[Deck] Dragon Stompy

Oh sweet lord. I don't know how many times I have to quelch this myth of "SoFI is bad on a Dragon". I have played DS longer than any of you foo's and sword on a Dragon has NEVER cost me a game as compared to Jitte. The closest it ever came was a race against combo, but Jitte would have left me 2 life short of winning. Sure, it takes away double strike, but all you're left with is a ho hum pro bolt/bounce evasive creature that is going to do 7-12 damage, possibly kill a creature, and draw you a card. Woe is me.

As for Trinis main, it really goes to the heart of playing this deck. There are a lot of choices that are both meta dependant (kind of a cop out) and I'm going to call it "risk-reward" dependant. Trini, as well as Arc-Slogger, Seething Song, and equipment all fall in both categories. By cutting them all, you would have an extremely consistent deck that relies on it's disruption to stall. However the deck will be fairly unexplosive. The correct move is to find how many of these elements you want to run (and really a lot of it is personal choice).

SoFI IS bad on Dragon, or at least sub-optimal. If you have another creature, stick on that. You get the DS of dragon + the Bs of SoFI blowing things up.

I find that I like 4 SoLS and 3 SOFI though. I have yet to regret seeing a SoLS. It helps to cover up the sometimes obscene amount of damage I take, plus gets me creatures that are countered (looking at you Magus of the Moon).

I keep some Trinis in the SB because they are amazing against Storm combo, but less that optimal here because of the fact that they must be an early play or are often a bust.

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Originally Posted by Cait_Sith

I find that I like 4 SoLS and 3 SOFI though. I have yet to regret seeing a SoLS. It helps to cover up the sometimes obscene amount of damage I take, plus gets me creatures that are countered (looking at you Magus of the Moon).

I keep some Trinis in the SB because they are amazing against Storm combo, but less that optimal here because of the fact that they must be an early play or are often a bust.

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You're really pleased with SEVEN equipment? jeez... i hope you're not running Jittes too :/ if i ran any it would probably be like 2 SoLS and 2 SoFI, no jittes. Chances are i'll have 3 Swords, i can't decide which one i want to run though. I'm leaning toward fire and ice, if so i'll cut a dragon.

Could someone please try and explain to me why would you want to run a sword of whatever over jitte?

I have serious difficulties trying to understand this..

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Originally Posted by Cait_Sith

I find that I like 4 SoLS and 3 SOFI though. I have yet to regret seeing a SoLS. It helps to cover up the sometimes obscene amount of damage I take, plus gets me creatures that are countered (looking at you Magus of the Moon).

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You run 7 swords in Dragon Stompy? What did you cut for them, Moons and Jittes?

Trinisphere just isn't worth it in the maindeck, and I play in a meta where a large part of the relevant decks are Thresh(like) or Storm. The problem with Trinisphere is that it's useless against just about everything else unless you drop it turn 1 on the play. When I maindecked it, I almost always would have preferred to draw a threat. To top it all off, I can't think of a card other than Jitte that is worse in multiples in DS.

3 in the sideboard is the most I would run, unless half your meta is Thresh or Storm on a regular basis. And Dragon Stompy already has an amazing Thresh matchup and the tools to beat Storm without it.

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Originally Posted by Kuma

And Dragon Stompy already has an amazing Thresh matchup and the tools to beat Storm without it.

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I'll agree with that i guess. I know against my buddy who plays nothing but either TES or SI, my favorite move is turn 1 blood moon and chalice at 0, directly followed by a comment along the line of "good luck with that black mana". Not that i'm afraid of every facing SI in reality, but it's still worth mentioning, seeing as it still is the reigning champion of the highest turn 1 win percentage in the format (somewhere between 40 and 45%).

Well even if they do get rid of the titan while it is on the ground they kill even more lands which you wouldn't even care about especially against the Threshold Match up.

I just threw a pair in my SB for the hell of it since I kept finding that Threshold only runs a few Basics opposed to a dozen. I wouldn't put them in my Main at all but they are really good SB cards combined with Blood Moon effects to punish the nonbasic land players.

