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Alright, alright, I'll post my list, lol. (finally on a computer and not on my phone, lol.
TezzAffinity
1 Great Furnace
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers
4 Darksteel Citadel
2 Ancient Tomb
1 City of Brass
4 Etched Champion
4 Frogmite
4 Memnite
4 Signal Pest
4 Master of Etherium
4 Cranial Plating
4 Thoughtcast
4 Springleaf Drum
3 Galvanic Blast
3 Mox Opal
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
I was thinking of maybe changing the Frogmites for Vault Skirges, good move?
Okay yea, you definitely are going to want the Virtue's Ruin in the sideboard lol. You're build is all in on the ground-bound creature plan, so you will need a way to clear blockers. Pest and Champion are the only two that can actually carry a Plating past blockers. At the same time, your attackers are not very aggressive (only Master applies any serious amount of pressure). I would definitely run Ornithopters over Memnites in your list... that will take you up to 12 evasive creatures, which should be enough.
I'd also cut 1-2 Springleaf Drums. You're only running 4 0cc creatures and 4 1cc creatures to enable it on turns 1 and 2 consistently (enough to matter anyways). I'd probably add in the 4th Galvanic Blast if you cut one, and if you cut two, I'd add the 4th Mox Opal.
In regards to cutting Frogmites for Vault Skirges... yes, do that. Being 1cc will not only increase your consistency for hitting Metalcraft sooner, they give you more bodies to carry Platings. 1/1 fliers will also give you more consistent damage against aggro decks (where oftentimes Frogmites won't be able to attack without dying), and the lifelink goes a long way when you're consistently growing its power (Pest/Master/Plating).
So my suggestions would be:
-4 Memnite
-4 Frogmite
-1 Springleaf Drum
+4 Ornithopter
+4 Vault Skirge
+1 Galvanic Blast
At that point, you aren't really worried about blockers anymore, so you should no longer need Virtue's Ruin or Perish in the sideboard. You're biggest threats against Maverick are going to be Qasali Pridemage (blows up Platings) and Umezawa's Jitte (nukes your X/1's). Pithing Needle and Phyrexian Revoker deal with both of those much better than Virtue's Ruin or Perish does. Needle and Revoker are also alot more valuable in other matchups.
I just realized I forgot to add the 2x Ornithopters to my list lol, sorry.
I actually ran 4 Blasts, but I cut one to add a Great Furnace, because I felt low on lands a bit. I think I'm gonna cut a Drum for the Blast, and the Frogmites (I like the 2/2 for 1-2, but other than that, it doesn't really do much for me) for the Skirges, because they seem to be AMAZING.
I have yet to test Hanni #2 or #3 yet, just been playing with Steelblade. If you haven't played with the 0-cost equip before, its absolutely bonkers in practice. My only gripe is that without Puresteel in play, the deck feels very clunky. Despite mantle/opal, you only have so much mana, and playing/SFM'ing/equipping all those chunky equipments is slow (one turn to cast a SoFI, another to equip, etc). If you get the sweet plays of MoR into Puresteel, you'll go off and it's a lot of fun. Just the hands I never saw him or if he was removed straight away, I just durdled around and died. Did you test either Mask of Avacyn or Swiftfoot Boots for the Hexproof?
I wonder if anyone except for me has tried sth like this:
4 Ornithopter
3 Memnite
3 Baleful Strix
2 Steel Overseer
4 Dark Confidant
4 Etched Champion
3 Master of Etherium
4 Cranial Plating
3 Thoughtcast
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
3 Mox Opal
2 Springleaf Drum
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Darkslick Shores
1 Academy Ruins
This list is not an Aggro deck, it's midrange - it ramps, it has huge threats, it has disruption, it has CA and it has a few trump cards up it's sleeves - basically, it's The Rock disguised as Affinity.
Some thoughts about the individual cardchoices:
Ornithopter: The best 0 mana creature for us. Carries Platings like a boss, blocks Lackeys, unflipped Delvers and unthreshed Mongeese all over the place. They also do everything Memnites do...
Memnite: As much as I hate drawing Memnites later in the game, they are the invaluable Ornithopter 5-7 early, enabling Drum, enabling Metalcraft, carrying Platings, getting beefed by Overseer, making Thoughtcast a passable Ancestral Recall imitation, saccing to Therapy and looking cute. Too bad they don't fly, like their idols do. Still, they are a must.
