Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sloshthedark
and his mean brother Stifle your LED missed me by a seat next 8-man...
Oh, the good ol' Stifle countering LED. Really a pro-only setting, I see. I'm glad I did not come...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sloshthedark
doe, jackrabbit, squirell, stray cat, marten... in that order
Pictures or didn't happen. Also, is there anything you'd change in this list?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjholmes3
What is your problem? I'm not trying to be special or clever by showing off my "fancy original deck list". I'm posting the cards that I've been using so there is a point of reference for my opinion on cards and for my changes in the future. It doesn't matter that they're the same as anybody else's because creativity doesn't matter like results do, at least not to me. Last I checked, this was a forum for people to discuss ideas and the like, not for geniuses like you to throw around how awesome they fancy themselves to be and how unworthy players like me are, players who are just still learning, which is really the lot of us.
Nonetheless, I can respect your suggestions on the Mines, and I'll promptly make better adjustments to my mana base, but your opinion would've been much nicer to swallow without an aftertaste of dick.
Well written.
Martin, I wouldn't play Blood Moon. (If you were joking, consider me duped.) I know how amazing it can be against certain metas, but I fail to see how you wish to use it with a two-basic-only deck.
Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
PissedNumlock
My hand: Therapy + ritual, LED, infernal (basically enough to kill him)
Graveyard: 1 ponder, 1 preordain, 1 brainstorm, nothing else that is relevant.
The question I have is whether you start by flashbacking your cantrips first, relying on brainstorm to put back dead cards in case you ponder/preordain into nothing. Or do you go for infernal tutor first to find your singleton tendrils, but then cards like LED are dead if you find them with your cantrips.
depends how many cantrips (3) LEDs (?) and rituals (1?) are in gy and if you've played a land (how many fetches left) and which mana do you have left... usualy I'd start IT->LED, preordain, ponder , bs in vacuum... maybe preordain, bs, IT, ponder - without landrop, having UUBBB already
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bed Decks Palyer
Pictures or didn't happen. Also, is there anything you'd change in this list?
Martin, I wouldn't play Blood Moon. (If you were joking, consider me duped.) I know how amazing it can be against certain metas, but I fail to see how you wish to use it with a two-basic-only deck.
http://stlmeat.com/images/Pic1.jpg
...hmmm I know a badger lives by nearby hill...
no, Moon is serious idea, kills 1/3-1/2 of our lgs meta without pressure ... I just want to see those curious faces IT 3R floating and after =D ... you obv. kill with 3 spell warrens 30 turns later (dodging 3 fow)... for that fun 1 slot is ok
Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Ritual
Thanks for saying stifle works on nothing in this deck except fetchlands and storm triggers. Anyone who knows what they're doing knows that same with pithing needle.
I know Jake Xu in real life, and he wouldn't be on storm combo if it wasn't for me so shut the fuck up. If it wasn't for me, he wouldn't have put up the result with ANT that he did at SCG Minneapolis. I'm not claiming all the credit for his essentially first place finish but at the same time he doesn't have all the credit either.
I love how you immediately contradict yourself by saying that gemstone mine works and that it's the first thing you'll be changing in the list just like I told you to do. Gemstone mine does not belong in storm combo outside of TES. How many doomsday fetchland tendrils lists run gemstone mine when that's 5 color? Oh right they run zero because the card is meant to be tapped for mana once for a cantrip, second time for the kill typically. We don't run silence or rite of flame, so I don't see how that card helps us more than running, say, another underground sea or getting more sideboard slots by running a tropical island or bayou over it so you don't have to run a land in your sideboard that isn't named karakas/having more precious sideboard slots to help out in games 2 and 3.
I love how you also said that your list was very similar to Prosaks list when it is Prosaks list card for card in the maindeck with a few sideboard changes for metagame consideration in all likelihood. We all know Prosak and his list as his list is common knowledge. Cutting and pasting his list with a few tiny sideboard changes doesn't make you remotely clever, just saying.
i was thinking the same the other day, ill try a bayou and a tropical over the 2 gemstones, these lands just help top reach threshold (and maybe red mana for past in flames or something), but meh, with all the cantrips you can reach it easily, the only thing that is keeping me away from the switch are my foil gemstones
Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sloshthedark
no, Moon is serious idea, kills 1/3-1/2 of our lgs meta without pressure ... I just want to see those curious faces IT 3R floating and after =D ... you obv. kill with 3 spell warrens 30 turns later (dodging 3 fow)... for that fun 1 slot is ok
Yes, I understand that Moon stops most of the decks, but the problem is that you simply need to wait for your LPs and/or single Swamp and in the meantime they kill you with a random 2/2 green Boar token. I think you're once again too overripe and the whole Moon idea is very decadent. I'd much rather test City of Solitude, as it completely stops both spells and abilities, but sadly it's far too expensive...
Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bed Decks Palyer
Yes, I understand that Moon stops most of the decks, but the problem is that you simply need to wait for your LPs and/or single Swamp and in the meantime they kill you with a random 2/2 green Boar token. I think you're once again too overripe and the whole Moon idea is very decadent. I'd much rather test City of Solitude, as it completely stops both spells and abilities, but sadly it's far too expensive...
unfortunately I was unable to attend yesterday... you misunderstand me (besides decadent idea), it's obviously meant for clear board, therefore no boar tokens ...although the boar matchu-up improves as more alpha lighting bolts are showing up
Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sloshthedark
unfortunately I was unable to attend yesterday... you misunderstand me (besides decadent idea), it's obviously meant for clear board, therefore no boar tokens ...although the boar matchu-up improves as more alpha lighting bolts are showing up
So, can you share the main idea behind Moon? I understand that a 2nd turn DRit->Moon is pretty unexpected and quite devastating against the myriads of four-to-five controls that pester our lgs, otoh, I still can't see how you wanna win with a mere basic or two, unless you're sb-ing into some Dragon Stopmyesque Tendrils-aggro that miraculously draws the needed mana to play the buttloads of dorks outta sb.
Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
Honestly, its a gimmick. It may work, though. Might need to go in a deck a bit more dedicated to red (Rite of Flame would probably be a big help), but with the direction that ANT is going with the whole Ad Nauseam being dropped in favor of another PiF and Empty the warrens, I don't think it's a half-bad way to go, at least to test.
-ABC
Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
There was a four-rounder in our lgs today, my list follows:
Qty Name
// Lands
4 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
1 Badlands
1 Tropical Island
1 Island
1 Swamp
//\\
// Spells
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Infernal Tutor
2 Lim-Dul's Vault
3 Duress
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Lotus Petal
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Ad Nauseam
1 Past in Flames
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Empty the Warrens
//\\
// Sideboard
2 Chain of Vapor
4 Xantid Swarm
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Virtue's Ruin
2 Disfigure
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Carpet of Flowers
1 Bayou
In retrospective I should have cut one of LDV (and maybe CT), move EtW to sb and use the two/three slots for Preordain. Nvm.
Round 1, Luke, GBW aggrocontrol
I won the die roll and kept a hand with a potential for massive discard and a few tokens. Unwilling to mull it, I kept the hand and went turn1 blind CT naming Thoughtseize, miss. I was hit by IoK (IT?) and on my trun2 I went Drit + EtW, flashback CT. Then I played Ponder, another CT, and for a while we exchanged some discard and stuff until I LDVed myself out of game from some twelve life when I was facing lethal.
sb: in some removal, out some discard
g2:I won with the PiF combo after I stripped his hand of irrelevant cards.
g3: Lost to Cannonist followed by Confidant. No removal drawn, of course.
Loss.
Round 2, Martin UGW aggrocontrol.
g1: I won the die roll and stripped BS of his five-cards keep. He played some 1/1 dorks and turn before I won, he topped Clique, sent away my IT and then Karakas sealed the game.
Loss.
Nice evening, indeed. Thank God, the dilemma seems to be solved. So ANT it won't be...
Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
I have no clue what's the issue ... 2 tourneys in a Row :/
Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lemnear
I have no clue what's the issue ... 2 tourneys in a Row :/
Issue is that I was given a sign from above and will sell the ANT.
And seriously, seeing that Clique was one of the most annoying moments in the whole 17 years I play MtG. Next time I'd rather enroll to a dice-roll olympiade than join another tournament...
Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bed Decks Palyer
Issue is that I was given a sign from above and will sell the ANT.
And seriously, seeing that Clique was one of the most annoying moments in the whole 17 years I play MtG. Next time I'd rather enroll to a dice-roll olympiade than join another tournament...
Sign from above? Your opponent got lucky. It doesn't matter what deck you're playing if your opponent is a lucksack who rips what they need when they need it.
Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bed Decks Palyer
Issue is that I was given a sign from above and will sell the ANT.
