[DTB] Team America (Aggro/Tempo Thread)

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Originally Posted by deadlock

Personally, i would reduce my ld package and mainly try to stick 1-2 threats, protect them and deny theirs. While ld can be quite good against Aggro Loam, it can suck aswell in other games, depending on their draw.

Actual sb strategy depends on the board you run ofc, mine looks like this:

SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [TE] Diabolic Edict
SB: 2 [SOK] Pithing Needle
SB: 4 [UL] Engineered Plague
SB: 3 [B] Blue Elemental Blast

On the play, i propably would go for:
+2-3 Blast
+3 Edict
-4 Sinkhole (You still have Wastelands and Stifle to slow them down).
-1 Stifle (Maybe cutting more for Grip if i fear Chalice that much)

On the draw, side out Dazes and maybe go for ~2 Grips just in case, beside cutting Sinkholes.


Concerning EE, foremost its slow. The only creature with Shroud that matters is Geese, which gets outclassed by our threats. Against swarm decks there is Plague (if they are tribal) or spot removal.
Btw. some people may try to kill you for running Extirpate in this deck..

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Explosives is almost as fast as Edict and way better at clearing threats. What is Edict supposed to hit? Progenitus? If your opponent has 4 mana to go Natural Order AND has the counter backup, you've already lost.

When I say swarm decks I also mean Zoo and GoyfSligh which are a BIG problem for this deck. EE is REALLY good here. You can't just go all in with Snuff Out or you'll eat 10 burn damage in response. You have to play control in those matchups.

Dredge is popular in my area and IMO Extirpate on a Bridge or an Ichorid is just as crippling as Crypt, Relic, or Planar Void, but they can't needle, bounce, or wispmare it and that's key. Hit both their bridges and Ichorids and it's over. Plus it does double duty against Loam and storm combo. Yixlid Jailer isn't bad either.

Edict hits Tombstalker, Mystic Enforcer, Morphling, Doran, or Hyppie, While on two lands, at instant speed. This deck doesn't play a lot of lands, and doesn't like tapping out two turns in a row. EE might help v. merfolk, but I'm not sure it's enough.

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Originally Posted by Carabas

Edict hits Tombstalker, Mystic Enforcer, Morphling, Doran, or Hyppie, While on two lands, at instant speed. This deck doesn't play a lot of lands, and doesn't like tapping out two turns in a row. EE might help v. merfolk, but I'm not sure it's enough.

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+Moongoose ... which was seeing a whole lot more play back when the board was developed.

So apparently Magic guru and expert Stephen Mennendian doesn't think too much of this deck:

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Team America

This deck doesn’t run Dark Confidant! [That’s me laughing out loud] Put this deck up against mine, and I’ll out tempo it even on its own terms. Unless you have a truly inferior hand, you’re not going to lose this match. Thoughtseize/Duress is really huge here as well. You have the same plays but better cards instead of junk like Sinkhole or slow garbage like Tombstalker. Daze is huge in this matchup.

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Quote from http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/l...evel_Blue.html

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Originally Posted by MTG-Fan

So apparently Magic guru and expert Stephen Mennendian doesn't think too much of this deck:



Quote from http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/l...evel_Blue.html

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I don't know if you've heard or not, but if he wasn't the one to create or, ahem, "innovate" the deck, it's likely not any good.

Well shit, I didn't know Tombstalker was "slow garbage". Thanks for this, I'll be changing that spot to Confidant and Sinkhole to Spell Snare immediately.

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Originally Posted by nitewolf9

Well shit, I didn't know Tombstalker was "slow garbage".

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Still, you could concur that TA cannot power a Stalker as fast as Eva Green. But it is by no mean "slow" nor garbage !

In TA, I hate having them in multiple in the first 3 turns for the previous statement : can't play them as easily as EG could. So I 've made a light change to the critter base of TA recently and run only 3 stalkers and drop one SSnare to make rooms for 2 other beaters.

I thought Coatl were good enough, but it was too slow and not reliable. After that I've tested 2x Vendillion Clique and I am pretty happy with it.

They are additional (but mid-game) disruption, and this alone fills the -2 power gap between the Fairies and the Stalker. This, and UU1 is easiest to achieve than BBx in the deck.

If there is still some TA lovers here, I encourage you to test this configuration.

You run Spell Snare? In the Thoughtseize or Sinkhole spot? I wouldn't ever play less than 4 Daze.

I agree that 4 Stalker can be excessive, and Clique is really good.

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Originally Posted by keys

I agree that 4 Stalker can be excessive, and Clique is really good.

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I might run 5 or 6 Stalkers if I could. They are extremely robust and difficult to deal with. Every other creature is going to pale in comparison to Stalker or Goyf. To run less than 4 is not really justifiable. You also run Brainstorm and Ponder to filter your draws, something Eva Green does not have the luxury of. This deck also puts tons of cards in the yard throughout the game.

I must ask this, so if I offend anyone I apologize in advance.


