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I think Mental Misstep will be welcomed most in Zoo. Their bad match-ups are CounterTop and Combo and this card is likely to be good against both. For us, as a sideboardcard, there are probably still better cards against Combo specifically. Like Mindbreak Trap, Chalice of the Void, Leyline of the Void, Tormod's Crypt and probably even Earwig Squad.
Is goblins still good with the current metagame? I have not seen it top 16 in the past 4 SCG 5K events. I am thinking about building it but need to know if it is still doing well in big tourneys.
What Skeggi says...mental misstep isn't very good against combo, unless lackey, MM first cantrip (or brainstorm).Quote:
Originally Posted by Skeggi
Combo can still knock you down with LED, LED, infernal tutor
fun thing is, a fast clock with goblins with either a crypt or MBT is enough most of the times. So don't play this card with combo as a reason, but with combo as a nice coincidence.
Hey there,Quote:
Originally Posted by codegeass
nice to see that you want to pick up Goblins.
Before your start with the deck you should do 3 things:
(1) Read the deckprimer (especially the part "Why play Goblins?" should answer some of your questions).
(2) Realize that Goblins isn't a meta-deck. Goblins have a wide range of cards available and 12 Slots in MD + 15 slots in SB to properly prepare for the current metagame. There is no ONE good Goblin-list. Flexibility defines Goblin's strength to a large part.
(3) The "current meta" is rapidly changing. The dust from Survival's bannng hasn't settled yet AND there will be some good stuff for Legacy with the release of New Phyrexia. So nobody can tell if the current meta is suited for Goblins or not.
Thanks for the advice appreciate it.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoboLord
I think it's better against combo than you think. And while I agree it's not going to win you a combo match by itself, it's a beautiful maindeckable card that when combined with manabase disruption and Lackey stuff, certainly improves your chances. So I mostly agree with the last part of what you said.Quote:
Originally Posted by practical joke
My current, in-testing, post-NP Goblins list is as follows:
3 Mountain
3 Volcanic Island
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Arid Mesa
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
4 Aether Vial
4 Mental Misstep
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Mogg War Marshal
3 Gempalm Incinerator
3 Stingscourger
SB:
3 Pyrokinesis
4 Spell Pierce
4 Goblin Tinkerer
4 Tormod's Crypt
Guys has anyone tried infiltration lens? Since we always turn sideways often on a turn, equipping this to a lackey or warren instigator will deal us major card advantage either they block or take damage . . . . or putting it on a suicidal piledriver that they are forced to block.:wink:
Have you tried it yourself and are recommending it or are you asking us to waste time on testing an obviously awful card? But please, feel free to prove me wrong with test results.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinoy Goblin
Yeah, I would rather play Goblin Piledriver, Warren Instigator, or any of our other 2 drops than play and equip Infiltration Lens. Skeggi is right. If you tried it out you'd likely wish it was any other card every time you drew it...
Goblins got no love with New Phyrexia...
Although I'm very interested to see how Mental Misstep works out for those testing it
Kinda off topic, but Ace and Gobo, do you guys alter your cards yourself? In real life or on your computer? J/w. Thanks!
I got inspired by GoboLord's jester Gempalm Incinerator and had black and red sharpies
Then I bought some white acrylic paint and more sharpies =)
This card - Mental Misstep is the reason i joined the forum. So hello guys.
I am really afraid about the feature of my goblin deck. I just infest in this deck ...and now i see this spell printed and many peoples saying that this will be the end of Goblins as Tier 1 archetype. In general i am not feeling good.
On other hand I think we no have other choice, but to play the damn counter in our builds. I don't know may be it's paranoia but this spell will change the format and our game plan also in my opinion.
We have our mana denial plan, we have the strongest creature synergies, Aether Vial have the best place in our deck, so the free counter may be should find place to.
Just want to hear other opinions that the deck isn't dying with the new spell printed...
I think you can relax mate. Goblins has been there since the beginning of the format and will always be a viable deck within the format. It's very likely that Mental Misstep isn't the harbinger of doom for Goblins. In fact, it's also very good against alot of other decks. Perhaps we need to play the card ourselves, because it's too good against other decks, but I suspect even this is not the case. Just chill and wait for results. If you're too paranoid you can always try Tacosnape's list (post #546) :wink:
Who the hell said that? Goblins have been Tier 1 forever, and won't fall for a single card that MIGHT screw our turn 1. Goblin isn't near to dead if we get our 1st turn Lackey/Vial countered by this new-fashion counterspell. We have access to the most broken triggered abilities and powerful ETB effects as well. I'd be really glad if people start running this piece of crap instead of good removal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Honorik
I don't even know why you pointed out Goblins as a good target for Mental Misstep, our manacurve isn't low as other decks like Zoo and Storm. It'll just be another spot for decks that needs counterspells to survive until they can do something.
Just another point for you guys testing Mental Misstep: Don't use it against Zoo and Burn. They'll just laugh at your face when you lose 2 life to counter anything.