And seriously, seeing that Clique was one of the most annoying moments in the whole 17 years I play MtG. Next time I'd rather enroll to a dice-roll olympiade than join another tournament...
You should see some of the games I've played on stream where I got nutsacked all over my clever deck by a host of mediocre decks. That's the variance of MTG. Suck it up and learn to not internalize it. It's part of the game. Playing a combo deck will especially be brutal on that swings because the deck is so unforgiving compared to something like StoneBlade.
Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
I joined Source to make an informed decission on which deck to keep. ANT is the first deck to go. And I say good riddance.
Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
I will happily relieve you of your ANT deck, lol.
In the interest of helping you decide which deck to work with next, what is it about ANT that is not doing it for you? From the look of it, you are having consistency issues, and it sounds like from what you say it is not a piloting issue, just bad luck. Also, it looks like you pilot everything, from what I've seen around the forum, lol. You probably don't think so, but I would venture to say that that alone would greatly impact your success with the deck. But, your decision is your decision.
Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
Hi guys,
I'm currently testing:
Maindeck
4x Polluted Delta
3x Flooded Strand
3x Underground Sea
1x Volcanis Island
1x Tropical Island
2x Island
1x Swamp
1x Tendrils of Agony
1x Ad Nauseam
1x Past in Flames
1x Grim Tutor
4x Infernal Tutor
4x Lion’s Eye Diamond
4x Lotus Petal
4x Dark Ritual
4x Cabal Ritual
4x Gitaxian Probe
4x Brainstorm
4x Ponder
2x Preordain
4x Duress
3x Cabal Therapy
Sideboard
4x Dark Confidant
2x Xantid Swarm
3x Dread of Night
3x Abrupt Decay
2x Chain of Vapor
1x Karakas
It works great, and I'm happy to use my Grim Tutor again. I used to play some Burning Wish lists, but after a lot of debate I think that this list works better. I can now play a more diverse sideboard and feel more consistent! But when decks like Maverick were more popular I didn't want to loose to a turn 2 zenith for Teeg.
While testing I keep changing my sideboard. My last change was +3 Dread of Night and -2 Surgical Extraction -1 Slaughter Pact, because Mom + Thalia (and Mindcensor) were such a pain in the ass. However, I did some nasty stuff with Surgical vs Reanimate and it could even be played in the Mirror, so I'm not completely sure yet. Most of you will probably argue with me that Dark Confidant is not good enough, but I've won a lot of games vs decks like Shardless BUG on the back of Confidant, while their discard would otherwise destroy me. Confidant can also be played against Jund and Esper Blade, or some slower control decks. The fact that you can flashback Cabal Therapy is also a huge benefit in the turn you want to go off.
Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bjholmes3
I will happily relieve you of your ANT deck, lol.
Sell threads/posts (moreover off topic) are not welcome here, so lets keep this for the PMs. :smile:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bjholmes3
In the interest of helping you decide which deck to work with next, what is it about ANT that is not doing it for you? From the look of it, you are having consistency issues, and it sounds like from what you say it is not a piloting issue, just bad luck.
Yep, true, at least to some degree.
I won't start about what's wrong about ANT as once I decided, there's no reason to poke in it anymore, except that not answering your question would be arrogant.
Basically it boils down to the fact that I feel like I've got enough of fighting through hate over and over again and losing to some random card been not some other random card, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bjholmes3
Also, it looks like you pilot everything, from what I've seen around the forum, lol.
Correct. :smile:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bjholmes3
You probably don't think so...
Incorrect. :tongue:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bjholmes3
...but I would venture to say that that alone would greatly impact your success with the deck.
Correct.
But normally I stay true to one deck for a longer period, at least several months, sometimes even more. (Speaking of ANT, I played it for one-and-a-half year in a row.)
Right now I play as many decks as possible to get an overall idea of what is keepable and what isn't, to start the trimming of cards some time towards the end of year. Also, sometimes I just play for fun, but sadly Terrageddon is completely obsolete and I keep it just for the nostalgia reasons.
So yes, I know this affects my results, otoh, I lack time to tinker with decks for years and the more I lose the better, at least it forces me to make some decission at all...
