[Deck] 12 Post

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Originally Posted by zahori

You know, I have really appreciated how much you have done for the community behind this deck, as well as admired the many builds you have shared with us. Yet, I'm fairly disappointed that you simply watched me play wrong and chose to leave instead of sharing what you would have done. I'll keep on streaming and posting videos of my face palming strategies, and I welcome everyone to shred them to pieces. My goal is not to maximize my viewers, it's to try and get better by showing what I do and hopefully open conversation about how others would have played the hands I am dealt.

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I watched this video, and here are some suggestions:
1. In response to Liliana of the Veil's first discard, I would have used Brainstorm to find the best possible card to discard. However, Show and tell looked to be the right choice in that situation because you didn't have a Titan to Show and Tell in, although I might have discarded the Glacial Chasm instead if I'd seen it with Brainstorm.
2. I'm not a big fan of neglecting Glimmerpost. I think you should have kept it and used it game 1.
3. Always assume Wasteland, even if you don't see it game 1 unless you're playing against combo.
4. When you Crop Rotate your Karakas away game 2, that was a right move, but that was the wrong time. Crop Rotation is an instant. There are two times you activate it: 1. In response to your land being destroyed or 2. End of their turn.
5. Show and Tell is not for Legendary Eldrazi unless you are desperate, which honestly, you weren't. Digging to cast Kozilek would have reversed the Hymn's damage. Granted it worked, but it working in that case does not entail that it's a good move. I.E. if he'd had the Liliana before you swung with Kozilek, you'd gotten no benefit from Show and Tell.

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Originally Posted by Mockingbird

I watched this video, and here are some suggestions:
1. In response to Liliana of the Veil's first discard, I would have used Brainstorm to find the best possible card to discard. However, Show and tell looked to be the right choice in that situation because you didn't have a Titan to Show and Tell in, although I might have discarded the Glacial Chasm instead if I'd seen it with Brainstorm.
2. I'm not a big fan of neglecting Glimmerpost. I think you should have kept it and used it game 1.
3. Always assume Wasteland, even if you don't see it game 1 unless you're playing against combo.
4. When you Crop Rotate your Karakas away game 2, that was a right move, but that was the wrong time. Crop Rotation is an instant. There are two times you activate it: 1. In response to your land being destroyed or 2. End of their turn.
5. Show and Tell is not for Legendary Eldrazi unless you are desperate, which honestly, you weren't. Digging to cast Kozilek would have reversed the Hymn's damage. Granted it worked, but it working in that case does not entail that it's a good move. I.E. if he'd had the Liliana before you swung with Kozilek, you'd gotten no benefit from Show and Tell.

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Hold on a moment while I gasp outwardly. Mockingbird isn't trolling and actually giving good advice?

I saw a few of these, but more subtle plays are where the devil is really in with this deck. Optimizing opportunities to draw certain cards, or look with top. Doing things like not mapping for cloudpost and playing it with 3 mana in play and 2 pithing needles on wasteland against their non-pressure.

Don't take my poking negatively. If I was disgusted or intent on jeering, then I wouldn't have posted at all. I am excited people are gaining experience with the deck, and was reminded that the learning curve for the deck is significant.

Just to clarify, I'm not offended, I just want to have discussion about actual game situations. I set up the jund clip this morning, but I'd like to rematch it before replying with my thought process. That said, I do remember the brainstorm vs, show and tell discard. My goal with that decision was to set up the bonfire in my hand with the brainstorm, which is the line of play I followed. I did not value the show and tell at the time since Lilliana was already in play.


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the wife is working tonight and i will have my daughter(so it may get interrupted). but i am going to try to stream a couple matches sometime between 8 and 9 pm, est time. http://www.twitch.tv/dneeley

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Originally Posted by NEELEY

the wife is working tonight and i will have my daughter(so it may get interrupted). but i am going to try to stream a couple matches sometime between 8 and 9 pm, est time. http://www.twitch.tv/dneeley

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Try to record it. I'm not going to be able to make it.

