Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)
It is likely that you can prevent an early Batterskull with either Fire/Decay on SFM or a Therapy. If they get a T3 Batterskull it isn't the end of the world though. You can usually take a bit of damage and fight through it without much problem. Only if they get T3 Batterskull, T4 Jace things get problematic but that is not likely going to happen.
If it goes to the lategame Batterskull isn't that relevant if you have your stuff going. Mystic is always dead then because of Punishing Fire so if you kill the token once or twice with Deed/Decay/double Fire and force them to spend 8 mana (or prevent it from attacking with Thrun) you should be able to take over the game.
One way to get rid of it for good is to Deed for 5 at the end of their turn, force them to return it to their hand and then Therapy it away. But usually that is not necessary.
Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
KntrellCL
1. Nic fit never was standar, so sigarda fits into the deck list... that's why Ive never seen her in Type 2.
2. //Creatures
1 Sylvan Ranger
1 Academy Rector He's damn good, but with DRS he seems underpowered
2 Archangel of Thune trades 1x1 with swords, dismember, not gsz-able... you can combo from it, but is a combo very disruptable
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Deathrite Shaman - Maindeckable graveyard hate and alternate ramp source It doesnt fit into the gameplan. This craetures trades 1x1 and any deck with more copies will outplay your single shaman, Ooze does the same work and it can trade 1x1 after he remove some cards.
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Eternal Witness
1 Kitchen Finks----Just 1? you are playing Pod with Resto angel, you should max out every card with persist and undying.
1 Varolz, the Scar-Striped
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Sun Titan
1 Thragtusk
1 Restoration Angel
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Spike Feeder Only works with Archangel... on its own is a pretty lame cmc3 since your oponents can cast better spells for that cost (KOTR, Lialiana, Crusher, even loxodon smitter)
1 Necroplasm Totally underpower card
3... I dont see any problema to gsz for veteran if you turn 1 cabal therapy... is a pretty standar play T1 therapy, T2 explorer, flashback and then play a drop 3... in your case a kitchen finks only (witness is not worth it in this turn) or a Pod which you cant activate... leaving it open for removal. Drop 2... is more likely to abrupt decay or stoneforge, etc. Keeping a 1 lander hand with gsz is just awful in this deck full of bombs... dryad dies with deed... also, I think deed with Pod is a nombo... this deck list is not like other nic fits which dont have much more board presence and deed everything away... in pod list you will take a lot of your own cards down with deeds...
4... as I said in point 2... you play a lot of situational 1-of... you should play powerful creatures on their own. That's why you play scavening ooze... it trades 1x1 but he's too good... that's why you dont play KOTR, DRS, Goyfs, all of these cards dont fit into your plan... grind your oponent out of removals. Resto angel gives you a lot of value, has combat tricks, she can take down PWs... save one of your creatures etc... then why play just 1? doing a Bpod into resto angel is just half of its power. SFM is just an idea I got... she is pretty strong at her own... if I draw her or Pod her... I would be more than paid at that moment... pod veteran into sfm, search for 2 lands and a equipment, next turn... if sfm stays in play you have a 2 mana Bskull and a 3cmc creature (sac sfm into finks or witness) or just play Bskull from the hand. Bskull makes every dead draw on late game good (such as Veteran explorer, etc).
Rector: as a 1-of doesn't hurt, if either your opponent doesn't play drs, or you kill it, or they tap out.
Thune: Obviously I'm not going to pod into the combo if my opponent has mana open and is playing a removal-heavy deck.
DRS: I want it to eat removal, and if it doesn't then it's a great alternative ramp source with other relevant abilities.
Finks: I only really want it as a 1-of, it's not good vs everything and I can pod/gsz into it.
Feeder: It's useful life gain, chump blocking, and counter transfer without angel.
Necroplasm: Good board wipe, synergizes with feeder and thune and dredges for value.
3. GSZ for explorer is not bad, just sometimes you want to find arbor more and play necro, finks, or feeder on t2, resto/redcap/rector on t3, etc.
