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Oh? I forgot I was still apart of this thread and all. It seems like the decklists are becoming something else.Quote:
Originally Posted by emidln
Anyway, that was a good description/break down of the sideboard.
A lot of people don't think like this. Orim's Chant on it's own got me to the top 8 of the Grand Prix, but for some reason people forget that. It won me round 15, then won both of my Sneak Attack match-ups. Not to mention, being all around awesome.Quote:
Originally Posted by Autotron
Infernal Tutor is a bomb in the sideboard, is there really any kind of consenus that you need 4 maindeck? It goes without saying that you have less chance of a natural draw with 3, but it makes all 4 of your Burning Wishes much stronger. Instead of needing either 2 Burning Wish or 1 Wish and 1 IT in hand or yard, you just need 1 Wish.
Totally off topic, but my second Underground Sea is on the way :D
Props to being optimal.
I'll still be rocking City of Brass #3 on Sunday though :(
If you happen to own a Tundra, you might consider that as well as it might be better than the third city. Some people even prefer it over the second city.Quote:
Originally Posted by RaNDoMxGeSTuReS
The best sub I have is the City of Brass, maybe I'll get lucky and the Underground Sea will arrive Saturday.
All I know is that I'll be doing more obsessive goldfishing and playtesting versus Countertop and Merfolk.
So I’ve been a believer in the infernal tutor in the sideboard for a long time, I’ve found that I always seem to get a hand with a burning wish and gas that I want to make into tendrils at least once per tournament so I did some math in excel. Here’s the numbers.
4 infernal tutors in deck
33.6280% 1 infernal drawn, 4 in deck, 7 card hand, 60 card deck
5.9344% 2 infernal drawn 4 in deck 7 card hand 60 card deck
0.3804% 3 drawn 4 in deck 7 card hand 60 cards
0.0072% 4 drawn 4 in deck 7 card hand 60 cards
= 39.95% chance of drawing total
3 in deck
28.1882% 1 drawn 3 in deck 7 card hand 60 card deck
3.2525% 2 drawn 3 in deck 7 cards 60 card deck
0.1023% 3 drawn 3 in deck 7 cards 60 card deck
Total chance 31.5430%
Historically the chances of diminishing returns working are about 70% (about 30% chance of failure)
I doubt the chances of me getting one burning wish and tons of gas are at 30% when compared to diminishing returns. Add to that I would be losing out on the 8% chance of drawing an infernal. I’m now a firm believer in four infernals main.
Hope this helps.
This is good data. I'll be adding it to page one.Quote:
Originally Posted by median
Question for you folks, couldn't find it in the thread. The single Shattering Spree in the board - do we just wish for it now or do we board it in?
Or does it depend..
Thanks.
I've never boarded it in unless I was running two.
--ABC
That's what I was thinking, too. Thanks :)
I'm taking this to a tournament tonight.
I'll have a report later.
You leave it in the board and wish for it. You have the bounce in the side board that you can bring in as a way to hate out artifacts post boardQuote:
Originally Posted by RaNDoMxGeSTuReS
Hey, guys. Long-time Aeon Bridge player, first-time TES player, so I still haven't gotten a full feel for the deck.
Came in at 9th, and note that my 75 is card for card the same as the list on the first page, except one REB replaced one Pyroblast. Which was a big mistake.
Matchups were: Faerie Stompy (Loss), Mono-Black control (Win), Bant (Loss), Countertop Bant (Win), Survival Retainers (Win), and Dredge (Win).
I did not run into Zoo or Merfolk, but I still wished that I had Xantids in my deck somewhere, and maybe a Doomsday plan in the board for Game 2.
I've been combing through the thread, and so far, I haven't found any Doomsday board lists. Is there anyone who has tried it, and if so, how has it been? I really want to give it a shot because I feel that against Countertop decks, that's the better choice than REB, and Xantid should deal with Merfolk and the like.
ROUND 1 (0-1) versus Neil (Faerie Stompy)
Game 1 was my first ever game playing the deck, and I was clearly showing my lack of experience. I chanted TWICE without having any relevant combo to win with, and only after Duress on turn 5 or so did I actually manage to cough up 10 tokens from ETW to win with.
Sided in some hate, then Game 2 came, and I went for the jugular on turn 3 with another ETW for 12. Unfortunately, he had firespout. He beat me with a Faerie and a 5/5 Faerie named Tombstalker.