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Originally Posted by Mockingbird

Try to record it. I'm not going to be able to make it.

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if i can figure it out, i will :)

Twitch automatically records the stream, afterwards you can make highlights from the channel's dashboard.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by zahori

Twitch automatically records the stream, afterwards you can make highlights from the channel's dashboard.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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Actually I remember getting an email from Twitch that they were turning the automatic recording off and that you have to turn it on.
Edit: Go to settings and then down to "Archive Broadcasts" and then turn "Automatically archive my broadcasts" on :)

Also, been following this thread for a few weeks...went back and slowly read it from page 1 to the current page on my lunches/after work. Currently assembling the deck, just need a few more pieces and I've got Rock Lee's latest list (I'll pick up the commander card at my LGS this FNM hopefully). Looking forward to starting to jam this deck to learn the nuances...I know it will take a while to master...so I'm considering grabbing the cards on Modo too so I can get some easier/more broad practice in.

Rock, I presume you cut a Trinket Mage to move the 4th S&T into the main? Were you also suggesting moving Bane into the main? Curious what you would cut from there.

I can't remember if there was discussion over the numbers on Bonfire, so forgive me if there was - but how does the 3 feel? Have you ever felt like you would draw it enough at 2? I assume you've tested the different configurations on the #s and came to the conclusion that 3 was optimal...just asking because it might be a slot to cut 1 to make room for another pithing needle in a Wasteland heavier meta.

Cheers! Really appreciate all the work in this thread :)

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Originally Posted by Mockingbird

I watched this video, and here are some suggestions:
1. In response to Liliana of the Veil's first discard, I would have used Brainstorm to find the best possible card to discard. However, Show and tell looked to be the right choice in that situation because you didn't have a Titan to Show and Tell in, although I might have discarded the Glacial Chasm instead if I'd seen it with Brainstorm.
2. I'm not a big fan of neglecting Glimmerpost. I think you should have kept it and used it game 1.
3. Always assume Wasteland, even if you don't see it game 1 unless you're playing against combo.
4. When you Crop Rotate your Karakas away game 2, that was a right move, but that was the wrong time. Crop Rotation is an instant. There are two times you activate it: 1. In response to your land being destroyed or 2. End of their turn.
5. Show and Tell is not for Legendary Eldrazi unless you are desperate, which honestly, you weren't. Digging to cast Kozilek would have reversed the Hymn's damage. Granted it worked, but it working in that case does not entail that it's a good move. I.E. if he'd had the Liliana before you swung with Kozilek, you'd gotten no benefit from Show and Tell.

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1. I definitely wanted to capitalize on the brainstorm-->bonfire of the damned to wipe out liliana and potentially his board.
2. Definitely should have kept Glimmerpost over crop, that was just a misplay on my part for sure.
3. Fair enough.
4. Here was my reasoning for breaking a pretty decent rule of thumb: I needed to both shuffle away the top 3 cards of my library AND cast a main phase brainstorm so that I could attempt to hit my 3rd land drop. Crop rotation was my means to doing that, if I do it end of turn then I lose the opportunity to make my land drop that turn. I think that this is worth the risk of him having the 2nd wasteland.
5. I disagree with your assessment here. Opponent clearly did not have liliana in hand, since they would have surely cast it by now. S&T the Kozilek there gave them a one turn window to find an answer. I much prefer placing my opponent on a one turn clock than allowing them to come back in the game. My board was superior to theirs since I would have 2 cloudposts and top in play, IMO, but I still want to make them have an answer. Even if they drew the liliana, it would have been at one loyalty post edict, and I would have felt I had sufficient time to sculpt a winning position post that with the top.

