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Michael Derczo had another good showing with DnT here. Notice he went back to Wilt-Leaf Liege in place of Veteran Armorer and I am guessing two Managara of Corondor in place of Council's Judgment.
Maindeck is a pretty standard WW Thalia/Wingmare build, which seems a bit like the new base WW build, at least in terms of decks putting up wins at credibly-sized tournaments.
http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/...0627095236.png
Only playtesting can show how harsh the 2C activation actually is, but the potential synergy with the deck seems amazing.
To sum it up from the Salvation thread:
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Okay, so I'm going to be testing Eldrazi Displacer as a 1-of following the release of the new set. This card can do some stupid stuff in our shell. Obviously, it recycles Flickerwisp, Stoneforge, and Restoration Angel triggers, which is sweet, but it can do much more. It gets really cute with Mangara. It can serve as a "Mom" effect for your other creature, which is cool. For three mana, you can remove a blocker; for six mana, you can remove two. For three mana, you can kill a token...like, a Marit Lage token. You can unflip a Delver, you can invalidate an attack, you can unattach a piece of equipment, and you can make a bad attack to push damage and then save your best guy(s). You can also invalidate most "cheat a fatty into play strategies" for three mana. Also, it is a respectable sized body, and it doesn't shrink to Dread of Night!
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And Containment Priest makes it basically say "2C: Exile another target creature."
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Also, doesn't die to Punishing Fire, Massacre, Disfigure, Pyroclasm, etc. Is extremely good in the mirror and against Maverick as Mother of Runes doesn't do anything against this. Is able to instant speed change Revoker targets. You can activate Stoneforge, then before the ability resolves, blink Stoneforge and get an equipment.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/cards/oa...razi-displacer
Eldrazi Displacer
2W
Creature - Eldrazi
Devoid
2C: Exile another target creature, then return it to the battlefield tapped under its owner's control.
3/3
The new card from Oath is definitely good enough to test. Shocked that it wasn't four mana. It also has a respectable body so it doesn't get hit by Disfigure, Grim Lavamancer, Forked Bolt, Punishing Fire, Pyroclasm, or Massacre.
While it only targets creatures, it allows you to repeatedly blink Flickerwisp at instant speed, which has obvious applications. However, because Eldrazi Displacer doesn't have the TAP symbol, you can activate it the turn it comes down multiple times. Since it has a Restoration Angel effect as opposed to a Flickerwisp effect, you can blink a Revoker to change the name of a spell on the stack, activate, then blink Stoneforge to put an equipment on the battlefield, save a creature from a removal spell, and can be part of Mangara combo, all while coming off a Vial on three.
It's important to note that this doesn't only target your creatures. Blinking your opponents creatures is filthy.
Unflip a Delver of Secrets
Makes combat miserable for your opponent as you can blink an opposing attacker or potential blocker
You make what would otherwise be a poor attack or block and then remove them from combat to push through or prevent damage
Unequip an attached equipment with the exception of TNN
Kill tokens as small as 1/1 Elementals or as large as a 20/20 Marit Lage
There are drawbacks of course. I can't see this as any more than a one of as it's ability is redundant after the first. It requires you have Rishadan Port or Wasteland out. Playing this even as a singleton forces deck building constraints as you have to play extra non-basics which tap for colorless to reliably activate its ability like Cavern of Souls, Mishra's Factory, or Dust Bowl. Three mana per activation is a lot to ask for in this deck as there are times where even activating Stoneforge can be a problem. I'd hate to see it in my opening hand especially if I'm playing against a deck where Wasteland is important. Blood Moon turns this into a vanilla 3/3, which is just awful.
Other obscure applications: doesn't get hit by Dread of Night or Virtue's Ruin, is insane in the mirror and against Maverick as an opposing Mother of Runes can't give protection from colorless, has same effect as Flickerwisp + Containment Priest.