Game 3, I was just completely controlled up the wazoo. Counters, faeries, Wastelands, you name it, he had it. It was an uphill battle, and I never had a chance.
ROUND 2 (1-1) versus (Mono-Black Control)
The guy's name slipped my mind, but he ran a black deck that frustrated the heck out of me.
Game 1, I lost to beats, Cabal Therapies, and more beats. It wasn't pretty.
Game 2, I lost Infernal Tutor to Extirpate, and then he even hit me with that pitch spell that makes me lose 4 and he gains 4. Twice. Despite that, I Ad Naus into goodness and win via a pinpoint-precision 28-life Tendrils of Agony.
Game 3, I managed to Ad Nauseam into goodness.
ROUND 3 (1-2) versus Paulo (Tempo Thresh or something)
Game 1, I managed to storm him out via Empty The Warrens.
Game 2, I found myself dead to Goyfs and Pridemages. And, oh, going for the jugular with a first-turn combo that was met with FOW. And, oh. I LED'd my hand away to pull it off.
Game 3, Two Goyfs had me at ten life, but they were 3/4's. Then he topdecks a Pridemage, destroys his own Jitte, and the 3/4's became 5/6's. That was game.
ROUND 4 (2-2) versus Ryan Payabyab (NO Countertop Bant)
Game 1, I storm out for exactly ten via some cantrip and Chant and Wish shenanigans. It was a pretty tight play.
Game 2, I did that first-turn combo out thing again, and promptly got FOW'd. With no cards in hand, I was a sitting duck. I then got locked out by Counterbalance and beating Goyfs by turn 2. No Top, but CB revealed FOW on top, and my only bomb in hand was Ad Naus. Fail.
Game 3, I managed to Ad Naus into goodness after Gripping his CB. That was all she wrote from there.
ROUND 5 (3-2), versus Redmond (Survival Retainers)
Game 1, Goblin tokens overrun his defenders.
Game 2, Ad Nauseam dismantles him.
ROUND 6 (4-2), versus Marco (Dredge)
Game 1, I cough up 12 tokens and overrun him. Zombies are bigger than Goblins, but they were fewer. Much, much fewer.
Game 2, I play Petal, Chrome Mox, Dark Ritual, Ad Nauseam. I'm down to 14, and I reveal the following in no particular order: LED, ETW, Burning Wish, Dark Ritual, Chrome Mox, Duress, Lotus Petal, Rite Of Flame, Duress. I play Petal, LED, Dark Ritual, Rite Of Flame, Burning Wish, Tendrils for exactly ten storm.
Finished in 9th. Not bad, considering this is the first time I ever ran the bloody deck.
Short report. I partcipated in a 10 person tournament tonight and made Top 4. I took Bryant's 75 for a spin with Deathmark in the Eye of Nowhere slot.
Match 1 - Mono Blue Merfolk
Game 1 - I win the die roll and plop out 12 goblin tokens. He has enough Mutavaults and fish to race me.
Game 2 - I mull to 6 and he has an answer for every card I play.
0-1
0-2
+3 Pyroblast
-1 Ponder
-1 Brainstorm
-1 Chrome Mox
Match 2 - 4c Countertop
Game 1 - I win the die roll and "tempt fate." He has Force of Will.
Game 2 -Ad Nauseam protected by Pyroblast. I stop at 1 life and Empty the Warrens for 24 tokens. 12 of them block a Dreadnaught, and I kill him two turns later.
Game 3 - He gets countertop online, but I have Krosan Grip sitting in my hand. I wait until I topdeck a third mana source, then blow it up at the end of his turn. Ad Nauseam into lethal tendrils.
+3 Pyroblast
+1 Wipe Away
+1 Krosan Grip
-1 Silence
-1 Infernal Tutor
-1 Chrome Mox
-1 Ponder
-1 Brainstorm
1-1
2-3
Match 3 - Mono Red Goblins
Game 1 - Turn 1 Empty the Warrens for 18 tokens. They get there.
Game 2 - I keep a zero land hand with something like Petal, Petal, LED, Infernal Tutor. The guy wonders why I haven't played a land for three turns. I Duress him and see nothing relevant. I kill him with lethal tendrils on turn 4.