I'll definitely keep streaming/posting videos, so feel welcome to critique away.

going live with 12 post in 10 min . http://www.twitch.tv/dneeley

Progenifish is making me test ditching bonfire. Despite it being incredible, merfolk always gave the deck issues in the past, and its recent resurgence doesn't help any. Only real choice I'm making now is running Ostone or All is Dust, with me leaning heavily on OStone.

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Originally Posted by Rock Lee

Progenifish is making me test ditching bonfire. Despite it being incredible, merfolk always gave the deck issues in the past, and its recent resurgence doesn't help any. Only real choice I'm making now is running Ostone or All is Dust, with me leaning heavily on OStone.

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How high is Merfolk in your area? Would running The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale in the main deck be worth the risk?

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Originally Posted by Rock Lee

Progenifish is making me test ditching bonfire. Despite it being incredible, merfolk always gave the deck issues in the past, and its recent resurgence doesn't help any. Only real choice I'm making now is running Ostone or All is Dust, with me leaning heavily on OStone.

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It's miserable. Force of will, forest, and moments peace do a lot of work for less commitment, but o stone may be needed ..

going to stream 12 post in about 10 min http://www.twitch.tv/dneeley

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Originally Posted by TimHarding

It's miserable. Force of will, forest, and moments peace do a lot of work for less commitment, but o stone may be needed ..

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Problem is, can't run moment's peace as a holistic answer because deathrite eats it. So a sweeper or Elephant grass are prolly best. Drop of honey isn't terrible either.

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Originally Posted by Mockingbird

How high is Merfolk in your area? Would running The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale in the main deck be worth the risk?

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Not high, but esper, u/w, and miracles are all picking up progenifish.

I'm not playing that much lately, but is this new 3/1 really an issue for us? I'd be much more worried looking at an opposing geist of saint traft, same cc and deals double the damage this new merfolk does. Sure, it cannot be blocked and together with a random equip can be deadly, but is it enough to turn very good matchups like esperblade into a nightmare?
Now, merfolk.deck is another thing of course. It has always been a quite bad matchup, and the idea of facing it more often isn't very appealing. Tbh i found Drop of Honey too slow to stop their horde of lords, you risk to suffer 6 or so dmg per turn anyway. Maybe it's time to fill again our sb with good ol' sweepers.

my connection is slow but i managed to have my videos recorded last night and they are on my http://www.twitch.tv/dneeley.

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Originally Posted by Davek

I'm not playing that much lately, but is this new 3/1 really an issue for us? I'd be much more worried looking at an opposing geist of saint traft, same cc and deals double the damage this new merfolk does. Sure, it cannot be blocked and together with a random equip can be deadly, but is it enough to turn very good matchups like esperblade into a nightmare?
Now, merfolk.deck is another thing of course. It has always been a quite bad matchup, and the idea of facing it more often isn't very appealing. Tbh i found Drop of Honey too slow to stop their horde of lords, you risk to suffer 6 or so dmg per turn anyway. Maybe it's time to fill again our sb with good ol' sweepers.

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True-Identity Nemesis alone is not as a serious problem as it is in a Merfolk Tribal deck. But it's still a problem because it can't be held back by Repeal, it won't trade with Trinket Mage or die in to a Titan of any form (which is a problem if its been pecking at you with its 3 power for awhile or carrying an equipment as you mentioned), and most importantly, it completely undermines the purpose of splashing red for Bonfire of the Damned because what good is a board wipe that can't hit your opponent's biggest threat? It might as well be Banefire if we're just going to save it to burn out our opponent.

Point is, everyone has to deal with "Progenifish". Right now, our best answers are our old answers: Oblivion Stone and/or All is Dust.

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Originally Posted by Davek

I'm not playing that much lately, but is this new 3/1 really an issue for us? I'd be much more worried looking at an opposing geist of saint traft, same cc and deals double the damage this new merfolk does. Sure, it cannot be blocked and together with a random equip can be deadly, but is it enough to turn very good matchups like esperblade into a nightmare?
Now, merfolk.deck is another thing of course. It has always been a quite bad matchup, and the idea of facing it more often isn't very appealing. Tbh i found Drop of Honey too slow to stop their horde of lords, you risk to suffer 6 or so dmg per turn anyway. Maybe it's time to fill again our sb with good ol' sweepers.