With the requirement of C in the ability's cost, do we really want to not use our Rishadan Ports to hold up mana to use this ability instead? Seems like we will have to gamble that the turn we let our opponent have access to a certain color or more mana that the ability to flicker will hinder their game plan more.
Stoneforge has an activation cost, but we know on T3 when we choose to hold up mana to EOT slam our Batterskull, that is worth not porting during their upkeep. Or if we spend 2 mana to equip a Sword or Jitte, that there will be immediate rewards. But I'm not convinced holding so much mana up for this ability is worth it. I guess we shall see...
I will bet that he is pretty ferocious in the mirror.
At 1:58, Game 2 is there a reason he didn't suit mom up with batterskull and kill him? I don't see an out for jarvis?Quote:
Originally Posted by c2232
Seems likely he just didn't see it.
Hi guys,
Do you know a side in / side out article for Death and Taxes ?
Do you keep thalia MD against Elves ?
Thx
maybe thinking about crop rotation into glacial chasm..... still should have taken the chance but i understand that fatigue was likely a factor at that point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin
There is no exact sideboard guide, since our sideboard is very meta-dependent (I know every sideboard is, but our deck is an anti-meta deck generally and so its sideboard is exceptionally fluid.) However, I can offer this:Quote:
Originally Posted by Hataraxy
Absolute Law - Burn, Goblins, Grixis Delver Aggro, UR Delver, Lands,
Armageddon - Miracles, Lands, Twelve-Post, Enchantress
Cataclysm - Miracles, Lands, Merfolk, Twelve-Post, Nic Fit, Nic-Shift, Stax, Enchantress, Infect
Celestial Flare - Sneak and Show, anywhere you want +1 removal, any deck with TNN, Affinity, Merfolk, Infect,
Chalice of the Void - High Tide, Storm, TES/ANT, Elves, Belcher(?), Affinity, Oops All Spells, Belcher, Infect, Grixis Delver Aggro,
Choke - (Wg) Almost anything with Isalnds, but especially Miracles, Merfolk, High Tide,
Circle of Protection: Red - UR Delver, Goblins, Burn, Grixis Delver Aggro, Lands,
Containment Priest - Manaless Dredge, Elves, Reanimator, Merfolk, Sneak and Show, Omnitell, Goblins, Forgemaster Combo/MUD, Death and Taxes,
Council's Judgment - Sneak and Show, OmniTell, any deck with TNN, Death and Taxes, UWR Delver, UR Delver, Goblins, Burn, Reanimator, Shardless BUG, Painter Grindstone, Maverick, Merfolk, Jund, Twelve-Post, Nic Fit, Nic-Shift, Stax, Infect, Lands, BANT Stoneblade, Grixis Stoneblade, Esper deathblade,
Disenchant - Death and Taxes, Affinity, Infect, Stoneblade\Deathblade, MUD, Merfolk, Goblins, Omnitell, Sneak and Show,
Ensnaring Bridge - Elves, Affinity, Maverick, Reanimator, Nic Fit, Nic-Shift, Merfolk, Sneak and Show, Omnitell,
Ethersworn Canonist - Sneak and Show, OmniTell, Manaless Dredge, Elves, High Tide, Storm, TES/ANT, Goblins, Burn, Merfolk, Infect, Belcher, Oops All Spells, Lands,
Enlightened Tutor - Omni-Tell, Miracles, Manaless Dredge, Elves, High Tide, Storm, TES/ANT, Burn, Reanimator, Painter Grindstone,
Grafdigger's Cage - Elves, Reanimator, Nic Fit, Nic-Shift,
