Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Played weekly local:
Creatures (23)
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Reality Smasher
3 Eldrazi Displacer
3 Endless One
3 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Endbringer
Spells (13)
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Mox Diamond
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Warping Wail
2 Trinisphere
Lands (24)
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Wasteland
3 Cavern of Souls
2 Plains
1 Karakas
SB
4 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Phyrexian Metamorph
3 Rest in Peace
2 Dismember
1 Warping Wail
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Warping Wail
1 Ratchet Bomb
ound 1: Grixis delver
g1 - my play was just horrendous, it is first game ever with the deck - no other excuse ... apart playing mostly blue
g2 - won back of cotv on 1, rest was just quick
g3 - lost due to bad draws, land flood - sigh brainstorms and ponders
Played one more game, off tournament, just out of curiosity and won.
Round 2: Burn
g1 - cotv on 1, was back breaking for burn player
g2 - same as g1
We managed to play 3 more games, as it was quick. Smash to Smithereens is very bad news for us, lost 2 out of those 3 games.
Round 3: Esper blade
g1 - Cotv on 1, just disabled his deck completely
g2 - Sequence cotv on 1, he goes sfm to find Jitte, Thought-Knot Seer showed Batterskull and Revoker on Jitte sealed the deal.
Round 4: NicFit
g1 - Veteran Explorer without Warping Wail is hard to beat, also made misplay of not playing Mox into his Pernicous Deed and fetching at least some dude
g2 - saw only 2 dudes and the rest were just lands whole game.....
Also played two more games, one which I won quickly even by eldrazi standards, second was won as well, but it was more of a luck and his misplay.
Next time I am going to remove
MD:
-1 Ratchet Bomb
+1 SoFi
SB:
not yet sure, played to few games... thinking about switching Trinispheres MD with Thorn of Amethyst, but Trini is good even against creature decks. Also All is Dust is an option worth to explore in this setup.
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
After my first UW sketch was destroy from Aggro Loam two days ago (Waste into Loam into Knight is so hard....note: I not see any RiPs in a couple of games) i reworked some slots and was ready for some hours of test games yesterday:
Matchups:
- UB Tezzerator 2:1
- ANT 2:1
- ANT 1:2
- Pox 2:0
- Rb Goblins 2:0
- BUG Delver 2:0
- BUG Delver 1:2
Overall 6:2 which was ok for the first run. I used Wastelands (with Crucible Main), played with 1 Rasputin (combo once vs stalled field against Tezzerator, countered another game and boarded out most of the time), i also used All is Dust (Nice Thopter Army) and Ulamog against the grindy Games vs Tezz (faced: Bridge, Torpor Orb and Cursed Totem - all together! :laugh:).
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hofzge
What do you guys think on the discussion between white, UW and GW?
I love both double colored versions as they have plans for any game involving a non-combo opponent - I think white is necessary as it shores up all bad matchups (Lands, Show and Tell & Reanimator). As for the second color - Green seems good; blue might be good -> has anyone actually tested blue until now?
Blue is probably better against creatures, as you have tons of blockers and flying blockers and can blink them. Also you have a lot of colorless mana in the scions, which makes you less susceptible against Blood Moon. Drowner and Displacer are great in the mirror.
Green can handle most permanents and has thus is probably better against Miracles. World Breaker and Displacer are again great in the mirror.
Neither World Breaker, nor Drowner will greatly change the Lands matchup, as when you get to that much mana you are usually well off (World Breaker handles Maze of Ith and Skyspawner can block Marit Lage FWIW).
For me the core of both decks is very similar.
:wg: Maindeck offers you:
- World Breaker (overall a great Eldrazi)
- Conduit of Ruin (as a tutor)
- All is Dust (bonkers if you can cast it)
- Mishra's Factory (always a nice tool)
:wu: Maindeck offers you:
- Eldrazi Skyspawner (don't underestimate it)
- Drowner of Hope (immediately impact the field, a "hasty" Endbringer in some situations)
- Rasputin Dreamweaver (Combo backup)
- Wasteland or City of Traitors (aggressive game plan)
Side can be the same, it mostly contains :w: stuff. The GW Deck has a slightly higher curve and can be played as a control deck (besides the early Seer into Smasher starts), best card for this game plan is All is Dust, it clears the field and most fair decks can't win after it. Mishra and Displacer work as a good defense to reach the mid-late game to overwhelm the opponent.