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What mockingbird said is entirely accurate. The TNN isn't itself a problem, it is the encouragement of the archetype Merfolk that its printing implies. Merfolk was always the most terrifying Aggro matchup. It was beatable, but at the time when it was a meta force, I ran Needles, all is dusts, show and tells, AND propagandas in the side.

I actually think merfolk is going to be a top tier deck again, with a way to close a long game with tnn. so i beleive o stone is a better option especially if you stall on mana it's hard to get to 7 mana to cast all is dust.

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Originally Posted by NEELEY

I actually think merfolk is going to be a top tier deck again, with a way to close a long game with tnn. so i beleive o stone is a better option especially if you stall on mana it's hard to get to 7 mana to cast all is dust.

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The heavy colorless plan is also pretty strong against Merfolk. Upping the right cards to see candles stones and kozileks much more often and early..

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Originally Posted by TimHarding

The heavy colorless plan is also pretty strong against Merfolk. Upping the right cards to see candles stones and kozileks much more often and early..

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Do you mean upping Candles/O-Stones/Kozileks themselves or upping the cards that dig for them, like adding more cantrips/search like Ancient Stirrings, Ponder, or Intuition?

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Originally Posted by TimHarding

The heavy colorless plan is also pretty strong against Merfolk. Upping the right cards to see candles stones and kozileks much more often and early..

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Would going back to some of the older builds, like when Rock used to run Devastation Tide, also be more useful?

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Originally Posted by Zotmaster

Would going back to some of the older builds, like when Rock used to run Devastation Tide, also be more useful?

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I've resorted to this because my meta is full of awful Goblins, DNT and general aggro, and the mana situation isnt always stable enough to run Bonfire. Since no one sees it coming, they overextend their board while under a Chasm lock, and I can use top to flip Devastation Tide to reset the board and force them to discard 10 gobbos.

Also, theres a lot of joy in chaining Temporal Masteries:)

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Originally Posted by Zotmaster

Would going back to some of the older builds, like when Rock used to run Devastation Tide, also be more useful?

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That could work for some metas, but mine is more combo driven. And Ostone is at least relevant against most decks. But yeah older build makes sense, Neeley's invitational list would be a great example of a blast from the last that has come full circle. I prefer UG needle stone overall, it fits my play style.

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Originally Posted by Mockingbird

Do you mean upping Candles/O-Stones/Kozileks themselves or upping the cards that dig for them, like adding more cantrips/search like Ancient Stirrings, Ponder, or Intuition?

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I haven't had much luck adding cantrips to the list, but playing the full 12 posts, more candles/maps, and o stone instead. Most importantly- more needles - which affords you the ability to play cloudposts in earlier turns, and have those explosive hands. Recently more blue and green cards have kept my list more conservative and slow, and I've missed often having some hands which play out like GP, Top/Candle> CP > CP, Ostone/Map > Vesuva, Eldrazi. This has all been done before, but those hands I definitely want to see more of if aggro is in the format, they take the strain off of SnT.

I currently play with 2 Trinket Mages, and as such I'm looking rather fondly at Engineered Explosives over Oblivion Stones. Has any analysis been done on this?

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Originally Posted by maeltne

I currently play with 2 Trinket Mages, and as such I'm looking rather fondly at Engineered Explosives over Oblivion Stones. Has any analysis been done on this?

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It depends almost entirely on which hate/aggressive deck you're expecting; remember that OStone can race Show and Tell by killing all their relevant threats on the board, be it Omniscience, Sneak attack or Emrakul.

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Originally Posted by maeltne

I currently play with 2 Trinket Mages, and as such I'm looking rather fondly at Engineered Explosives over Oblivion Stones. Has any analysis been done on this?