4. I have many powerful creatures in this deck, and they are all 1-ofs to maximize the options you have when playing gsz or pod. I run 3 of each, remember. In some circumstances rector or redcap will be better than angel and I want to be able to have that option.
Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)
As someone who hasn't played Punishing Fire before, it's taking some time for me to realize the power of it. It should read more like this:
Opponent gains 1 life, PFire deals 4 damage to a creature. That's just outrageous.
As I work more toward a complete list, I'm wondering if 4 SDT is necessary. I think 3 top 3 Abrupt Decay would be a better suit to my meta full of Shardless, DnT, Delver.
Also what creatures are you primarily recycling with Volrath's Stronghold? Is this a kind of replacement for the Sun Titan/Eternal Witness effect?
Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)
I think 4 Tops is the right number. I just want a Top in play in every game in every matchup. It maximizes your odds of triggering an Explorer. Filtering away Titans and Thruns early on and Therapies, Lands and Explorers in the lategame is great in general. Same for finding SB cards in G2/G3.
In this version Top works well with Liliana. It puts hand cards on the board which helps you to empty your hand so you can use Liliana's +1 ability if you can't get Fire/Grove to work. Top is also amazing against decks that play Discard. I don't mind playing with an empty hand and a Top in play, especially if Liliana ticks up.
If your meta is full of these decks you might want to cut a different card for the 3rd Decay. Maybe Kessig Wolf Run or a Liliana.
Volrath's Stronghold is at its best when combined with Phyrexian Tower (Two Towers). You can Primeval Titan for those two lands. Tower protects your creatures from Swords to Plowshares and you can conveniently use the two black mana to activate Stronghold. This works especially well with Eternal Witness and Thragtusk. Thragtusk + Tower + Stronghold is pretty great in general. If the game goes super late then Witness + Tower + Stronghold (+ Deed/Decay/Discard/Ooze) gives you inevitability against almost anything in the format. Doesn't happen all that often but I played Witness on Stronghold quite a few times in testing to make sure I can keep recurring forever.
Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)
Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TheArchitect
"Lastly, I must mention the trio of Sensei's Divining Tops. It's nice to see the card outside Counterbalance decks, and with all the shuffling, this deck is a nice fit for it. "
Can't tell if joke or not
Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Megadeus
"Lastly, I must mention the trio of Sensei's Divining Tops. It's nice to see the card outside Counterbalance decks, and with all the shuffling, this deck is a nice fit for it. "
Can't tell if joke or not
With LSV? He's just recycling old material.
Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jbone2016
With LSV? He's just recycling old material.
I sense a Recurring theme here
Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jbone2016
With LSV? He's just recycling old material.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hymntotourcock
I sense a Recurring theme here
Some of these puns are downright pernicious. You should undergo some therapy =)
Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Arianrhod
Some of these puns are downright pernicious. You should undergo some therapy =)
I'd listen to Arianrhod. He's a Veteran with this deck.
Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)
Hi all! I've been meaning to proxy this deck. Any major changes since HoneyT top8'ed with this deck?
Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)
These jokes are punishingly bad.
So, as I've stated earlier I'm working within a budget and therefore trying to make some saving edits where possible (namely duals). I'm working off Tao's list, and I wanted some suggestions within my edited version. Obviously shock duals are inferior, but they're available if I need them in dire situations. I feel like there should be 2 Mountain in the deck to protect against Port shenanigans but I'll get there after testing. I've also cut SDT to 3 (all i have) and added a 3rd Abrupt Decay. I really want to stick Sigarda in here solely for GSZ but realize getting her from your hand into your library takes a lot of work and is not really worth it. Shame, I love that card.
Does Primal Hunter not belong in here? At least in SB for control games? I haven't played this yet, but it feels really light on creatures. Then again, it is a control deck isn't it.
EDIT: How does Tajuru Preserver sound in the SB? Pox is still a deck I run into.
