Miracle Control

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Originally Posted by AnziD

RE: Swords - I don't disagree with your points on Xantid Swarm and Confidant, but I still stand by that 3 Swords are unnecessary and that 2 will suffice. The primary point for this is that we are playing the extra copies of Ponder which will navigate us towards our copies of Swords. Once we find the first STP, Snapcaster also becomes an extension of what we are looking for.

RE: Your philosophy on ANT - Here's where I do disagree. I don't think that JUST countering the enablers is enough against a deck as powerful as ANT. I agree that stopping Wish, Tutor, etc is one of the strongest daggers we can throw at them, but you also have to understand that the deck doesn't just suddenly draw all these enablers off the top and kill you. There's a lot of construction and setup that goes into this process and stopping even one of those cantrips will set them back enough to hopefully allow us to resolve CounterTop. Against this combo deck, our goal for this turn is to make to the next turn alive. Hitting their Brainstorms and Ponders might let us see another draw step that could be that crucial Counterbalance needed to lock up the game. Also, postboard, what's wrong with having to fetch red mana against a deck that doesnt play Wasteland, especially when we're boarding out all of our WW spells? I am not saying Rest in Peace is not bad in this matchup. I definitely advocate having one copy. I just feel that the copy of REB and Pyroblast are stronger than RIP and the 3rd STP because they allow us to attack the ANT deck on an additional axis. You said it yourself, getting to Counterbalance seals the game, and having an instant speed counter for their gas feels a lot more secure than the 2nd copy of RIP.

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Your first is sort of ridiculous. You need a STP immediately against Xantid Swarm, and you're probably dead within 2 turns against Dark Confidant.

Your second point seems spot-on. I think perhaps you're doing the right thing, but it's not coming through in this argument.

Hi guys.

I was hoping to get some feedback on my sideboarding strategies. First, here is my list:

Land
1x Arid Mesa
4x Flooded Strand
5x Island
2x Karakas
1x Mountain
2x Plains
4x Scalding Tarn
3x Tundra
1x Volcanic Island

Creature
1x Snapcaster Mage
3x Vendilion Clique
1x Venser, Shaper Savant

Planeswalker
3x Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Instant
4x Brainstorm
1x Counterspell
4x Force of Will
1x Pyroblast
1x Red Elemental Blast
1x Spell Pierce
2x Swords to Plowshares

Sorcery
1x Council's Judgment
2x Entreat the Angels
4x Terminus

Enchantment
4x Counterbalance

Artifact
4x Sensei's Divining Top

Sideboard
1x Council's Judgment
1x Entreat the Angels
2x Flusterstorm
1x Grafdigger's Cage
1x Izzet Staticaster
1x Pithing Needle
1x Pyroblast
1x Red Elemental Blast
2x Rest in Peace
1x Supreme Verdict
1x Venser, Shaper Savant
1x Wear / Tear
1 Open slot

BUG Delver/Shardless

Out
4x Counterbalance
4x Force of Will

In
2x Blast
1x Council's Judgment
1x Venser
1x Entreat
1x Wear / Tear
1x Needle
1x Supreme Verdict

RUG Delver

Out
1x Venser
4x Force of Will

In
2x Rest in Peace
2x Blast
1x Supreme Verdict

UWR Delver

Out
1x Venser
4x Force of Will

In
2x Blast
1x Wear / Tear
1x Council's Judgment
1x Supreme Verdict

D&T

Out
4x Counterbalance
2x Blast

In
1x Entreat
1x Wear / Tear
1x Needle
1x Staticaster
1x Council's Judgment
1x XXXX