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I'm always on the fence with this one, too. With mages it becomes much better for sure. Ill need to try it again because it's attrative in theory and O Stone has been better in practice.


Also, I tested the New Merfolk and I found that shielding chasm with Needles is actually enough most of the time. O stones can seal it off. Max needles, show and tell, and Map for Chasm.

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Originally Posted by TimHarding

The heavy colorless plan is also pretty strong against Merfolk. Upping the right cards to see candles stones and kozileks much more often and early..

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Yep. I've been playing monogreen with about 80% colorless for a few years now, and Merfolk is generally a favorable matchup. Adding a 3/1 doesn't change anything (and might make it even better, depending on what they cut for TNN). With a heavier focus on ramp, Daze/Spell Pierce is mostly irrelevant, and All Is Dust becomes very reliable (and can be found with Ancient Stirrings). Maindeck Tabernacle is also solid here, especially with the full 4x of Ancient Stirrings, Map, and Crop Rotation.

I was toying around w/ sneak show for the past couple of days and the more I played it, the more I realized that it was just a faster, but less consistent version of this deck. The sol-lands often turned out to be faster versions of the posts, but in longer grindier games, I kind of just wanted a more stable mana-base with sdt's. I then just tried adapting sneak-show into the post shell and ended up with monstrosity. It's a lot more combo oriented than the lists that have been posted here, but its nice in that it just overloads opposing counterspells since all of your combo pieces are castable.

Creatures (8)
4x Primeval Titan
3x Emrakul
1x Ulamog

Spells (26)
4x Sensei's Divining Top
4x Brainstorm
4x Ponder
4x Show and Tell
4x Sneak Attack
4x Crop Rotation
2x Candelabra of Tawnos

Lands (26)
4x Cloudpost
4x Glimmerpost
2x Vesuva
4x Scalding Tarn
4x Misty Rainforest
3x Volcanic Island
3x Tropical Island
1x Eye of Ugin
1x Glacial Chasm

Sneak attack-> primeval is pretty disgustingly backbreaking. Its fairly close to some of rocklee's first rug variants with through the breach mb'd. I think repeals might fit in here instead of the ponders or some of the crop rotations (since I'm a lot more all in on the combo plan) and something for 2 maindecked bonfires might be worthwhile. I could also see some slots taken out for a couple of blue cards and fow as well. Just a rough draft but something to think about.

I tested the deck some more and it plays a lot faster than traditional post, while a couple of turns slower than traditional sneak show. I'm actually down to 0 vesuvas and 2 crop rotations atm. The reason is that plan 1 is just to show/sneak something degenerate into play and ride that to victory (I'm also running less land tutors so vesuva isn't copying cloudpost very reliably and was just sitting in hand or copying a volc/trop). If that doesnt work, then you can assemble the posts/6 mana to hardcast titan. I added 4 repeals to the main to help the delver/aggro matchups as well as doing fun shennanigans vs more controlly decks. Ulamog just became the 4th emrakul because repeal takes care of random permanents well enough and ulamog is strictly worse than emmy off of sneak or show. Candles as a 2 of have been good because with just 1 cloudpost and 1-2 glimmerposts, you can accelerate yourself out of pierce/daze range or get the GG/RR for titan/sneak->activate. Here's the current md:

Creatures (8)
4x Primeval Titan
4x Emrakul

Spells (28)
4x Sensei's Divining Top
4x Brainstorm
4x Ponder
4x Show and Tell
4x Sneak Attack
4x Repeal
2x Crop Rotation
2x Candelabra of Tawnos

Lands (24)
4x Cloudpost
4x Glimmerpost
4x Scalding Tarn
4x Misty Rainforest
3x Volcanic Island
3x Tropical Island
1x Eye of Ugin
1x Glacial Chasm

Current SB:
2x City of Solitude
4x Force of Will
4x Swan Song
2x Red Elemental Blast
2x Pyroclasm
1x Karakas

Sb is still a work in progress, but taking a lil bit more from the sneak-show playbook with city of solitude replacing defense grid. Pyroclasm is there to wreck weenie aggro decks like goblins, dnt, and does some work versus an early merfolk board state. Traditional 8 counter suite for the combo matchups, with an extra 2 reb's versus the omni/delver matchups. Singleton karakas is there to find with prime time/rotation in the the show mirror match. This could be moved to the mb, but my blue land count is already quite low (14).