The UW Deck can be played way more aggressively, because it can use Mox with Wasteland or City (both will not work unless you dont care about your manabase) and with Skyspawner you have an aggressive, evasive Beater. Both Skyspawner and Drowner work very well with Displacer, so you can always sink your mana. Compared to the "Kill them All" Spell from GW (All is Dust) UW uses more creatures and synergies to interact with the battlefield. This will need more micromanagement but will also work with only a few mana resources. If the build contains the Dreamweaver-Combo you are able to win some stalled boards or lock pieces.
Compared to colorless Eldrazi both builds offers your better solutions vs problematic situations. That will matter, if most players know how Eldrazi work and we see more "Eldrazi Hate" and it will be harder to smash the resistance. I mentioned "lock pieces": if you skim through other Deck Threads, you will see that some players try to find solutions for Eldrazi. Most of the time that will be lock pieces like Ensnaring Bridge, Moat, Humility, Blood Moon someone even mentioned Peackeeper. So you should be prepared for any "random hate" if you (like me) won't lose against this stuff. GW and UW offers solutions (if you also mind your Sideboard) for every single "Hate" you will face.
In my opinion both build are superior to the colorless builds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
zyren
Why not go both? I posted a decklist on p24 that is WUG. After doing some playtesting, i found it was pretty strong. I never really had any mana problems as i have 12+ t1 sources (+ talismans) for each color. Skyspawner is a lot stronger than i thought he would be. The tokens also turned out way more useful than i thought they would be. They really helped ramp up to casting drowner or world breaker 1-2 turns earlier. Especially if you have displacer out and you flicker skyspawner eot with spare mana to get more of them. One move i really like: block with skyspawner and a token. sac the token to help pay for displacer flicker and flicker skyspawner. skyspawner and the token come back and you blocked 2 creatures. Now that i've played with skyspawner i dont want to remove the blue splash.
@barook: you asked me if i thought ditching factories was worth the blue splash: i think it is. I think the utility you get from skyspawner alone (being able to block flyers, creating more chump blockers, ramp for larger guys) is worth ditching factories.
Yes i can think you can combine both. At my first UW sketch i see 3 flex slots (2 Metamorph, 1 Rasputin), so it should be able to also include World Breaker if it is needed. World Breaker itself is good because he will be profit from Eldrazi Lands, can be tutored and comes with a nice body, but you will not "instant" win with him like Rasputin. I lost one game vs ANT against Empty the Warrens. I had Displacer on the field and my only out (and that is the funny part of the story) for the following 2 Draw Steps was: Rasputin - i not draw him and died to the Token Army.
Since i cut 1 Metamorph for Crucible i can now trim the other Metamorph (but this card works well with Displacer!) or the random Rasputin for World Breaker - i don't know if this is right. Have to play more games to figure out the right direction. As i mentioned above - you will need ways to win against some Hate pieces.
@Skyspawner: Zyren is right about it!- Yes, card works well. I like it with Jitte and as a Blocker for Delver etc. I also noted that (thanks to the token) you can get some very aggressive plays if you also have Eye of Ugin in play. Team up well with Displacer, so you get 8 Eldrazi for T1-2 plays that will do more than "stupid" Beaters like Mimic/Endless One.
------
Speaking of "Hate" had anyone considered the "Modern Idea": Worship? I think you can ramp it out early enough, since it is not easy to kill Seer/Smasher it can work against some decks (including the mirror :tongue:) - it will also be an answer against something like Price of Progress.
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
WinterN
Give
Mind Stone a try. I tested in a store tournament and liked it. It works like Talismans in Wx versions but you can cycle it in late game.
Interesting idea. I think that if you are going to play 4 LotV main deck, you really should play at least 1 or 2 Helms.
On a second thought I'm inclined to agree, mainly because the list runs serum powder.
Perhaps
-1 World Breaker
-1 Dismember
+2 Helm of Obedience
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
I took the same 75 I played on Sunday to a local event. I opened with an 0-2 loss to Lands, but finished with a 2-0 win over Lands and a 2-0 win over Shardless (final record 2-1), which are supposed to be our most difficult non-Blood Moon matchups. I used the store credit I won to buy into Eldrazi Displacer, but after last night's results I don't think we'll need it until the Eldrazi start to show up in much greater numbers - at which point we will probably move to a colored build, just like how in Modern the colored build beats the colorless builds.
