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Could some people who play this deck post their current lists? I've been messing around with this a bit, but lists from the last year or so are pretty few and hard to come by, and I'm curious where people are settling now with Eldrazi in and Dig gone. Thanks so much!
I've been messing around with this list and it has been surprising me a lot. I'm mainly a miracles player nowadays, but I originally played Painter before Miracles was a thing, and fell in love all over again with Painter when I "came up" with this. It's kind of a mix of all the different painter decks over the last 7 or so months. Opinions?
4 Painter's Servant
3 Goblin Welder
1 Trinket Mage
2 Imperial Recruiter
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Blood Moon
4 Grindstone
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Mox Opal
1 Lion's Eye Diamond
3 Lotus Petal
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Enlightened Tutor
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Ancient Tomb
3 Great Furnace
1 Plateau
1 Tundra
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Island
1 Volcanic Island
2 Flooded Strand
SB:
2 Spellskite
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Counterbalance
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Misdirection
It gives you so many useful things to do with its fast mana if you're not holding the combo.
I think you're trying to do too much. When I played thasur version of the deck (typically play RW) I really enjoyed the speed. When you include jace and bridge it really feels like you're trying to play a slightly longer game. Led with jace also feels like a giant nonbo. Also cutting the intuition feels really wrong as it plus welder won me most games.Quote:
Originally Posted by Takkles
I mean it still has the very fast wins, but also dropping turn 1/2 Jace followed by Blood Moon, or turn 1/2 moon into turn 2/3 Jace are also pretty much GG. I just love the options it gives. The SB is still going through a lot of changes, but I do like having CB in the board as an option. I'd say give it a try before judging the look too much.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mapson
I've mostly been playing against Shardless/ANT/Eldrazi/Delver, so maybe they're just kinda good for this type of build.
I am playing a slightly modified version of the white sideboard list from the previous page, and so far testing has been awesome, it answers a lot of questions from previous builds, makes a ton of matchups better, and still beats up on eldrazi. I am considering testing some enlightened tutors but haven't broken them out yet.
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Force of Will
3 Pyroblast
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Transmute Artifact
4 Painter's Servant
4 Grindstone
4 Goblin Welder
1 Lion's Eye Diamond
3 Mox Opal
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Flooded Strand
2 Volcanic Island
2 Tundra
2 Island
1 Mountain
3 Seat of the Synod
2 Ancient Tomb
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Intuition
//Sideboard
SB: 4 Stoneforge Mystic
SB: 3 Monastery Mentor
SB: 1 Batterskull
SB: 1 Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 3 Ensnaring Bridge
SB: 1 Nihil Spellbomb
SB: 2 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
UR Painter placed 2nd at the SCG Super IQ:
4 Painter's Servant
1 Spellskite
4 Goblin Welder
4 Dack Fayden
1 Tezzeret the Seeker
2 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Grindstone
2 Liquimetal Coating
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
2 Pyroblast
3 Mox Opal
2 Ponder
2 Transmute Artifact
2 Great Furnace
2 Seat of the Synod
2 Island
4 Ancient Tomb
1 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Volcanic Island
1 Academy Ruins
Sideboard:
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Pithing Needle
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Trinisphere
2 Blood Moon
1 Ghirapur Aether Grid
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Flusterstorm
1 Pyroblast
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Anyone have much experience with the 4 Dack 2 Liquimetal package? Strong or too cute? No intuition, but 2 Transmute and 1 Tezz.
Went 4-0 in a weekly legacy event (8-0 in games!) with the URw decklist on the last page (4 ponder + 4 top maindeck, 4 mentor in sideboard):
2-0 vs. Reanimator
2-0 vs. Enchantress
2-0 vs. Shardless BUG
2-0 vs. Miracles
6-0 in games with traditional plan
2-0 in games with Monastery Mentor/Stoneforge Mystic
Round 1 - Reanimator
Game 1
I draw my one-of Nihil Spellbomb and am able to assemble the combo.
Game 2
My opponent mulligans to 5 and I take 5+ turns against an opponent who did not play a single permanent.
Round 2 - Enchantress
Game 1
Turn 4 Intuition with Goblin Welder in play.
Game 2
I red elemental blast a Stony Silence for the win on turn 4.