Gaddock Teeg - (Wg) Typically a main deck in Wg, but post-Dig, less so. Great against every deck with X spells in their casting cost and 4cmc+ non-creature spells, namely Miracles, Elves, Nic Fit, Nic Shift, Sneak and Show,
Gut Shot - Death and Taxes, Elves, Affinity, Jund(?), Infect
Holy Light - Elves, Affinity, Goblins
Leonin Relic-Warder - Death and Taxes, MUD, Affinity, Infect, Deathblade\Stoneblade Decks, Omnitell, Sneak and Show, Merfolk, Goblins,
Manriki-Gusari - Death and Taxes, Affinity, Deathblade\Stoneblade Decks,
Meekstone - Affinity, Maverick, Reanimator, Nic Fit, Nic-Shift, Merfolk, Sneak and Show, Omnitell,
Mindbreak Trap - High Tide, Storm, TES/ANT, Oops All Spells, Belcher
Oblivion Ring - Sneak and Show, OmniTell, any deck with TNN, Death and Taxes, RUG Delver, UWR Dlever, UR Delver, Goblins, Burn, Reanimator, Affinity, Painter Grindstone, Twelve-Post, Nic Fit, Nic-Shift, Stax, Infect, BANT Stoneblade, Grixis Stoneblade,
Path to Exile - RUG Delver, BUG Delver, UWR Delver, Burn, UR Delver, Affinity, Jund, Merfolk, Infect,
Pithing Needle - Sneak and Show, Omni-Tell, Miracles, Death and Taxes, Manaless Dredge, High Tide, Storm, TES/ANT, UWR Dlever, Painter Grindstone, Twelve-Post, Nic Fit, Nic-Shift, Infect, Lands, BANT Stoneblade, Esper deathblade,
Qasali Pridemage - (Wg) Death and Taxes, Affinity, Infect, Stoneblade\Deathblade, MUD, Merfolk, Goblins, Omnitell, Sneak and Show,
Ratchet Bomb - RUG Delver, TES, BUG Delver, RUG Delver, UWR Dlever, Affinity, UR Delver, Miracles, Dredge, Infect, Belcher,
Relic of Progenitus - Reanimator, Dredge, all Delver decks, Jund, Lands
Rest in Peace - Omni-Tell, RUG Delver, Manaless Dredge, TES/ANT, BUG Delver, RUG Delver, UWR Delver, Reanimator, Shardless BUG, Painter Grindstone, Maverick, Jund, Nic Fit, Nic-Shift, Stax, Lands, Deathblade\Stoneblade,
Seal of Cleansing - Death and Taxes, Affinity, Infect, Stoneblade\Deathblade, MUD, Merfolk, Goblins, Omnitell, Sneak and Show,
Serenity - Affinity, Painter Grindstone, MUD/Forgemaster Combo
Spellskite - Infect, Death and Taxes, Stoneblade\Deathblade, Burn (kind of),
Spirit of the Labyrinth - Sneak and Show, OmniTell, Miracles, RUG Delver, Elves, High Tide, Storm, TES/ANT, BUG Delver, RUG Delver, UWR Delver, BANT Stoneblade, Grixis Stoneblade,
Sudden Demise - Imperial Taxes, against Elves, Goblins, Merfolk, Dredge, Infect
Sunlance - RUG Delver, BUG Delver, UWR Delver, Goblins, Burn, UR Delver, Affinity, Jund, Merfolk
Sword of War and Peace - Death and Taxes, Goblins, Burn, RUG Devler, UR Delver, Jund(?), Lands, Miracles
Warmth - UR Delver, Goblins, Burn
Wilt-Leaf Liege - BUG Delver, Shardless BUG, Jund, Death and Taxes, Maverick(?), Lands
Cards that kind of, but not quite, do the same things
Council's Judgment has largely (though not entirely) replaced Oblivion Ring, and no one uses Celestial Flare at the moment because TNN isn't running wild.
Mindbreak Trap and Chalice of the Void often fight the same decks, but Chalice strikes me as more flexible, even if Abrupt Decay has made it a worse cards.
Cataclysm and Armageddon is tough. Geddon clearly ends their mana, meaning no cantrips into rebuilding, but 'Clysm blows out tribal decks, planeswalkers, and unfortunately resolved Entreat the Angels, which will be back.
