[Deck] The Rock

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sughayyer

Hi guys, I'm just sharing the list I tested this week as I said I would.

discards:

4 thoughtseize
3 hymn to tourach


removals:

4 swords to plowshares
3 abrupt decay



threats:

4 deathrite shaman
3 dark confidant
2 tarmogoyf
3 knight of the reliquary
1 glissa, the traitor
3 lingering souls


card selection:

3 green sun's zenith
1 sensei's divining top
1 sylvan library


planeswalkers:

2 liliana of the veil


lands:

1 forest
1 swamp
1 maze of ith
1 horizon canopy
1 dryad arbor
1 bojuka bog
1 karakas
2 bayou
3 scrublands
4 marsh flats
4 verdant catacombs
3 wasteland


sideboard:

3 pernicious deed
2 life from the loam
1 gaddok teeg
1 kitchen finks
1 sigarda, host of herons
1 surgical extraction
1 extirpate
2 oblivion ring
2 duress


Hymns were great, and I'm thorn between hymns and therapies. I also miss a third goyf.
Glissa is a nice non-gy-based creature with a relevant set of abilities, so I think I can keep her even without artifacts that can be recurred.
As I also said before, I tested it with stoneforge, but although she does generate card advantage and helps stabilizing the board, it forces the manabase even more (This deck needs double black, and now is craving for more green, I can´t let it too much white-dependent).

I had nice matches against combo, because that enormous amount of discard + teeg was enough give an upper hand. Against burn, an abundant deck in this meta, hymns were cool until the cavalry (finks and big beaters) came, but it is not too favorable. I wanted to add jittes on the board, but I can't make space.

Sigarda is in there because IF i ever get to a bug hard control or a jund match-up, she will win the game for me nicely.

Lingering souls have been great up till now.

I still don't miss the pulse. What decay doesn't take away, o-ring does, and for tokens, etc i can count on deed.

I added the second life from the loam just in case... in the matches I want loam I do so desperately.

canadian and bug tempo are still favorable matches with gsz, shaman and loam (canadian is very favorable, team america not so much). bug shardless seems harder.

I hope this info is helpful and I'm accepting suggestions as always!

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I feel like going to 61 and running the full set of Confidants is where you want to be.

Otherwise, looks good :)

-Matt

I hear so many different things that I don't even know if my calculations are correct. Statistically speaking, what is the difference if I decided to go 61 with the full playset of bob? I'm asking because I honestly don't know, and if the difference is small, it looks very appealing...

This isn't all the math involved, but consider that 1/60 = 0.0167 and 1/61 = 0.0163 - the difference is extremely negligible, especially considering that you're talking about a card that allows you to draw extra cards.

The math is there. I've run 61 cards forever and it's been fine.

-Matt

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sdematt

The math is there. I've run 61 cards forever and it's been fine.

-Matt

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That's why you've only Top 8'd one Open.

hi Canada

Quote:

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Originally Posted by akatsuki

That's why you've only Top 8'd one Open.

hi Canada

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correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it two?

There's little noticeable difference outside of either being a more "adaptable" list(61/62) or more "streamlined"(60).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by akatsuki

That's why you've only Top 8'd one Open.

hi Canada

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Oh Bob, you make me laugh. We'll count your Top 8's and compare ;)

It's only one Open I've T8'd. I've Top 32'd most/all of them, and I'm consistently T4'ing all my locals.

-Matt

It's gonna be 61 then :)

Taking this configuration to playtest against my buddies, any input would be much appreciated! (Sideboard is still being worked on)

Maindeck (61) :(

Land (23)
2x Bayou
1x Dark Depths
1x Forest
1x Karakas
3x Marsh Flats
1x Savannah
3x Scrubland
1x Swamp
1x Thespian's Stage
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Wasteland
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

Creature (17)
4x Dark Confidant
4x Deathrite Shaman
4x Knight of the Reliquary
2x Stoneforge Mystic
3x Tarmogoyf

Instant (7)
3x Abrupt Decay
4x Swords to Plowshares

Artifact (3)
1x Batterskull
1x Sword of Feast and Famine
1x Umezawa's Jitte

Sorcery (7)
3x Hymn to Tourach
3x Thoughtseize
1x Inquisition of Kozilek

Enchantment (1)
1x Sylvan Library

Planeswalker (3)
3x Liliana of the Veil

Basically it's the standard Jund-like Junk build incorporating the Stoneforge package and the Dark Depths-Thespian's Stage combo to win out of nowhere when Knight of the Reliquary is active. (Added 1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth in place of a Windswept Heath to fight against being color-screwed by colorless lands).