What about Shusher? I'm sure he's been mentioned more than once, but wouldn't it fit well at least in the board? Maybe he is and I just missed it. IDK. I'd like to hear thoughts...

i plan to play this on the 24th is there any new sideboard choices?

I reality, no. Nothing that has been printed does a better job at improving matchups than 3sphere, moons, pithing needle, pyrokinesis, anarchy, etc.

I really don't think that shusher, that waste-on-a-stick, or any other shadowmoor card is worth running. Also, Sundering Titan is a bad idea. It's harder to cast than a morphed Akroma, and unmorphing Akroma is already hard to do.

I recently discovered that in my local meta that Burn is a major contender, so I decided that in the build that I plan on building in the coming months that I am going to use Trinisphere as a major part of the main deck because of burn. So here is the build I am working with:

Lands
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
10 Mountains

Mana Effects
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Seething Song
4 Chrome Mox

Beats:
3 Arc-Slogger
4 Gathan Raiders
4 Rakdos Pit Dragon

Moon Effects
4 Magus of the Moon
3 Blood Moon

Other Locks
3 Trinisphere
4 Chalice of the Void

Equipment
2 Sword of Fire and Ice
3 Umezawa's Jitte

Sideboard
1 Blood Moon
3 Sulfur Elemental
4 Pyroclasm
4 Tormod's Crypt
3 Pithing Needle

I didn't select any of the new cards, because I am not really keen on what some of them do. I do not think they really accomplish anything in the meta that I am playing in other than to slow the opponent down. Taurean Mauler for example is going to make the opponent spend one burn spell or creature removal spell to remove the Taurean Mauler and then I am back to square one. I personally think Akroma is too big for this deck. Other than that I do like the Sulfur Elementals, I just do not think they are main deck material in my current meta.

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Originally Posted by Cathal83

I didn't select any of the new cards, because I am not really keen on what some of them do. I do not think they really accomplish anything in the meta that I am playing in other than to slow the opponent down. Taurean Mauler for example is going to make the opponent spend one burn spell or creature removal spell to remove the Taurean Mauler and then I am back to square one. I personally think Akroma is too big for this deck. Other than that I do like the Sulfur Elementals, I just do not think they are main deck material in my current meta.

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Your reasoning here on the Mauler is a bit flawed, though.

Like, I'm not saying that we should be playing Mauler in the deck. I'm pretty sure that we shouldn't be, unless you're in a meta exclusively of Thresh decks, and even then only in the two or three slots (that I have) for Sulfur Elemental main decked.

But, doesn't every other creature (except for a Slogger) die to a single burn spell? Even a un-morphed Raiders will die to a burn spell during your draw step (unless you play the one instant you have and burn for 5). I'm pretty sure that's an incorrect reason to not play him.

Aren't you also a little threat-light? I play:
4 Slogger
4 Dragon
4 Raiders
4 Magus of the Moon
4 SSG
2 Sulfur Elemental
1 Red Akroma

Why Sulfur in the SB? You shouldn't ever really need to board him in against anything except Breakfast, and that deck is pretty much non-existant.

Also, 19 creatures and 5 equipment is not a good ratio. Sword is best MD material when you have Sulfur Elemental or Mauler with it, so try to fit one of them in (or Rakroma if you want a singleton).

Hi there, today I played Dragon Stompy to a 3-1-1 finish at the monthly tournament in Hassloch (sadly we only had 25 people this time because of other tournaments and non-Magic related stuff happening that same day). I'll write a more detailed report later but I'll give you a short summary now.
My decklist was this:
4 Slogger
4 Pit Dragon
4 SSG
4 Mox
4 Raiders
4 Sulfur Elemental
4 Magus Moon
4 CotV
2 Blood Moon
3 Seething Song
4 Jitte
4 Tomb
4 City
11 Mountain
sb
4 Pyroclasm
4 Needle
3 Crypt
2 Keg
2 Moon

I played
Rd1 vs Fish 2-1
Rd2 vs Geddonstax 2-1
Rd3 vs UGb Grow 2-1
Rd4 vs GB Rock 1-2
Rd5 vs StifleNaught 1-1-1 (played games 1 and 2 then drawed the third game because we were tired)

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Originally Posted by Silverdragon

Hi there, today I played Dragon Stompy to a 3-1-1 finish at the monthly tournament in Hassloch (sadly we only had 25 people this time because of other tournaments and non-Magic related stuff happening that same day).