5th/6th targeted 1cmc removal aka Sunlance vs. Gut Shot vs. Path to Exile. Path is more viable in a world with Tarmogofy + Gurmag Angler. Giving away a land is less important that dealing with very difficult fatties, but only marginally so.
Meekstone vs. Ensnaring Bridge Meekstone drops sooner, but it could allow for a swing through and some decks have ways to untap their creatures, so I prefer Bridge, but both continue to have issues with being blown up by Abrupt Decay, the most evil, stupid cards BUG and Jund ever got, except for Deathrite Shaman and Liliana of the Veil and Thoughtseize and Hymn to Turach.
RoP vs. RiP, in which the question is whether or not you troll your opponent's graveyard for a few turns one cards at a time, slowing their progression into Delve spells and making DRS a little worse or just chuck everything all at once and make them use Abrupt Decay or Krosan Grip. RoP loses a little something with Dig Through Time. banned.
COP: Red vs. Warmth vs. Absolute Law. Depends on the red menace in your meta and what it is doing. COP and AbLaw seem to be most favored right now. Neither is great versus Jund since it can blow it up, but that's the problem with Jund.
Sudden Demise vs. Ratchet Bomb might seem odd, but really we don't have the colors for Explosives and Bomb is the closest thing WW has to something like a sweeper, compared to Sudden Demise, which as more of a real sweeper. Sudden Demise is much better against creatures, especially as it doesn't hit out creatures, but Bomb has versatility in hitting non-land permanents and once dropped it can be used instant speed, even if it is automatically an Abrupt Decay target. the difference in power in certain matches is insane, however, like Elves.
Leonin Relic-Warder vs. Disenchant vs. Seal of Cleansing vs. Qasali Pridemage. Disenchant vs. Seal is about whether or not you need it to sit out there for the optimal moment and having your mana free or holding up the 1W until the right moment because you don't want it getting blown up before it is used. Relic-Warder vs. both is about needing something vialed in or dropped in simultaneously with something else. A beast (pun intended) against Omniscience. If you go Wg, you just go with Pridemage. I will say, versus Sneak and Show, these are supplements to Phyrexian Revoker, whereas they are mandatory against Omnitell.
In my build, which is WW, splitting Vryn Wingmare and Spirit of the Labyrinth 3/2, I do this:
Elves: -4 Thalia, -3 Vryn Wingmare, +2 Ethersworn Canonist, +1 <Removal Spell or Chalice of the Void>, +1 Pithing Needle, +2 Containment Priest, +1 Enlightened Tutor
Revoker Targets Elves: Heritage Druid, Wirewood Symbiote, Quirion Ranger, Deathrite Shaman
If you are Imperial, you bring in 3 Sudden Demise or 2 and a Goblin Sharpshooter.
If you are WG, bring in your Gaddock Teegs.
Non-creature spell taxers do not help against Elves as much as they make our removal more expensive and we want to be using removal.
Did some goldfishing with Eldrazi Displacer. Mana seems indeed iffy. Although it's just mere goldfishing, it seems more favorable in many positions to just use Port/Wasteland.
However, if it's going to find a home, Imperial Taxes seems like the most likely spot. Cavern can provide extra colorless (I ran 2 during my goldfishing) and Imperial Recruiter is another juicy value target. You're also mainly operating with Vial @3 anyway.
More testing in that regard is greatly appreciated.
Gonna bring up some places where I disagree (mostly to foster discussion, not to be a jerk or cause there's a right answer).
Containment Priest - Manaless Dredge, Elves, Reanimator, Merfolk, Sneak and Show, Omnitell, Goblins, Forgemaster Combo/MUD, Death and Taxes
- I actually don't love Containment Priest in the mirror. Some games it might just straight up win because they kept a hand around Vial, but you never know what your opening hand will look like, and you can have a Vial-dependent start and then draw into this as a dead/bad card, or they can draw into their Flickerwisps.
Plus it's just a vanilla 2/2 on the field in a matchup where combat is gonna matter. I do bring it in vs Fish, where the upside with Flickerwisp seems like enough to make it a net positive.
