I Splash Black and Green/White :)
Mvg
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I Splash Black and Green/White :)
Mvg
doesnt that get 2 diluted? From what i base my gobs I only allocate 7 slots to non-gobs cards and thats 4 vials and 3 stp's anything past that makes your ringleader miss alot of times. Which is why Im thingking of removing stp's for crib swap and maybe adding that new changeling in white to further increase my gob count.Quote:
Originally Posted by dlevsApiJ
It's basically giving up mana consistency for more answers to hate... If the meta is Wasteland-heavy, then splashing two colors might not be a good idea. And besides, even with 2 splashes, non-Goblin cards are still kept at minimum. For example, 4 Vials and 4 StP's/4 Tin Street Hooligan MD, then there would be 4 Krosan Grip/Disenchant and 4 Cabal Therapy in the SB to replace those StP's with when necessary.
EDIT: Oh, and there are answers to Engineered Plague in Black, just not that good though... Dralnu's Crusade and now Mad Auntie...
I don't think there's really all that many cards worth splashing, truth be told. And each color splash has a clear-cut frontrunner of the reason you splash that color. And each of them have cutesy ideas that might seem playable and aren't. So let's make this short and sweet - The reasons to splash colors.
White Splash
Swords to Plowshares - If you aren't running this, you have no reason to be running White. End of story. It's the best creature removal in the game.
Mirror Entity - Pretty good. Can win you the game singlehandedly in a close midgame, but so can Siege-Gang Commander.
Disenchant - You run this, or a cousin of it, if you're running Red-White only. Otherwise you skip it.
Armageddon - Very unlikely to be necessary, but in a bizarre meta, it's possible.
Green Splash
Tin-Street Hooligan - Still one of the best Goblins ever. Fits in Goblins' least common CMC slot, eats Jittes, eats Needles, eats Moxes, eats opposing Vials, you name it.
Krosan Grip - The best Naturalize ever printed, yet it overlaps in a way with Tin-Street Hooligan, making Tranquil Domain considerable in some metagames.
Black Splash
Thoughtseize - The best discard spell this deck could ask for.
Cabal Therapy - The second. Less likely to make the cut in a 3-color build.
Planar Void - Probably better than Crypt or Leyline, but not by a lot. Run it if you're splashing black, but don't splash black for it.
Terminate - The best option for targeted creature removal in RB Goblins. It's necessity is arguable. Could be Smother if it had to be.
Wort, Boggart Auntie - Worth exactly one slot, but board her out if you bring in Planar Void.
Multiple Splashes
Ray of Revelation - An option in RWG to handle what Tin-Street Hooligan doesn't. No better card exists against Plague.
Vindicate - An option in RWB to handle virtually anything.
Engineered Explosives - A catch-all removal spell that can hit Plague, Tarmogoyf, and handle ETW Tokens.
I just want to make a few quick observations from at least my area of the legacy metagame. I realize that combo is a bad matchup for goblins, but is it worth splashing a sub-par color like black just to improve that matchup?
I think black is a good color to run, but I think green is almost necessary for not only tin street which is debatable at this point, but for sb krosan grip. I believe running both of the colors seems like a good strategy, b ut I'm a big believer in having a consistent mana base, and I don't like running all those duals and not a lot of basics in the deck.
This may sound kinda stupid, but I rather just pack some cards in the board to slightly help the combo matchup. I would shift more of my focus on the other decks that people tend to play b/c at least in Syracuse combo has gone down just by all the control decks that people like to play.
The only problem with running only black there is not a good solution on taking care of plague or other global enchantments that may be a problem.
I sort of agree. I've found with a sideboard of:
4 Pyrokinesis
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Krosan Grip
3 Pithing Needle
That I can have a tolerable matchup against a broad field of troublesome matchups without splashing black. Epic Storm's probably my worst match, but that was never a wonderful setup for Goblins anyway.
That said, Thoughtseize is an answer to Plague. And Wort, Boggart Auntie is really good. But I'm not convinced Lorwyn has made black the go-to color, as of yet.
you forget crib swap... in this deck i think it's better than sword to plowshareQuote:
White Splash
you forget the most important card for the black splas: oversold cemetary (for SB) it's just the best card against pyroclasm and in the mirrorQuote:
Black Splash
you forget too vendetta which is better than terminate and dralnu's crusade (anecdotal)
Crib Swap is decent, but I don't think Crib Swap is better than Swords to Plowshares. Crib Swap requires 2 additional mana and you're giving your opponent a 1/1 creature to chump block things. Given the argument that this is awesome for your Gempalm to do more damage, you actually have to have the Gempalm out.Quote:
Originally Posted by puddn
As for Black Splash, Oversold Cemetery would be nice. Not so sure about Vendetta. Is Vendetta worth including in a mirror match?
im still not sold on adding more than 1 color in gobs its either you splash w/g or black but not go 4 color, wtf happens to your landbase? All non-basic? You become all the more vunerable to wasteland which is heavily played? I guess there all meta dependent, my build for gobs goes like this
4 gemplam
3 matron
1 goblin tinkerer
4 warchief
4 piledriver
4 ringleader
4 fanatic
2 siege-gang
4 lackey
3 stp
4 vials
7 fetches
3 plateau
4 wasteland
4 ports
5 mountains
sb:
3 disenchant
1 sharpshooter
2 pyrokiniesis
3 COTV
3 tormonds crypt
rest meta dependent
3 pyrostatic
1-2 pyroblast
1 sharpshooter.