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What was the top 8?

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Originally Posted by Zork

Why Sulfur in the SB? You shouldn't ever really need to board him in against anything except Breakfast, and that deck is pretty much non-existant.

Also, 19 creatures and 5 equipment is not a good ratio. Sword is best MD material when you have Sulfur Elemental or Mauler with it, so try to fit one of them in (or Rakroma if you want a singleton).

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okay, the reason I run the Sulfur Elemental in the sideboard is because of Angel Stompy which is in my meta, though its only one deck.... Additionally I am not sure where I would put the Red Akroma, but if you all think I should add a Red Akroma I will.

The only question I have is what do I take out for the RAkroma and Sulfur Elementals.... because as it stands right now, I do not want to take out the Trinispheres....

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Originally Posted by lonelybaritone

Your reasoning here on the Mauler is a bit flawed, though.

Like, I'm not saying that we should be playing Mauler in the deck. I'm pretty sure that we shouldn't be, unless you're in a meta exclusively of Thresh decks, and even then only in the two or three slots (that I have) for Sulfur Elemental main decked.

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Mauler is also superior vs RB and RBg Goblins. It helps you avoid turn 1 Lackey, turn 2 Warren Weirding. It also doesn't die to Tarfire, although I'm not sure if most Goblin lists run Tarfire (The two that frequently show up in my meta do). Being superior against Goblins and Thresh is a pretty big deal.

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Originally Posted by lonelybaritone

But, doesn't every other creature (except for a Slogger) die to a single burn spell? Even a un-morphed Raiders will die to a burn spell during your draw step (unless you play the one instant you have and burn for 5). I'm pretty sure that's an incorrect reason to not play him.

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I agree completely. Mauler also has the added bonus of (perhaps unjustly) baiting removal. I've seen numerous opponents StP him turn 1 only to face down a bigger threat next turn. People visibly react to Taurean Mauler; as soon as he hits they're worried about getting rid of him. Mauler sucks late game, but it's not like Sulfur Elemental is much better there. Mauler is a house early on.

The thing is, I think I can afford the Sulfur Elemental and Akroma, I am not so sure about 3 or 4 Taurean Mauler....

3-4$ pr Mauler doesn't seem that budget-killing to me..

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Originally Posted by Hightower

3-4$ pr Mauler doesn't seem that budget-killing to me..

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I thought they were more like 8-10 dollars per mauler... last time I checked that is where they were... granted that was when Morningtide had just come out >.<;

Hmm... I just went to Ebay and looked at their price, apparently they have gone down in price... I am going to have to reevaluate my deck build... still not sure what to take out for Taurean Mauler, Sulfur Elemental or Akroma... my theory is the Umezawa's Jitte as I still want to have the Trinisphere in the main deck....

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Originally Posted by lonelybaritone

Even a un-morphed Raiders will die to a burn spell during your draw step (unless you play the one instant you have and burn for 5). I'm pretty sure that's an incorrect reason to not play him.

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Note that against a competent opponent the Raiders will even die if you draw an instant or SSG. They'll just burn him during your upkeep and as soon as you draw it will die state-based without you having the chance to do anything against it.

Okay so the list I came up with after discussing with you all the modifications I should make to the deck is as follows:

Lands
10 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors

Beaters
1 Akroma, Angel of Fury
3 Arc-Slogger
4 Gathan Raiders
4 Rakdos Pit Dragon
2 Taurean Mauler

Mana Accelarators
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Seething Song
4 Chrome Mox

Moon Effects:
4 Magus of the Moon
3 Blood Moon

Equipment
2 Sword of Fire and Ice

Other Disablers
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere

Sideboard
1 Blood Moon
3 Sulfur Elemental
4 Pyroclasm
4 Tormod's Crypt
3 Pithing Needle

I kept the Sulfur Elemental in the sideboard because I know for a fact that in my meta there is at least one Angel stompy deck, and the Sulfur Elemental is my only answer to that deck. So I would like to have it available to me to beat that deck down. Even if in all likely hood the Sulfur Elemental is going to get swords'ed the instant it hits play.