+1 Chain of Vapor
+1 Echoing Truth
-1 Ponder
-1 Brainstorm
2-1
4-3
Match 4 - Bye, cut to Top 4
Semifinals - Burn
Game 1 - I mullligan to 6. I Brainstorm into shit, but have a turn 4 kill. He gets me turn 3.
Game 2 - Pretty sure I punted this, but I go all in on Empty the Warrens for 12 turn 1. He has Mindbreak Trap. Should have I waited on this? I could have Pondered on turn 1.
+1 Echoing Truth
+1 Chain of Vapor
-1 Ponder
-1 Brainstorm
Props
Orim's Chant being an allstar
Krosan Grip for having split-second
Empty the Warrens because I got to scream, "I"M PLAYING A GOBLIN MIRROR MATCH!" in the gameshop...
Slops
No prize for 4th place
Mindbreak Trap
Getting my ass kicked by burn in nearly every Legacy tournament I play in
I ended up 5-2 at Vestal this weekend for 20th. I was 5-1 going into round 7 but I couldn't draw.
Last Sunday 10th of October 2 TES decks made top 8 in the eternal weekend event in Alcobendas (Madrid, Spain), with an assistance of 293 players.
Alex del Valle - 3 color T.E.S.
Iņaki Puigdollers - 5 color T.E.S.
Very Brief report (actually just the pairings and results)
R1-Vengevie UG madness 1-0-0
R2-Naya Zoo 2-0-0
R3-Merfolk U 3-0-0
R4-Burn 4-0-0
R5-Naya Zoo (Splashing tropical island for Meddling Mage) 5-0-0
R6-Survival Elves RG (Magus and blood moon tech) 6-0-0
R7-BUG Threshold 6-0-1
R8-Merfolks UB (Saito) 7-0-1
R9-Vengevine WG (Intentional draw) 7-1-1
Ended 5th in the swiss rounds.
Greetings,
Iņaki.-
P.S.
link to the official coverage (in spanish): http://launiversidaddelasartesludica...d-2010_10.html
lnik to the non-official coverage (in english): http://www.eternal-central.com/?p=910
Why was this a mistake?Quote:
Originally Posted by mistervader
The situation where you want to cast an excess Pyroblast for Storm is much more likely than you wanting to not be Misdirected.Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketrae21
It's also a joke.
Well, I had the following cards in my hand in one particular game against Dredge:Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketrae21
1 REB
1 Dark Ritual
1 Rite Of Flame
1 Infernal Tutor
I had mana to cast all the relevant spells, get hellbent, and then cast Infernal Tutor for Ad Nauseam @19 life against Dredge. *Except* I was holding REB, not Pyroblast.
Of course, I lucksacked like a mofo and topdecked an LED the next turn, but hey, them's the breaks.
In other news, changes I really feel compelled to make for the deck...
Assuming I don't change my board, -1 City of Brass, +1 Tundra. This is because I would really like to fetch W at the drop of a hat for chanting purposes.
Assuming I do change my board, I'm tempted to go -2 CoB, +1 Tundra, +1 Tropical Island. However, even I can tell that's not terribly exciting and could cause more problems than it could solve.
As for the changes I wanna make in the board, I *really* want to keep Blasts, but I also want to have 2-3 Xantid Swarm in the side against Merfolk. Bant, Vengevine Survival, Merfolk, and Zoo are the four most common placing decks in my meta, and Swarm can help me with all four (Although admittedly on a marginal level against Zoo.), while Blast is *very* important against Counterbalance. If only I could ignore the CB matchup, but alack and alas, while there are more Merfolk decks in my meta, Bant is still a force to be reckoned with.
Or is it a Blast only/ Xantid only choice I have to make? I understand their functions overlap, but Pyroblast isn't as strong against Merfolk as Xantid is, and historically, that's the deck I'm more worried about in my meta.
For the record, I have not yet wished for Eye of Nowhere from the board, and Thoughtseize feels marginal as a Wish target, although I did run that play once in the first round when I was still getting a feel for the deck.
Any tips regarding the Xantid vs Pyroblast issue would be great. Sideboarding has always been my weakest suit in MTG.