Baleful Strix: This is the new kid on the block and he performed very promising in testing. He's an excellent card against the fair decks and actually quite relevant against Reanimator or Show and Tell - drop this against their Griselbrand and you might gain some valuable time.
Steel Overseer: This dude helps out Memnite, Strix and Ornithopter, so they can go to town. Basically, untapping with this guy in play means a lot of pain if your opponent wants to win with creatures. 2 activations and your Memnites have turned into fluffy kitties. I wouldn't want to play more than 2, though, as multiples make for awkward draws and they can be quite slow at times.
Dark Confidant: He draws cards, end of story. He is quite swing in this deck with an average CMC of 1,35 but spikes at 4 and 5, but he does what you want him to do: Absorb removal or win the game. Should your life total get low, sac him for Therapy.
Etched Champion: Invincible roadblock for Aggro and unblockable. Bad in the mirror, but seriously... There's not much to be said about him, besides him being removalproof and the single best carrier for Plating.
Master of Etherium: Gigantic dude, sadly, he dies to everything. If he doesn't, though, he wins the game in a few swings. He also pumps your little guys, adding an average of 12 power to the board when he lands.
Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas: This bad boy is the best planeswalker if your deck can support him. He ends games at blazing speed, be it through 5/5 beatdown or his ultimate. Also, do not underestimate the amount of life he gains. Against Aggro, drawing a card and then draining them for 12-16 all while gaining the same amount of life, puts the game far out of reach for them. Alternatively, you can just draw an extra card every turn.
Cranial Plating: Do i really have to explain why I play this card?
Cabal Therapy: I want disruption. Sadly, MM got banned and other counters don't really do what I want them to do, so proactivity is the name of the game now. Once you get the hang of the deck, you will know what to name and this card will tear your opponent's hand apart.
Inquisition of Kozilek: Disruption #5 - I prefer it over Thoughtseize simply because of the lifeloss. You can play Thoughtseize if you want to, but I prefer IoK.
Mox Opal: Best Ramp for this deck, too bad, this is legendary. It being legendary is no excuse to play bad cards like Ravager, don't even think about it. If you draw multiples, deal with it. The CA the deck generates overall makes up for that.
Springleaf Drum: Because Mox is legendary and we need some more Ramp/fixing, this is the next best card - Tezzeret can turn it into a 5/5, uses him for his ultimate and Cranial Plating likes it, too. It's a janky card on it's own, but in the context, it works fine.
Darkslick Shores: The drawback is never (read: never) relevant. Never. Nevereverever. Should you play against Merfolk, you will congratulate yourself for playing this over Underground Sea.
Academy Ruins: This is experimental. The inclusion of Baleful Strix made me consider this card, as lategame against Aggro, you can draw both Strix and another card. Academy Ruins also gets back Plating, countered Champions and destroyed Masters. More than 1 is a no-go, though.
Artifact lands: Play these. All 12. No discussion.
All in all, this is my take on Affinity. If this type proves different enough from regular Affinity, I will open a new thread for it. Until then, give it a try and tell me what you think.
I don't think Dark Confidant is so hot in Tezz Affinity. 4 Thoughtcast, 3 Tezz, 7 3-drops make the Great One very costly in your deck. At least run some Vault Skirge to offset Bob. Speaking of which, why aren't you running the little critter anyway? He's the best flier you can run in Affinity, way better than Baleful Strix.
The problem with making Affinity more like The Rock is that along with inheriting the strengths of The Rock of being disruptive and controlling you inherit another of The Rock's best qualities - it's inability to just straight up win.
EDIT: I have a feeling you might have struck gold with the 1-of Academy Ruins. I'm going to try it over one of my UB painlands. I don't know why I didn't think of trying it when I was thinking of what utility lands I could run in my three slots. I more I think about Ruins, the more I think it's theoretically awesome. The thought of getting back Cranial Platings and Etched Champions is becoming sweeter with every second I imagine it.
Bob was fine back when I ran 4 Thoughtcast. There are 27 cards that cost 0 in my list, so there's that. He's just a bit swingy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawon
Vault Skirge is a card I tested, but he suffers from so many problems:
His size is irrelevant. The same argument could be made about Memnite and Ornithopter, but these 2 cost no mana.
Vault Skirge also doesn't gain you too much life - it comes with an initial investment of 2 life. Assuming you play it turn 1, it will have gained you the first life turn 4, 3 turns later. Ofc he's nuts with Plating, but tell me which creature isn't.
Again, his body is irrelevant. Strix trades with everything and draws a card - that's where my list wants to be.