What else do you know about your general metagame? All we know is that you have a lot of Burn, and on the basis of that it doesn't seem a great idea to cut Jitte while keeping 3 Blood Moons.

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Originally Posted by Cathal83

I kept the Sulfur Elemental in the sideboard because I know for a fact that in my meta there is at least one Angel stompy deck, and the Sulfur Elemental is my only answer to that deck.

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Anarchy is a cheap uncommon that makes Angel Stompy cry for its mommy, and also get you out of some VERY tight spots (Humility, Worship, CoP: Red). Play that over Sulfur Elemental, who all too often makes Silver Knight only more of a bitch.

Also, play four frickin' Needles in the SB.

Why is everyone playing pyroclasm in their boards? I ran Pyrokenisis in my build (0 equipment, 3 Main sphere, 8 moons, blah blah blah I'm Mr. Burns), and the only reason I'd've wanted anything else was Warrens tokens from TES (which I scooped to because Bryant promised me anal).

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Originally Posted by Nihil Credo

What else do you know about your general metagame? All we know is that you have a lot of Burn, and on the basis of that it doesn't seem a great idea to cut Jitte while keeping 3 Blood Moons.

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There is also a surplus of Threshold in the meta, as well as other decks that use non-basic lands. It seems people like to rotate. One week they will be playing Threshold, the next week they will be playing burn. Still there are a few people who regularly play Threshold each and every week regardless of the burn.

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Originally Posted by Nihil Credo

Anarchy is a cheap uncommon that makes Angel Stompy cry for its mommy, and also get you out of some VERY tight spots (Humility, Worship, CoP: Red). Play that over Sulfur Elemental, who all too often makes Silver Knight only more of a bitch.

Also, play four frickin' Needles in the SB.

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I like the idea of the Anarchy, I will have to give that a try.

As for the needles, I do plan to get a play set, so I can mess around with them and decide whether 4 is actually necessary or not. However for the moment the only card that is optional for taking out of the sideboard, is the fourth moon, and I am actually considering taking it out in favor of a Trinisphere anyways.

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Originally Posted by lonelybaritone

Why is everyone playing pyroclasm in their boards? I ran Pyrokenisis in my build (0 equipment, 3 Main sphere, 8 moons, blah blah blah I'm Mr. Burns), and the only reason I'd've wanted anything else was Warrens tokens from TES (which I scooped to because Bryant promised me anal).

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The main reason I run Pyroclasm in my meta is because one of the other decks people seem apt to run in my meta is Goblins, and also Goblin Storm in some cases. So I am inclined to play cards that can eliminate those cards.

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Originally Posted by lonelybaritone

Why is everyone playing pyroclasm in their boards? I ran Pyrokenisis in my build (0 equipment, 3 Main sphere, 8 moons, blah blah blah I'm Mr. Burns), and the only reason I'd've wanted anything else was Warrens tokens from TES (which I scooped to because Bryant promised me anal).

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Pyroclasm is mainly a board sweeper. Most aggro decks run creatures that have 3 or less toughness with cheap mana costs for fast plays. So when that card is played, you pretty much kill all to nearly all their guys for the same cheap price those people would have done to play their guys in the following turns.

After talking it over with a friend I have decided to add the Anarchies, that is a good choice, and I like it. However I have also decided not to add a fourth Pithing Needle. Instead I am going to be running a 4th Trinisphere in the sideboard, for those games against burn where 4 trinispheres just PWN ass.

If your meta is mostly burn and Threshold, then yeah, Trinisphere sounds like a great card to run maindeck. However, like Nihil said, there's no way you should be running maindeck Blood Moons over Jittes if you fear Burn. Even without the 7 Moon effects in the maindeck, you should stomp Threshold.

From the last list you posted, I'd probably go -3 Moon, +2 Jitte, +1 Mauler. You could cut the Sulfur Elementals in the board for Anarchies, and maybe drop the Pyroclasms for Blood Moons if you feel the need. I don't think Clasm is absolutely necessary, but you know your meta better than I.