I think in our current colorless build, nailing down our sideboard plan and finding the correct angle of attack against these decks is what will propel us to success. Fortunately, at least for now, most players are still figuring out how to attack us, so we're advantaged there.
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quick question, there is a lot of uproar about the awesomeness of this deck. All I see is another version of mud / stompy. Why is this better? Slightly more consistency?
There doesn't appear to be a "combo" so it's considered a "fair" deck. It gets wrecks by blood moon / back to basics / wasteland / tempo.
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
apple713
Quick question, there is a lot of uproar about the awesomeness of this deck. All I see is another version of mud / stompy. Why is this better? Slightly more consistency?
There doesn't appear to be a "combo" so it's considered a "fair" deck. It gets wrecks by blood moon / back to basics / wasteland / tempo.
The main appeal is added consistency and disruptive capabilities. Tempo was a breeze for me. Cavern of Souls + chalice of the void + TKS handles is why the deck is good imo. Blood Moon is not really an issue imo. It shuts off a part of the deck, but there are plenty of ways to solve that issue. Even back to basics can be ignored because eye of ugin doesn't tap, so all you need is 2 mana to cast a big threat and try to ride that to victory. Or just wait until you can drop a world breaker on back to basics.
Wasteland and Rishadan Port are difficult to answer though
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bruizar
The main appeal is added consistency and disruptive capabilities. Tempo was a breeze for me. Cavern of Souls + chalice of the void + TKS handles is why the deck is good imo. Blood Moon is not really an issue imo. It shuts off a part of the deck, but there are plenty of ways to solve that issue. Even back to basics can be ignored because eye of ugin doesn't tap, so all you need is 2 mana to cast a big threat and try to ride that to victory. Or just wait until you can drop a world breaker on back to basics.
Wasteland and Rishadan Port are difficult to answer though
ok so in terms of power level where does the deck lie? Do you think its REALLY good? or maybe its performing better than it should because of the surprise factor?
The reason i'm asking you is because I know you've brewed other decks in legacy and you could give some accurate feedback as to whether this is the next big thing or just another contender...
If it is such a big thing, is it pushing other decks out of the format? and which decks?
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bruizar
Wasteland and Rishadan Port are difficult to answer though
Blue splash could theoretically run Teferi's Response in the board. Not saying that it's good, just food for thought.
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Barook
Blue splash could theoretically run
Teferi's Response in the board. Not saying that it's good, just food for thought.
White splash could run Sacred Ground which I think is a card people forget exists.
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Delvis
White splash could run
Sacred Ground which I think is a card people forget exists.
I certainly didn't forget it, but Sacred Ground can't deal with Port. Having good ways to keep mana denial in check would be great, but there doesn't seem to be a good "catch-all" solution.
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
apple713
Quick question, there is a lot of uproar about the awesomeness of this deck. All I see is another version of mud / stompy. Why is this better? Slightly more consistency?
There doesn't appear to be a "combo" so it's considered a "fair" deck. It gets wrecks by blood moon / back to basics / wasteland / tempo.
Blood Moon doesn't see significant play. If it started to see play, the deck has outs in the form of Warping Wail and mana rocks. In addition, unless they're dropping it turn 1, we generally have a window to cast Thought-Knot Seer and take it.
Back to Basics could be a problem, but is less of an issue than Blood Moon because you are able to play Sol lands from your hand, and you don't have to tap Eye of Ugin.
Wasteland is a problem, but you'd be surprised. Since you have so many Sol lands, you're able to recover from a light Wasteland package with relative ease. Wasteland recursion is the real problem, but sideboard cards can help with that (we use Surgical Extraction). Cards like Thorn and Trinisphere also have a roundabout way of fighting Wastelands: sometimes they need the mana more than the disruption. This happened to my Shardless opponent last night.
Tempo is not really an issue. I suppose the matchup is draw-dependent to a certain extent, but cards like Trinisphere, Thorn of Amethyst, and Chalice are huge problems for the tempo deck. We play 4 Cavern of Souls so we don't have to worry about Daze or Force, and it works fairly well.
There are matchups on paper that look really bad for this deck, but in actuality, they just aren't that bad.
Why is it better than MUD? It's faster. A lot faster. MUD is still a good deck, and has a better top end. I just prefer a more aggressive, stompy-style strategy.