I didn't pull this list out of my ass, I have played a very similiar one at the german legacy championship last year to a top 8 finish - okay, Mental Misstep was a thing back then, but the Meta was comparable. Lots of RUG, UW, GW, Dredge and some Storm.
Strix is an addition I am very excited about and my testing shows that it's indeed very strong against fair decks.
So far the list feels strong again, I need a plan VS little green men, though.
I guess the obvious answer is Perish. Is it not working for you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Nidd
The problem with most little green men is that they are red ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by ween
Updated my post. Have fun.
You need to test Vault Skirge again. Let me tell you why it's better than Baleful Strix. Vault Skirge is better than Baleful Strix because it costs one-mana, which assists your goal of being "Affinity," dropping artifacts and casting Thoughtcast. Skirge makes hands more keepable in a deck that has to mulligan sometimes. Baleful Strix doesn't do this because you need UB, which in this deck is giganticly costlier than 1 mana.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nidd
Here's an example. You can't keep this hand:
Darksteel Citadel
Mox Opal
2x Baleful Strix
Thoughtcast
Frogmite
Etched Champion
This hand is a mulligan. If those Baleful Stric were Vault Skirge, you could amass 4 power on turn 1, have Thoughtcast with mana backup turn 2 or possibly cast Champ if you draw a land next turn.
Baleful Strix helps your mid/late-game. Vault Skirge helps you keep hands, I think that's way more important.
You are looking at my list as an Aggro deck, which it isn't. My goal is not "being Affinity" as in dropping my hand as fast as possible, my goal is to play efficient, synergistic cards to take over the game. I also don't play Frogmite, which you would know, had you taken a closer look at my list.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawon
Thinking of sample hands won't help in judging cards, playing the deck and seeing the cards perform does.
Change Frogmite into any other card besides Drum or another artifact land and you essentially get the same unkeepable hand. The sample hand I described is pretty average as far as bad hands go for Affinity, so I didn't cherry-pick the worst hand you could possibly have just so I could make a point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nidd
Just because there is a distinction between the role you are seeking and the traditional aggro role of Affinity doesn't mean the deckbuilding principles don't apply. You may have different cards than the traditional Tezz list, but you still operate just the same and that is where I am speaking from. I know all and well that Baleful Strix has 'value,' but Vault Skirge has enough value to make up for itself and it's actually more synergistic with the deck than Baleful Strix because it can support other cards in the deck. Baleful Strix needs other cards to be cast, at least two (three if you use Drum). Vault Skirge just needs one mana, and that's of any color, which very noncommital for a card that is insane in this deck.
EDIT: Before you tell me again that I should test Baleful Strix before judging, let me say that I have played long enough with Tezz Affinity this year to pre-evaluate some cards, if they have similar mana costs and constraints as cards I have already played with. I can judge Baleful Strix because I have played with Tezzeret. It's hard enough to reach UB early on when you take into account Wasteland and countermagic on your mana spells. Baleful Strix's value as a card, to me, doesn't outweigh the need to commit two or more cards to cast it.
If you change frogmite in that hand I wouldn't keep it with skirges either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawon
I like the deck due to the CA and therefore being able to go for longer than 4 turns.
I played a lot of variants of artifact decks in legacy especially "steel stompy".
Nidd's Affinity plays like a hybrid between this and Affinity, seems very competitive.
This deck can be nuts sometimes... :O
Turn 2 Tezzeret with a 5/5 Signal Pest... Without using an Ancient Tomb...
Why would you mull? Even if your opponent STPs a Skirge, you can go Thoughtcast turn 2, hopefully into some mana if you didn't draw it on your draw step. Your hand isn't going to be that much better if you mull. You're more likely to mull into just the same hand or even worse than mulliganing to a nutty six-card hand.Quote:
Originally Posted by whiley85
After turn 1 you have 2 power on board at 16 life with 3 cards left in your hand. This is everything but pressure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawon
If thoughtcast gets countered you'll have a hard time. But this is the problem of "fast affinity" in general.
It depends too much on platings for being successful.
What do you guys think of this list?
4 Ornithopter
4 Puresteel Paladin
4 Vault Skirge
4 Dark Confidant
3 Memnite
3 Stoneforge Mystic
Spells
4 Thoughtcast
4 Cranial Plating
4 Paradise Mantle
4 Bonesplitter
4 Dispatch
2 Mox Opal
Lands
4 Ancient Den
4 Glimmervoid
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers
I know paradise mantle seems janky at first, but it really is the same thing as drum but far far better with puresteel in the mix. Dark Confidant and Puresteel can both be dropped turn 1 which opens the deck up to some crazy stuff.