Ethersworn Canonist - Sneak and Show, OmniTell, Manaless Dredge, Elves, High Tide, Storm, TES/ANT, Goblins, Burn, Merfolk, Infect, Belcher, Oops All Spells, Lands
- I don't think Ethersworn does much vs Lands. They don't cast a lot of spells in general, and the only one they love to cast multiple times a turn also kills this.
Vs. Merfolk, I think occasionally this might affect them for a turn if you cast it t2 on the play...but they're also a Vial deck that can cast 3 spells total and still win, a vanilla 2/2 is pretty weak in combat, and I'm not sure it's 'better' than any of the core D+T cards vs them.
Enlightened Tutor - Omni-Tell, Miracles, Manaless Dredge, Elves, High Tide, Storm, TES/ANT, Burn, Reanimator, Painter Grindstone,
I like E-tutor in the mirror and against Maverick or sometimes Fish as just another way to ensure you hit your equipment or Pithing Needle if they're ahead. I think it's worth the card disadvantage.
Path to Exile - RUG Delver, BUG Delver, UWR Delver, Burn, UR Delver, Affinity, Jund, Merfolk, Infect,
Also like this in the mirror, even as card disadvantage I think it's worth it to have removal for the right creature and I think giving them a land in a game that often goes long is okay. It's only really annoying if they have T1 mom and this is your only removal spell.
It's also good vs Painter (another thing to hit Servant) and Reanimator (another emergency copy of StP, sometimes even better since they don't gain a million life.)
Pithing Needle - Sneak and Show, Omni-Tell, Miracles, Death and Taxes, Manaless Dredge, High Tide, Storm, TES/ANT, UWR Dlever, Painter Grindstone, Twelve-Post, Nic Fit, Nic-Shift, Infect, Lands, BANT Stoneblade, Esper deathblade,
Don't think it's right to play this vs Storm just to gamble that it can hit a Delta. I know some people do, but on average it seems smarter to just have something that can actually attack, or has a more guaranteed impact.
Rest in Peace - Omni-Tell, RUG Delver, Manaless Dredge, TES/ANT, BUG Delver, RUG Delver, UWR Delver, Reanimator, Shardless BUG, Painter Grindstone, Maverick, Jund, Nic Fit, Nic-Shift, Stax, Lands, Deathblade\Stoneblade,
Vs. Omni I didn't even like this in the DTT days since it was often too slow, but now it obviously isn't good anymore.
Don't see what it does against UWR Delver either.
Against Painter is only really hits the Welder, which isn't enough I think. I don't think it's ever worth it to shut off Snapcasters in a Stoneblade deck, but even vs. an Esper Deathblade deck with a lot of Lingering Souls, I think the risk of drawing a slow/dead card if they have a hand that doesn't use the graveyard is too high - it's not like they can't play their deck with RiP in play.
There are definitely some other decks where I feel like there's not a clear yes/no on RiP - anytime the deck has a graveyard interaction but not so much that their whole gameplan depends on it.
And to answer the original question - I take out Thalias, a lot of our key spells will be non-creature and elves will only have one or two turns where Thalia is going to matter, if they have an average draw it won't take long for her to affect us far more than them. There will be instances where Thalia keeps them off Natural Order for a turn, but there will be even more instances where we can't StP + Wasteland, cast Jitte and equip, etc. and we're more pressured to do something in time than they are and that something often involves using a lot of mana. The same is true for Infect, which is why - based on previous discussion - I've started to take Thalia out there too, and I've definitely come to believe that it's a good idea.
I also take her out in the mirror and vs Maverick, since the taxing effect isn't guaranteed to be good or in your favor and enough of the time they just have Karakas and she's a completely dead card.
I also sometimes side out some copies in grindy matchups like Nic Fit where they play x/1 hate and you aren't likely to prison them out.
I have a feeling that he's not good enough. Three mana is a lot when you want to be Porting/Wasting.
