait and are where the decks settle.
Yes as per the usual, in the tournament section of the forums of course. I'm actually on to write that out right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by ScatmanX
-edit- report in http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...087#post784087
Hello !
I play a standard list but i recently took my 2 md meditate out for 1 Sensei DT and 1 USZ. I don t really like USZ MD because it s not always good post spiral (if i went off with 3 lands, i prefer having meditate or Top). So i m thinking about replacing it with a second top or meditate. But a second top is not that great when you draw it post TS and when you already have it in play. What s your opinion on this matter ?
EDIT : I actually find 1 Meditate MD necessary. Can be fetched with scroll when needed. I can't run tolarian wind instead (this is essentially a sb card).
I d also like to talk about the sideboard. Here is mine :
Toolbox
Kill : 1 Brainfreeze, (1 USZ if not MD), 1 Rebuild, used to kill with Candelabra.
Draw : 1 Intuition (Pre TS), 1 Tolarian Wind (Post TS - better than meditate imo)
Defense : 1 Pact, 1 Bounce Split Second
Untap : 1 Turnabout
Vs Dredge & co : 1 Ravenous Trap
Meta Cards
Dredge & Co : 2 Grafdigger s cage, 1 Surgical Ext
Aditional MD defense
1 Bounce Split Second (don t have it MD)
2 Swan Song (Sneak Show beeing the main Target)
And I play 8 Defense Spells MD (not counting Turnabout) : 4 FoW, 1 Pact, 3 Flusterstorm.
What do you think about my sideboard ? Am I missing something ?
Sometimes I see sideboards with 2 Snap and 2 other bounces. Why so much hate :) ? In my opinion, defense grid is overdoing it and doesn t help vs sneak and show. More than 1 Pact of Negation in the SB is not very useful - when you already play 1 MD like i do- (used against non combo decks most of the time), i prefer running swan song, more polyvalent.
Thanks !
Thanks. Back when I played this deck a lot I never maindecked the Zenith, although I think I did play a Pact a lot of the time. The Zenith was an experiment which I will dispense with, I like to mess around with this deck to see if I can decrease fizzle chance post-Spiral. I may switch out the Pact as well, although I enjoy having it as a Scroll target because there is an absurd amount of tempo in my meta. I think I might test Leyline as well, although that might jeopardize my Defense Grid slots, and that card is insane.Quote:
Originally Posted by feline
I just dropped USZ for preordain #4 and it seems good. I like manideck meditate as well, I'm rolling 1/1 right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by JosephK
As far as the sideboard goes, I find that I never have enough slots to run all the stuff I want to run. That said I dropped all the anti dredge crap and never missed it. Tolarian Winds sounds awesome.
Thank you for your feedback clavio ! I'm now convinced that 1 Meditate, 1 Sensei are the best choices. I don't have room for a 4th preordain right now but i will think about it.
Concerning the sideboard, i have the same opinion. It always comes to the same dilemma :
I run the classic stuff and then i have to choose between :
. The Dredge Package
. The Leylines
. Defense grids
In a GP format, if i don't have byes, i think the safest choice is the first one. Leylines are great vs Jund but will you take them in vs a Tempo bug ? (I mean a deck that can have half discard half counterspell cards) Counterspells are also good vs discard. So if you need to counter early spells, more counterspells G2 may be decent. I think that leylines are too specific in match ups that are not especially bad (did i forget something ?). As for Defense grids, do we really need them ? To the point you can forget about dredge and reanim ?
Looks like I'm snowed in, travel plans cancelled for Baltimore today, so I'll have to look to Nashville now in 2 weeks, going to be a long 2 weeks. If you're playing / played High Tide at Baltimore, best of luck!
I went 5-4 at SCG Baltimore. My list was the same as my providence list (few pages back) except for -1scalding tarn -1Blue Sun's Zenith, +1Misty Rain forest +1Preordain. I beat UStax, Miracles, Dredge, Team America and Death and Taxes. I lost to Reanimator, Sneak/Show, and UWR Delver twice, including a very ugly 0-2 in round 9. My round one delver opponent had a very different sideboard plan than my round nine opponent. I probably won't be able to play for a month or so, but I'll be watching to see if Spirit of the Labyrinth really does affect the format the way people are predicting.
Grats on the winning record finish! In my opinion I feel Thalia is more annoying than the 3/1 can't draw more than 1 turn, because bouncing Thalia costs +1 ha ha. That's just me though.
Top-4'd my local with this list:
2 Preordain
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Merchant Scroll
3 Cunning Wish
1 Meditate
2 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Candelabra of Tawnos
2 Turnabout
4 High Tide
4 Time Spiral
3 Flusterstorm
4 Force of Will
1 Snap
1 Wipe Away
3 Polluted Delta
1 Flooded Strand
1 Misty Rainforest
2 Scalding Tarn
11 Island
Sideboard
3 Defense Grid
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Pact of Negation
1 Brain Freeze
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Echoing Truth
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Rebuild
1 Blue Sun's Zenith
1 Turnabout
I went 3-0-1, beating white weenie (not DnT, a casual brew), U/R Delver, and BUG Delver/Team America. I managed to draw against Miracles due to his slow clock (surprised I even won game one, that matchup is awful). The win against BUG was also incredibly close and involved some serious luck after I misplayed horribly during my combo turn in one game.