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Originally Posted by b4r0n

If your meta is mostly burn and Threshold, then yeah, Trinisphere sounds like a great card to run maindeck. However, like Nihil said, there's no way you should be running maindeck Blood Moons over Jittes if you fear Burn. Even without the 7 Moon effects in the maindeck, you should stomp Threshold.

From the last list you posted, I'd probably go -3 Moon, +2 Jitte, +1 Mauler. You could cut the Sulfur Elementals in the board for Anarchies, and maybe drop the Pyroclasms for Blood Moons if you feel the need. I don't think Clasm is absolutely necessary, but you know your meta better than I.

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Thanks for the suggestion, I decided to take it... however I am going to keep the 3 extra moons, and one extra pithing needle on hand so that if I need to prepare for an unknown meta, I have them available to me (for example if I ever am able to go to the Legacy World Championship or something of that nature)....

Any Ichorid/Loam players in your area? Those are pretty much the only matchups you'd want Tormod's Crypt against (and Ichorid is still winnable with MD Trinispheres + SB Clasms). I figured I'd just mention it since Loam is traditionally nonexistent overseas.

@Pyrokinesis/Pyroclasm: This choice is pretty straightforward: Pyrokinesis is great against Goblins and assorted aggro while mediocre vs. Empty the Warrens, Pyroclasm is great against Goblins and Empty the Warrens while mediocre vs. assorted aggro.

Pyroclasm doesn't really do anything against Ichorid. Killing off some Zombie tokens is almost never a problem for the Ichorid player, and if they keep their combo in game 2 they will 'combo off' in your face with Flame-Kin Zaelot and you will never get the chance to play Pyroclasm (and they probably will at least consider leaving Dread Return in because Troll is strong against DS, so they will consider FKZ as well I guess). Alternatively, Ichorid kan go for an insane/insane Troll, and they can win with Ichorids which are immune to clasms.
Clasm is only ever useful I think when you can hit a Putrid Imp when that's their only discard outlet, or when they have to go all in with a couple of Zombies because they're dredging crap or absolutely not getting what they want. Or, if you happen to hit the 2 Moeba's when he was waiting on a third creature; random stuff like that.
And while Tormod's Crypt seems like a house against Ichorid, it's quite easy to play around. Crypt is annoying but unfortunately not the end of the world. Of course, if you have them, you obviously side them in.
As a DS player you have so, so many weapons against Ichorid:turn 1 Moon or Trinisphere, and Chalice for 1, Tormod's Crypt. Alternatively, if you have Trini and fear LED, dropping Chalice 0 (before the Trini obviously) is also a good play. Those will slow Ichorid down massively; unless they hit a quick Ray of Revelation (and have mana to support that, especially when they're facing down a 3Sphere) they're pretty much cooked. Ichorid will side those in. You as a DS player can actually chose how much hate to side in, there's just so much hate you have. Moon effects, Trinism Chalice, Crypt, all work decent to very well against Ichorid to the extent that I think maybe even Tormod's Crypt might be overkill, so I would, I think, never side in Clasms against an Ichorid deck. I've seen a lot of Devastating Dreams in the past an laughed at those as well. But you don't hear me laughing at Trinisphere with Chalice at 1.




On the Maulers: I still have a very difficult time deciding what to run, Sulfur or Mauler. While both have persuasive arguments on their side, I have always chosen Sulfur in the past. I have a set of Maulers but haven't really used them up to now.
I was wondering, if you play Mauler, obviously running it as a four off is a bad idea. But I run Sulfur as a four off and don't want to split 2/2 as I hate making the deck more 'inconsistent' (inconsistent in a randomish way, not in a mana-screw or no-threat-screw way per-se). So how does the decklist change? What are the creature numbers you run when you add Mauler?

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Originally Posted by Nihil Credo

Any Ichorid/Loam players in your area? Those are pretty much the only matchups you'd want Tormod's Crypt against (and Ichorid is still winnable with MD Trinispheres + SB Clasms). I figured I'd just mention it since Loam is traditionally nonexistent overseas.

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Yes, there is at least one Ichorid deck in my area, not sure about Aggro-Loam though. However there is a person who has played a Enduring Ideal deck, and I figure that a Tormod's Crypt would be able to help with that match up if it is timed properly....

