Printable View
I'm not sure what the exact scenario was but if the targeted creature dies then the equip ability will be countered and the equipment will stay equipped. I fail to see why casting it in response to equipment would matter except in contrived scenarios.Quote:
Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual
I think there must have been previous damage marked from a blocker on the originally equipped creature. At any rate, something happened, K-Return was cast, everything died.
https://theweeklywars.wordpress.com/...matchup-guide/
A solid article on how to beat miracles from the perspective of a RUG player. SB games rely a lot on winter orb.
Turbo Depths player here looking for 75th card sideboard advice for GP Chiba. Which of the following cards scares you the most in a Lands shell (no loam) packing quad needle, quad tseize, quad duress, triple surgical, triple decay, quad sphere of resistance (should this come in?) I presume you bring in blood moons, wear and tears, and back to the basics vs me.
* 1 Crucible
* 1 Garruk Relentless
* 1 Worm Harvest
* 1 Tireless Tracker
* 1 Loam
* 1 Nephalia Drownyard (tldr thespian stage a blue source, screw with your top/miracles)
* 1 Stench of Evil
* 4th Abrupt Decay
* 1 Krosan Grip
* 1 Something else?
Current Sideboard
* 4 Sphere
* 3 Decay
* 3 Surgical
* 1 Needle (4th)
* 1 Not of this world (3rd)
* 1 Karakas (worthless)
* 1 Deluge (worthless)
* 1 Flex
against BG Depths I play
Wear/Tear for Needle or other cheeky things.
Brainstorn for discards
Humility, Terminus, StP for M.L.
all the rest is the same.
If BG Depths becomes a real thing I will start playing Celestial Purge because Liliana is too much a pain in the ass and cross hate is exactly what I need for her because I don't want to dedicate her 2 cards
Answering to your question.. possibly the Worm Harvest.
It would require a Terminus per turn and Miracle has no way to deal with Lands and Graveyard apart from fancy stretch
so after Grand Prix Chiba, where does Miracles go from here?
Hopefully not to the banlist.
mini-report
Round 1: bye
Round 2: bye
Round 3: Omni-tell
Game 1 I got fairly trashed, as the typical configuration just contains too many dead cards. You might have a chance if you MD Venser. Game 2, he put EE on 2 and I had CB in play. He didn’t activate EE immediately for some mysterious reasons. When his Omni resolved, I tried to disenchant but ran into a “free” FoW. Anyway, his Pieces of Puzzle blanked. Here was where he made the critical error. On the next turn, he tried a free Cunning Wish; in response, I used SDT to draw the floating Snapcaster, putting SDT on top of my library, then I casted Snapcaster, he immediately tried to red blast the mage on stack, hence I got my CB trigger when he would have activate EE first. Hence I flashback-ed disenchant to get rid of Omni, and won from there. Oh, some versions of this would splash White for StP and Mentor SB.
3-0
Round 4: Lands
Miracles is favored, not much to go into it. Highlight of this match: he didn’t concede when I had RiP and CB in play. After he double-port-ed me, I found a fetchland to find a Volcanic to cast From the Ashes, he still did not concede after FtA blew up his 8 to 10 lands. After that, I dropped a Clique, only then did he concede.
4-0
Round 5: Grixis
Game 1 I could never actually find a Plains, Tundra simply does not last. Game 2 I could not find a Red source to blast a TNN on stack and failed to find answer to it. His version ran Stifle; and like many tempo players in Japan, he 100% FoW-ed turn 1 SDT.
4-1
Round 6: Forgot
I could not recall, did I also lose the notes? I blame the massive delay that might have occurred between the rounds.
5-1
Round 7: Grixis again
It’s a repeat of Round 5. This guy also FoW-ed turn 1 SDT. I could never actually have a Plains in play. At this point I felt a bit frustrated. Scalding Tarn was mocking me.
5-2
Round 8: BUG Planeswalker, maybe Delver SB?
His deck was strange, we played a long game 1 in which I won. For its entirety, I did not see a Delver. I saw Liliana and Jace from him, but did not see any Shardless Agents. I only saw Delver in the SB games. This game was long, including me From the Ashes late game to blow up his 6~8 lands. He put down more fetchlands after my nuke, but who was he kidding, he got no more lands to find. Finally I found Entreat to finish him off, just barely before the time was called.
6-2
Round 9: Griselbrand-storm, or Tin-fin
Game 1 he mulled to 3, played Marsh Flat, played another land, then scooped up his cards. Based on that, I was able to pin him down to this deck and I SB correctly. Game 2 he switched to Mentor plan. Game 3 I saw 2 Terminus in my opening 7 and 5 lands, but one of the lands was Karakas. It’s a gamble, but I just got this read, in that he would go for the Griselbrand plan. He later either casted Duress or Unmask to see the Karakas, in which he was not pleased, and when he went for Griselbrand anyway, my timely Surgical got that out of way, and while looking at his library, I noticed that his win-con became: Children, Emrakul, or Shallow Grave my creatures. He did managed to rush me for 15 damages via Shallow Grave-Emrakul, but the creature got exiled at EoT, now he actually did not have win-con. His line was to decay my Clique, but he had to Needle my Karakas first. Of course his plan did not work since I saw that coming.