Comboing with Containment Priest means turning off your Vial in advance, making it difficult to take advantage of without an unrealistic amount of time for you to cast, untap with Priest, cast the guy, untap with him, and finally target something, which can still be responded to by killing Priest.
Does he replace Crusader? I doubt it.
Does he replace Wisp? I really doubt it.
Does he replace Mangara? Well.. I mean.. people barely play him anyway and he's far better on his own; even though he's typically a 1-of.
Do you run even more 3-drops? I doubt it.
When you run it, are you replacing 2-drops with Containment Priest for a mediocre version of Mangara-Combo?
Does it replace Stoneforge? Nope.
Thalia? Nope.
Serra Avenger? Lel + Kek.
Revoker? I guess..?
I'm all ears, but I can't think of what you replace other than making another clunky combo or a less reliable deck.
Hmm... if MTGSal is excited about it, that usually means it's unplayable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barook
These are each the best at what they do. You didn't mention Mom but I can't imagine replacing those with Displacers either when we compare cards head-to-head.Quote:
Originally Posted by tescrin
However, Displacer is a generalist, not a specialist. It's more Flickerwisp than Stoneforge, more Port than Cavern. It thrives off interactions with many other cards, and after all isn't that kind of the strength of this deck?
Perhaps the question isn't whether Displacer outguns each other card in a vacuum, but rather if Displacer makes sense in the context of the deck's overall goals. In other words, flip the deckbuilding around. Start with 1-3 in the maindeck and see how you end up at 60. Is that resulting deck better than an existing traditional build?
I laughed :tongue:Quote:
Originally Posted by T-101
Joined to say I also laughed.Quote:
Originally Posted by T-101
@iatee
I wouldn't post if I didn't want feedback, and your points are thoughtful and obviously not trolling. Unlike, say, jokes about MTGSal, which true or funny or not, are actual trolling.
Containment Priest and the mirror: I like it because if I don't start with Vial out, it can be quite effective. And you are as likely to Flickerwisp them as they are you, so that's a draw IMO. I would not consider it essential in the match, however, and if I had two Wilt-Leaf Liege in the board, I would play those instead, hands down.
Ethersworn Canonist and Lands: Fair enough.
Ethersworn Canonist and Merfolk: If you take Vial away from them, this finishes slowing them down, and going long and not letting them kill you is great. I never want them casting 2+ spells a turn, and they can do that in the mid to late game with greater impact than we can.
Enlightened Tutor: I will add it to Maverick, mirror and Merfolk. Good points!
Path to Exile: Yeah, I just missed those. I always bring i in against Reanimator, it is great against Painter, and value in the mirror.
Pithing Needle: I typically want as much control as possible vs. Storm and this is not a bad turn 1 play on Polluted Delta, even if it is only partially effective. We have some truly dead cards in that match, so I find myself wanting everything useless out. Everything. That usually means I have a last slot that the 1-of Pithing Needle fills better than whatever is left.
Rest in Peace on Omnitell: Fair enough. I believe I first wrote this when we were battling DTT.
Rest in Peace and Painter: Yeah, I guess the issue is what do I have against them. If I have room, I bring one in to stymie Welder, but not two.
Rest in Peace versus the Rest: UWR Delver was an accident, I had done a copy and paste of a line without noticing it was in there. :frown: I want it against any deck using Deathrite Shaman, hence Deathblade, and I do like it against Stoneblade using Lingering Souls because those are a real pain.
I agree, the best way to use RiP is when it does significant damage to their core game plan. Hitting outlier effects is often not productive, unless those outlier effects are especially disruptive to our gameplan. That is my other consideration for when to bring it in.
So this colorless counterspell removal spell is incredible for us. One sideboard card that deals with Natural Order, Show and Tell, Pyro, Bob...and makes a dude when you need a body. Surely the best legacy card in the set.
Also rewards a greedy manabase - the 3 cavern r/w build I've been playing can reliably cast this.