Testing with urn urborg has been decent. The combo is easily supplanted over mass removal slots. Definitely will be testing furtherQuote:
Originally Posted by Rock Lee
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Testing with urn urborg has been decent. The combo is easily supplanted over mass removal slots. Definitely will be testing furtherQuote:
Originally Posted by Rock Lee
Good to see that people are still developing this deck.
I'm really a bit worried about a discard-heavy meta, and I find the matchups with BG/x decks a bit underwhelming - particularly if they draw into more than 1 discard spell early game.
How does everybody else deal with the matchup?
This may sound stupid but why would you need Urborg here?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Lee
Not stupid at all, but with the addition of a 3rd land that taps for nothing, the dead-hands were approaching excessive levels. The urborg is also part of the testing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey_Island
I'm very skeptical of Depths combo in this deck. I will outline my reasoning below.
° It doesn't seem like it would help against combo at all since it's quite slow.
°Against creature decks it's a whole lot weaker than Prime Time or an Eldrazi. I wouldn't want to waste two lands to be blown out by Stingscourger or the like. Glacial Chasm seems much better and easier to set up here.
°It makes us weaker to Wasteland which is my major concern here.
I just don't see it helping any of the tougher matchups but I'm eager to hear testing results regardless.
In a later part of the game I'd rather fetch up the Eye of Ugin and stomp the opponent from there. 1 card > 2 card combo
I see what you mean now... It makes sense! I can't wait to have the results of your testing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Lee
Also I have a question about he future of the deck: would Turbo Eldrazi still be a valid deck if Show and Tell is banned? I mean, sure it would weaken the deck but maybe the disappearing of other S&T decks could improve this deck after all...
What do you guys think?
I don't play the "what if" game. Doesn't serve a purpose.Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey_Island
About a discard heavy meta, I would run 4x repeal and swap o stones for all is dust, prolly running 4.
Rock Lee is playing on the scg camera with Force of Will in the deck, im really interested to see what his list looks like.
Link please? I can't seem to find it. Go Jeremiah!Quote:
Originally Posted by zathe922
EDIT- Bad matchup against Omni, maybe the plan here should be to just try and race instead of being interactive? I'm not sure since I haven't played the matchup yet. Good showing Rock, you showed those jabronis .
Here's the link to the stream: http://www.twitch.tv/scglive
His match already ended, he lost to Omniclash :(
Go Rock Lee!
Lost to myself. badly. so shameful and on camera! knocked myself from Top 8. still finished 19th despite the shame. /palmQuote:
Originally Posted by zathe922
Latest list
// Lands
4 [MR] Cloudpost
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
4 [TSP] Vesuva
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
4 [R] Tropical Island
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
3 [M12] Island (4)
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
1 [LG] Karakas
// Creatures
4 [M12] Primeval Titan
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 [ROE] Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 [ROE] Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
2 [FD] Trinket Mage
// Spells
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [UL] Crop Rotation
3 [ZEN] Expedition Map
2 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
4 [IA] Brainstorm
4 [US] Show and Tell
4 [GP] Repeal
// Sideboard
SB: 4 [CMD] Flusterstorm
SB: 3 [ZEN] Mindbreak Trap
SB: 4 [AL] Force of Will
SB: 3 [ZEN] Iona, Shield of Emeria
SB: 1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
Your new list looks interesting. I have a couple of questions regarding card choices:Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Lee
1. What prompted you to drop board-wipe effects like Oblivion Stone altogether? Won't this leave us more vulnerable to any creature-based strategies (like Tribal Aggro, G/x Mid-range decks, etc.)?
2. Apart from the obvious Omni-clash matchup, where else have the 3 copies of Iona been great as a sideboard option?
3. How is the new build's performance vs. BG/x Decks?
4. Do you miss not having Pithing Needle as a catch-all solution against problem cards?
These are great questions and I'd love to see Rock's reply. This is still my favorite legacy deck!Quote:
Originally Posted by SBGpinas
SBGpinas and I are itching to use this deck again because it's fun and funky. We stopped because of all the problem match ups the current meta has. If it were back to Miracles, Stoneblade, RUG and Maverick era we would definitely use 12 post :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by SBGpinas
1.
Board sweepers were used because they could beat combo as well as aggro. O stone was useful against sneaky show, All is Dust could beat enchantress/sword of the meek. Both were viable against aggro as well, with goyfs and knights dominating the scene.
Since the only viable form of combo is Omni, as it beats sneaky show, this plan is no longer reasonable to assume and required a revamp.
2.
90% omni, 5% Elves, 5% burn. Omni has massive issues with iona, but I have sided it in against many different matchups, including most forms of combo, ichorid, or just mono colored decks that don't swarm as their plan.
3.
This build was designed on the fact that 4 repeal and 4 Show & tell completely crushes esper deathblade/BUG/Jund/Maverick.
4.
I don't miss Pithing needle, mostly because the previously mentioned decks (maverick withstanding) don't run x4 wastelands, and even when they do, the wastes are rarely recurred.
The only thought I have, is that if you felt uncomfortable with Iona and no Pithing Needles, 3x Surgical extractions in Iona's place can perform a similar role in all the same matchups, and also give you game against waste recursion. I personally think it is weaker, but not significantly so.
All-in-All, the deck gave me everything I needed to Top 8, and win that SCG, I just threw away my opportunity. The challenges of playing the most complicated deck in any competitive format.
That hurts man :( Storm and elves have been putting up results between SCG and JupiterQuote:
Originally Posted by Rock Lee
I agree, 12 post seems like a good choice. When I'm done with my matches I pretty much try to find you since the games are so interesting. I'm looking to maybe find a list this weekend. Knowing there will be a decent amount of wastelands makes me want to fit 1 needle or so main over repeal.Quote:
All-in-All, the deck gave me everything I needed to Top 8, and win that SCG, I just threw away my opportunity. The challenges of playing the most complicated deck in any competitive format.
Thanks for the quick reply :) Might give this a whirl again. Although I might swap the 3rd Island for a Main Bog and then swap the SB Bog for a Tabernacle but that's it :)
No pithing needle sure hurts but Wasteland can be countered by 4 Copies of Crop Rotation as well.
So basically Iona must be Show and Tell'd hence 4 Brainstorm and 4 Top. It seems like a good answer against Burn, better than the other answers which can be worked around. (Chalice for 1 doesn't prevent PoP, Chalice for 2 doesn't prevent the Bolts and Vortex kills you even with Glimmerposts, Chasm only delays the inevitable) Iona just seals the deal!
Only last problem I can see is Sneak Show as it is still very much active in my meta and people haven't really jumped the Omni-clash Bandwagon. Blood Moon and Sneak Attack can still be huge problems. But I guess 4 Force of Will and the Mindbreak Traps are still useful.