As you can see the decks mana base is shaky as is so I dont see the point in splashing in multiples just to handle various threats. Plus it hampers your ringleader draws if the deck has multiple non-gobs.
I didn't mention Crib Swap because Crib Swap is just Crap with an "ib Sw" in there to disguise this fact. Three mana is too much to pay for a removal spell, especially, when three mana is a slot you desperately need open to cast your Goblins.Quote:
Originally Posted by puddn
I didn't mention Oversold Cemetary because it's not the best card against Pyroclasm - Goblin Ringleader is. I'll grant you that Cemetary might be useful in the mirror or against sweepers, but generally goblins bails itself out of that fairly well.
And I didn't mention Vendetta because A. It doesn't hit black creatures, and B. If you want to lose 5-6 life for that Tarmogoyf instead of paying 1 mana, you go right ahead. And Vendetta isn't good in the mirror at all.
Is it just me, or did they move this thread?
Moved it. I think it will get back in the DTB forum. It's just that people are underestimating this deck right now.
nope, goblins is done.
Stick a fork in this deck, yep it's done!
I think people are tired of playing with and against this deck. I know me and my friends have dropped playing it because it's been overdone. Still, if we pick it up again in the future, I highly doubt it'll have a losing record.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jak.
I was wondering how good CoTV is against the current Thresh builds with Goyf. In the past shutting down the cantrip-base and StP made it quite strong in the matchup but has Goyf swung it around so much that Chalice isn't worth it any more. I ask because I've looked over a few boards and it seems like many of them don't have Chalice which I considered a staple in the past.
Thanks for the help.
Nowadays the problem with CoTV is that Thresh plays now more answers to it (Spell Snare) than in the past, and it's main threats aren't affected by it (Werebear and 'Goyf). CoTV is mainly a sideboard card against combo, because it's now better then Pyrostatic Pillar (damn ETW).
Against Threshold I think better strategy is just maindeck Leyline of the Void; Bears and Mongooses are 1/1 all the time, and Goyf is just 2/3 mostly (3/4 if they happen to counter our Vial). 2/3 Goyf is basically Elvish Warrior, and that's not very scary at all. That's also easier to burn with Incinerator. Leyline also makes other matchups better, like Iggy-Pop and LftL-decks. It also murders Ichorid and some random Rogue-decks that might steal a game or two from you (like Re-animator). It's just overally good.
I definitely agree that Chalice isn't good in Goblins anymore. I'd go so far as to say that it never was.
Maindeck Leyline is an interesting idea. It definitely improves the Threshold match, and it's a godsend against Ichorid and Cephalid Breakfast. However, there's a problem with doing this.
The problem with maindecked Leylines is that in a large tournaments, you don't know when to mulligan for it / mulligan out of it. If someone sits down across from you who you don't know and you have no idea what they're playing, and your opening seven is decent and doesn't contain a Leyline, you can't really afford to go mulliganing for it when you have no idea if it's even going to help you in said matchup. Similarly, if you get an opening hand with a Leyline that's questionable other than the Leyline, you don't have any information on which to gauge if that Leyline is strong enough to make the hand keepable.
Is there really a reason to maindeck Leyline in a deck that doesn't profit from it?
If the metagame is so heavily reliant on the yard, there has to be a deck that can abuse the hell out of it without relying too heavily on the yard to be inconvenienced by everyone elses hate.
A modified SI comes to mind.
There's always Meekstone.... Then Ancient Grudge comes and bashes it away.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iranon
I'm not a fan of Leyline of the Void in goblins at all. I would rather have those slots for cards that will help you will the game against any deck. It depends on your preference of splash color, but I would almost rather have therapies or tin streets/incinerators over 4 main deck leylines.
I've been always a fan of tormod's crypt in the board for graveyard decks that you may run into. It allows you to drop it at any point within the game to gain a clear advantage.
The metagame is always changing depending on your location. I would almost have to say the 2 best builds of goblins is either the green or the black splash.
I'm always changing my board and splash color in the deck. It usually depends on the kind of metagame I'm expecting. If I feel a lot of combo will show up then I'll go with the black splash, if not then I'll just run goblins with the green splash.
I do like the green splash a lot more, but with combo around you have to change your strategy in order to have a good chance of winning in today's environment.