Printable View
My friend said "Come play legacy with us" and I told him, "I've never played the format but pick me a deck, I'll proxy it up." He found BUG Fit with Jace, Strix, Coiling Oracle, Recurring Nightmare and Consecrated Sphinx, and it was awesome. And then I was a Nic Fit player.Quote:
Originally Posted by kavaki
I'm gonna show my age here (so to speak), but I didn't know Veteran Explorer was a card until he was reprinted in the one Commander precon whenever that was. I immediately thought of Cabal Therapy and wondered if anyone else had thought of it yet, so I came to Source to check it out -- and Tao had just started this thread like a week or two prior IIRC.Quote:
Originally Posted by kavaki
Incidentally, almost all of my nigh-1000 posts on Source have been in this thread, lol.
I believe I read about a legacy deck playing grave titan. Then I heard the GP ATL was legacy and after I realized pox sucked I read allot and saw videos of this deck. Then I bought bayous and stuff to play. Such an awesome deck
I was a casual magic player until a friend of mine started building up a Stoneblade and humiliating every other player in my table. Then we were all convinced to go into the legacy format. But when went to see the legacy decks all seemed soooo boring. But then i see a deck that can play titans and gives land for everybody. Nothing can be funnier to play.
I picked up Nic Fit during the RUG/Maverick era when it was an excellent meta predator. I shelved Nic Fit when I realized Miracles and SnT decks weren't going away.
I think I had played legacy for a few months with just Goblins. One of our local players, Blake, was playing Nic Fit and it looked pretty interesting, not a normal legacy deck. I started picking up duals and starting playing with. And then of course, I found this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by kavaki
Miracles has gone away though. Abrupt Decay did that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Qweerios
SnT isn't going anywhere until Wizards cares enough about this format to adjust the ban list.
~Jeff
Miracles is still floating around #3-5 on TC decks. Its still very much a tier 1 deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffHoogland
Not that they care about legacy much, but the idea of linear, brainless, 2 card creature based combos gives the people at WoTC crazy hard-ons. Just look at all the love they give Kiki-jiki in modern. So yeah, wizards I think actually likes S&T. It was just made a judge foil too.
/barn.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheArchitect
Miracles isn't actually that bad of a matchup for Nic Fit as long as you aren't horrible and set off Explorers and/or you make some slight tweaks (Carpets come to mind, Slaughter Games is another good one). Sneak isn't even really a "bad" matchup -- it's basically a coin toss. Gets much worse if they have Leyline, obviously. Reanimator, TES, 12post, and MUD are the 4 worst matchups, by far. Luckily two of them don't really exist in common diction, Reanimator is usually weeded out later in the day by Deathrite.format, and TES is only an issue really if you're in Bryant/Ning/Royce/Patnode's stomping grounds.
Spike Weaver. Hahaha.Quote:
Originally Posted by kavaki
I've been playing Nic Fit since well before I joined the Source. I happened to see a fledgling decklist with Explorers and Therapies once upon
a time on TC decks and fell in love with the idea and immediately started brewing. What can I say? I'm a sucker for value. And playing things people say I shouldn't.
I was playing Enchantress when BUG Landstill was a thing. He used Pernicious Deed on me. I quit Enchantress a few months later and picked up a deck with Pernicious Deed. Haven't looked back since.Quote:
Originally Posted by kavaki
I have the staples to play most any non-blue deck, but I would rather play Nic Fit than any of them because Deed. It helps that my local meta is all fair decks with only one Miracles player. If SnT was a thing around here, that would make me switch decks.
Public Enemy Number One: StormQuote:
Originally Posted by Arianrhod
Two: 12 Post
Three: SnT
I never found the reanimator matchup to be that bad. I have so much grave hate between Slaughtergames, Scavenging Ooze, Deathrite, and Surgical - GY based combo is such a joke. I would rather play against Reanimator than Miracles - at least if I lose against Reanimator, it happens quickly. In the two years I've been playing Nic Fit, I don't think I've ever played against a MUD deck.