7-2
Since I did not receive the DnT or Eldrazi treatment on day 1, I would admit that luck was part of it.
Round 10: Grixis
Game 1, I was able to establish my Mana base at last, found my Plains, got CB into play, got Jace to stick. Game 2 I was able to make better trades, he seemed to opt for Gurmag Angler over TNN, he lost after I traded his hand away and then jam CB subsequently Entreat FTW.
8-2
The tournament went crappy after this. I lost to Dragon Stompy and DnT after, therefore dropped. Dragon Stompy games were not close; even though I did not get Chalice locked, it was not easy to try to deal with Chandra, Sin Prodder, Blood Moon, and other bizarre Red spells with cmc 4 or higher in Japanese.
Overall, Japanese players are well-prepared for any established decks. A friend of mine was on a lesser known deck and they seemed confused and might perform worse if they could not identify your archetype. I spent a lot of time modifying SB and practicing against DnT and Eldrazi, still recommend putting in the effort on those MUs, it's required for any GP-goers at this moment in time.
What's with Japanese players and FoWing turn 1 Tops?
@Cutthroat
It makes some amount of sense. I mean like Schonegger said, Miracles isn't a counter-top deck, Miracles is a Sensei Top - Terminus deck that happens to have Counterbalance in it. The deck is far worse with a naked Counterbalance vs a naked Top. I'd much rather play the mirror against (and I'm sure most other decks would prefer to play against) a Miracles deck with CB and no Top.
Where are you seeing coverage of Chiba?
coverage in english : https://www.twitch.tv/griselpuffQuote:
Originally Posted by Cipher
i doubt itQuote:
Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual
For the tempo decks, it makes a ton of sense to counter an early top. This stops you from setting up your game from the start, which is their game plan.
Joe Lossett finishes 51st out of 2503....Congratz!
may have finished better if he didn't get lost on his way to the tournament on Day 2 :P
Only 3 Legends Miracles in top 64 (57th is like a mini-legends hybrid list similar to the one I play so I don't consider it true Legends Miracles), Joe got the highest placement with it. Maybe Legends Miracles isn't the best mirror variant? Not sure how many mirrors those 3 players came up against but it had to have been a non-zero number.Quote:
Originally Posted by MiraclesWizard
joe took a 1 round loss for getting there late, I frankly think joe could have finished in the top 16
guys could you tell me against which matches you bring in From the Ashes (besides eldrazi,lands, 12post, blade decks)?
thanks
@Noloam
Any sort of 3-color grindy mana base decks. 4 mana is a lot harder to hit against delver decks where I'd be much more comfortable with B2B or Blood Moon. Ruination/From the Ashes are pretty good against Shardless and Jund. Miracles also hates man-lands in general as they are pretty problematic for us to answer and can force us into bad trades so decks with a decent amount of man-lands would at least warrant consideration for bringing in Ruination/From the Ashes. I also think you'd want Blood Moon way more against Infect than Ruination/From the Ashes but I've only every played the matchup w/ Blood Moons and B2B and never with Ruination/From the Ashes so I can't say for certain.
I don't think you bring it in against Stoneblade. I don't play it but I've seen it discussed for Shardless, and maybe Grixis or BUG Delver (since those variants are on average slower than RUG, therefore you might survive long enough to reach 4-5 mana). But I wouldn't bring it in against Delver at all because if you've reached a point where you can resolve a 4 mana spell against them then you've probably already won that game because Jace would actually help you win whereas From The Ashes would just be win-more in that situation. In other words, if there's a 4 mana spell you want to resolve against Delver, it's Jace and not FTA because FTA won't help you get back from being behind against Delver whereas Jace has the potential to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Noloam_
once again the transformational SB pays off
old school miracle MD
mentor miracle SB
I can see the point for it.
Containment Priest would have killed 4 decks in the top 8 (Sneak,Sneak, DnT, Elves) and the mirror match remains one of the major thing to be prepared for.
Dulcis in fundo: CB would have been strong just in the mirror and storm. DnT and SneakShow don't really care about it where instead CPriest would have completly shine. Elves plays 4 Abrupt Decays/Grips against us. It just doesn't stick a turn
9th to 32 decklists:
http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/c...sts-2016-11-27
33rd to 64th decklists:
http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/c...sts-2016-11-27
Assume I have searched around correctly, Looks like only Lossett ran Moat while some Japanese Miracles players ran Ensnaring Bridges.