So, as I've mentioned in this thread, I'm missing the big money cards for the deck (no Revised duals that tap for blue mana, no Candelabra, no Tabernacle). I've been playing it in weekly tournaments, and I've also been losing: a lot. Losing three life to go from Zendikar Fetch to Ravnica Shock is very painful in Legacy. Having to run stuff into counters is painful. Not being able to have the big explosive turns that something like a Candelabra provides is, again, painful. I was browsing online and found NM Trops for about $80 and NM Candelabras for $235. I know those are good prices for both cards...but I just couldn't pull the trigger. Maybe I will eventually, but that day is not today and it probably isn't tomorrow. I'd love to be able to just throw a grand down to finish the deck, but I just can't.

Then I realized I was taking the wrong approach. Basically, I was trying to build half-assed (or maybe three-quarters-assed at best) versions of what Rock Lee was running. Budget substitutes only get you so far, and clearly I wasn't going far enough. If I didn't just get pounded into the dirt, I was running into the problem of having to cast multiple threats just to get one to stick, and quite frequently it resulted in me being dead a turn or two before I could take over, even when I ran Boseiju and Miracles. Anyway, long story short, I took the deck apart and rebuilt it from a new angle. The deck still needs to be tweaked a bit, but it has a much less half-assed gameplan. I didn't get to play it in a tournament today, and I don't have the luxury of being able to just privately test it against everything that's run in Legacy, but I played a good dozen games versus U/R Burn/Delver and RUG Delver and won all but three, with two of those losses coming on keeping one-land hands after mulliganing to five and not table shuffling because I was lazy.

If there's any interest, here's the current 75:



// Artifacts
3 Pithing Needle
3 Oblivion Stone
3 Expedition Map
4 Sensei's Divining Top

// Creatures
4 Thragtusk
4 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
2 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Primeval Titan

// Instants
4 Crop Rotation

// Sorceries
1 All is Dust

// Lands
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Karakas
5 Forest
4 Glimmerpost
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Bojuka Bog
4 Vesuva
4 Cloudpost
4 Cavern of Souls

// Sideboard
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Elephant Grass
3 Chalice of the Void
4 Mindbreak Trap
2 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 Bane of Progress



I'm reasonably certain that monogreen's potential is still lower than what others are running, but it definitely beats what I was previously doing.

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Originally Posted by Zotmaster

So, as I've mentioned in this thread, I'm missing the big money cards for the deck (no Revised duals that tap for blue mana, no Candelabra, no Tabernacle). I've been playing it in weekly tournaments, and I've also been losing: a lot. Losing three life to go from Zendikar Fetch to Ravnica Shock is very painful in Legacy. Having to run stuff into counters is painful. Not being able to have the big explosive turns that something like a Candelabra provides is, again, painful. I was browsing online and found NM Trops for about $80 and NM Candelabras for $235. I know those are good prices for both cards...but I just couldn't pull the trigger. Maybe I will eventually, but that day is not today and it probably isn't tomorrow. I'd love to be able to just throw a grand down to finish the deck, but I just can't.