Consider yourself lucky RE@MUD. I've played it......five or six times now, I think, with various versions....only beat it once, and that was only because his deck completely imploded (which, to be fair, is a hazard of the archetype).Quote:
Originally Posted by guelahpapyrus
I tend to run very graveyard-hate-light. Sometimes there's some Surgicals or Extirpates, but against good Reanimator players that isn't enough because 8/10 they will discard for you first to make sure you don't have any bullshit. Slaughter Games is strong but you need to live that long. My problem is when they go turn one, EoT, Entomb; untap, Reanimate/Animate Dead/Exhume. If they have a little slower of a hand I can usually compete to some degree, but it seems like (vs exactly me) they always have the turn 2 monster -- and even if I mull to Therapy, it either gets forced, or they have multiple reanimation spells in hand. Like, I've had reanimator opponents mull to 4 on the play and still beat me. It's a wonderful experience, let me tell you.
I recognize that some of that is me being unwilling to run the necessary hate to actually beat it, but I'd rather have cards in my board that come in against more things than narrow graveyard answers. The only other deck that we really want gy hate for is dredge, and we have a oddly favorable matchup there, in my experience.
The Dredge matchup I've found to be actually pretty solid, not great but I wouldn't call it bad. Obviously we can just die to their explosive starts quite easily, but if you Zenith up a Sakura-Tribe Elder as soon as possible and just sit on it, it becomes a lot harder for them to get you, since you can kill their Bridges on demand.
I'm actually 2-0 with Scapewish against MUD, again sometimes they just have kill-you hands but then again, so do you, and unless you die quickly you have a shot of getting there with Valakut. Played it at the Somerset Open, killed him game 1 from a board of his Battlesphere+Tokens, Welder and Platinum Emperion, that was awesome.
Agreed at Storm being public enemy number 1. TES<ANT here since ANT is usually a turn slower giving us more of a shot to hit our discard and Slaughter Games. It's not unwinnable, and recently I've been able to take matches to 3 games, but it is definitely not good. Sneak/Show isn't bad with our disruption, I've found. Mono-blue OmniTell seems unwinnable though, it's just so consistent and it's very fast. I mean if you Extract/Games/Surgical their Omnisciences they do have a hard time killing you, they're forced to rely on a Showed in Emrakul, but that's still pretty good as it turns out.
I've never played against 12-Post. Reanimator is in fact awful for us.
MUD I always thought felt favorable if our deck wasn't slow out of the gate. Dredge Always felt like a positive match up. 12post is probably unwinnable. At least for non scape fit versions. You actually have zero way to interact in any way that really matters
Obviously it all can vary - but in general what card is often best to Slaughter Games first against Sneak and Show and MonoU?
Also - looking at the top 16 for the last four SCG events, there is exactly 1 UW deck in the 64 deck lists. Most grinders I know who played that deck for a very long time have all dropped it.
It isn't well positioned any more.
~Jeff
In a vaccum:Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffHoogland
vs Sneak:
Therapy calls Show and Tell.
Slaughter Games calls Emrakul, the Aeons Torn.
Reasoning: Therapy is your fastest answer, and SnT is their fastest threat. Sneak Attack is arguably better against us, but it costs 5 mana to play and activate, whereas SnT costs a substantially easier 3, and can be achieved off of Sol Land + Petal, ensuring that you never get a turn.
If you're attacking their enablers with Therapy, you want to go for their monsters with Games, to maximize its damage. Emrakul is far and away the scarier monster -- he enables allows Sneak to recycle their spent threats, he removes our ability to interact by annihilating our lands, and he has protection from Maelstrom Pulse. Additionally, I HAVE Deeded away Griselbrands in the past. It can happen. Emrakul cannot happen. Second Slaughter Games takes Griselbrand, and then you win. Just that simple.
vs Omni:
Therapy calls Show and Tell.
