[Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

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Originally Posted by Bryant Cook

Not likely, I didn't take any notes as it was a side event. I could write stuff from memory, but it wouldn't be completely worthwhile.

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that's too bad. I guess i'll still have to figure out how to battle reanimator =/

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Originally Posted by Togores

So with the 13 land deck u never got flooded?

Do you sided out the tropical in some matches?

how good where the 2 chain of vapor? im still not sure if they are so good. Usualy I would prefer another decay and xantid.

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I still am not 100% sure about going back to 3 CMs (just because I am enjoying cabal ritual so much), but the extra land is great. It's not like there is a HUGE difference between 12 to 13 lands. it is still a "wastable" land to cantrip T1 if you want to play around wasteland

Also, chain of vapor is great. It helps against hate, and you can use it to proactively increase the storm count. It can help a lot against leyline and reanimator , and it's better protection against burn, since they are playing 4 eidolons main, which can be a huge pain =/

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Originally Posted by Lemnear

What happened in the SneakShow matchup?

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I was at 2 life game one with Tendrils for 28 on the stack against my opponent. She tried to Misdirect a copy to kill me? That doesn't work. She calls a floor judge who rules it, in fact, does kill me. I lose game 2. I should have appealed to the head judge. The floor judge later apologizes for being an idiot.

I was pretty titled. Never had a reason before to appeal a judge ruling before. Felt pretty awful.

Game two she casts Show and Tell and drops in Emrakul. I drop in Xantid Swarm. I can only Tendrils for 14. She's at 15. I lose. She was very salty about winning, too. Sometimes I just don't understand people.

I didn't play Pithing Needle. Replaced them with 1 Massacre and the third Xantid Swarm. Didn't want needle all day. Massacre helped me beat Elves and killed a flipped delver and TNN against UWR Delver to buy enough time to win the game.

Also, people in the Midwest are idiots. Everyone that cast Meddling Mage against me named Tendrils of Agony. Both did so with perfect information of my hand knowing I'd win the following turn.

Didn't play out the last round for $50 because I honestly didn't care about the money. Just wanted to go home and enjoy the rest of my vacation.

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Originally Posted by RaNDoMxGeSTuReS

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Also, people in the Midwest are idiots. Everyone that cast Meddling Mage against me named Tendrils of Agony. Both did so with perfect information of my hand knowing I'd win the following turn.

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Well, did they have lethal on board? cause if they don't havet, you can still empty the warrens and attack them on the following turn.

Also, if you have enough storm, you could simply grapeshot them all the way. It wouldn't be showboating them in this situation...

(I am aware that tendrils is better, but there were other lines you could try to play around pikula... you should be thankful they didn't name burning wish. cause then you would be dead on the spot )

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Originally Posted by seilaquem

Well, did they have lethal on board? cause if they don't havet, you can still empty the warrens and attack them on the following turn.

Also, if you have enough storm, you could simply grapeshot them all the way. It wouldn't be showboating them in this situation...

(I am aware that tendrils is better, but there were other lines you could try to play around pikula... you should be thankful they didn't name burning wish. cause then you would be dead on the spot )

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She had Emrakul in play?

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Originally Posted by seilaquem

Well, did they have lethal on board? cause if they don't havet, you can still empty the warrens and attack them on the following turn.

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He just mentioned he could storm for 7, so that's 14 goblins. 6 of which would die to Emrakul, leaving 8, to attack his opponent down to 7 life, then lose on the second attack to lethal damage.

That's a bad suggestion.

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Originally Posted by Koby

He just mentioned he could storm for 7, so that's 14 goblins. 6 of which would die to Emrakul, leaving 8, to attack his opponent down to 7 life, then lose on the second attack to lethal damage.

That's a bad suggestion.

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sorry, that comment was addressed to the meddling mage problem. He complained he couldn't win against a meddling mage naming tendrils. I just answered how he could play around it. (just edited the post)

Unless the S&Show was a UWR variant that played meddling mage...

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Originally Posted by seilaquem

I still am not 100% sure about going back to 3 CMs (just because I am enjoying cabal ritual so much), but the extra land is great. It's not like there is a HUGE difference between 12 to 13 lands. it is still a "wastable" land to cantrip T1 if you want to play around wasteland

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There is a big difference in having 20 initial mana sources vs 18 for Ad Nauseam flips aka Self-inflicted damage, opening hands, mulligans and to overcome softcounters.