Why in the world would I play this deck? Ignoring that I would need to shell out money for Sinkholes (which cost more as much as stupidoyf, but are more limited), this deck looks like a bastard child of Tempo Thresh. Just as weak to graveyard hate, has no reach, a lot of it's removal/disrpution kills you and is weaker to moon-decks. God forbid they bounce your Tombstalker after casting it.

If this deck was considered a Tier 1 and Tempo-Thresh was not Tier 1, I'd be a bit more understanding. However, I refuse to not question the fact that a weaker version of tempo thresh is given consideration.

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Originally Posted by keys

You run Spell Snare? In the Thoughtseize or Sinkhole spot? I wouldn't ever play less than 4 Daze.

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Sinkhole switch indeed. I ran too many times into Dazes or Snares or being cut from early BB in games vs thresh (which's supposed to be an overall good matchup).

I know NiteWolf and Deep6er will curse me for doing this, but hey, David Gearheart is apparently out of the net and I'm used to be flamed btw XD

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Originally Posted by DragoFireheart

I must ask this, so if I offend anyone I apologize in advance.


Why in the world would I play this deck? (...)
I refuse to not question the fact that a weaker version of tempo thresh is given consideration.

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You play TA for Kudos and Style points obv. !!

Hi there, i basically registeres to share some thoughts on this great deck =).

4 Tombstalker
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Phyrexian Dreadnought

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Stifle
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Thoughtseize
3 Snuff Out
4 Sinkhole

4 Wasteland
4 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
1 Bloodstained Mire
3 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
1 Island
1 Swamp

Sideboard:
3 Tormod's Crypt
4 Blue Elemental Blast
3 Krosan Grip
3 Diabolic Edict
2 Dark Confidant


This is the list which i have been testing on MWS for some days, since i consider building this deck for the next upcomeing tournaments. The changes are rather small, but the helped me to realize some things:

While the Dreadnought will leave the deck, i will not put in the 4th snuff out again, i'm even thinking of cutting another one. In most matchups i don#t have a target that is worth 4 lifes, or i can't afford to sac 4 lifes (playing against Goyf/Sligh, Eva Green and the likes). I also like the idea of having more threads, 8 is ok most of the time, but more would add consistency to power out a beater on turn 2 or 3.

Im still looking for candidates though, I played some games with the Leech, but it just sucks. If i don't find anything i'll just go with an additional cantrip in that spot ot try out 1 or two Reanimate.

The basic lands are King, the Manabase seems to work out like this so there is no reason to not include them.

The SB is still a place to tinker around, i couldnt test EP up to now, but i really wanna have Bob, he wins a ridiculous amount of games because the strong midgame is worth the tempoloss (imo).

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Originally Posted by lolosoon

You play TA for Kudos and Style points obv. !!

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Well, this is an obvious answer, but I was looking for a response in the application of the deck.

You could say kudos and style points for most non-tier 1 decks (Vial Wizards? That new Hypergenesis deck?)

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Originally Posted by DragoFireheart

Well, this is an obvious answer, but I was looking for a response in the application of the deck.

You could say kudos and style points for most non-tier 1 decks (Vial Wizards? That new Hypergenesis deck?)

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I like to think of TA as the uber Tempo Thresh. Where it's less versatile and more vulnerable, it makes up for it with bigger threats and faster, more disruptive spells. Take a look:

• Thoughtseize is a stronger, preemptive Spell Snare, for 2 life.
• Sinkhole is a much more defined Fire/Ice (blasting lands instead of tapping them down, or damage).
• Snuff Out, in contrast to Lightning Bolt, is free, nukes creatures with asses bigger than 3, but it burns you for 4 and can't target players and black creatures.
• Tombstalker is a bigger, evasive, albeit riskier Mongoose due to its targetability and variable casting cost.

There are other subtle differences which affect specific matchups. TA's access to discard is good versus combo, and E Plague is solid against tribal. On the other hand, Pyroblast and Mongoose are MVPs versus control. That's just a few...

Hi there!

I've never posted anything here, but I'm here today with good news....

I've never played Team America until last saturday, when I got 3rt on a Legacy championship at Grand Prix São Paulo.

I used a little bit different list, with some techs of other decks.

1x Bloodstained Mire
2x Bayou
2x Tropical island
2x wasteland
4x Polluted Delta
3x Flooded Strand
4x Underground Sea
1x Volrath's Stronghold

4x Tarmogoyf
4x Tombstalker

4x Thoughtseize
3x Stifle
2x Ponder
4x Brainstorm
4x Daze
4x FoW
4x Smother
4x Smallpox
2x Life from the Loam
1x Intuition
1x Cunning Wish

SD
2x Krosan Grip
2x Chalice of the Void
2x Pernicious Deed
2x Relic of Progenitus
1x EE
2x Echoing Truth
2x BEB
2x Leyline of the Void

My teammates and I called this deck "Team South America".

