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I would definitely board in Brutality vs Elves. Kill an Elf and post board they could have plenty of cards you can discard.....Natural Order, Glimpse of Nature, Abrupt Decay, Thoughtseize are all cards you could see post board. Maybe even a Krosan Grip but that a bit less likely.
I leave in Shriekmaw vs Elves and it's pretty much just terror.
Yes, you are right. This was the first tourament I had it in the sideborad. I have to playtest against elves with this card to see if it's up for it,Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilkin
Hi everyone, I'm new to this forum and legacy, but I have been playing since 5th edition. I'm finally at a place in my life when I can devote time and money to playing legacy. I've always liked mid range decks for their versility and I really like what I've seen of the BWg builds of dead guy. Could someone give me an idea of the current core of the deck and what are the flex spots, the decks place in the meta against miracles, eldrazi, and delver decks.
If it helps my local meta has burn, lands, and a couple of guys who are building a couple of different decks they are not talking about.
Thanks in advance!
I can help you out with a vague idea of the core.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ender84
4 Dark Confidant
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Darkrite Shaman
4 Swords to Plowshares
3-4 Lingering Souls
1 SoFaI
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawas
3-6 Single discard effects (Consider Inquisition of Kozilek and Thoughtseize. Some like Cabal therapy as well)
2-3 Hymns
4 Scrublands
4 Wastelands
7-8 Fetchlands for B+W/g
2-5 card removers (Consider Vindicate, Abrupt Decay and Councilīs judgement)
2-3 Lilianas
Those cards would give you a good basis. On top of that, here are some cards people like to play:
Beaters: Grim Flayer, Hero of Bladehold, Mirran Crusader, Sorin Lord of Innistrad
Utility: Tidehollow Sculler, Shriekmaw (Wilkin loves him)
Misc: Chrome Mox, Karakas
I am sure I have forgotten something. But itīs a start.
2-3 Tidehollow Scruller should be in the core as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Valech
Eh. Sculler isn't a portpoor choice, but I wouldn't call it a core card.
I wouldn't call Sculler a core card either. But that's just me.
My build is I admit, quite different in a lot of respects. I always felt Sculler is too fragile (and they get the card back), I play Toxic Deluge and other board wipes in the board and Lastly it can get awkward with Chrome Mox. I realize I already play artifacts in the deck but you can't play too many, otherwise imprinting decisions could get tricky.
So good news and bad news. Good news is I won a GPT for Louisville. 2 byes is nice. Bad news is it wasn't with Dead Guy but with Dragon Stompy. And I think I'm going to be going with Stompy at the Grand Prix. I've been something like 20-3-4 with the deck. I'm going to bring Dead Guy just in case as I love the deck and I still do fairly well with it but Stompy is what I'm probably going to go with. Ultimate with Chandra is quite fun. Uh..cast Chrome Mox you take 5?
Ender84....
So Dead guy is an attrition based mid range deck. Hmmm...Against the meta....
Delver. Heavy favorite. They don't play a ton of dudes and Dead Guy is quite good at killing creatures.
Miracles. Depends on Dead guy build but you're an underdog. The more Abrupt Decays, planeswalkers and hate cards like Choke and Gaddock Teeg, the better your chances are.
Eldrazi. 50/50. Eldrazi can get those silly god hands that are unbeatable but if the deck stumbles at all we can attrition them out. I really like Ensnaring Bridge here. I probably should play more.
Infect. Slight to heavy favorite. Again, the turn 2 hand is insanely hard to beat but otherwise the removal package we have is often too much for them to handle.
Elves. Heavy Favorite. Lol, I'm sure I'm going to be told or yelled at that I'm wrong but my experience is we are favored here. My build has tons of removal (including board wipe potential cards) and relevant hate bears. We will probably lose game 1 but I board in enough stuff to win games 2 and 3.
Lands. Favored. A deck we will probably lose game 1 to but I play tons of hate for games 2 and 3, that are often enough and that hit them from several different angles. Ensnaring Bridge, Pithing Needle, Relic of Progenitus etc.
Grixis Pyro. Slightly not favored. Mulitple Therapies usually get me in the post board games plus they have a ton of removal as well.
Death and Taxes. Heavy Favorite. Game one we are an underdog, especially if Mom is online but post board I'm fine, adding in tons of removal and needle effects.