Round 3 - Shardless BUG
Game 1
My opponent shreds my hand, but I am able to use Goblin Welder to swap a Grindstone for a Painter's Servant with the ability on the stack.
Game 2 (Transform to Mentor/Stoneforge plan)
1 Mentor > 2 Deathrite Shaman, 2 Shardless Agent, 1 Liliana
I also Misdirected an Ancestral Vision
Round 4 - Miracles
Game 1
On the draw, I decide to hold up Spell Pierce instead of Ponder or Sensei's Divining Top and am rewarded by countering a Counterbalance. I am able to assemble the combo through a Counterspell, Swords to Plowshares, and Terminus.
Game 2 (Transform to Mentor/Stoneforge plan)
My opponent plays a Mentor first, but my Mentor has more cantrip support. I also find a second Mentor and an Umezawa's Jitte.
Notes
-Tried a 2/2 split between Misdirection and Force of Will. I was able to misdirect an ancestral vision. I am content.
-Spell pierce is awesome. I may play a third one (swapping out a pyroblast), as it protects against many of our most-hated cards (Liliana, Chalice, Hymn)
-On the draw against Miracles I will almost always hold up spell pierce or pyroblast over playing a cantrip or top.
-I don't have a second Tundra in real life, so I substituted in a Plateau.
-I played a split of 1 Transmute Artifact and 1 Intuition and was happy with the configuration.
Have you thought of going nahiri and emrakul sb??
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I am assuming that this plan would be in addition to Monastery Mentors (otherwise we would lack the board presence to protect Nahiri).Quote:
Originally Posted by GradStudent
The easiest comparison to make would be to Jace as both are planeswalkers at 4 mana.
Pros for Jace
-Jace is easier to cast as double blue is usually easier to obtain than white and red, at least in the cantrip-heavy version
-In general Jace produces more value with Brainstorm compared to the looting effect from Nahiri (actual card advantage)
-Better with Monastery Mentor (see above)
-Emrakul is a dead card in a majority of board states
-Pitches to Force of Will
Pros for Nahiri
-Nahiri reaches ultimate faster (3 turns)
-Ability to remove enchantments and artifacts is more versatile
-Immune to Pyroblast (these will almost always be boarded in against us)
Neutral
-Bouncing a creature may be more reliable than removing a tapped one, but is a temporary solution
From this quick analysis I would think that Jace is a better planeswalker to run (the bar is set quite high of course).
Also, I have tried 2 Jace in the sideboard to complement the Monastery Mentor plan, and they have really overperformed. We can get to 4 mana very quickly with a combination of Mox Opal and Ancient Tombs.
emrakul allows to fetch spellbomb against emrakul decks with welder. Add that in Pros :)
Emrakul seems like a huge nonbo with Bridge, which is one of the most important early game cards we have. You can weld it away or something, but I'm not convinced that's the way to go. Everyone seems to be trying to jam Nahiri/Emrakul into lists now that Lossett streamed a few games with it in Miracles.
For those who are interested in these types of things :wink:
New episode of Legacy's Allure! Joining the cast is Michael "Hollywood" Keller. We talk about prison strategies and the crazy scarecrow from Eventide that made Painter-Stone an archetype. Check it out!
Webcast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9H5ZHO2tWc
Podcast: https://archive.org/details/LegacysA...hMichaelKeller
I know this thread has dried up, but I've been playing U/R/b painter for the last 4 weeks and thought I'd see if anyone else is doing work with welders.
For reference, I'm playing the list which member, @thatniceguy, top 16'd with last November. Only changes are -2 Dack Faydens, -1 Nihil Spellbomb and +2 Izzet Charm +1 Tormod's Crypt.
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=95717
I've had to shake off some rust - last time I played the deck was 2011. That said, each week has gotten better and better for me. Record for the last 4 weeks has been 1-2 drop, 1-2 drop, 2-1 ID, 3-0 ID. The tournaments at my LGS don't fire until 7:25 PM so I usually only get 3 matches in before I have to head home for work the following morning.
I can't really say whether or not the deck is well positioned at the moment. I play the deck because I love it, it's fun to play, and I believe that it rewards mastery. I think the mastery comment is evidenced by the various builds of U/R painter that have been successful in the hands of different pilots. This deck is powerful, but a skilled pilot is going to understand the many many lines that are available in any given situation.