Is my build trying to do too much at once or should I dedicate more slots to the main disruption/turn creatures sideways-gameplan?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by roflwaffles

Taking this configuration to playtest against my buddies, any input would be much appreciated! (Sideboard is still being worked on)

Maindeck (61) :(

Land (23)
2x Bayou
1x Dark Depths
1x Forest
1x Karakas
3x Marsh Flats
1x Savannah
3x Scrubland
1x Swamp
1x Thespian's Stage
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Wasteland
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

Creature (17)
4x Dark Confidant
4x Deathrite Shaman
4x Knight of the Reliquary
2x Stoneforge Mystic
3x Tarmogoyf

Instant (7)
3x Abrupt Decay
4x Swords to Plowshares

Artifact (3)
1x Batterskull
1x Sword of Feast and Famine
1x Umezawa's Jitte

Sorcery (7)
3x Hymn to Tourach
3x Thoughtseize
1x Inquisition of Kozilek

Enchantment (1)
1x Sylvan Library

Planeswalker (3)
3x Liliana of the Veil

Basically it's the standard Jund-like Junk build incorporating the Stoneforge package and the Dark Depths-Thespian's Stage combo to win out of nowhere when Knight of the Reliquary is active. (Added 1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth in place of a Windswept Heath to fight against being color-screwed by colorless lands).

Is my build trying to do too much at once or should I dedicate more slots to the main disruption/turn creatures sideways-gameplan?

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you should test it. It seems nice at first glance (altough I'm not a fan of 2 stoneforges + batterskull nor dark depths + thespian).
Theoretically you got it all wrapped up. The only thing missing would be lingering souls but eh, can't have it all. Post your results for us!

EDIT: replace a wasteland for the urborg, bring the 8th fetchland: knights, shamen, and the manabase will thank you

After a long time with other decks I will return to "The Rock". Maybe you can give me a short feedback on my list.

Manabase:
3 Bayou
2 Scrubland
1 Savannah
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Windswept Heath
2 Marsh Flats
3 Wasteland
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Forest

Critters:
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Tarmogoyf
1 Thrun
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scavaging Ooze

Removal:
3 Swords
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Maelstrom Pulse

And:
2 Liliana otV
3 GSZ
2 Sylvan Library
4 Thoughtseize

SB:
2 Liliana
4 Duress
3 S. Extraction
1 LftL
1 Gaddock
2 Pernicious Deed
2 Thalia

With this list I want to be prepares for a lot of different matchups preboard.
It feels a bit strange to me to play the rock without a full set of goyfs and the lack of hymns, which are great in the early game, but mid or lategame they simply to not enough.
Liliana won me a lot of games, but there is no synergy with her in the deck...
And I am not sold on the dryad in the deck.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Seraph2k

After a long time with other decks I will return to "The Rock". Maybe you can give me a short feedback on my list.

Manabase:
3 Bayou
2 Scrubland
1 Savannah
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Windswept Heath
2 Marsh Flats
3 Wasteland
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Forest

Critters:
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Tarmogoyf
1 Thrun
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scavaging Ooze

Removal:
3 Swords
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Maelstrom Pulse

And:
2 Liliana otV
3 GSZ
2 Sylvan Library
4 Thoughtseize

SB:
2 Liliana
4 Duress
3 S. Extraction
1 LftL
1 Gaddock
2 Pernicious Deed
2 Thalia

With this list I want to be prepares for a lot of different matchups preboard.
It feels a bit strange to me to play the rock without a full set of goyfs and the lack of hymns, which are great in the early game, but mid or lategame they simply to not enough.
Liliana won me a lot of games, but there is no synergy with her in the deck...
And I am not sold on the dryad in the deck.

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Recall the functions of Dryad.

1) Fetch end of turn for a surprise attacker against Planeswalkers
2) Fetch to sac to a Liliana
3) Another Turn 1 acceleration piece
4) A creature to sac to Cabal Therapy

If you find you're not using it for any of these reasons, then don't run it. Since you're running GSZ however, you might as well. If you find your mana stability in your meta is lacking, then run another basic land.

-Matt

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Seraph2k

After a long time with other decks I will return to "The Rock". Maybe you can give me a short feedback on my list.

Manabase:
3 Bayou
2 Scrubland
1 Savannah
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Windswept Heath
2 Marsh Flats
3 Wasteland
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Forest

Critters:
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Tarmogoyf
1 Thrun
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scavaging Ooze

Removal:
3 Swords
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Maelstrom Pulse

And:
2 Liliana otV
3 GSZ
2 Sylvan Library
4 Thoughtseize

SB:
2 Liliana
4 Duress
3 S. Extraction
1 LftL
1 Gaddock
2 Pernicious Deed
2 Thalia

With this list I want to be prepares for a lot of different matchups preboard.
It feels a bit strange to me to play the rock without a full set of goyfs and the lack of hymns, which are great in the early game, but mid or lategame they simply to not enough.
Liliana won me a lot of games, but there is no synergy with her in the deck...
And I am not sold on the dryad in the deck.