Then I realized I was taking the wrong approach. Basically, I was trying to build half-assed (or maybe three-quarters-assed at best) versions of what Rock Lee was running. Budget substitutes only get you so far, and clearly I wasn't going far enough. If I didn't just get pounded into the dirt, I was running into the problem of having to cast multiple threats just to get one to stick, and quite frequently it resulted in me being dead a turn or two before I could take over, even when I ran Boseiju and Miracles. Anyway, long story short, I took the deck apart and rebuilt it from a new angle. The deck still needs to be tweaked a bit, but it has a much less half-assed gameplan. I didn't get to play it in a tournament today, and I don't have the luxury of being able to just privately test it against everything that's run in Legacy, but I played a good dozen games versus U/R Burn/Delver and RUG Delver and won all but three, with two of those losses coming on keeping one-land hands after mulliganing to five and not table shuffling because I was lazy.

If there's any interest, here's the current 75:



// Artifacts
3 Pithing Needle
3 Oblivion Stone
3 Expedition Map
4 Sensei's Divining Top

// Creatures
4 Thragtusk
4 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
2 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Primeval Titan

// Instants
4 Crop Rotation

// Sorceries
1 All is Dust

// Lands
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Karakas
5 Forest
4 Glimmerpost
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Bojuka Bog
4 Vesuva
4 Cloudpost
4 Cavern of Souls

// Sideboard
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Elephant Grass
3 Chalice of the Void
4 Mindbreak Trap
2 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 Bane of Progress



I'm reasonably certain that monogreen's potential is still lower than what others are running, but it definitely beats what I was previously doing.

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Funny you mention the monogreen, because I am testing a larger red splash than just bonfire, with the sneak attacks that a previous poster mentioned, somethingsomethingdot and am loving it. :D

List pending. Likely bringing it to the GP.

I'm curious as to what you're testing now Rock Lee. My testing ended with me very frustrated at the delver matchup--the manabase is just disgustingly susceptible to wasteland/stifle blowouts. I might have tried pushing the list too combo-y and lost too many of the control elements though.

It really sounds like you people want be playing Sneak and Show instead of this.
You are playing the most inevitable deck in the format. Shouldn't your goal be to survive until the casting of unlimited Emrakuls instead of being a worse Sneak and Show?

I actually really like somethingdotdotdot's list, I had been testing something similar when I fiddled with the deck before. The manabase gives the inevitability that traditional sneak/show and reanimator didn't have. However, without the ability to interfere with opposing spells, bad things could happen. I'm not going to say what bad things, but bad things may happen.

Was digging through on gatherer to find something to help hose the delver decks and saw meekstone. It could be useful since most of our guys win with a single swing (or at least pretty close to winning) and it turns delver/goyf into a burn spell for a single colorless mana. Might merit some testing in the board at least. What meekstone doesn't stop can be handled with pyroclasm/bonfire quite easily.

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Originally Posted by somethingdotdotdot

Was digging through on gatherer to find something to help hose the delver decks and saw meekstone. It could be useful since most of our guys win with a single swing (or at least pretty close to winning) and it turns delver/goyf into a burn spell for a single colorless mana. Might merit some testing in the board at least. What meekstone doesn't stop can be handled with pyroclasm/bonfire quite easily.

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Apparently Repeal, Show and Tell, Pithing Needle, Oblivion Stone and Elephant Grass are out of question.
This thread used to be sort of classy and focused, now it's borderline retarded.

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Originally Posted by somethingdotdotdot

I'm curious as to what you're testing now Rock Lee. My testing ended with me very frustrated at the delver matchup--the manabase is just disgustingly susceptible to wasteland/stifle blowouts. I might have tried pushing the list too combo-y and lost too many of the control elements though.

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Bonfire

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Originally Posted by Hopo

Apparently Repeal, Show and Tell, Pithing Needle, Oblivion Stone and Elephant Grass are out of question.
This thread used to be sort of classy and focused, now it's borderline retarded.

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Theyre not out of the question, theyre just not enough at times. Pithing needle doesn't stop delver; elephant grass is a good sb card but more useful for swarms than the 1 attacker theyre pushing through; oblivion stone is terrible versus delver as 1 stifle trades for 1 card+8 mana; and repeal is nice but not permanent.