Where has Flickerwisp gone to, then?Quote:
Originally Posted by Teumie
I have a question for Finn (or anyone else who thinks he knows the answer;)). What are the Forge Tenders for in your OP list? Isn't Tivadar enough aiganist Red aggro?
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Where has Flickerwisp gone to, then?Quote:
Originally Posted by Teumie
I have a question for Finn (or anyone else who thinks he knows the answer;)). What are the Forge Tenders for in your OP list? Isn't Tivadar enough aiganist Red aggro?
Also Ichorid.Quote:
Originally Posted by leander?
DeckQuote:
Originally Posted by Ceridan
Creatures:
3x Aven Mindcensor
3x Mangara of Corondor
3x Isamaru, Hound of Konda
3x Stonecloaker
4x Serra Avenger
3x Jotun Grunt
3x Flickerwisp
Enchantments:
3x Oblivion Ring
Artifacts:
4x Aether Vial
3x Umezawa's Jitte
Instants:
4x Swords to Plowshares
Sorcery:
3x Cataclysm
Lands:
9x Plains
4x Rishadan Port
4x Flagstones of Trokair
4x Karakas
Sideboard:
4x Abeyance
1x Cataclysm
4x Ethersworn Canonist
3x Tivadar of Thorn
3x True Believer
I am about to start changing this around a little, but this is the list I took to Chicago.
Hi all,
Im going to play at a small tournament soon, and with my team we decided to try the green splash build. This tournament will mostly consist of aggro (1 goblin and 1 elf deck spotted).
My team convinced me to try runed halo, which i agreed opon becouse most decks in the meta here rely on 1 or 2 creatures to kill (dread still, Team America, thresh) its also good against combo. About aven mindcensor, when i played it, it wasnt really that great (although i must admit i didnt play it for long) i rather have flickerwisp. Thats why im going to try a build with 2 stonecloacker, stonecloackers are great, but they suck if you dont have a creature in play. And like Finn, i love flickerwisps :P
Btw, what are your thoughts about 3 isamaru's? ok, its a 1 drop.. and it can chump block a goyf with karakas.. but apart from that, it doesnt really do alot. So how about cutting 1 of those and add a canonist/grunt/mangara?
this is the list im planning on playing:
Creatures:
3x Ethersworn Canonist
3x Mangara of Corondor
3x Isamaru, Hound of Konda
2x Stonecloaker
4x Serra Avenger
2x Jotun Grunt
4x Flickerwisp
4x Goyf
Enchantments:
3x Oblivion Ring
Artifacts:
4x Aether Vial
3x Umezawa's Jitte
Instants:
4x Swords to Plowshares
Lands:
6x Plains
3x Savannah
4x Heath
2x Rishadan Port
2x Flagstones of Trokair
4x Karakas
Sideboard:
4x Runed Halo
3x Cataclysm
3x Wheel of sun and moon
2x Gaddock Teeg
3x Krosan grip
I think you are going to run into the same problem everyone does when they splash. Only 7 green mana sources and no search.
true, but then again, i only need 1 green mana, and vial helps too. but ill test this for a while, and see how many times it works against me. (first test is gonna be a tournament :P )
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pienterekaak
Oh, don't get me wrong, Aven Mindcensor should NEVER be played over Flickerwisp. The Aven is good, but Flickerwisp just makes the deck awesome.
If you are splashing green for goys, why not go with Horizon Canopy?
Gets you some card draw in a pinch, and the 1 loss of life is almost never a big factor.
Also, I have often had matches with 2-3 Karakas. Why not swap the 4th one for an Eijango castle? I have a decklist that I will post soon. So far, i think the most dissapointing creature has been Samurait of the Pale Curtain as I have no faced threshold as much as I'd like to.
true, but i can fetch for savannah, not for canopy. thats why i would rather play it over canopy, but thank you for your advise, i want my list as strong as possibleQuote:
Originally Posted by whitescorpion
Whitescorpion, I dont' really play with Samurais any more. It turns out that Canonist has a habit of hurting most of the same decks that Samurais do and better. And it also hurts a bunch of others even more.
I have tried a few different splashes and I always come back to mono white. I suppose everyone must see for themselves what works for them.
ok, i finished my tournament :) became close to 10th place, only loosing to ichorid and elfball.
ichorid was against a friend, so i didnt mind,
but the elfball guy won his first game on luck (he had 3 summoning pacts.. so he could search for enough combo pieces even when i flickerwisped 1 of them)
and second time i kept a hand with 2 land, canonist and clysm. but i dont draw lands for 5 turns.. so i loose
but the deck did quite good, although i must admit that the green splash never felt great. Goyfs were almost always 2/3 - 3/4.. which is not that impressive..
then a team member came up with the idea of a black splash for..... bitterblossom.
its completely differend from the normal stratigy of the deck, but i think its worth a try, since i already play jitte (which won me alot of games in the tournament btw) and it chumpblocks goyfs for 1 life.
so ill test it, and see if it makes a good secondary win condition. tidehollow scutter also seems interesting, but i cant afford to have too many cards in my deck requiering black mana..