Anyway, my observations... Dack is just not right for my meta. I don't see enough D&T to make his -2 live. For the reason, I wanted to test 2 Izzet Charms. The last two weeks have not provided enough data for me to make a call. What I do know is that the mana always feels fine, so the card is definitely live. I think it will come down to how well Izzet Charm performs against Delver decks. If it doesn't work out, the next card I'm going to test for that slot is Spell Pierce, and after that Transmute Artifact.
I think Tormod's Crypt has an edge over Nihil Spellbomb because you can tap out on turn 3 or 4 for Tezz and drop it straight into play (this was relevant in a reanimator match I had on Tuesday). The matchups where you desperately need gy hate, you're going to need it fast. I found that in the matchups where I didn't need gy hate, there were always more important things for me to be doing with my mana.
So far I have not fired off Tezz AoB's ultimate at all. Where he really shines is acting as pseudo-Ensnaring Bridges by making 5/5's that certain decks just can't afford to swing into. He has dug into the missing kill card in 2 matches, so his + ability has been great. In all honesty, I don't know that we'll ever shoot the moon with 10 artifacts. @thatniceguy points out, correctly I believe, that Tezz AoB is really just another haymaker in a string of them. He just piles onto the goodness. It's also important that the deck is able to shift gears if push comes to shove.
I missed the long period in this deck's existence when Transmute Artifact and Wurmcoil Engine were the norm, but I personally just like Tezz AoB. He synergizes with our other game plan well and provides the deck with even more lines. Wurmcoil is very linear in what it does. Maybe I just don't play against enough Delver at my LGS, though.
Anyway, thanks to anyone who read through that. I'll continue slinging pyroblasts and activating Grindstone on myself for surprise victories. Hope I'm not the only one!
Just took this deck to an event in Maryland hoping to win a black lotus.
I didn't win but had a good run nevertheless.
List:
Land (21)
4x Ancient Tomb
3x Great Furnace
1x Island
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Mountain
4x Scalding Tarn
4x Seat of the Synod
1x Tropical Island
2x Volcanic Island
Instant (17)
4x Brainstorm
4x Force of Will
4x Intuition
1x Misdirection
3x Pyroblast
1x Red Elemental Blast
Artifact (14)
4x Grindstone
2x Lion's Eye Diamond
3x Mox Opal
4x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Tormod's Crypt
Creature (8)
4x Goblin Welder
4x Painter's Servant
Sideboard
2x Ancient Grudge
3x Blood Moon
3x Ensnaring Bridge
2x Flusterstorm
2x Tormod's Crypt
1x Transmute Artifact
2x Wurmcoil Engine
Rd 1 - Loam - loss: 1-2
Rd 2 - Shardless - win - 2-1
Rd 3 - Shardless - win - 2-0
Rd4 - Death & Taxes - 2-0
Rd 5 - U/B Eldrazi - 2-0
Rd 6 - Colorless Eldraazi - 2-0
RD 7 - ID into top 8
Top 8 - Lose to Burn
may or may not write a full write up later but I don't think the games were overly interesting>
Ancient Grudge was my MVP of the day. I brought it in every round of swiss. List felt very good other than the Tormod's Crypt in the main. Used 13/15 sideboard cards. The man deck crypt would be better as a transmute but didn't want to lose to any sneak/omni decks. Would gladly answer any questions
Hey Mapson, congrats on the top 8. I used to run a similar build before I started splashing black for Tezz. It's great to see that your list putting up solid results against Eldrazi. I especially like the Ancient Grudge tech. I'd recently started trying Ingot Chewer in my side, but I haven't seen it in games.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mapson
I was wondering how the one of Misdirection performed. Also, if you could give your thoughts on the 2 of LED. Did they power you into a fair number of quick wins?
Bummer that you got matched up vs. Burn in the top 8.