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Originally Posted by Lemnear

There is a big difference in having 20 initial mana sources vs 18 for Ad Nauseam flips aka Self-inflicted damage, opening hands, mulligans and to overcome softcounters.

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Yeah, i thought about it considering the count of lands only, but I wasn't considering IMSs in the deck. thats a great POV that I hadn't considered. Thanks a lot =)

I was already convinced that the tropical belonged to the main, since it's a great way to fight against tempo strategies.

So I'll just try the 3rd mox on main and remove the cabal rituals... it's more directed to the "2nd/3rd turn kill" of TES.

Guess I was playing the deck more focused like an ANT deck.

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Originally Posted by seilaquem

sorry, that comment was addressed to the meddling mage problem. He complained he couldn't win against a meddling mage naming tendrils. I just answered how he could play around it. (just edited the post)

Unless the S&Show was a UWR variant that played meddling mage...

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I killed both UWR Delver opponents with Empty the Warrens when they had Meddling Mage out?

I didn't complain, nor did I say I couldn't win against a Meddling Mage. Learn to read.

For example, my opponent probes me and sees Dark Ritual, LED, Infernal Tutor, Land. He still named Tendrils of Agony with his Meddling Mage. Why the hell would you do that given perfect knowledge of my hand?

The thing is -- no you wouldn't.

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Originally Posted by Bryant Cook

Won a 139 player side event at GP:Worchester for a foil set of Modern Masters. Deck felt very good and my Ad Nauseams were noticeably better.

I played with Needles both events and never was able to cast them despite siding them in three or four times. Void Snare was used three times, once to bounce a Leyline and then Iona & Goblin Guide (believe it or not! it gave me lethal with Empty tokens).

2-0 Esper Deathblade
2-0 Omnitell
2-0 NicFit
2-1 bUrg Delver
2-0 UWr Delver
2-0 UR Delver
1-2 UWR Delver (Jared Beottcher)

Top 4

2-0 UWR Delver (Jared Beottcher)
2-0 Shardless BUG (Two turn 1 ETW = 14 with Therapies)

I also took down a win-a-box defeating Reanimator twice.

2-1 Reanimator
2-1 Elves
2-1 Reanimator

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How have you sided vs the UWR variants and BURG Delver?

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Originally Posted by RaNDoMxGeSTuReS

I was at 2 life game one with Tendrils for 28 on the stack against my opponent. She tried to Misdirect a copy to kill me? That doesn't work. She calls a floor judge who rules it, in fact, does kill me. I lose game 2. I should have appealed to the head judge. The floor judge later apologizes for being an idiot.

I was pretty titled. Never had a reason before to appeal a judge ruling before. Felt pretty awful.

Game two she casts Show and Tell and drops in Emrakul. I drop in Xantid Swarm. I can only Tendrils for 14. She's at 15. I lose. She was very salty about winning, too. Sometimes I just don't understand people.

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Sorry to hear that, man. I don't know what I would have done after I realized the judge's mistake. Cooler heads prevail... and winners should never be salty. End of story.

As for idiots naming Tendrils with Mage, I hope to play more of these Magicians in the future, that's for sure.

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Originally Posted by Lemnear

There is a big difference in having 20 initial mana sources vs 18 for Ad Nauseam flips aka Self-inflicted damage, opening hands, mulligans and to overcome softcounters.

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Yeah, I play the 13th land in my list (tropical island) as well. But to be honest, I'm not sure it's the right call. I only do it because I'm running out of sideboard slots, and trying to be greedy by running both Pyroclasm and Massacre in the board. It becomes a "null" card in game 1 most of the time, and then I'm wondering why I don't just play a 4th Chrome Mox or even a Preordain.

But then I remember how bad a 4th Chrome Mox is, and I regain my senses.

Game 1 the tropical island is pretty much a wastable island, and Game 2 and 3 when I side vs. Miracles I bring in the hate stuff and side out the second Volcanic Island, bringing me to 12 lands anyways.

So what am I trying to say here? I do run 13 lands main, but I'm not sure it's right. But I'm pretty comfortable with it, so I do it. My suggestion is to do what makes you comfortable, and not necessarily what everyone does, or what Bryant does (sorry Bryant). This is a math-heavy deck, but sometimes you need some sub-optimal configurations to give you that irrational edge/comfort zone.

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Originally Posted by Plague Sliver

Yeah, I play the 13th land in my list (tropical island) as well. But to be honest, I'm not sure it's the right call. I only do it because I'm running out of sideboard slots, and trying to be greedy by running both Pyroclasm and Massacre in the board. It becomes a "null" card in game 1 most of the time, and then I'm wondering why I don't just play a 4th Chrome Mox or even a Preordain.