As an example T1 Mox, Den, Puresteel, Ornithopter, Mantle, Confidant, thoughtcast AND this can keep going for a long time. Every 0cc creature adds mana, every 1 cc creature is free, and every equipment draws cards and equips for free. By turn 2 you can drop and equip multiple platings and equip for free swinging in. Plus mediocre hands are less all in when your drawing cards throughout the entire game.
Because it is.Quote:
I know paradise mantle seems janky at first,
You're under-valuing Mox Opal, especially since you're already running 4 Ornithopter/3 Memnite. I'd go -2 Vault Skirge, +1 Opal, +1 Memnite. On a minor note, Vault Skirge flipped on Confidant will cost you 2 to 4 life, whereas Memnite and Mox Opal is always zero.Quote:
Originally Posted by godofallu
That hand is 0 pressure, 0 CA beyond the initial Thoughtcast and has no lategame. It's all in on drawing into something relevant.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawon
What I learned while piloting my list was figuring out what each of my hands can do and I wouldn't consider attacking for 1 with lifelink relevant at all. Just like you mull hands with 3 or more 0 mana dorks without big followups.
Strix often invalidates draws which are kind of all in on a single big dude and is guaranteed CA.
Again, give the list a whirl and figure out your gameplan with each hand.
You would be attacking for 2 with lifelink, making it easier to keep that hand and naturally draw into something, because the lifelink slows down the damage you could be taking while you are fishing. It's not irrelevant.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nidd
Anyway, my point wasn't that replacing Baleful Strix would make that sample hand suddenly awesome. I'm aware that hand is still a bad hand with Vault Skirge in it, but I think one of our differences lies in our definitions of a 'keepable' hand. My point is that the hand would be keepable with Vault Skirge because 2 power on the offense is better than 0, your only land is a land that can't be destroyed by Wasteland, you can play Thoughtcast for (1)U next turn or play Etched Champion if you draw a land. That's a lot better than what you're likely to encounter when you're mulliganing with a deck that runs 15-16 land. You say to figure a gameplan with each hand, and I've explained how you have more than one game plan in the sample hand I've described if you had Vault Skirge instead of Baleful Strix.
The reason I think 3 memnite is the right amount is because they don't have evasion and I basically always get affinity without them.
Vault skirge has evasion and wears equipment better than basically any other creature in the deck. It generally swings for 10+ lifelink by turn 3-4.
Oh and Mox Opal could be 2 or 3. IDK what the right count is but I own 2 and with the card draw I still see both fairly often.
Each and every creature we run is nuts with Plating. Vault Skirge is godlike with Plating, but it's a horrible card without it.Quote:
Originally Posted by godofallu
Don't get me wrong. Skirge is fine as an additional beater for the fast versions. But the approach I am proposing is not fast. Heck, I'd rather run Revoker again.
Have some of you guys considered the abyss in this deck to combat other creature-based strategies?
It would be pretty sick to have your opponents always sacrificing creatures, while your's are protected.
Affinity already loves acceleration, and so does the abyss... It may take some retooling, but SOMEBODY please make it work, because I think it'll be sick, for 1, and secondly, I feel like this would pressure a lot of agro decks, trying to race board position... It becomes even more powerful the lower the creature count the opposing deck has as well (assuming the threats are non-artifact).
Why don't you try it out yourself and get back to us? Personally, I wouldn't use the Abyss because it costs too much mana for what it does. My creature tech is 3 Umezawa's Jitte and 1 Etched Champion in the sb, and so far that's been working great for me.
I wouldn't have asked for others to do it if I had time for it. If you don't want to test out new options to potentially strengthen your archetype, that's fine. Although, this might fit better in metalworker Agro/control.
I don't think the Abyss has any place in Affinity. It costs 4 mana which is the same as Tezzeret. So for 4cc you can either win the game next turn with Tezz OR trade 1 of your creatures for 1 of theirs.
You don't have the time to test Abyss in Affinity, yet you have the time to ask other people to test for you and reply with a condescending remark when someone suggest you try out a card yourself? Either you've got some balls, or you're a lazy as shit. Probably the latter.Quote:
Originally Posted by thefreakaccident
When I want to find out how a card fits into a deck, I either ask people's thoughts, search threads and articles, or test the card myself.