So, let's go to the rounds description

Match 1: White Weenie Kithkin
Game 1: I started and my oponent mulligan to 5. I played underground sea and Thoughtseize. His hand: plains, plains, plains, plains, creature. So, no choice... he had 5 land draws following and a tombstalker finished easyly
Game 2: Counter on 2 creatures, smother on another 1 and tarmogoyf finished.
1-0-0

Match 2: Burn
Game 1: He started with mountain and burn - started my countdown, I thought.... turn 3 I played Tombstalker and killed with it. I finished with 5 life.
Game 2: He started with Barbarian ring and chain lightning. I played polluted delta and passed. He didn't play land and played lightning bolt. So, I didn't have any doubt. I had another fetch and a tropical in hand. I played smallpox and passed. He didn't draw land. I played Goyf on turn 3, 4 and 5. Finish.
2-0-0

Match 3: Dragon Stompy
Game 1: Fow on Bloodmoon and daze on a dragon gave me advantage. Smother in a Gathan Riders. I played Tombstalker and a Goyf and won.
Game 2: I lost for magus of the moon and a Rakdos Pit Dragon
Game 3: very similar to game 1 but he played a jitte and reached two counters on it. I killed the creature (gathan riders) and played goyf. 4 turns with no creatures for his side and I won.
3-0-0

Match 4: Dredge Ichorid
Game 1: He started. I played FoW on a Putrid Imp but he made the combo on turn 4.
Game 2: I sided in 9 cards. At the mid game he made a 12 dredge with 2 troll and nothing went to his graveyard. I top decked a relic and won.
Game 3: He sided out chain of vapor and mulligan to 5. I started with leyline. Turn 4 I played a goyf and won.
4-0-0

Match 4: GW fish homebrew
He was my teammate. We ID.

I went to top 8 on first. I've never reached a result as good as that.

TOP 8 - Match 1: Dreadstill
Game 1: counters on both sides. 3rd turn he played dreadnought and trickbind. I accepted. On EfT I played smother on dreadnought. In my turn I played goyf and some turns after I won.
Game 2: I lost my underground sea cause a wasteland and never draw a land again. Lost for goyf.
Game 3: The longest game of the day. Goyf on both sides (but I had two and he had only one). I was afraid of bounce and used loam to bring the volraths and tombstalker to my graveyard. It worked and I won. ufff....

TOP 8 - Match 2: White stax
Nice player. He deserved to be the champion.
Game 1: I won with two goyfs played on turn 2 and 3.
Game 2: I was locked by wasteland and was killed by mishras
Game 3: I keeped a hand with two fetch lands and a Tropical, one smallpox, loam and tombstalker and thoughtseize. He mulligan to 5. I played fetch to underground sea and thoughtseize he discarded something I don't remember. He played plains. Now, I made my worst play. I played smallpox. He discarded crucible of worlds and I loam. He top decked another crucible and locked me with wasteland.

I was very happy with deck and my result.
Maybe for the future I'll think to use pithing needle on side.

So, this is it.

I was my first post on The Source. Sorry any english mistake I've done. I hope you can enjoy it.

So what was your motive for playing Smallpox instead of Sinkhole? The creature removal is good and all, but blowing up your own lands seems pretty risky. I understand Loam is supposed to help with that, but Loam just seems terribly slow. From your report, you used Smallpox to blast a land once, and the other time it contributed to your loss.

Smother instead of Snuff Out is understandable if you're slowing the deck down a bit, since (besides Dragon Stompy) the only creature it can't hit is Tombstalker, which Snuff out can't hit either.

Figured I would post my quick list on this deck, ran it to 6-2-1 at GP Chicago, should have Day 2 if I had known how Dryad Arbor works. I have won my past 2 Legacy tournies with this deck too

4 Tarmogoyf
4 Tombstalker
4 Daze
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Sinkhole
3 Ponder
3 Stifle
3 Spell Snare
3 Snuff Out
1 Thoughtseize
2 Pernicious Deed
4 Wasteland
4 Underground Sea
1 Bayou
3 Tropical Island
1 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand

SB:
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Thoughtseize
3 Submerge
3 Diabolic Edict
1 Pernicious Deed


Questions? Concerns? I really think this is the optimal build for the deck

Are you content with the lone Thoughtseize maindeck? Seems kinda random. My build is kind of in between yours and the "standard build"-- I use a 2/2 split of Thoughtseize/Spell Snare, and I use one Maelstrom Pulse instead of a Ponder. The Deeds seem a little slow, and they don't pitch to Force. What have they done for you?

Hey guys,

I'm new to Team America, but I'm interesting in maybe starting to play a deck.

I had a few questions though:

How do you deal with a Blood Moon with no basics?

Also, how does the deck match up against Zoo? It would seem to me that the suicideness plus few threats (on top of StP or PtE wrecking your day) would make that a poor matchup.

Thanks!

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How do you deal with a Blood Moon with no basics?

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Don't let the opponent resolve one.
Ever.

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Also, how does the deck match up against Zoo? It would seem to me that the suicideness plus few threats (on top of StP or PtE wrecking your day) would make that a poor matchup.

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Yeah , you're right, it's a pretty horrible mu for obvious reasons.
Nevertheless it's not like it's unwinable.