I do think that if you choose to splash, black is the way to go. Either for Bitterblossom, for Sculler or for Dark Confidant or Vindicate. But since you haven't got much open slots, I'd actually rather choose Dark Confidant over Bitterblossom, Becouse Dark Confidant gives you something that the deck normally doesnt have, while Bitterblossom doesn't as far as I see.
What's about blue splash for Momentary blink? :-)
well i prefer ring over vindicate i think, if only becouse i can use flickerwisp to trick with it.
but indeed, confidant vs bitterblossom.. confidant can be quite good, but i usually have enough cards at hand, and alot of cards would hurt me alot (rings, wisps, stonecloaker, clysm and mangara are all 3+ damage)
so i wonder if you dont kill yourself too much with confidant?
and blossom also gives the deck a whole new way to win (gives you a clock when you lock him with mangara)
@Pinterekaak, I honestly would go with Vindicate over Oblivion Ring for certain if playing black.
@humppa, There is a lot more to the deck than the whole blinking aspect. Momentary Blink is pretty bad in Legacy, and I would not be using it in this deck.
@leander?, I think I agree with all of this. The cards I would most like to manage if splashing are:
Tidehollow Sculler: great with Flickerwisp in the same way Oblivion Ring is, but it even works with Stonecloaker.
Dark Confidant: This guy's ability is sorely needed especially since most people have removed the Cataclysms from the main. You have mana to spare for additional cards more often.
Vindicate: The ability to hit lands is more important imo than the oblivion Ring shenanigans we can occasionally manage.
Thoughtseize: not great in this deck, but it removes problem cards, especially creature removal that might be aimed at the Sculler.
Being a big fan of Mangara, I've goldfished LegacyDan's deck about five times to get an idea of it. However, the results from the test weren't good enough to convice me to play it. That's how I feel about it.
1. Fun tricks
2. No acceleration
3. No punch. Weak critters
4. I don't control the board
5. I would be dead by now
6. I'm not sure this has a chance against control
7. No card draw
8. Mangara tricks are easily stopped
Totally underwhelming. ._.
Err.. you´re saying this is underwhelming after five goldfish games?:confused:
I'm not even going to talk about those points, just test it against some opponents before taking conclusions. Obviously this deck sucks against a goldfish..
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrJones
First things first, that list you goldfished with is kinda out of date. I no longer use Cataclysms.
The second thought that comes to mind is the fact that you GOLDFISHED it five times. You really can't come to understand the deck until you actually play against another person. Please do not come to your conclusions before your deck has some experience on the playfield.
@Dr.Jones
The thing with D&T that I noticed is that it seems very unimpressive when goldfishing it, but D&T is absurdly reactive. The deck in all honesty reminds me of old 1.x deck(pre-legacy) and current vintage fish decks. The elements that remind me of them are that every single card in D&T serves a purpose in specific matchups and in many cases; serves as an outright answer.
I haven't logged a lot of hours with the deck, but I have won more than a few matches that I probably didn't have any business winning because of the myriad of tricks and tools that the deck has. Most of the builds that I have played with require a very crafty and knowledgeable player piloting them. Not everyone has this knack. Some people are better-suited to play easier decks.
At a glance, someone that doesn't understand D&T will see a white weenie deck with a few fish and that is something very misleading about the deck because the deck's strength lies in its flexibility and how it will reward an intelligent player, rather than playing out the way most white weenie decks have in the past.
A typical scenario that I would play out with the deck is turn one doggy or vial, follow it with a port and basically disrupt my opponent all the way to the finish line, by tying up a few resources and/or invalidating whatever they play during their turn, all the while steadily beating on them with whatever beats I was able to curve out while disrupting their strategy heavily.
Absolutely none of these games were very fast unless my opponent scooped and all of them had a very annoyed opponent on the end of my dorks because it seems like the deck has a everlasting supply of pseudo-cheatyfaced tricks.
Five goldfish is such a grossly inadequate method of evaluating the deck that it actually suggests that you probably don't have any business playing the deck to start with, no offense.
Don't get me wrong here: D&T isn't the best deck in the format or anything like that, but it is an extremely good, fun, flexable and rewarding deck to pilot.
I actually have a question for the guys who play D&T a lot: is cataclysm really that underwhelming still? Things are seeming to revert back to decks that are not relying on one huge beater, like 'naught to win.
To be perfectly honest, I must agree that D+T is not a top contendor BUT it is an awesome to play (its what I use to test different playgroups/tourney scenes).
Honestly, if I see a resurgence of top tier decks that fear a timely Cataclysm then I myself will consider running them again. That is one of the main reasons I like this decks, its flexible. Well, that and people usually consider it "just another WW deck" like Mordel pointed out.