@Barook, I didn't mean to imply you had forgotten about it. I just meant I think people in general do. I guess there's not a lot of white decks that worry about Wasteland, though.
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
apple713
ok so in terms of power level where does the deck lie? Do you think its REALLY good? or maybe its performing better than it should because of the surprise factor?
The reason i'm asking you is because I know you've brewed other decks in legacy and you could give some accurate feedback as to whether this is the next big thing or just another contender...
If it is such a big thing, is it pushing other decks out of the format? and which decks?
I thought the deck mulliganed terrible but it may have been my bad luck. It didn't feel unfair except against burn where i drew really crazy. Even though the deck did not impress me greatly, the fact remains that I did beat everything besides goblins (drew against intentional staller but he was on 1 life facing 9 damage without board or hand after all is dust so id count that as a win.)
Right now I like the colorless build most because it feels very optimized. The colored lists are still all over the place imo.
That said Im very curious to see how far i can take the processor build as i think serum powder is really good in theory. Mud has more explosive broken plays, but eldrazi doesnt die to itself as much
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Three 5-0 stompy decks on MTGO today, and they're all running 1-2 Crystal Vein. Anyone have comments about this card?
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
@bruizar, I see you talking about Serum Powder with Processors. I just want to make sure, but, you know the Processors have to process your opponent's cards, right?
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Delvis
@bruizar, I see you talking about Serum Powder with Processors. I just want to make sure, but, you know the Processors have to process your opponent's cards, right?
Yes, this should work with Leyline of the Void. It would be amazing if you could processor your own Serum Powdered hand, but I know that doesn't work and wasn't what I was thinking :-). still possible in the mirror though? lol :X Serum Powder is there for a number of reasons one of which is to find leyline of the void (and sanctity from the board). Not that you should mulligan to 1 for a leyline, but if you do there is a 96% chance of hitting an opening leyline of the void. That means a single fetch will turn on Wasteland Stranglers and a second one will turn on all Blight Herders.
I already wanted to replace Mox Diamond for Serum Powder, because from my years of experience with Mox Diamond, the only deck that can support it is lands. Otherwise it just always sucked for me. Stompy decks have a hard time dealing with their own consistency, so a Serum Powder plus a very redundant list helps give you more consistent hands so that you avoid losing from yourself. Additionally, Serum Powder provides an out against Blood Moon during stalled games. When you go for Serum Powder, Leyline of the Void + Processors becomes a logical conclusion that I want to try out (Want to reiterate that I don't know if its good enough). The Modern processor decks rely on relic + scrabbling claws but I think we should be using a non-decayable, uncounterable and free version in legacy (and modern for that matter).
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
I love my Mishra's Factories, but I wonder about the following:
Could the GW list be tuned to support multiple Thragtusk in its 75? It dawned to me when I was reconsidering several slots (3sphere, Metamorph, and to a certain degree Conduit).
Thragtusk is fat, restores our strained life, leaves a token if they play removal (filling a quite similiar role as Factory) and, most importantly, comboes extremely well with Displacer. "2C, gain 5 life and a 3/3? - I'll take that."
Casting Metamorph can already be troublesome at times, so I'm not sure if it's the right direction to take since it would require some changes to the mana base, like probably adding City of Traitors (which I'm not exactly a fan of).
Edit: Either that, or a Stoneforge package, which might require less overall changes.
Edit #2: Did a bit of goldfishing, replacing
- 2 Metamorph
- 2 Conduit
- 1 Jitte
with
+ 4 SFM
+ 1 Batterskull
I might be onto something here for the white builds, but it's still too early to tell. I assume there's just a slight modification needed to optimally support the higher white count. SFM also opens up the wondeful world of Protection Swords.
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Barook
I love my Mishra's Factories, but I wonder about the following:
Could the GW list be tuned to support multiple
Thragtusk in its 75? It dawned to me when I was reconsidering several slots (3sphere, Metamorph, and to a certain degree Conduit).
Thragtusk is fat, restores our strained life, leaves a token if they play removal (filling a quite similiar role as Factory) and, most importantly, comboes extremely well with Displacer. "2C, gain 5 life and a 3/3? - I'll take that."
Casting Metamorph can already be troublesome at times, so I'm not sure if it's the right direction to take since it would require some changes to the mana base, like probably adding City of Traitors (which I'm not exactly a fan of).