Thanks. The eldrazi matchups were kind of interesting but I felt felt solid about them. i was going to play ingot chewer as I wanted artifact removal that wasn't 1 cmc but I felt that it was too hard to consistently find ingot chewer through a chalice, and the upside of it being a creature is barely an upside since I really didn't have a backup beatdown plan. Would definitely recommend the grudges though. The misdirection was great. I hit two hymns and an abrupt decays. Plus when testng the deck there was a turn where I had painter out and pyroblasted a drs. In response they pyrblased my painter, in response I was able to misdirect that pyroblast to their needle to hit everything I wanted.SO that was pretty sweet. Two LED felt great. Last time I played the deck in an event I only used one and was generally pretty happy but two really felt like the sweet spot. it facilitated so many free wins and I think being able to intuition for two of them was usually very good. I know some lists play three. I'm not sure if that's correct because sometimes it doesn't do anything, and I was certainly willing to cut it in certain matchups but i was very happy with two. (this might be biased because the deck did well for me, but I'd like to think it did well for a reason.)Quote:
Originally Posted by amppyou
posted a quick writeup after all http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...356#post971356
I stated play RW version of this deck and am considering trying out the UR version (mostly because I don't have Imperial Recruitors in paper).Quote:
Originally Posted by Mapson
You've seem to had a good amount of success with the deck. How has your build been doing for your lately? Are then any changes you would make to your current build?
So, I haven't really had the opportunity to play much since then. I should be taking it to an event this weekend though and I'll definitely let you know how that goes. As far as changes I would make, there's only two changes I would really consider to the main. Swapping the md crypt out for a transmute would be ok but I don't like the thought of not being able to beat show and tell decks g1. It's also reasonable that the 4th intuition could be shaved, not everyone likes that package anyways though I found it amazing. The format hasn't really changed very much so I wouldn't make any other changes unless I could find a way to slant the grixis delver mu a bit more in our favor as in testing that was the roughest one. Sudden shocks would possibly help as deathrite was the really problematic card. That being said, I'm not sure what would be a reasonable cut for them, this might sound crazy but blood moon is likely the best option but I don't think it's worth the swap. Anyway, those are my thoughts for now but I should have more to say at the start of next weekQuote:
Originally Posted by CovenantElite30
I've been testing a Grixis build similar to That nice guy's for two weeks now. I've never played Painter before, but I love Tezzeret, AoB and this deck hits the sweet spot between durdling like Tezzerator and a quick combo finish. ;)
Right now I'm trying out a lot of stuff, like MD Transmute Artifact, only 3 Intuition and a rather controlling SB with lots of removal. I also cut the Blood Moons. Without having access to real board clears, I don't like the card against Eldrazi or Grixis Delver (I played a lot of Miracles, where Moon + Sweeper wins on the spot but Blood Moon alone often does nothing). Against Lands I feel that I don't have to lock them out and prefer to focus on the combo.
4 Painter's Servant
4 Grindstone
4 Goblin Welder
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
2 Dack Fayden
4 Brainstorm
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Intuition
2 Transmute Artifact
4 Force of Will
2 Pyroblast
1 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Mox Opal
2 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Bloodstained Mire
2 Volcanic Island
1 Underground Sea
1 Island
1 Mountain
3 Seat of the Synod
2 Great Furnace
3 Ancient Tomb
1 City of Traitors
Sideboard:
3 Flusterstorm
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
2 Ghirapur Aether Grid
2 Pyroclasm
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Pithing Needle
What I'm not sure about is how to approach the Shardless BUG and Grixis Delver matchups. I don't need a complete SB guide but rather some advice in terms of "Who's the Beatdown?"
Against Shardless: Should I go all-in on the combo or should I try a more grindy approach? Against Jund, I realized that they have way too much removal and threats to handle. As a result I just go YOLO mode, try to jam the combo ASAP and mulligan slow hands away. But what to do against Shardless? They have less removal and less relevant threats, so the Tezzeret backup plan looks good. If I try to grind, upping the Redblast count against Ancestral Vision and Jace seems good. Would you side out some Forces? Decay can't be countered anyway, so Llliana seems to be the only relevant target. Do I miss anything that has to be forced?
I face similar issues against Grixis Delver. Should I rather focus on containing their threats with Blasts, Pyroclasm and Aether Grid and then win sometime later? On the other hand, I could try to combo quickly with FOW and Flusterstorm backup. I had mixed results with the control plan when I didn't have Pyroclasm in the board. I have not tested the matchup with the new SB. What does work best for you guys? Is playing control against them a losing battle?