2 Bayou
1 Blood Crypt
1 Stomping Ground
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills
3 Swamp
2 Forest
1 Mountain
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Volrath's Stronghold
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Eternal Witness
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Thragtusk
1 Primeval Titan
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Thoughtseize
3 Liliana of the Veil
4 Punishing Fire
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Abrupt Decay
SB: 4 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Golgari Charm
SB: 2 Slaughter Games
SB: 2 Thoughtseize
SB: 1 Sylvan Ranger
SB: 1 Abrupt Decay
SB: 1 Garruk Relentless
Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)
So I recently picked up this deck (im in between wish fit and punishing, I have both able to be built) and im wondering about something: Huntmaster of the Fells.
I've had people question why the hell im running it and all I can say is that its a good value creature and basically gives us a free body and is a good midgame target. Am I really missing anything with him, as I feel like I am?
Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)
In Scapewish, you operate under the assumption that given time, you will win the game because you just need to assemble a lethal land count and a Scapeshift. Huntmaster buys you a ton of time against fair opponents by being at worst two blockers and a little lifegain, while usually eating a removal spell plus doing some other stuff, and it sometimes just randomly takes over the game if you can flip it a couple times. It's also one of the better threats against combo since it gives you a token to sacrifice to Therapy and then applies additional pressure with the threat of flipping. My ideal gameplan against combo is to Therapy once or twice, then stick a Huntmaster to clock them or resolve a Slaughter Games to disrupt them further; the other big bombs in the deck are way too slow against combo.
I can't really speak for why the Punishing Fire deck wants it but I imagine it's for similar reasons, that it's a really good value dude that threatens to flip and take over.
Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MrIggins
In Scapewish, you operate under the assumption that given time, you will win the game because you just need to assemble a lethal land count and a Scapeshift. Huntmaster buys you a ton of time against fair opponents by being at worst two blockers and a little lifegain, while usually eating a removal spell plus doing some other stuff, and it sometimes just randomly takes over the game if you can flip it a couple times. It's also one of the better threats against combo since it gives you a token to sacrifice to Therapy and then applies additional pressure with the threat of flipping. My ideal gameplan against combo is to Therapy once or twice, then stick a Huntmaster to clock them or resolve a Slaughter Games to disrupt them further; the other big bombs in the deck are way too slow against combo.
I can't really speak for why the Punishing Fire deck wants it but I imagine it's for similar reasons, that it's a really good value dude that threatens to flip and take over.
/barn regarding the jagermeister in Scape.
For P-Fire, Hunts is actually arguably a little better, even. Hunts doesn't flip very often in Scape; without complete control of a game and/or at least one Sensei's Divining Top, it's too challenging to reliably keep him bouncing back and forth to break games open with him. In P-Fire builds, though, you have the Punishing Fire engine, which synergizes very, very well with Huntmaster, and ensures that he's flipping on-demand.
Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)
I thought similar to what you both have said, I was doubting it as the people I talked with are some of the better players and they gave me a :eyebrow: :really: look when I mentioned Huntmaster.
I knew that Huntmaster played well with therapy. Im going to assume that since they dont follow this deck (its not even a blip in the mid-atlantic where I play), they dont know that he is a playable card in this deck.
How is the Shardless BUG match-up. It seems like it would be a battle of who got the most value out of their stuff.
Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kavaki
I thought similar to what you both have said, I was doubting it as the people I talked with are some of the better players and they gave me a :eyebrow: :really: look when I mentioned Huntmaster.
I knew that Huntmaster played well with therapy. Im going to assume that since they dont follow this deck (its not even a blip in the mid-atlantic where I play), they dont know that he is a playable card in this deck.
How is the Shardless BUG match-up. It seems like it would be a battle of who got the most value out of their stuff.
For Scapewish, it's a literal bye. I think I've lost 1 match vs Shardless when I was on Scape, ever -- he curved out DRS->Lily->Jace with double Force while I mulled to 5. Otherwise, it's a joke.