But then I remember how bad a 4th Chrome Mox is, and I regain my senses.

Game 1 the tropical island is pretty much a wastable island, and Game 2 and 3 when I side vs. Miracles I bring in the hate stuff and side out the second Volcanic Island, bringing me to 12 lands anyways.

So what am I trying to say here? I do run 13 lands main, but I'm not sure it's right. But I'm pretty comfortable with it, so I do it. My suggestion is to do what makes you comfortable, and not necessarily what everyone does, or what Bryant does (sorry Bryant). This is a math-heavy deck, but sometimes you need some sub-optimal configurations to give you that irrational edge/comfort zone.

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I was trying Simian Spirit Guide as my sixtieth, it was an ok slot. However, I'm not sure if having room for another chain of vapor in the board and averting the 3CMC monkey is worth carrying Trop in the main (http://puu.sh/avlf1/b117007667.png). Conversely, I'm not sure the extra accel is worth the volatility of flips off ad nauseam just to have the slightly more focused initial 60 (SSG is pretty much the worth Rit effect, not even a spell, etc). I wouldn't just play whatever "feels comfortable", though, even if your sixty+fifteen is only marginally better when youve found that long-researched configuration, you should still be testing to find that true-optimal 75.

I'd like to point out that thirteen lands isn't some new crazy revelation, we've ran that many before. It just happened that we shaved a land when making room for Gitaxian Probe.

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Originally Posted by Bryant Cook

I'd like to point out that thirteen lands isn't some new crazy revelation, we've ran that many before. It just happened that we shaved a land when making room for Gitaxian Probe.

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I recently finished reading all the old TES threads, and it is intriguing that both the sideboard Infernal Tutor and 13th land have come up before. I just wish the 13th land didn't have to be a Trop. It's also kinda funny that so many posts in the old threads were about a shortage of good rainbow lands, and now when we have mana confluence we're at a point in time where we're sporting duals and fetches instead.

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Originally Posted by wonderPreaux

I recently finished reading all the old TES threads, and it is intriguing that both the sideboard Infernal Tutor and 13th land have come up before. I just wish the 13th land didn't have to be a Trop. It's also kinda funny that so many posts in the old threads were about a shortage of good rainbow lands, and now when we have mana confluence we're at a point in time where we're sporting duals and fetches instead.

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I don't know why this should be surprising. The deck is no longer 5 colored and because of the powercreep in the game, the deck was required to maximize it's cantrips further and gaining a more stable manabase. The times, in which you could afford to eat damage with every tapping of a land or could play "land, go" for 3-4 turns, like AJ Kerrigan did in his very youth, just to kill your opponent with a single Silence and near full life, are long passed.

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Originally Posted by Lemnear

I don't know why this should be surprising. The deck is no longer 5 colored and because of the powercreep in the game, the deck was required to maximize it's cantrips further and gaining a more stable manabase. The times, in which you could afford to eat damage with every tapping of a land or could play "land, go" for 3-4 turns, like AJ Kerrigan did in his very youth, just to kill your opponent with a single Silence and near full life, are long passed.

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It is just amusing to think that we could pretty easily run all 5c lands if we wanted now, but its not even relevant anymore. if every other deck has higher card quality (and some decks from a couple years ago don't exist anymore because they didn't get higher card quality) and stable operations then this deck would have to tune itself to that same caliber as well.

On a larger overall topic, does anyone else think the list for TES, as a whole, is kinda "locked in" at this point? It seems like, now that it's effectively preboarded for the meta and cramming all the haymakers we can fit into a 75, that there just isn't a lot to change anymore. Anytime I see a TES list that topped a daily, and it's running some tech like Telemin or Ignorant Bliss in the board, I just think "well, to make room, theres no card X, so this guy is just dropping matches to deck Y..." while the current list with Pithing Needle feels really balanced generally. Does anyone else have that same feeling looking at the Needle list that it's the end of flex-slots barring some huge meta shift or, heaven forbid, we actually get new relevant cards for combo?

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Originally Posted by wonderPreaux

On a larger overall topic, does anyone else think the list for TES, as a whole, is kinda "locked in" at this point? It seems like, now that it's effectively preboarded for the meta and cramming all the haymakers we can fit into a 75, that there just isn't a lot to change anymore. Anytime I see a TES list that topped a daily, and it's running some tech like Telemin or Ignorant Bliss in the board, I just think "well, to make room, theres no card X, so this guy is just dropping matches to deck Y..." while the current list with Pithing Needle feels really balanced generally. Does anyone else have that same feeling looking at the Needle list that it's the end of flex-slots barring some huge meta shift or, heaven forbid, we actually get new relevant cards for combo?