Elves

Out
2x Blast
1x Venser

In
1x Grafdigger's Cage
1x Wear / Tear
1x Staticaster

Sneak & Show

Out
4x Terminus
2x StP

In
2x Blast
2x Flusterstorm
1x Venser
1x Needle

ANT

Out
4x Terminus
2x StP
1x Venser
1x Council's Judgment

In
2x Blast
2x Flusterstorm
1x Staticaster
2x RIP
1x Grafdigger's Cage

Dredge

Out
1x Council's Judgment
2x Blast
2x Jace

In
2x RIP
1x Grafdigger's Cage
1x Supreme Verdict
1x Venser

Deathblade

Out
4x Force of Will
2x XXXX

In
1x Supreme Verdict
1x Venser
1x Council's Judgmnet
1x Wear / Tear
2x Blast

Stoneblade

Out
4x Force of Will

In
2x Blast
1x Wear / Tear
1x Council's Judgment

Miracles

Out
4x Terminus
2x StP
1x Council's Judgment

In
2x Blast
1x Wear / Tear
2x Flusterstorm
1x Venser
1x Entreat

As the attentive reader has noticed, there are some holes in my strategy. The most obvious are marked with "XXXX" and I would appreciate any help in filling out these blanks. Also, I have a open spot in my SB and would appreciate any suggestions to what should fill that spot. Finally, if you think my SB strategy against some of the mentioned decks are completely off, I would also like to hear suggestions here.

Sorry for the wall of text btw ;)

/Rook

EDIT: I'm gonna end with a sketchy idea - Long-Term Plans - has anyone ever considered this card as a one off? :D

Play a Blood Moon. Card is really overperforming for me, and i don't understand why it's not a SB staple.

Hello,

I just want to ask if anyone tried out Plateau instead of the Volcanic?
Because it is also fetchable with 8 Lands and solves double white and red problems. It also solves the problem that you might losing a blue too when they waste your volcanic. This means if they waste a plateau they get red and only white which allows you to still have double blue.
I addtion to that it is better in the ideal 3 turn land combination of Island Island Plateau then a Volcanic would be because as I mentioned before a wasteland would kill your double blue. Also it is better then a Mountain here because it provides white as well.

Best Regards Teveshszat

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Originally Posted by Teveshszat

Hello,

I just want to ask if anyone tried out Plateau instead of the Volcanic?
Because it is also fetchable with 8 Lands and solves double white and red problems. It also solves the problem that you might losing a blue too when they waste your volcanic. This means if they waste a plateau they get red and only white which allows you to still have double blue.
I addtion to that it is better in the ideal 3 turn land combination of Island Island Plateau then a Volcanic would be because as I mentioned before a wasteland would kill your double blue. Also it is better then a Mountain here because it provides white as well.

Best Regards Teveshszat

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I have never played Plateau but i think you can play it depending on your list.

I play 22 lands, 2 ponder, 2 Counterspells, Keranos and 2 Blasts in the maindeck, so triple Volcanic is better. If i don't play Ponder and f.ex 23 lands running Plateau is an option for me. But before i play Karakas, Mystic Gate AND Plateau together, i would rather commit suicide.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Teveshszat

Hello,

I just want to ask if anyone tried out Plateau instead of the Volcanic?
Because it is also fetchable with 8 Lands and solves double white and red problems. It also solves the problem that you might losing a blue too when they waste your volcanic. This means if they waste a plateau they get red and only white which allows you to still have double blue.
I addtion to that it is better in the ideal 3 turn land combination of Island Island Plateau then a Volcanic would be because as I mentioned before a wasteland would kill your double blue. Also it is better then a Mountain here because it provides white as well.

Best Regards Teveshszat

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I would not play Plateau in place of one of the 2 Volcanics. Maybe as a 3rd red source, but not as a replacement. The red is mostly for red blast, which is mostly for combo and control matchups were you turn into a UR deck, with little to no white cards left in the deck. When you are in those matchups, the worst land in your deck is basic plains since it might as well be colorless and all of your important spells either cost UU or R. Plateau does not seem much better. Making UU or even UUU for casting snaps or multiple counters in a turn is too important against the MUs you want red cards.

Hello,

yeah against combo you have a point but even then I keep swords against Swarms and deepending on their kill option maybe terminus 1 or 2 Terminus against their warrens.

against other Conrtol decks I want options for soild Jugements and or Absent against walkers, Gods or other stuff we have a hard time
when it hits but also want Red Blasts to enhance my counter and removal suit.