That has to be a budget concern.Quote:
Originally Posted by twndomn
I don't think thats a budget concern. Your mentors get under bridge, not moat. It also looked like sneak/show had a pretty big presence there; vs that, bridge is a must remove, whereas moat is dead.Quote:
Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual
I tested Priest quite a bit against D+T and came to the conclusion that it's quite poor in that matchup. It's fine to board in against Elves which is a fantastic matchup without any help, and it shines against Sneak and Show and Reanimator. The problem with Containment Priest is that it's generally a pretty narrow card outside of Griselbrand matchups. Our maindeck has a lot of cards that need to come out depending on which half of the format you face, and I never have room for Containment Priest when I am mapping out my SB plan.Quote:
Originally Posted by Poron
Bridge and Humility are just better. Delver, (equipped) Wisp, Emrakul, Griselbrand they all pass Moat
Bridge is just very fragile being it an artifact but easier to cast and perfect with Mentor/Gideon/Elspeth.
I prefer Humility over everything and I thinking about Swan Song over Flusterstorm in the SB because of Sylvan Library, Sneak Attack and Counterbalance
Yeah, Priest is just too narrow anyway..
No, it is not.Quote:
Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual
They do the same vs Eldrazi where Bridge has splash hate vs Show and Tell, which is super popular in Japan.
Ah, hadn't considered that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quasim0ff
Humility: best card against creature since 1997
This was the GP of the Transformational-Miracle
Have you also noticed the
Entreat-Mentor
Mentor-Sulfur
for the two top placed miracle decks.
Mentor-Sulfur must be of big impact against DnT and the Mirror.
Gideon gives 3/1 tokens and attacks for 6 when he does.
Nice and fun. Mentor is for all the other decks I suppose
Like; It's not FOR sneak and show, but as most people in Japan are on straight Sneak and Show and not OmniSneak, they are cold to Bridge. It's better than Terminus, and that's it.Quote:
Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual
well they can always, SnT/Sneak into Griselbrand, draw 14, Destroy Artifact on Bridge then attack for the win..Quote:
Originally Posted by Quasim0ff
And that's why they won the GP.
Bridge and Moat don't really stop Griselbrand.
What would really lock them is Humility or Cursed Totem (but it doesn't stop Emrakul, so.. just Humility)
Destroy artifact with what? EE on 3?Quote:
Originally Posted by Poron
Ratchet Bomb/EE/Echoing Truth
Two of those hit Humility. And UR can't cast EE on 3.Quote:
Originally Posted by Poron
don't they all play Petals? anyway I am just saying Bridge only buys you time while Humility 99% of the times is the "you win" card you need to resolve
Against SnS sure, but it's pretty bad against other creature decks because an army of 1/1s is still an army of 1/1s. I'd rather play an anti-creature card that has wider application (i.e. Bridge or Moat) and rely on ETB effects (out of Venser and Clique), anti-cheat aka Containment Priest and Meddling Mage, and Karakas to beat SnS.Quote:
Originally Posted by Poron
i think it's wrong to look at cards like moat, bridge, humility, and containment priest as "blow out" or "game enders". yes these cards can lead to some blow outs, but i think you have to look at them as supplemental cards to controlling the game against whatever particular strategy you decided to put them into the sideboard for to begin with. and i think if you can change your point of view regarding the purpose of these type of cards, you'll value them differently when making sideboarding decisions.
because regardless of how powerful these cards can be in a given matchup, you still have to win the game. you still have to make sure they don't find their out and beat you.
What should my plan be against Aggro Loam as Legends Miracles? According to Schönegger's primer, I should just bring in non-permanent answers to his deck's strategy and leave in counterbalance. I have tried both leaving in counterbalance and siding it out for RIP and Back to Basics, but both of those plans seem to fail, due to the fact that abrupt decay tends to render them useless.
Could someone please provide me with a somewhat detail perspective on the matchup, or maybe just a few links to Joe Lossett playing it in first person so that I can see his sideboard plan (I couldn't find the matchup in his two most recent vods).
EDIT: I should clarify that some of my confusion stems from the fact that I don't know how to balance out my gameplan when I simultaneously need to be prepared for: punishing fire, midrange creature threats, and a sudden dark depths.
if you follow Joe on twitch @oarsman79 and watch his streams he always takes questions including sideboard strategies.Quote:
Originally Posted by vnsnbysaqg
I think surgical extractions, wear/tear, back to basics are your best bets vs. Loam but I guess it also depends on what your deck list is....basically you need to get counter top out there with a 2 and 1 drop out there (wear/tear works great there), keep them from punishing fire, hexmage, bob, life of the loam etc.
How is 1 relevant vs loam?Quote:
Originally Posted by MiraclesWizard
They are a chalice deck. They don't play Hexmage. They play KotR and Lilianas.