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You should run Lingering Souls in favour of all your silver bullets main if you want synergy with Liliana :P

Other than that I wouldn't know what else to cut for LS. But they're just so good.....

Thanks for your feedbacks. I will keep the dryad for the moment.
My manabase feels solid.
The problem with souls is the fact, that in the most cases I simply use it to chumpblock critters. All the other critters can win the game by themself.
Thrun is at the moment only an experiment, I like him, but he has to show more performance... I will see...

I have never played any Rock variants but the deck, or should I say colors, really look like fun. As I don't currently own ANY Bob's, how would a list like this fare?

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Tarmogoyf

4 Abrupt Decay
4 Swords to Plowshares

3 Thoughtseize
3 Hymn to Tourach

1 Sylvan Library

4 Mox Diamond

1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

4 Wasteland
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Maze of Ith
1 Karakas
2 Horizon Canopy
3 Savannah
3 Bayou
1 Scrubland
4 Windswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacombs

I figure with the Diamonds I can really have some ridiculous first and/or second turns that, if not interrupted, will dominate the early board(or just play them and let them be sacrificed to grow my Goyfs). Protected by the spot removal/discard, I would hope it would be able to suffice as a fast clock. Wastelands, as usual can just win some games by themselves. Now...will it work? Any opinions?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Madmankevinx

I have never played any Rock variants but the deck, or should I say colors, really look like fun. As I don't currently own ANY Bob's, how would a list like this fare?

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Tarmogoyf

4 Abrupt Decay
4 Swords to Plowshares

3 Thoughtseize
3 Hymn to Tourach

1 Sylvan Library

4 Mox Diamond

1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

4 Wasteland
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Maze of Ith
1 Karakas
2 Horizon Canopy
3 Savannah
3 Bayou
1 Scrubland
4 Windswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacombs

I figure with the Diamonds I can really have some ridiculous first and/or second turns that, if not interrupted, will dominate the early board(or just play them and let them be sacrificed to grow my Goyfs). Protected by the spot removal/discard, I would hope it would be able to suffice as a fast clock. Wastelands, as usual can just win some games by themselves. Now...will it work? Any opinions?

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Take away the moxen, add 3 lingering souls and another thoughtseize/therapy/library/top.
Probably you'll have to change your manabase toaccomodate this, but you'll do well. Moxen became slightly redundant in the mid-range Rock (altough it may be nice on the tempo-based builds, however seldom might these builds be played). Lingering souls provides out of nowhere wins or board stabilization. Try them and see if you like.

EDIT: I've been playing this week with a list just like yours but:
-4 moxen
-1 sword of fire and ice
-1 decay
-1 stoneforge
+1 seize
+3 bob
+3 souls
+2 liliana
and 23 lands. And yes, that's 61 cards.

I've been liking it and I decided to test it after I saw a recent post in here, it's being really nice.

Ideally, you add some Bobs in and directly replace the Moxen. They're decent, however, when running only 23 lands, your ratios for lands to Moxen are off. You need 25+ to regularly support 4. 2-3 for 23 lands is more appropriate. However, they're dead draws in the later game.

If you don't have Bobs, which is fine, you run either more Sylvans and/or Phyrexian Arena. Even though Arena is 3 mana, it's still not too bad at all. Some European Junk builds were running them about 6 months ago in addition to Bob. So, instead of spending $250 for a set of Bobs, the Library, Arena, and Top cost you, what, $20?

So maybe something like:



4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Tarmogoyf

4 Abrupt Decay
4 Swords to Plowshares

3 Thoughtseize
3 Hymn to Tourach

2 Sylvan Library
2 Phyrexian Arena
1 Sensei's Divining Top


1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
(put the other piece of Equipment in the board)

1 Nantucko Monastery
3 Wasteland
1 Maze of Ith
1 Karakas
1 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Plains
3 Savannah
3 Bayou
1 Scrubland
4 Windswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacombs
24

Here I've put in 24 lands since this build is REALLY going to want basic lands since you're really hard into white. I've changed your manabase around as well so you're a bit more consistent. Basic lands are the real deal, and since you're lacking 4 Bobs, the Monastery will help do some work. You could also add a 1-of Garruk/Elspeth/Bomb card since you're at 60 cards with 24 lands (so your ratios are very good).

For a board, I wouldn't leave home without...

3 Thalia
1 Manriki-Gusari
1 Life from the Loam
3 Gaddock Teeg
+7 others

-Matt

Looks pretty good Matt. I just may give it a try in a couple days at a local!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Madmankevinx

Looks pretty good Matt. I just may give it a try in a couple days at a local!

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Let us know if you become a merchant of death. I would recommend getting Confidants when you can, though. They're only going to go up.

Is anyone here specifically in need of cards? Is anyone still running Shocks instead of duals or doesn't have Sylvans, etc.? I've got a ton of extra stuff that I may just send out.

-Matt