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It's obviously not a goblin, which sucks, but since enchantments like Engineered Plauge are your major worries, maybe using Kami of Ancient Law wouldn't be the worst idea. I'm far from sold that it would be better than Disenchant or Seal of Cleansing. I wouldn't solve opposing Vials or Pithing Needles, or Humility (now that I think of it)... Maybe it isnt worth concidering... but it would atleast be attaching a 2/2 body to your Plauge solution.
This thread needs a clean-up bad... Page one is like a list with chrome mox and such oh my... and then there's like 20 pages of BS chatter.
Can someone update the current list for this with all the ports and jim-jank or whatever the hell people are running in it these days so I can make sure my deck is golden on bitch-smacking it before I step in a tourney and get housed...
I updated my list in the first post, but thats the best I can do. I thought someone was working on a new thread like 2 months ago, but it hasn't ever happened. I don't know whats going on.
Roop
Is your list typed out correctly? I count 64 cards.Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Roopey
He forgot to cut Skirk Propector from the list. It was in the original , but is not being played in the deck anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roberto Clemente
On the lighter hand I have tested changes much like these and I have some opinions about the deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by calosso
I don't like Goblin King in this deck. King really only helps versus Engineered Plague and supposedly the Goblin mirror.
I really don't like King in the mirror match any more because it always seems to just wreck you if you don't get the kill the second you drop king. Don't get me wrong sometimes it will win games but an equal bit of the time you are going to run into Incinerations and other denial that is going to wreck your swing for the kill. With that initial king swing wrecked your going to just plain lose because you put everything into winning that turn (via king) and your going to find a whole other side of the table full of unblockable little red men coming straight to your skull.
The main reason people seem to justify King though is because of the maindeck and sideboard plagues that everyone seem to be running. The error in the logic of King to counteract this is the fact that most people have a plan to get 2 Plagues out which destroys your anti-plague technology and make king pointless. I would rather just have the Siege-Gang Commander or a Pyromancer to win the game than stall the E-Plague that has been dropped.
A reminder to all users that flaming and undeveloped posting in the LMF will not be tolerated and merits swift warning which can soon escalate to banning.
Most people just board in 4 plagues and hope to draw them, I'd think. Pikula's deck has no way to guarantee multiple plagues-- and if necessary you can tutor up multiple kings, which all pump each other etc etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gimbles
Many decks running Plague do have a way to find multiples, such as GAT and Dredge Tog, however. Also, Deadguy supplements its Plagues with Darkblast, which = combo. The main thing is that the multiple King strategy has been tested and proven to be ultimately ineffective against most strategies using Plague against it. Because King is itself a creature (and a Goblin at that), it is often not overly difficult for the opponent to pick apart the multiple King strategy by removing the first King before you get a second into play.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridiculous Hat
I don't doubt that King proves ineffectual over time, I was just doubting the validity of his statement in reference to multiple plagues. Also, right now I don't believe that GAT is actually a competetive deck, but that's besides the point.Quote:
Originally Posted by GodzillA
An answer that was frequently used in extended was Dralnu's Crusade, which also provides an answer to Cop/Rop: Red, Sphere of Law, and blue blast-- well, I suppose they just blue blast the crusade, but it's better than nothing. While the current builds of goblins may not run black, is this a potentially good answer to the plague problem?
With the exception of answering CoP:Red, (which I don't consider to be much of a metagame concern), Dralnu's Crusade is probably worse than Shared Triumph, since it hits the table faster and is in a more commonly splashed color. If CoP:Red is a huge issue then Dralnu's Crusade might be the better choice.
Personally, I lean towards not worrying about E. Plague. For the most part most people will only be able to get 1 Plague into play before I have the opportunity to put lethal damage on the stack. While Plague does slow down or eliminate some stragedies with Goblins, it doesn't seem to me like it is wrecking Goblins right now. If my meta becomes flooded with Black based decks I might change my mind but right now it's not all that much of an issue.
Back on subject ...
I really like Anarchy in Goblins. It provides a lot more help than I originally thought until I went to my GPT. Anarchy stops random losses to white weenie, it kills COP: Red, and stops many more threats that would otherwise heavily dampen your chances of winning. (Humility, etc)
Anarchy is just plainly, a strong card to run in any of the goblin hate matches.