Just finished 3rd at my LGS's Weekly Legacy Tournament, I didn't change anything to my list because I didn't have time to. We were 8 and I saw:
1st round: Goblins
2-1
2nd round: Elves!
2-0
3rd round: Maverick (I think)
0-2
And from what I saw for the rest: Junk, MBC, LED Dredge, and Turbo Eldrazi
I liked it, metagame was varied, and kept things interesting. :)
Nice work. What were your observations in your match with Maverick?
That I hardly had any outs... I sided in Duress and Ancient Grudge (for the equipments) but I only drew 1 Duress...
I wish I would have drawn Galvanic Blast a lot more than I did though...
That sucks. I remember when I first starting testing this deck against Maverick I'd always wish I drew more Galvanic Blast, especially against Stoneforge...
Lemme guess, was Jitte the equipment you saw the most? I typically find that the best way to fight Jitte is running Jitte yourself. If they have it, you save your army. If they don't, they're in trouble.
I saw Jitte a bit, but not as much as I thought I would. Maybe my opponent was new to the deck?Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawon
I've tried your build, and made some tweaks i was interested in hearing your feedback on (you menton you had worked a lot on that list)Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanni
I didn't have Underground Seas, so went with Underground River.
Similarly, the Gaea's Cradle became a Glimmervoid.
I swapped a Springleaf Drum for a main deck Umezawa's Jitte and Phyrexian Walker became Etched Champions.
This does hurt the mana a little and potentially slows the opening down, but i think it adds a much meatier mid-game with Champions.
My friend has a MBC list, and I have a hard time vs him, especially when he gets his stuff online soon (IoK, Liliana, etc.) how do you guys beat MBC?
It should be the other way around. Affinity is a nightmare matchup for MBC, if by MBC you're referring to Smallpox decks. I beat them all the time on MWS.
Just keep whatever fast goldfish you have. They're too slow to hold you down since they don't run any targeted removal to dispose of your real threats, so if they cast Smallpox or Liliana, just sacrifice Ornithopter or Memnite and keep chipping at their life total until they die. If you have to choose between sacrificing Vault Skirge over Frogmite, you should always pick Frogmite because you don't want to have Nether Spirit chump-blocking your Froggy.
As long as your hand is fast and the MBC doesn't surprise you with an Infest (unlikely), it's an easy matchup. Of course, I make it really tough for them when I Spell Pierce whatever is about to save them from losing... but I guess I'm the only person in this thread who thinks Spell Pierce is good... must be something wrong with my brain...
Knowing what to cut really helps, too, because the less useless topdecks you run into, the more likely you will come out ahead if they try to drag you into a grind.
Take out while boarding:
- All of your Etched Champion (it's pro-color is irrelevant against 'sacrifice' removal, and Mishra's Factory blocks it with great success, and Cursed Scroll kills it easily too)
- All or at least 2 Tezzeret from your MD (too slow)
Would it be wise to side out my MoEs first over my Etched? Or is the pump really important? And with all the discard, I can understand why I would side out Tezzeret.
EDIT: I think it's time for me to test Spell Pierce, because I think it could be really good.
Masters can be 4/4 or higher. Etched Champion is just a Gray Ogre in the matchup.
Yeah, makes sense.
I thought that I'd post my list (and write it up correctly this time...)
Lands/mana
4 Darksteel Citadel
1 Great Furnace
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers
2 Ancient Tomb
1 City of Brass
4 Springleaf Drum
3 Mox Opal
Beaters
2 Ornithopter
4 Signal Pest
4 Memnite
4 Frogmite
Win-cons
4 Etched Champion
4 Master of Etherium
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
4 Cranial Plating
Other(s)
3 Galvanic Blast
4 Thoughtcast
1 Spellskite
SB
Same as before, but my change the Duress to Cabal Therapy
I have yet to change the Frogmites for Skirges (but I like them too much...), also of all the games I've played, using Pest or Orni, I always had one swinging for 8+ Flying damage. But I think the Lifelink would be of great help since of all the life I lose with my City and Tombs (yes the Tombs accelerate a bunch, but the lifeloss is kind of major sometimes, esp. when I play against some kind of fast aggro.)
All in all, I find Affinity to be an extremely powerful deck. As I read somewhere, it might not be Tier 1 but its damn near powerful enough to be part of it (at least in my opinion). Its sleeved up, and I think its going to be my go-to deck from now on, because it suits my play style so perfectly.
Alright, I'll stop bothering you guys with this.
Enjoy!