Yeah, this is really the main reason to run Pyroblast over REB and I've actually had it come up quite often.Quote:
Originally Posted by mistervader
I actually find myself wishing for Thoughtseize quite often, so I'm not sure I would take that out. You could try Hull Breach as an alternative to Eye of Nowhere - it's mainly your answer to problematic enchantments like Leyline of Sanctity and nonsense like Pyrostatic Pillar.Quote:
Originally Posted by mistervader
I think the deck is too pressed for sideboard space to consider both options, but I could see and 3/2 split of them cutting some of the more marginal cards like Krosan Grip and Eye of Nowhere. It's really a metagame question of how much Counterbalance versus Merfolk/UG Madness you expect to see. The deck struggles against Counterbalance more than the other two, so if I didn't expect much of it at all, I would cut the blasts and maybe the Krosan Grip for Swarms and just hope to dodge it. Swarm is not particularly good against Bant, though. As for the manabase, you could possibly cut a Chrome Mox for a Tropical Island.
I'm looking forward to a more indepth report.Quote:
Originally Posted by egosum
I'm dealing with this right now myself.Quote:
Originally Posted by mistervader
the way i'm doing it is with this main,
1 silence
2 chant
1 pyroblast
And this in the side:
//side
1 flex slot
1 tropical island
3 xantid swarm
2 pyroblast
1 tendrils
1 empty the warrens
1 ill-gotten gains
1 eye of nowhere
1 shattering spree
1 diminishing returns
1 echoing truth
1 grapeshot
my boarding is pretty simple
counterbalance +2 pyroblast +1 e-truth
- 3 chant effects
against merfolk - 3 chant effects, +3 xantid swarm,
-1 city + 1 tropical
This lets me have xantid and pyroblast open to me as well as most wish targets, if I wanted to I could board in both pyroblast and xantid, and Echoing truth. I have no Idea what I would want that for. From my own personal experience Xantid swarm is better, but it really sucks when it gets STPed in the bant match, The way I have things set up now give me a lot of flexibility and some maindeck hate.
How are most people boarding against Counterbalance? I can only really find room for about ten, maybe eleven protection spells; the only cards I really want to cut are a Ponder and a Mox and like I'm not even really that happy when I board out either of those.
5c TES made it to top8 in recent Topdeck.ru Open (biggest russian legacy tournament ever) with 93 players. Decklist is fairly common afaik.
Bryant Here you have the report.
Greetings,
Iņaki.-
I generally have 4+ pieces of Counterbalance hate. I normally swap out chants for pyroblast, but if I'm worried I'll cut a ponder and keep one in, if it's a deck that doesn't play wasteland, I'll cut a chrome mox for a chant effect. I never side out I'll-gotten gains against counterbalance because I don't have it main. If I did it would come out as I see it as a liability in this match.Quote:
Originally Posted by frogboy
That's my own personal strategy.
yeah, that actually makes a lot of sense...Quote:
Originally Posted by median
I've been testing matchups with TES a lot lately, using Bryant's GP list.
Especially against the blue decks (Supreme Blue, Merfolk, UG-Vengevine-Survival) because they are beeing played heavily in my region currently.
While I have:
-a quite positive result versus UG Vengevine-Survival (3:7 preboard and 4:6 postboard in TES's favour)
-and quite good results versus Supreme Blue (5:5 pre -and postboard; almost only losing when they manage to get an early Counterbalance into play)
-I have major problems versus Merfok (6:4 preboard and 7:3 postboard in merfolk's favour).
For the merfolk matchup I was using Saito's UB list. Since I was reading a lot about merfolk being a good matchup (better than the counterbalance matchup) I wanted to ask for some tips.
Granted I am not the most experienced TES-player (or Storm-Combo in general) I have some experience with playing TES (the older Draw-4 lists), ANT and a bit of DDFT.
My major problems in the matchup are:
-Their Daze-effects (Daze, Cursecatcher, Spell Pierce) combined with their Wastelands became a huge threat. I am often one mana short of going off, especially if they have multiple of those effects. Waiting for more accelerations is often no option because of their clock and possibility to draw more Wastelands.
-The first issue often leads to situations where I have to go off without being able to play enough protection running into their FoWs.
-FoW is almost always active (which means it's easy to get second blue card into hand to actually be able to cast FoW). Standstill with an active clock helps them a lot, too.
-It's hard to predict what they might have in their hand. Not the best example because it doesn't involve the information you can draw out of the game's progress but basically a single blue land and a hand of 4 cards could basically mean that they are able to play Spell Pierce, Daze and Force of Will altogether easily.
Does anyone with more experience have any tips for me?