I think my list is 2-4 cards off of most people's list (those that splash white anyway), and you've been doing this thread for 27 pages, so I don't know how much information or discussion I can add that hasn't already been said.
This is my current list:
4 Aether Vial
4 Gempalm Incinerator
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Piledriver
1 Goblin Pyromancer
4 Goblin Ringleader
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
4 Goblin Warchief
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
4 Mogg Fanatic
1 Siege-Gang Commander
3 Bloodstained Mire
6 Mountain
4 Plateau
4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
3 Wooded Foothills
Sideboard:
3 Pyrokinesis
4 Red Elemental Blast
4 Disenchant
4 Swords To Plowshares
Pretty standard except for the Swords to Plowshares, I think (which may not be necessary). I probably have a couple more lands than most, too.
I decided to go with 24 lands in my build because, a) I'd rather be mana flooded than mana screwed, b) More decks are packing land destruction/mana denial (i.e., Chris Pikula's deck), c) I am running 8 colourless mana sources (4 Rishadan Port, 4 Wasteland), and d) I lost to a mono-red Vial Goblins deck at a GPT due to mana issues (and I don't think he had Rishadan Ports or Wastelands).
As for Anarchy, I really like the card. And my sideboard for the aforementioned GPT was:
3 Anarchy
4 Red Elemental Blast
4 Disenchant
4 Swords To Plowshares
But, I found that, even with a large amount of (often maindeck) white hate cards (like Reverence) I played against, I was still able to win game one and game two off the back of 4 Disenchant. Anarchy was usually overkill (and sat in my hand) and I wanted to devote more sideboard slots to aggro and the mirror match (enter Pyrokinesis, an old favourite of mine that would have turned that match I lost to mono-red Vial Goblins right around).
Also, multiple Disenchant helped me get rid of an Aether Flash with counterspell back up against a U/R control deck.
Posts merged---Frogboy
Well Anarchy is a must have for those of us that are running mono-red. I admit splashing a color is nice and I do run green splash on occasion but it simply seems better with so much non-basic hate to run pure red.
Are you running Pithing Needle in your sideboard? Or is that a "duh" question? (If you can get your hands on Pithing Needles that is...)
I do like how mono-red can run Price of Progress in the sideboard. It seems like a really good damage source.
That is most definately a duh question. :P But that is quite alright, yes I run 3-4 pithing needles depending on what I will be expecting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
PoP like overkill on the non-basic land hate. Mostly because it isn't a goblin. :)
I'm confused as to why there are still only singletons of Siege-Gang Commander in these decks. It's your best drop off of a Goblin Lackey, it's the best creature in the mirror and allows you to more reliably shoot someone out of the game after the ground stalls or they drop something random like Moat.
I'd be cutting Pyromancer for sure for one, and possibly Kiki-Jiki for the other. Pyromancer isn't even as good as Siege-Gang is in the mirror, and Kiki-Jiki is more explosive but less good on his own.
We all know Kiki-Jiki is sick when dropped early off a Lackey, and Goblin Pyromancer is my (main deck) mirror-match card, but overall I would tend to agree with your assessment of Siege-Gang Commander, and will probably drop Kiki-Jiki and Goblin Pyromancer and replace them with two more Siege-Gang Commanders (which may, in fact, be better than Goblin Pyromancer in the mirror-match).
It's too bad Skirk Prospector doesn't quite make the cut, as he is such an enabler of the "shoot someone out of the game" strategy with Siege-Gang Commander and has synergy with Goblin Sharpshooter as well. There have been many times that I would rather play Skirk Prospector over Mogg Fanatic (as good as Mogg Fanatic is).
What are people's thoughts on Swords to Plowshares in the sideboard of white-splash Goblin decks? Is it necessary? The Reanimator decks never really panned out, and Tog isn't quite a contender... (at least in Legacy...)
I tend to like 2x Siege-gange Commander because I don't want to be hard casting them too often but it is a powerful card individually to shoot through a lackey. Two just seems to work really well and give it the explosiveness the right percent of the time that I need.