If they laugh at me for countering Grim Lavamancer, let them laugh. Also, countering a Wild Nacatl seems like a good play, or Path to Exile on a connecting Goblin Lackey.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vandalize
I make the conceptual idea for the alternation on my computer and print it.Quote:
Originally Posted by anotherday
My girlfriend has the drawing skills to put my ideas on the cards. The Jesterpalm Incinerator was her idea though and the first card she altered for me.
@ Skeggi:
Correct. I'd gladly pay 2 life to counter any beast Zoo spits out, cause that will most likely save me more than 2 lifepoints and several Goblins.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Honorik
It's really not as bad as you'd think. MM only attacks us from one angle. And it's pretty worthless past turn 3. And they have to have it in hand when we play Vial or Lackey. Otherwise its a blank. If you want to be worried about something you can probably be worried about the increase in Engineered Plagues due to the popularity, and inexpensiveness of Elves. That card is a bitch to deal with.
I've goldfished a few games with Mental Misstep in the MD and guess what? It seems pretty good. It's actually pretty easy to make room for MM in the MD. I just cut a few Gempalms and utility goblins. It turns out drawing an opening seven with a Lackey and MM is pretty, um, mental.
Mental Misstep changes the game, but not to the point where goblins is unplayable.
Let's examine how our MUs will change when facing an archetypical deck which has included Mental Misstep in its maindeck.
(Let's also assume the Goblins deck is ALSO running 4 MM main)-
Merfolk
They gain 4 more free counterspells, but they suffer a clear drawback. Merfolk will lose either threat density or Standstill drawing power to up their counterspell count, OR they need to play MM instead of Daze. MM basically increases their chance of stopping a Lackey t1 on the draw. However, since Goblins now has access to MM it evens out the advantage. Goblins actually now has answers to Merfolk's Vials, but MM does help Merfolk more in this MU.
Zoo
They gain nothing from MM (against gobbos). They already had a billion ways to kill a T1 lackey or blow up a vial before it goes online. MM only allows them to do it more mana efficiently. Goblins gains protection from removal spells and blockers. MM probably helps Goblins more here.
Storm combo
I don't know if storm combos will run any Mentals MD, but if they did they'd probably side them out G2 against gobbos. They don't want to interact with us anyway. They just want to kill us. Mental doesn't help them do that. Goblins gets more help in this match from Mental.
Big combo
By big combo I mean Sneaky Tell, Shared Fate, Grindstone, or any deck that wins off of a 2 card combo. MM is GREAT for these decks. It allows them more free interactions without card or tempo disadvantage. They definitely get more from MM in this MU than Goblins does, if only becuase they can use MM to disrupt our game winners while we can only use it against their support cards (Brainstorm, MM, whatever). There will be times though that Gobbos can use MM on a Grindstone or Welder or something of that nature.
Elves
They can now stop Lackey. Goblins can now stop Glimpse of Nature. It's a push.
Countertop- CT will throw this around pretty well. It will allow them to set up CounterTop T2 without losing card advantage and stopping our 1drop. Seems pretty good. MM also allows us to stop StP and Top. CT gains the most, but goblins now has access to some powerful interactions.
Affinity
I have no idea... Goblins could stop Springleaf Drum or Glimpse or whatever weird shit they're playing these days. Affinity might be the deck least affected by MM.
Dredge
I'm no expert on Dredge, but I doubt this deck will play MM in the MD. As it stands the only interactive Dredge card is Cabal Therapy which has great synergy with the deck. So I doubt dredge will have much use or room for MM, while goblins can use MM to blast Imps, Tribes, Breaktrough for 0, Careful Study. Goblins gains a ton of ways to interact with Dredge. Goblins gains much more from MM in this MU.
What Wizards has really done by printing MM is make the whole Legacy format more interactive across the board. I don't think any deck really blows up and becomes overpowered or gets stomped out of the format with this card. Merfolk is the only deck that really worries me. They now have SO MANY ANSWERS. I don't think Goblins or Zoo is getting run out of town because of this card. I think they actually get much more interactive (which can only help their game).
I think you forget to factor in the repercussions on a synergistic deck like Goblins packing another 4 non-goblins spells. Ringleader becomes worse when you only draw 1 or 2 spells of it instead of 2-3. Goblins doesn't like diluting their goblins count, and it's a tight deck right now. I really don't see how you can incorperate this card maindeck and claim that the strength of the deck doesn't go down and your "goldfishes" certainly do no disprove that. It's pure statistics.
Like in your Zoo example "it gives protection from STP" what the heck, as if Goblins mind a 1vs1 trade in the zoo matchup. If Goblins can make 1v1 trades the entire match they will win the match, that's your goal!
If Merfolk takes out Spell Pierce for Mental Misstep they've taken out 4 cards that only touched vial when on the play and replaced it by four cards that touch Vial and Lackey even on the draw, that's a pretty huge difference without losing any synergy power the deck already has.