Slaughter Games calls Omniscience.
Same reasoning behind Therapy.
If you look at Omniscience lists, it becomes incredibly hard for them to win without Omniscience in their deck. They can still play things with Dream Halls, sure, but you can't pitch a colorless card to cast Emrakul. They also can't Ant you, ever. Their sole line of play is to Show an Emrakul, which is admittedly still a fine plan -- but it doesn't kill you immediately. Note that LabMan versions can still chain through and win, but LabMan is much rarer than Ants, for whatever reason.
Side note: you could make a legitimate argument in favor of calling Enter the Infinite, since if they Enter via Halls and Show Emrakul with approximately a million counters in hand, it can be a little awkward. However, if you shut down Enter the Infinite, they're much more likely to get an Omniscience into play, and then it becomes a crapshoot as to whether they hit business before you hit another piece of disruption.
IMO, the ideal sequence is to try to snipe their speed kill stuff with your spot discard, then use your Slaughters to target whichever piece they have in hand, thereby buying you more time. If you Thoughtseize and see Show, Omni, [cards], take the Show, then Slaughter the Omni. If you Seize and see Halls, Enter, [cards], take the Halls and then Slaughter the Enter.
Most of the time vs combo, you're trying to play more like a prison deck than a midrange deck. You'll win with whatever random dorks you have going beatdown, but you'll REALLY win by making it so that they can't win through a combination of lock pieces and Slaughter Games on key combo pieces.
Drew Levin wrote a premium article about a Planeswalker Control deck that looks like a BUGr version of Nic Fit, with Veteran Explorer, Cabal Therapy, Innocent Blood, Pernicious Deed, and the Punishing Grove combo.
http://www.starcitygames.com/article...In-Legacy.html
I think it will be available for free one month from now.
For those who have a SCG Premium access, what are your thoughts on the deck?
It looks like a pile. He cut all of the creature presence, which is fine, except he didn't go that far on planeswalkers, which is his intended shift. Losing Zenith as extra Explorers, as well as alternative ramp sources, seems really damaging.Quote:
Originally Posted by SirTylerGalt
Here's the list for those who don't have premium:
Creatures (4)
4 Veteran Explorer
Planeswalkers (8)
4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Karn Liberated
3 Liliana of the Veil
Lands (24)
1 Forest
2 Island
2 Mountain
2 Swamp
2 Badlands
1 Bayou
2 Bloodstained Mire
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Polluted Delta
2 Underground Sea
2 Verdant Catacombs
Spells (24)
1 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Pernicious Deed
4 Brainstorm
3 Punishing Fire
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Innocent Blood
Sideboard
2 Arcane Laboratory
1 Engineered Plague
3 Golgari Charm
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Swan Song
1 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Perish
1 Slaughter Games
/barning Kevin's thoughts on combo.
Quick thing to add vs mono blue though: Pay attention to their kill condition G1. That affects Slaughter Games calls. Vs Omniclash name Omniscience. Vs Omnimaniac name Enter the Infinite.
You guys that think Storm is public enemy number 1 are insane. I'm something like 9-2 against all flavors of Storm in sanctioned matches alone against respected Storm pilots. Not even including test games. I'm really not sure how you guys are losing games 2 and 3. I'm perfectly willing to share insight for those of you having problems
Show and Tell variants are by far the worst matchups as far as combo goes.
12post is unwinnable except with Scapewish and that's still not favorable.
MUD is very swingy. It's probably about 50/50 in my experience.
I've never lost to Dredge but Reanimator is certainly not easy.
Also, Drew Levin posted an interesting (read: probably not good) Nic Fit-esque list on SCG this morning that's at least worth taking a look at. It doesn't look as good as Nic Fit but is kinda cute.
Edit: looks like you guys ninja'd me regarding Drew's article.