But then against Tempo Decks I want red without the fear of losing blue when fetching for it because of the wasteland. I again want solid Jugement options in turn 4.

If I fetch for Avolcanic I can only do 1 half of that. If I fetch for a Plateau I can do both.
So what I think I its worthy to try out is some 1/1 or 2/1 split. The Reason is that you could ajust you manabase better to the current siuation when you have the Plateau and Volcanic Otpion.

So I think I will try out this a look how it works out.

Best Regards Teveshszat

I like plateau a lot, but that's because I also run fire/groves, so I have a lot more red than most. While I love getting island + plateau, I'm not sure most miracle lists want the plateau though. I certainly don't think it's bad though. Also, be careful in thinking about how plateau is "helping" you not lose UU to mana denial. When you get a plateau you never had that second blue source to begin with, so you're not really protecting yourself from losing UU when getting plateau. In fact, if you have a manabase of plateau + two blue sources they can waste you away from UU (assuming one U source is nonbasic) compared to if you had 3 blue sources where they couldn't.

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Originally Posted by Rook1e

I was hoping to get some feedback on my sideboarding strategies. First, here is my list:

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Against Elves, I like Venser pretty well. He's good against Natural Order and Abrupt Decay. Jace can be clunky here and you can always board out the 23rd land against non-Wasteland decks (particularly fast ones).
For Dredge, I'd definitely leave in the REBs and would probably bring in more. REBing your own creatures to kill Bridges is a totally reasonable line. Counterbalance is pretty lackluster against Dredge.
In the mirror, I'd leave in the Council's Judgment and just wouldn't board in the third Entreat.
Everything else seems mostly alright. The last slot could probably either be a second Supreme Verdict or a Blood Moon.

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Originally Posted by Adryan

Play a Blood Moon. Card is really overperforming for me, and i don't understand why it's not a SB staple.

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Are you only running the 1 copy in your sideboard? How frequently are you able to dig for that?

Why do decks play Vendilion Clique? I see that it is a good card, but I can't see any synergies with other cards in the deck. Am I missing some synergies? Or is the ccard just that strong?

I play an extra Snapcaster and an extra Council's Judgment in my deck compared to most other builds instead of two Vendilion Clique. But I don't know why other like to play the Clique.

Plateau is fine. If you run enlightened tutor and blood moon the plateau enables island-island-blood moon for example. If I did not play Keranos or if I was fine with having my red source wastelanded I think I would play plateau over mountain again. I am worried about wasteland from decks with TNN and Ancestral Vision so I keep mountain for now.

Currently testing Izzet Staticaster in my Venser slot.

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Originally Posted by autonom

Why do decks play Vendilion Clique? I see that it is a good card, but I can't see any synergies with other cards in the deck. Am I missing some synergies? Or is the ccard just that strong?

I play an extra Snapcaster and an extra Council's Judgment in my deck compared to most other builds instead of two Vendilion Clique. But I don't know why other like to play the Clique.

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You obviously have not been watching Lossett's stream.

1. Pressure opponent's planeswalker, since creatures without flying can't get to opponent's planeswalker in general.
2. Unlike Snapcaster, Clique can actually block a flipped Delver, can trade a threshold mongoose.
3. Unlike Snapcaster, Clique can respond to Stoneforge activation, completely blank equipments. Same logic applies to Vial activation.
4. Unlike Snapcaster, you can lead with Clique at opponent's EoT to check his hand, try to clear the path to land your Entreat/Jace/CB on your own turn.
5. Unlike Snapcaster, you can combo it with Karakas, block-bounce, or just Clique your opponent every draw step to take out his combo piece.

In short, yes, you're missing a lot of things.

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Originally Posted by twndomn

You obviously have not been watching Lossett's stream.