For P-Fire, I dunno, since I haven't actually played that variant. I would imagine that it would be fairly easy as well, since you can kill all of their things, Titan is better than their deck, and you have a solid plan vs planeswalkers. But, I know Tao and Tim have both said that it's a bit closer than that, and I'd trust their opinion significantly more on P-Fire than mine, since mine is just based in theorycraft while theirs are from actual testing.
Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Arianrhod
For Scapewish, it's a literal bye. I think I've lost 1 match vs Shardless when I was on Scape, ever -- he curved out DRS->Lily->Jace with double Force while I mulled to 5. Otherwise, it's a joke.
I always find it funny when you say this because the first time I played against it I lost horribly. I've since beaten it basically every time but that first time against Kevin Jones at an NELC he hit Agent into Visions 4-5 times during the match, it was really bad. But I agree that barring them having the nuts or you bricking out completely it's a very good matchup. When they're casting Agents into low-impact stuff and you're casting Thragtusks and Huntmasters, they can't do a lot. It's awesome.
And Kavaki, get used to those looks. You'll get one the first time you cast a Thragtusk and most times you cast Huntmaster, but you can generally ignore them and just kill them with your cards that "aren't Legacy playable." :wink:
Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Arianrhod
For Scapewish, it's a literal bye. I think I've lost 1 match vs Shardless when I was on Scape, ever -- he curved out DRS->Lily->Jace with double Force while I mulled to 5. Otherwise, it's a joke.
For P-Fire, I dunno, since I haven't actually played that variant. I would imagine that it would be fairly easy as well, since you can kill all of their things, Titan is better than their deck, and you have a solid plan vs planeswalkers. But, I know Tao and Tim have both said that it's a bit closer than that, and I'd trust their opinion significantly more on P-Fire than mine, since mine is just based in theorycraft while theirs are from actual testing.
Scapewish..... I know it uses Scapeshift, and I assume by the 2nd part that you win a wishboard out of the side. I also assume that someone broke down the pros and cons of both.
My question is which one would do best in a more open meta with a slight lack of combo? (I see more aggro and control variants than combo, but not enough to say there is little combo.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MrIggins
I always find it funny when you say this because the first time I played against it I lost horribly. I've since beaten it basically every time but that first time against Kevin Jones at an NELC he hit Agent into Visions 4-5 times during the match, it was really bad. But I agree that barring them having the nuts or you bricking out completely it's a very good matchup. When they're casting Agents into low-impact stuff and you're casting Thragtusks and Huntmasters, they can't do a lot. It's awesome.
And Kavaki, get used to those looks. You'll get one the first time you cast a Thragtusk and most times you cast Huntmaster, but you can generally ignore them and just kill them with your cards that "aren't Legacy playable." :wink:
I hate Thragtusk because I heard so many people wine about him and it started to annoy me. I dont play standard as a rule (people call legacy names, but when you can go control+c, c+v a list and get 2nd out of 90 people with it, with no experience..... yeeeeeaaaaaa.) Anyways, while I may hate him because of whiney people, I know how good he can be. At worst, he makes aggro spend a couple extra turns erasing his legacy. At best, he wins you games easily. 5 mana gets me a 5/3, 5 life and a 3/3...... yea, that sounds good.
Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kavaki
My question is which one would do best in a more open meta with a slight lack of combo? (I see more aggro and control variants than combo, but not enough to say there is little combo.)
Personally I think Scapewish is more powerful because it always has the possibility of going "oops I win" while still being able to grind out games. Punishing Fire is a bit more consistent because it gets to play more fetches, so its opening hands are better and it's less prone to having the wheels fall off, but you're less likely to be able to just win and you'll have to grind out opponents pretty frequently. It depends which you feel more comfortable with. Personally I love the raw power of Scapewish and the difficulty many opponents will have with effectively interacting with your plan, and I feel a bit less comfortable as a player playing decks that will usually have to grind out opponents game after game, but it comes down to preference and playstyle IMO. I think the decks are probably at about the same level overall. If you care about such things, I believe Punishing Fit is the only one to top 8 a StarCity open, but I know Arianrhod and I (and others) have had success with Scapewish at smaller events with fewer rounds.