/off topic
I'm leaving the thread as there's nothing more for me to learn and there's nothing more than whinning that I may bring, so my pressence would be hardly wished for. I may peek one or two more times just in case, but unless something drastic happens, good bye, fellow Stormers. gl, hf! :cool::smile:
Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
So I have an ignorant n00b question about this deck. I've played ANT for about 3 months now, trying to get my head wrapped around it and I'm doing pretty well with it at this point. I decided to take some time to give TES a try as well, and it's just so much less reliable, and way clunkier. I know it's more explosive, but I couldn't bring myself to keep playing it. However, the one thing I really liked about it over ANT was the choice of Silence over some of the discard. My meta has a not insignificant amount of Show and Tell variants, all of which run Leyline of Sanctity, and Silence is SOOOO much better at helping you beat leyline than Xantid Swarm or any of the other options (especially since you get to play silences maindeck and you can still bring in swarms if you want, you have fewer bricks in your hand games 2 and 3 if they open on leyline).
I find myself wondering why there isn't a version of ANT that plays Silence instead of discard. I mocked it up and goldfished quite a bit, and while you take a little more damage from your lands (due to unfortunately having to run city of brass), it really didn't feel like I had that much trouble with my manabase, even allowing for wastelands at times. I chose to play 4 City of Brass and 0 Gemstone Mine because of all the cantripping, I prefer to have my lands not die, but that could easily be adjusted to some split, if necessary, the rest of my manabase was 2 Underground, 1 Volcanic, 1 Trop, 1 Tundra, 6 blue duals. (total of 15 lands). I took a standard ANT list, trimmed 1 preordain, and ran 4 Silence, 2 Duress, 1 Cabal Therapy.
This idea seems so obvious to me that I can only assume someone else has tried it and it hasn't been successful. Silence just seems so much better to me than discard in a lot of matchups, for reasons I'm pretty sure I don't need to lay out here. Can someone explain to me why this is a bad idea, if it is?
Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jeff
So I have an ignorant n00b question about this deck. I've played ANT for about 3 months now, trying to get my head wrapped around it and I'm doing pretty well with it at this point. I decided to take some time to give TES a try as well, and it's just so much less reliable, and way clunkier. I know it's more explosive, but I couldn't bring myself to keep playing it. However, the one thing I really liked about it over ANT was the choice of Silence over some of the discard. My meta has a not insignificant amount of Show and Tell variants, all of which run Leyline of Sanctity, and Silence is SOOOO much better at helping you beat leyline than Xantid Swarm or any of the other options (especially since you get to play silences maindeck and you can still bring in swarms if you want, you have fewer bricks in your hand games 2 and 3 if they open on leyline).
I find myself wondering why there isn't a version of ANT that plays Silence instead of discard. I mocked it up and goldfished quite a bit, and while you take a little more damage from your lands (due to unfortunately having to run city of brass), it really didn't feel like I had that much trouble with my manabase, even allowing for wastelands at times. I chose to play 4 City of Brass and 0 Gemstone Mine because of all the cantripping, I prefer to have my lands not die, but that could easily be adjusted to some split, if necessary, the rest of my manabase was 2 Underground, 1 Volcanic, 1 Trop, 1 Tundra, 6 blue duals. (total of 15 lands). I took a standard ANT list, trimmed 1 preordain, and ran 4 Silence, 2 Duress, 1 Cabal Therapy.
This idea seems so obvious to me that I can only assume someone else has tried it and it hasn't been successful. Silence just seems so much better to me than discard in a lot of matchups, for reasons I'm pretty sure I don't need to lay out here. Can someone explain to me why this is a bad idea, if it is?
There is some development of silence within this thread, I suggest you skim from the beginning to find it. the manabase at that point becomes kind of obnoxious and you may as well be playing doomsday or TES at that point. i don't quite understand how you have come to the conclusion that silence is better since show and tell places a xantid swarm into play for free alot of the time and silence costs a mana on your combo turn( and can still be countered). with show and tell they just gave you an uncounterable silence effect. and the mana you saved can now be spent chaining the leyline back to their hand so you can win.
also cutting fetches is pretty rough they are one of your best filtering tools for card selection. with no fetches you as well just play more rainbow lands and play TES
Honestly i have not played within the past 6 months much so the new show and tell mono blue dream halls decks may be a bit harder since when they resolve show and tell they win. so i am not so sure how that one plays out.
Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
I agree, adding a fifth color to ANT seems counterintuitive. One of ANT's strengths, compared to other storm combo decks, is it's manabase. By not splashing in the fifth color you get to play with basics and more fetch lands, which are really good with Ponders and Brainstorms. Also, having less colors means your digging for straight combo pieces and disruption, and not wasting time looking to fix mana. Consider the following opener:
Dark Ritual, Ponder, Polluted Delta, Lion's Eye Diamond, Duress, Infernal Tutor, Preordain.