And why is mauler a bad idea as a four-off?
I think it should be a 4-of if you choose to run it in the first place.

(the list chances so that you run only 2 jitte, and no trini. 24 threat.)

Yeah, I thought the Mauler must be a 4 off...

After long thinking, I decided to put Trinisphere in the Board, to play more Critters.

My new list looks like the following:

10 Snow-Covered Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Chrome Mox
4 Seething Song

4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Gathan Raiders
4 Rakdos Pit Dragon
4 Arc-Slogger
4 Taurean Mauler
1 Akroma, Angel of Fury

4 Chalice of the Void
3 Blood Moon
2 Umezawa's Jitte

SB:
4 Pyrokinesis
4 Pithing Needle
4 Tormod's Crypt
3 Trinisphere


MfG YawG

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Originally Posted by deviant

And why is mauler a bad idea as a four-off?
I think it should be a 4-of if you choose to run it in the first place.

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Neither is true. Since multiple Maulers have no particular synergy or dissynergy with each other, the quality of the Maulers you draw is unaffected by whether you run a singleton or a playset.

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Originally Posted by Nihil Credo

@Pyrokinesis/Pyroclasm: This choice is pretty straightforward: Pyrokinesis is great against Goblins and assorted aggro while mediocre vs. Empty the Warrens, Pyroclasm is great against Goblins and Empty the Warrens while mediocre vs. assorted aggro.

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Completely agree. Pyrokinesis is also good in the mirror, if that's a relevant consideration. Maybe that's included under "assorted aggro," but it's worth pointing out.

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Originally Posted by deviant

And why is mauler a bad idea as a four-off?

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The reason that Mauler is often not a 4-of is because it's your weakest beater. Thus, it's the easiest slot to cut from in order to make room for more relevant cards.

I see it this way: you want to play mauler in the first few turns, or you'd rather not even draw him. He's an awful topdeck. So if you want to have it asap, you play the maximum number. If you do not choose to go the 24 threat way, you should consider Sulfurs. They are as good as they are, whether you play them on your 3rd or your 7th turn.

Maulers are at their best on your ~2nd turn.

And even if you choose to go to 24 threat, which I recommend, you should test which one you like better. I'm still with sulfur, he is the better man in my meta. (a lot of control) If you have a lot of ThreshThreshThreshThreshThresh and goblins, look at mauler.

Oh! And the same with moons - you want one asap, so you play 8 to make sure this is more likely to happen.

Seriously though, play what you like - it's not like I actually care if you choose to not run moons, cut sloggers, rpd's and raiders, run the Rakromas and md a playset of trinispheres. And then play a one-of Mauler.

Practically everything has been addressed for this deck, read the thread. And if EVE does not present us with a very good 2R creature, or something ridiculous enough to challenge our already ludicrous beaters, there will be nothing new to discuss.

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Originally Posted by deviant

I see it this way: you want to play mauler in the first few turns, or you'd rather not even draw him. He's an awful topdeck. So if you want to have it asap, you play the maximum number.

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I hear this argument all the time, and it never gets any less wrong. Assuming a card has neither synergy nor dissynergy with other copies of itself (this is important!), when you play twice as many copies of it, you will double both the times when it's awesome and the times where it's awful.

To put it in another, more intuitive way: the quality of that single Taurean Mauler you peel off the top on turn X is not affected by whether there are 0 or 3 copies left in the rest of your library.

(Unrelated aside: Mauler isn't an 'awful' topdeck. If your opponent is at 3 life, is attacking with all of his creatures each turn, and either has no instant removal or is sitting on counterspells, then yes, Sulfur Elemental is better. Otherwise, Mauler is just as useless, just as useful, or better.)

anyone try ashenmoor liege? hes a bit expensive 1 (b/r)(b/r)(b/r). but his ability to drain the opponent for 4 if they target him seems a bit strong in this with a few equipment on him

Uncastable unless under moon = unplayable.

Also; in a deck that discards, pitches to mox etc. you can easily throw away the "excessive" copies.
Also; you really don't want to cast three blood moons either - you still play ~8. Because you want to assure that you can play them early.