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Nothing is ever "locked". I read such stuff back then we ran 4 Silence, 2 Duress, 1 Therapy and 2 more in the board until I annoyed the shit out of this thread with my "we need more Therapies in the MB due to Gitaxian Probe and EtW!" and we all switched to 3 Silence and 4 Therapy then, just to shook up the "locked slots" of Silences and Rainbows with our all switch to discard-only shortly later.

The beauty of the deck is it's ability to adjust itself to any metagame change within a short period of time and it wouldn't be groundbreaking news if we return to silence at some point in the future if the metagame shifts once more in the white instants favor. I'm no romantic in terms of creating a stale image of a deck in my head as people did in the past with comment like "TES' signature card is Silence and without it, the deck is Burning ANT or TNT!".

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Originally Posted by wonderPreaux

I recently finished reading all the old TES threads, and it is intriguing that both the sideboard Infernal Tutor and 13th land have come up before. I just wish the 13th land didn't have to be a Trop. It's also kinda funny that so many posts in the old threads were about a shortage of good rainbow lands, and now when we have mana confluence we're at a point in time where we're sporting duals and fetches instead.

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The era of 3 I.T. base was the era of Mainly 2 Mystical Tutor main. (2 more threats than now) If I wanted to include a land I will include likely a fetch, but I dont think 1 slot in side is enough reason to put in a nonsense Land instead of I.T. for all your first games.

Apart, can anyone answer me to the question about how Bryant sided vs BUG and UWR? and I have other question: was Grapeshot relevant in any of the match ups and on averall?
Thanks.

Against Jared he boarded in 2 Decays and the Tendrils; kept EtW in too.

Guys, boarding on the fly should become natural and your knowledge gained by spotting your next round opponents or by chatting with them should flow directly into your boarding plans instead of strict +/- sheets preciously constructed. Some Miracles pilots side out Terminus, some won't; this should affect your plan of keeping EtW or not as well as considering to board in xantids. The same is true for RUG Delver if they board out 1-2 Bolts for flusterstorms or the like: suddenly Xantids are appealing.

In all honest, all information in regards to boarding and how to approach matchups is in the OP and the exact plans should be deceloped on the fly instead of thinking in Patterns

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Originally Posted by Lemnear

Against Jared he boarded in 2 Decays and the Tendrils; kept EtW in too.

Guys, boarding on the fly should become natural and your knowledge gained by spotting your next round opponents or by chatting with them should flow directly into your boarding plans instead of strict +/- sheets preciously constructed. Some Miracles pilots side out Terminus, some won't; this should affect your plan of keeping EtW or not as well as considering to board in xantids. The same is true for RUG Delver if they board out 1-2 Bolts for flusterstorms or the like: suddenly Xantids are appealing.

In all honest, all information in regards to boarding and how to approach matchups is in the OP and the exact plans should be deceloped on the fly instead of thinking in Patterns

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Yes, side-boarding should be natural, adaptive and most importantly based on understanding. You are correct that strict sheets of +/- often under perform and are not the way to go.

I believe you exaggerate "boarding on the fly" however. There is still a correct, optimum sideboard based on defaults for a given match-up that should be used as a baseline and known before entering an event. Yes, there will be changes based on the opposing player and I'm not saying it's "set in stone", as information you receive will change your plan.

Sure, if they board out Terminus, you can use Empty the Warrens. Yes, Xantid Swarm is appealing if they are boarding out 1/2 Flusterstorms for Lightning Bolt. You're right in both of these cases, but realistically, how often are you going to be able to gather such precise information? 15% of the time?

Of course, there will be random scenarios where you know the guy, or you overheard him talking to his friends before the game. But for most other occasions, even if we assume the pilot is some master of the mind who knows 50% of the time exactly what is going out and coming in, it's still worth taking the time to create and discuss an optimum default sideboard strategy for the match-up.

I would argue, that even at 50%, unless you have good & solid information, that side-boarding away from this optimum configuration based on your 'gut' is more likely to get you blown out. If your information is good & solid, then by all means, stray from the path and use that advantage. Otherwise, just like the main-deck, there is a correct default and following this will often yield more consistent results.