Assume you are on the play. This hand seems very keepable. It has ever element that you want, business spell, protection, acceleration. With this hand, my goal would be to cantrip turn one getting Underground Sea. Duress cantrip turn two, which gives me perfect information and allows me to cantrip into exactly what I need. Assuming there is no more protection needed, I can look for more rituals to Past in Flames or go for an Ad Nauseam if the second turn cantrip doesn't show any extra mana sources to combo.
Now, take the same hand into consideration replacing Duress with Silence. Instead of getting an Underground Sea and molding your hands as you want and disrupting while protecting, you would have to be looking for the proper mana to go off and protect. This hand has a 26.4% chance to draw a land on your first draw step, 27.4% on turn 2 if you reshuffle with your cantrips and don't draw a land. This means you're probably shuffling away cards that you would normally want with Duress or Cabal Therapy. Also, since we do not have access to Chrome Mox, our combo will become slower because you need an extra mana to go off the turn that you do. Another point to keep in consideration is if we were to start replacing any fetch lands with more rainbow lands, our graveyard will fill up slower, which can and will be relevant.
The more you try to incorporate silence into ANT the more it will turn into TES. Stick with which ever you seem more fond of playing and accept that neither decks does everything better than the previous one.
The reason you like Silence better against Show and Tell versus discard is simple, TES is better against combo decks than ANT. The fact that you have a superior combo protector and disruption spell and you clock them a whole turn faster, gives them less time to dig for both combo pieces and disruption and protection spells on their end. I just picked up ANT but played TES for quite some time, and I was always impressed with the combo matchup while piloting TES. I haven't gotten to play in a big tournament with ANT yet , but my assumption that TES being better versus combo seems logical.
Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jeff
So I have an ignorant n00b question about this deck. I've played ANT for about 3 months now, trying to get my head wrapped around it and I'm doing pretty well with it at this point. I decided to take some time to give TES a try as well, and it's just so much less reliable, and way clunkier. I know it's more explosive, but I couldn't bring myself to keep playing it. However, the one thing I really liked about it over ANT was the choice of Silence over some of the discard. My meta has a not insignificant amount of Show and Tell variants, all of which run Leyline of Sanctity, and Silence is SOOOO much better at helping you beat leyline than Xantid Swarm or any of the other options (especially since you get to play silences maindeck and you can still bring in swarms if you want, you have fewer bricks in your hand games 2 and 3 if they open on leyline).
I find myself wondering why there isn't a version of ANT that plays Silence instead of discard. I mocked it up and goldfished quite a bit, and while you take a little more damage from your lands (due to unfortunately having to run city of brass), it really didn't feel like I had that much trouble with my manabase, even allowing for wastelands at times. I chose to play 4 City of Brass and 0 Gemstone Mine because of all the cantripping, I prefer to have my lands not die, but that could easily be adjusted to some split, if necessary, the rest of my manabase was 2 Underground, 1 Volcanic, 1 Trop, 1 Tundra, 6 blue duals. (total of 15 lands). I took a standard ANT list, trimmed 1 preordain, and ran 4 Silence, 2 Duress, 1 Cabal Therapy.
This idea seems so obvious to me that I can only assume someone else has tried it and it hasn't been successful. Silence just seems so much better to me than discard in a lot of matchups, for reasons I'm pretty sure I don't need to lay out here. Can someone explain to me why this is a bad idea, if it is?
It is possible, but Iggy is unreliable engine and PiF would be a bit unstable (maybe ok with one Volc), besides "stable manabase" the all in one color is much bigger stability factor TES does not have (you have to play weird sequence of Silence, RoF, DR sometimes) ... again rainbow lands is not way to go... tundra+scrubland and W SB seems kind of ok, I tried splahing W before (for sb Grand Abolisher which is insane, while SS heavily underplayed) but disliked the Silence and white lands just for sb are not worth it. I don't see silence as better vs. Show and Tell, it's better vs S&T with LoS in play a year ago seeing LoS used to be sign of bad player for me... Swarm is FoW or die and dodges SP, Silence doesn't stop their combo, Leyline inself makes their keeps much weaker, if they don't have it you rip them apart with discard, if they do you have time, if they have combo, LoS and countermagic it's acceptable loss and still their is a good habit of having some bounce in SB... btw. Dark Confidant used to be great with S&T w LoS, other options are available - Needle, Karakas, Pyroblast...