Storm. Not favored. We do have tons of discard but I find it's mainly my Gaddock Teeg that does the work. I made a decision that there might be less Storm in the meta because of the rise in Chalice of the Void decks. We can definitely get the Hymn to Tourach hands that crush and slam Teeg as the closer but that doesn't happen enough for me to say we are 50/50. More like i think 60/40, again with my build. If you are on Scullers I imagine you probably would be favoured.
Punishing Jund. Slightly favoured. Game 1's I do ok in. Post board with the GY hate and board wipes usually gets there.
Shardless Bug. Slightly not favored. It probably should be just not favored but I tend to luck out more than most people.
Sneak/show. Favored. I'm a lucksack vs this deck and classic UB Reanimator. I usually have the Karakas or Shriekmaw when I need it. If they are on more of an Omnishow/cunning Wish kind of build, they are favored.
Reanimator UB version. Heavy Favorite. I'm a lucksack who plays a ton of GY hate. As for the BR version.....I don't know. I think we are probably an underdog in that one as it's so explosive.
Burn. Not favored. We are a deck that runs fetches, Thoughtseize and Dark Confidant.
Sneak attack/Through the Breach. Not favored. if it's not the Sneak attack that gets you first it's the early Blood Moon or Chalice. It can be a tough deck to handle.
Turbo Depths. Heavy Favoite. We can attack from several angles. From my play experience, it's an explosive deck but we have enough ways to deal with the 20/20.
I guess I should add for Delver.
If it's Canadian Threshold (with Stifles) then it evens up the matchup as they attack the manabase pretty well. I think we are still favored in that matchup but it can get pretty rough.
Another issue with the Canadian match up is Goose. As a 3/3 he's very difficult to stop in any profitable manner, and between daze, pierce, and stifle, it's difficult to resolve a Liliana to remove him with.
Some of those sight weaknesses (miracles, sneak attack, storm, DnT match up, Maverick) are why I played a couple Revokers. I thought of him as a Sculler that was better to draw when we're both top decking.
Goose can be bad to us as you said. If you have Mirran you mabe can be okey. (If they don't bolt him :cry:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Megadeus
To have a Revoker in main seems really nice to have.
I think Scruller becasue I have had him in my deck in day one and haven't looked back. But I understand why you don't think it as a Core Card.
It would be awesome if we did a big post in the first post with all the info about the deck. Like how it is on the Goblin thread for exemple.
Nice summary with the matchups. I don't have the same view in the match up as you do. Our build are a bit diffrents.
This is my view on the matchup.
You have to play smart in this match-up to win. You have to get CA from Hymn and Bob. Don't overcommit. I agree all the hate cards and AD is good in this match-up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilkin
I also think this is 50/50 and agree on the silly god hands with Eye of Ugin kills us. Batterskull and Jitte is good in the match-up. Charlice on 1 is not a big issue. I don't own a Ensnaring Bridge but I can see it usefule here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilkin
If they have a turn 2 kill with force backup, hard to beat. Otherwise, we have alot good removel in mainboard. Just wait with the removel on EoT or in response of a pump spell. When we have Jitte with counters=gg. Zealus Periscution is really good here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilkin
I don't agree of this. We are a bit underdog, at least game one. They can 5 elves round 2 and we can't keep up killing them all. I have played this match-up alot and I am always afraid of a topdecks NO. Kill all cretures and don't let them have 4 mana, then you will be safe. After the sideborad 50/50 at best I think.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilkin
This matchup is grindy as hell. All my games have been grindy and somehow I win in the end. Game 1 is ofc bad but okey after game 2 and 3. This is not easy matchup.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilkin
I don't think I have never played against that deck. I think ZP is really nice in this matchup.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilkin
I agree you in this one. Their hate don't affect us too much.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilkin
You really need to draw the right hand in this match-up. Get all the discard and hate on the first 3 turns and then strong thread after that. Tidehollow Sculler shine in this matchup becasue it exile a card AND can hit for two.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilkin
Both decks are good on grind. If they gets P.Fire online, then it's gg. If not, we can beat them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilkin
I think this is favor. This match-up is all about CA. Sure, they got vision but we have also Bob. Mirran Crusader is a beast in this match-up. Don't be killed or be stopped.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilkin
This is not a good match up I think. But then again, I don't have Karakas or Shriekmaw in my deck. The sideborad can be really good aganist this deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilkin
UB version will win game most of the time but we can beat them. The sideborad makes the matchup a bit better. BR version is the worst matchup. The angel that makes you pay 1 mana extra is really good against us. They can "combo" off really easy and we can't stop it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilkin
Agree, I have to sideborad out 8 cards to bring in other cards. They are too fast for us.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilkin
Never meet this matchup but don't sound fun at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilkin
Never played against the deck but what you are saying makes sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilkin
Hey guys, I have been posting in the rock thread but I guess my deck belongs here instead:
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Dark Confidant
3 Lingering Souls
4 Thoughtseize
3 Hymn to Tourach
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
3 Scrubland
2 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Karakas
4 Marsh Flats
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Windswept Heath
3 Wasteland
Sideboard:
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Zealous Persecution
2 Disfigure
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1Grafdigger's Cage
1 Chains of Mephistopheles
1 Choke
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Krosan Grip
1 Pithing Needle
1 Ethersworn Canonist
I have had good results after about 30 matches online, 60% win rate. I have found souls to be really good in the current meta, and delver decks are really easy
I think the list could benefit from Palace Jailer, since it has Souls to go wide and push for Monarch, as well as block and defend the crown.
2-3 tonight:
Esper Cavern Harpy maximum value.dec: 0-2 (seriously this makes shardless look like a pile of garbage). Most cards I have ever seen drawn by a fair deck.
Grixis Delver: 2-1
Eldrazi: 1-2
Imperial Painter: 0-2
Lands: 2-1
Just didn't have the right answers at the right times for the matches I lost. #midrange
Jailer is also good if the meta has lot of Show and Tell decks. You got to jail that demon or eldrazi and then draw extra cards.Quote:
Originally Posted by Claymore
3-2 today. A little disappointed because I started off 3-0, but I can't complain I guess.
Blue Aluren: 2-1
Infect: 2-1
Aggro Loam: 2-1
Sneak and Show: 0-2
Grixis Delver: 0-2
After 40 matches win % = 57.5
Could you be bothered to go into detail with the Grixis encounter?Quote:
Originally Posted by ironclad8690
G1: lost die roll. He leads with u sea shaman. I play shaman, gets dazed. He plays sea again and cantrips. I run out bob, daze again. On his turn he plays a young pyro. I for for stoneforge, resolves, grab skull. He bolts it, starts to mount dude offensive. I get enough mana to liliana or lingering soul turn 4, but it is too late. I opt for souls, he exiles with shaman. He plays more cantrips and threats, I answer them all eventually but he finds bolt for my last 3 points before jitte can connect.
G2 has a no lander, and then 4 lands swords to plow and pulse. I keep, scry a scrubland to bottom. I play fetch swamp pass, he leads with probe therapy takes plow. I draw and play drs. He plays a delver. Play lingering souls, he bolts shaman. Delver flips, I trade souls. He plays another delver, I pulse it. Eventually he brainstormed & pondered into drs and angler, I play a stoneforge and my batterskull gets therapied for his shaman. He beats down with angler for a while supplementing it with pyro, so the lili I draw is ineffectual. I just don't end up drawing enough removal from this point and lose. Usually pretty good matchup, this is just one of those lower percentages that happen sometimes when they out maneuver you with cantrips.
Just played another league: 3-2
Eldrazi: 0-2 (On the draw, his curve out was really good, g2 I bricked on land draws and probably was a little overzealous (lol) with a zealous persecution)
Miracle Blade: 2-0
Food Chain: 2-0
Sneak and Show: 0-2 (Punted game 1, had karakas in hand and should have played it turn 3 to turn off sol land petal sneak attack, but I had thoughtseized his only show and tell on turn 1 and was a little cocky. Game 2 he flustered my hymn and show and telled emrakul, I had no outs).
Reanimator: 2-0
Eldrazi shaping up to be a little harder than I thought. Still even with it in matches, it seems like I get all is dusted quite a bit in games 2 and 3.
Total matches: 45, win % 57.7
Nice decklist. I like the manabase, I want my Karakas in my deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by ironclad8690
I also want to try out sylvan.
I will go back to the lab and edit my deck a bit.