Edit: Either that, or a Stoneforge package, which might require less overall changes.
Edit #2: Did a bit of goldfishing, replacing
- 2 Metamorph
- 2 Conduit
- 1 Jitte
with
+ 4 SFM
+ 1 Batterskull
I might be onto something here for the white builds, but it's still too early to tell. I assume there's just a slight modification needed to optimally support the higher white count. SFM also opens up the wondeful world of Protection Swords.
Just a heads up. If you want to support a sfm you need at least 10 sources that can produce white
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
apple713
Just a heads up. If you want to support a sfm you need at least 10-12 sources that can produce white
I currently run 11 white MD sources (2 Mox, 3 Talisman, 2 Karakas, 4 Brushland). I might cut a Factory for another white source. Not sure if I move the 3rd Karakas from the SB to the main or just use another white Painland in that slot. Freeing up SB slots is attractive, but too many legendary lands might be a hinderance to the MD consistency. If I go with a 3rd Karakas, I might also switch to a 3 Mox/Talisman configuration, but I'm not to sure about that. Mox enables nice openings, but also shits up later draws much harder than Talisman.
I'm also thinking about removing 3sphere from the MD (not doing enough too often imho and being kinda random) for a single MD Sword of X and Y. Not sure if it should be SoFaI, SoFaF or SoLaS.
I also kind of forgot why I put in Krosan Grip into my SB and why I picked it over Banishing Light (which can also hit creatures and PWs). :confused:
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Barook
I currently run 11 white MD sources (2 Mox, 3 Talisman, 2 Karakas, 4 Brushland). I might cut a Factory for another white source. Not sure if I move the 3rd Karakas from the SB to the main or just use another white Painland in that slot. Freeing up SB slots is attractive, but too many legendary lands might be a hinderance to the MD consistency. If I go with a 3rd Karakas, I might also switch to a 3 Mox/Talisman configuration, but I'm not to sure about that. Mox enables nice openings, but also shits up later draws much harder than Talisman.
I'm also thinking about removing 3sphere from the MD (not doing enough too often imho and being kinda random) for a single MD Sword of X and Y. Not sure if it should be SoFaI, SoFaF or SoLaS.
I also kind of forgot why I put in Krosan Grip into my SB and why I picked it over Banishing Light (which can also hit creatures and PWs). :confused:
This is the situation with mox diamond. If your deck can capitalize on having that extra mana on t1 consistently than its worth 2x slots. If your deck can make up the card disadvantage later in the game, t4/5 then you could justify running 4. Depending on your mana base it may be a no brainer to run 4 because of multiple cot / legendary lands. Mox ensures that you can still draw them with consistency but use them if you get extra. 24 lands minimum to run 4 mox though. I think your hold up is finding a way to generate lost card advantage later in the game by running 4x mox.
White doesnt have anything along the lines of card advantage but green does and its perfect, sylvan library
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
apple713
Quick question, there is a lot of uproar about the awesomeness of this deck. All I see is another version of mud / stompy. Why is this better? Slightly more consistency?
There doesn't appear to be a "combo" so it's considered a "fair" deck. It gets wrecks by blood moon / back to basics / wasteland / tempo.
I've played Stompy decks for many years in Legacy - of all shades (white Soldiers, blue Faerie, red Dragon, green Sylvan).
This version simply feels faster, but not necessarily superior. Soldiers had card draw and Thalia, whereas this deck doesn't really have any kind of card draw, and it has to play Thorn instead of a 2/1 body attached to Thorn. Dragon Stompy had Moon effects which are arguably more disruptive than anything this deck plays with the possible exception of Thought Knot Seer. Faerie Stompy of course had access to blue which gave it counters and Back to Basics and the like.
I think people might be overestimating this deck, especially people who have never played Stompy variants in Legacy before. The power of Chalice of the Void and/or Trinisphere or Thorn effects will give the pilot alot of free wins, but these decks were never close to Tier 1 because at their heart they are still playing fair Magic without any kind of consistent smoothing of card draws that blue cantrips provide. I don't really see Eldrazi improving those weaknesses, because although they are very efficient, they are still just creatures fighting fair like any other Stompy deck.
The only way Eldrazi Stompy differentiates itself from the rest of the Tier 2 Stompy decks of Legacy is if they simply prove to be significantly faster and that speed makes up for other inherent deficiencies of creature-based Chalice/Tomb decks.