Is it better to go "All In" after a protection spell gets countered (I do this a lot against Counterbalance decks, because it feels easier to predict what they have in their hand for me). I tend to play more defensive against Merfolk.
Thanks in Advance
(I have also tried Xantid Swarm which is quite good against Merfolk. Of course the Black-Splash list has ways to handle my swarms more easily than mono-blue lists. But in general Xantid Swarm feels just not good enough in other matchups)
I always like going for Empty the Warrens in the match. Preemptively Wishing for it helps a lot. I've never had a bunch of trouble doing that, If you have a lot of Rituals in your hand and aren't depending on LED to win. Try it out, I've had quite a bit of success with this strategy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zunam
Yeah, I'll do that too. They often don't counter the Burning Wish when we don't have mana for whatever reason, thinking we're just going to get Thoughtseize. EtW can usually outrace them - Pyroblast killing a lord can help a lot, forcing their Silvergill Adepts and Cursecatchers to trade with your goblins. Another common play that I find helpful is a preemptive Infernal Tutor for a Lion's Eye Diamond or ritual, especially after ripping a FoW out of their hand. With FoW being their only hard counter, often all you need is extra mana to pay for their taxing counters. If your protection spell gets countered, it depends a lot on the situation whether you should go for it or not. If it gets countered by FoW and you have an extra mana or two, then I think you should usually go for it (depending on cards in hand, Cursecatchers on board, of course), but you otherwise probably want some knowledge of their hand first.Quote:
Originally Posted by lorddotm
This matchup gets a lot better, I think, if you're either playing Xantid Swarms or playing a 3 color list with basics. I don't understand why so many players seem to think this matchup is positive without either of those - I, for one, have not figured out the secret. I think it may be because Merfolk is such a popular deck so there are so many subpar Merfolk players and Merfolk lists running around. That, and it just seems like there's a natural tendency for everyone to underestimate Merfolk (myself included).
@maxflow2: Merfolk player usually don't understand what to do against us. Also, it seems like going for a fast win, even when you don't know what they have, it optimal. There is only a 40% chance of them having a Force on turn 1, so going for the turn 1 win is usually correct because you do not have a 60% win chance. But if you have a turn 2 win with protection, obviously that is better. Against blue it is about picking your moments when to go off
I looked back in the thread, and it seems like this list went completely unnoticed.
Milan (Ovino 5) 11.09.2010
- 347 players
3. Federico Bonadč
Maindeck (60):
Spells (45):
3 Chrome Mox
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
2 Ad Nauseam
4 Dark Ritual
4 Duress
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
3 Infernal Tutor
1 Tendrils of Agony
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Burning Wish
4 Rite of Flame
3 Orim's Chant
Lands (15):
1 Bloodstained Mire
2 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
4 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
Sideboard (15):
3 Carpet of Flowers
2 Chain of Vapor
1 Diminishing Returns
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Flame Slash
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
1 Infernal Tutor
2 Krosan Grip
1 Shattering Spree
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Thoughtseize
The fact is has two Ad Nauseam, Iggy main, no EtW main, 15 lands. As well as having a 3/1 split between main and board on IT. The list looks very suboptimal, but it did well in a large event...
Any opinions on this?
Thank's for the tips on the Merfolk matchup.
I tried going the EtW route (getting EtW into my hand before going off) more often and it worked out well. I guess I was a bit too anxious using EtW in this matchup but it seems that they more often can't handle the tokens than they can summon a big enough army of blockers in time.
Running a 3 colour list as suggested might also be an option if the Meta is full of Merfolk.
@lorddotm: hi, i'm the guy from italy who played the deck at that event :)
A premise: before june bannigs i was a ANT player (i finish 15th at GP Madrid losing the last turn of swiss) and went to TES in my search for a viable post mystical ban storm deck. So my style of play with this deck is closer to ANT or fetchland tendrils than pre Ad Nauseam TES.
I basically pick Cook's list and made some little changes to fit my game style and italian metagame:
+1 AN -1 ETW because 5 dmg or 4 dmg don't make so much difference while resolving AN and i'm always happier to draw AN than EtW. In my opinion 1 EtW in sideboard is enough to kill my opponent with goblins.
-1 mox -1 orim +2 Lands I really *hate* losing for mana screw... in Italy prison and tempo deck are always big forces in the meta so i choose to have a little more solid mana base.