I ended the maindeck Zenith experiment and didn't really miss it. I did however miss the maindeck Pact very much. Having a zero-mana counterspell to scroll for is invaluable against tempo because sometimes you just don't have the mana to cast Flusterstorm. Leyline was nice in theory but needs more testing. I only sided it in (and got it into play) once, and I actually lost that game as I bricked horribly on draws (kept Spiral, Wish, Leyline, Candle, 3 lands and drew Leyline, Candle, Candle in that order). My BUG Delver opponent also did not draw Hymn that game, but he did draw a ton of dudes for a fast clock. I never drew Defense Grid either, but that card has earned its slot from previous testing in several different combo decks - it is IMO our best answer to RUG Delver and other non-black tempo strategies. The maindeck Snap was good and I didn't miss the third Turnabout as a result (thanks Feline for that).
I like that you mention Defense Grid. I was going with leyline of sanctity, but now I'm going with defense grid instead, decided a couple days ago after I first realized, I own grids, I have to buy leylines.
You must be the most well-traveled SCG player from the West Coast! Good luck and represent us well!Quote:
Originally Posted by feline
I never really thought about that ha ha, thank you. It all depends on money and stuff though, etc etc etc, but trying to do this as much as possibleQuote:
Originally Posted by lordofthepit
Today I was thinking about the deck and I realized that I almost never go Wish->Pact in response to a spell I want to counter. Is that normal? I feel like it should come up more often than it has for me. There have been times that I've gone Wish->Pact during my setup phase, but almost never during my combo turn.
That is common it seems. Sometimes I will Time Spiral and purposely hold a Cunning Wish when I am at the point of having to spiral again, and instead of using the wish to get a counterspell, I just hold it and if they counter, if I need a counter at that point I'll use it and get a counter, or save the wish, since it's a 1 time use as it removes itself from the game.
On a side note, I'm doing a sideboard overhaul. Right now the cards I just can't cut from the sideboard no matter how I go back and forth about it are:
Blue Sun's Zenith
Brain Freeze
Intuition
Turnabout
Rebuild
Wipe Away
Flusterstorm
Pact of Negation
I am fencing on Meditate because there's one in the main deck and if I can't wish > intuition > spiral because I don't have the mana, then I'd rather scroll -vs- wishing for a meditate since scroll costs 1 less. Though it's tough because with the least amount of mana, I have to net Meditate & then use a cantrip afterwards to basically, get the best 5 of 7, middle ground it's intuition > spirals, and at the other extreme of having lots of mana, it's Blue Sun's Zenith myself for a bunch of cards, or them for even more cards for the kill.
I've cut snap from the sideboard because I only really have snap for hatebears, so I just have the 1 in the maindeck for now & if I need to deal with an at the end of their turn bounce one hatebear, while then bouncing another on my turn, I can wish for Wipe Away, then use snap when starting the first high tide.
I've cut Surgical Extraction because I almost always want to wish for a counter to prevent whatever it is they have that's annoying from hitting the graveyard, or from being reanimated in the first place, Iona for example. Extraction is nice against recurring spells like dredging something back to their hand every turn or something with retrace, but that so very rarely comes up for me that I'm at this point comfortable cutting it for now.
I've cut the Grafdigger's Cages because I bring them in more against Elves than graveyard strategies (Natural Order/Green Sun's Zenith/Flashing back Cabal Therapy when it's BG elves) because I so rarely go against reanimator/dredge. As well against Reanimator I have 4 Flusterstorms which really help against the faster combo decks.
I've since brought in Defense Grid and I like the fact that I can cast it not on the combo turn, and it can draw out a counter spell, which is something I really like against the tempo delver type strategies. It's riskier but even against Show and Tell, if one resolves, I can put one into play and if they just show and tell a big creature and pass the turn for 1 more turn, I can potentially combo out with my next turn and they're likely tapped out at that point, while I have a defense grid working for me, though obviously against some setups that's bad because they can use the grid against me as well when it's their turn. In either case I'm liking Defense Grid enough to be running them again. Still have 2 Pact of negation's so I can main 1 & side 1 for games 2 / 3 against some decks. But one thing I actually don't like about Pact is that I can't use it early on before the combo turn, unless I have 5 mana available for the next upkeep. I've almost come to the point of considering, with having defense grid in the sideboard, to go down to 1 pact of negation, and just have it as a wish target, since games 2 / 3 I am bringing in defense grids anyhow.
The other card I'm considering is in part to Johnathan Thatch who actually did this back in 2012 in his high tide sideboard, as well as Dan Musser who suggested it when I played against him, which is Leyline of Sanctity. Though I would bring them in a lot less than I would Defense Grids, I've actually considered if it's possible to go down enough on the lesser used sideboard cards, and instead bring in both defense grids & Leyline of sanctity's. The thing I don't like about Leyline though is that it's complete dead weight if you don't start off with one in play. But one could make the argument that if you don't even get to combo off because your opponent is throwing so much discard at you, then you're not even spiraling in the first place.
Basically right now I'm sold enough on defense grid's to be running them again, but Leyline of sanctity is a harder sell, though I am considering them as well.
I think that you need a post spiral draw in your SB, especially if you take cards like defense grids/leyline Game 2, just to make sure you don't fizzle. If you don't have scroll and only wish, and a bad hand (this more lilely to happen G2 if you take in leylines/grids), you're stuck. If you're planning to take Grids in your SB, I would suggest Tolarian Winds, instead of meditate (easy to see why).Quote:
Originally Posted by feline
Another thing I see in your SB is flusterstorm. I don't play the same MD list as you : I run 3 MD turnabout and 3 MD fluster. It's easier to play around fluster then.. And I don't think I need a fluster as a wish target to counter that.
I support your opinion concerning leylines. Counterspells are better. :)
Getting on camera! Best of luck (:
Congrats on the finish Feline! It is always a joy to watch you play, you need to share the tech on the one handed Ponders!