1. Pressure opponent's planeswalker, since creatures without flying can't get to opponent's planeswalker in general.
2. Unlike Snapcaster, Clique can actually block a flipped Delver, can trade a threshold mongoose.
3. Unlike Snapcaster, Clique can respond to Stoneforge activation, completely blank equipments. Same logic applies to Vial activation.
4. Unlike Snapcaster, you can lead with Clique at opponent's EoT to check his hand, try to clear the path to land your Entreat/Jace/CB on your own turn.
5. Unlike Snapcaster, you can combo it with Karakas, block-bounce, or just Clique your opponent every draw step to take out his combo piece.

In short, yes, you're missing a lot of things.

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Very good post. In addition to that i feel like Snapcaster is overrated. Snapcaster forces you to use StP on a DRS almost immediately. Not sure a Turn one DRS is worth that. What do you guys think/do in that situation (especially those that run 3 of them)?

If there is a land in the grave, I would seriously consider bolting the bird.

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Originally Posted by decan

Very good post. In addition to that i feel like Snapcaster is overrated. Snapcaster forces you to use StP on a DRS almost immediately. Not sure a Turn one DRS is worth that. What do you guys think/do in that situation (especially those that run 3 of them)?

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I bolt the bird 99% of the time, snapcaster or not.

Clique cycles drawn miracles which is the most valuable aspect of it imo. There are also a lot of "fancy" things you can do with clique, i.e trigger terminus and save clique with karakas, mess up spirit of the labyrinth, mess up opponents counterbalance etcetc.

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Originally Posted by Mackan

I bolt the bird 99% of the time, snapcaster or not.

Clique cycles drawn miracles which is the most valuable aspect of it imo. There are also a lot of "fancy" things you can do with clique, i.e trigger terminus and save clique with karakas, mess up spirit of the labyrinth, mess up opponents counterbalance etcetc.

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Clique is almost mwp. You can do countless things with our beloved fae. I once triggered a Entreat with a clique to make enough blockers to survive and win the following turn.

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Originally Posted by JimmyC27

exallium: Batterskull doesn't seem to shut down 12 Post, but I think it has some validity against BUG. Was there another match up you were thinking of?

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Yeah, like I said, it's an annoyance.

Bad Matchups that I can think of off the top of my head are 12-Post which is damn near impossible, as well as UB Tezzerator, which is almost never played, as it dies to the Aburpt Decay/Wasteland decks. Some consider D&T a bad matchup, and shardless a bad matchup, but I honestly think that both of these are fine if you know your deck well enough. Batterskull does nothing vs. Death and Taxes, as it'll likely just get it's token flashed into oblivion via flickerwisp, and does as much to shardless as BUG Delver does, but Shardless normally has the upside of being able to just 1for1 the token with a Strix.

Clique is sometimes a difficult card to evaluate, because on the surface none of the things it does (or can do) appear as a singular reason to run the card. However, when you add together all of the things it can do it starts to become a card which provides a lot of value to your plays. Personally, I run Clique mostly for two reasons. Clique is very powerful as a disruptive information play. In this way you can plan your hand to play around theirs, while also getting rid of something you can't (or don't want to) deal with. Hopefully in exchange for something less threatening. Secondly, Clique is one of the best win conditions versus combo decks, as it gives you disruption and a clock both at instant speed.

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Originally Posted by exallium

Yeah, like I said, it's an annoyance.

Bad Matchups that I can think of off the top of my head are 12-Post which is damn near impossible, as well as UB Tezzerator, which is almost never played, as it dies to the Aburpt Decay/Wasteland decks. Some consider D&T a bad matchup, and shardless a bad matchup, but I honestly think that both of these are fine if you know your deck well enough. Batterskull does nothing vs. Death and Taxes, as it'll likely just get it's token flashed into oblivion via flickerwisp, and does as much to shardless as BUG Delver does, but Shardless normally has the upside of being able to just 1for1 the token with a Strix.

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Except it's the actual opposite. Strix and whisp are sided out more often than not and even if the germ dies we are up a card. in the case of shardless re-equipping is actually great.