-1 Infernal Tutor +1 Iggy : being a iggy player before becoming a ANT player (and now a TES player) i just can't play without this little friend maindeck. I understand the deck can work even without it but i simply feel safer with 2 iggy among maindeck and sideboard.
And sorry for my english .. that is very suboptimal :p
I saw your list on Morphling earlier. I happen to be a fan of maindeck Iggy as well (though I disagree with removing Infernal) - it just cements the matchup against aggro so much and it isn't half bad G1 against blue either when they don't know what you're playing. Even though you only really want it in your best matchups, I feel the percentage gained there is large enough to justify having it maindeck (though it is difficult to fit).Quote:
Originally Posted by Seretur
You mention that the 5 cmc of AN over EtW isn't a big deal - but combined with the 4 cmc of Iggy over Infernal, it kinda is, though. This is further accentuated by the removal of a Chrome Mox - I'm curious if you've had any trouble fizzling after AN with no mana/land drops remaining.
This is the link to the report of the other TES player that made top 8 at Eternal Weekend, it' s written in spanish.
Greetings,
Iņaki.-
/ / LandsQuote:
Originally Posted by egosum
4 [TSB] Gemstone Mine
2 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
2 [ON] Polluted Delta
2 [ON] Bloodstained Look
2 [A] Underground Sea
1 [A] Volcanic Island
1 [A] Badlands
/ / Spells
4 [MM] Dark Ritual
4 [MI] Lion's Eye Diamond
4 [TO] Cabal Ritual
3 [CS] Rite of Flame
2 [MR] Chrome Mox
1 [SH] Mox Diamond
4 [TE] Lotus Petal
4 [LRW] Ponder
4 [FNM] Brainstorm
3 [DIS] Infernal Tutor
4 [JU] Burning Wish
4 [AER] Duress
1 [LRW] Thoughtseize
1 [U.S.] Ill-Gotten Gains
1 [SC] Tendrils of Agony
1 [ALA] Ad Nauseam
1 [TSP] Empty the Warrens
/ / Sideboard
SB: 1 [LRW] Thoughtseize
SB: 1 [U.S.] Ill-Gotten Gains
SB: 1 [SC] Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 [DIS] Infernal Tutor
SB: 1 [TSP] Grapeshot
SB: 1 [PT] Symbol of Unsummoning
SB: 1 [TSP] Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 [GP] Shattering Spree
SB: 3 [IA] Pyroblast
SB: 1 [10E] Pyroclasm
SB: 3 [RAV] Dark Confidant
That is his list. How does this beat blue?
You hold back Duress effects until you actually need them. It's a lesson that a lot of TES players could learn, even the ones that run Chants or a lot of Thoughtseize.
It's the number 1 advice I always gie to new TES player : it's not because you can go fast that your must be in a hurry.
Evaluate the game state, evaluate your possibilities, make a decision
I have a doubt, When you have a duress in your hand and you are playing vs blue, what's better?
a) Waiting the turn that you are going to play the combo
b) Playing duress when you can (for example in your fist turn but your opponent has a tropical island in play and you are going to play ad nauseam later)
If you play dures one turn before playing ad naseam or some tutor your opponnent can put the counters on top of his library with brainstorm, but If we dont play duress fast may be that he plays a counterbalance. When is the correct moment for playing duress vs blue dcks?
Depends on the blue deck. If you don't have an answer to a resolved Counterbalance in your hand, Duress ASAP to try to nab it. If they don't play Counterbalance, you don't need to Duress right away. Duressing turn 1 isn't the greatest when you don't plan to go off for another few turns.Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwi
Look at your hand and figure out how you plan to go off. Duressing the turn you plan to go off is obviously the most optimal. If you have enough mana, do it. If you're forced to go off next turn (say lethal on board vs Fish), but don't have the mana to cast Duress + Returns or something in the same turn, Duress the turn before.
I rarely use Duress on turn 1 vs. non-CB blue decks if I don't plan on winning turn 2. Even letting Standstill resolve isn't a big deal. Playing draw-go and breaking it EOT with a Brainstorm the turn before you go off is generally fine.
I've been considering a Simplify or Maelstrom Pulse in the sideboard to beat rawdog Counterbalance. If they just have Counterbalance, it's usually not the end of the world, but it can buy them enough time to find Brainstorm/Top/Jace which are all pretty hard to beat.