[Primer] R/G Lands

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Originally Posted by Dissection

The problem with all these 'hidden tricks' is they run a set of Gitaxian Probe. Any good Omni player will know to probe first.

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yes but i dont think that precludes us from playing the beaters if we think that we need them. even if they do see an ashen rider or iona they still need to play around those cards now, and they must do it quickly because we still have a 20/20 that can happen. i personally still think we should go for the 20/20 plan but i do know some lands players who swear by iona or ashen rider as a card. i think the choice to play a beater is a personal one and has advantages and disadvantages. with choke trini and k grip the matchup is pretty tilted in our favor post board.

Emrakul is ONLY playable if you expect a certain percent of the field to be playing Painter. Don't waste a sideboard slot on a match you'll likely never see.

Better off playing that new Vortex anyway. I have done some testing against Painter. It's only a touch easier than Dragon Stompy and that decks a bitch too. Honestly my suggestion is really, not worth the sideboard slots anyway unless you know you will face it. The match is just too unbalanced.

Thanks for the replays, have swapped Emrakul out for Worm Harvest.

As there are six four round legacy side events over the weekend, I imagine I'll be able to get a feel for the meta, and be able to adjust my board accordingly.

Dissection: I played in a dark sphere legacy event earlier in the year, saw quite a few Omni-Tell, Shardless Bug, Reanimator and Delver decks.

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Originally Posted by horrain

Dissection: I played in a dark sphere legacy event earlier in the year, saw quite a few Omni-Tell, Shardless Bug, Reanimator and Delver decks.

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That's where I play, good chance I was on Shardless too. Though the 'meta' there is totally unhinged, you never know what to expect!

Due to there only being these rather casual looking 4-round side events, this is probably a good opportunity to try different things. I've always been slightly on the fence about Worm Harvest, but it wrecks miracles, I'm sure there will be some of those at the GP side events. See if it's worth the SB slot.

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Originally Posted by supremePINEAPPLE

I sort of meant beyond the obvious. Thanks for explaining blood moon though...

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I guess the other benefit is that fetches can be Loamed back. With a four two split you can get a second (or third) forest in play faster and more reliablly. The downside is they become dead draws later, but the theory is that once you've fetcvhed (or drawn) both Taigas and a Forest getting yet another is of reduced value.

Maybe this is obvious too, but nonetheless these are reasons to run a 4-2 split (and you did ask).

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Originally Posted by Crimhead

I guess the other benefit is that fetches can be Loamed back. With a four two split you can get a second (or third) forest in play faster and more reliablly. The downside is they become dead draws later, but the theory is that once you've fetcvhed (or drawn) both Taigas and a Forest getting yet another is of reduced value.

Maybe this is obvious too, but nonetheless these are reasons to run a 4-2 split (and you did ask).

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a "dead" fetch is still a great crop rotation sacrifice.

I'd like to know how you guys play against miracles. I've had some trouble with playing against it and I'm considering putting worm harvest back in my board but i don't know if its worth it or not. currently my board is

1 boseiju
4 k grip
3 trini
3 sphere of resistance
2 chalice
2 choke

my usual board out is
punishing fire x3
tabernacle x1
glacial chasm x1
karakas x1
bojuka bog x1
mana bond x2

i bring in
boseiju x1
k grip x4
trini x3
choke x2

as i understand it we are trying to turn them off of as much blue as possible throughout the match so port and wasteland are both priority. once they get counter top up i almost always take out top first to prevent them from digging down into their deck. id like to know your opinions on this strategy as well as if you guys have any insight.

Chalice of the Void is very good against Miracles -- ESPECIALLY the Ponder variants. You want it in your deck. You probably don't want Crop Rotation in vs a deck with a ton of counterspells (and since you're packing Chalice). If you need more slots cut a Dark Depths.

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Originally Posted by Croprot

I'd like to know how you guys play against miracles. I've had some trouble with playing against it and I'm considering putting worm harvest back in my board but i don't know if its worth it or not. currently my board is

1 boseiju
4 k grip
3 trini
3 sphere of resistance
2 chalice
2 choke

my usual board out is
punishing fire x3
tabernacle x1
glacial chasm x1
karakas x1
bojuka bog x1
mana bond x2

i bring in
boseiju x1
k grip x4
trini x3
choke x2

as i understand it we are trying to turn them off of as much blue as possible throughout the match so port and wasteland are both priority. once they get counter top up i almost always take out top first to prevent them from digging down into their deck. id like to know your opinions on this strategy as well as if you guys have any insight.

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I think I would take out maze of ith before I start taking out the punishing fires, same with the bog and karakas (I play both of those in the sideboard). I usually take out some number of crop rotations aswell. Other than that that sounds about right, I would bring in the chalices as well. Post board you just want to try to lock them out whatever way you can and fight through all their hate.

The slow play complaints seem a bit strange to me. I rarely get to play Magic due to living a life, and when I do set aside a day for a tournament, I want to, you know, play Magic. Racing through games isnt why i paid an entry fee. Now of course, I dont want to draw out every round, but games where the balance of power shifts between players who need to continue to make optimal decisions are the best games!

I think perhaps some players are jaded and no longer excited about playing, and are just going through the motions?

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Originally Posted by GrimoirePath

The slow play complaints seem a bit strange to me. I rarely get to play Magic due to living a life, and when I do set aside a day for a tournament, I want to, you know, play Magic. Racing through games isnt why i paid an entry fee. Now of course, I dont want to draw out every round, but games where the balance of power shifts between players who need to continue to make optimal decisions are the best games!

I think perhaps some players are jaded and no longer excited about playing, and are just going through the motions?

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Slow play is a HUGE problem. The complaint has nothing to do with casuals coming out to play magic but with people taking longer than normal to play the game. You do not have the right to steal clock time from your opponent.

Went 4-2 at today's legacy tournament.

Beating RUG Delver 2-0, BUG Delver 2-1, Infect 2-0 and Elves 2-1.

Losing to Miracles 0-2 and Omnitell 0-2.

I am fine losing to Omnitell but I want to find ways to win against miracles without switching to RUG. I am comfortable running 4 depths 4 stage and just racing in the combo matchup.

Does anyone have a good miracles plan?

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Originally Posted by lavafrogg

Does anyone have a good miracles plan?

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Read up a few posts; this very topic was discussed.

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Originally Posted by barcode

Slow play is a HUGE problem. The complaint has nothing to do with casuals coming out to play magic but with people taking longer than normal to play the game. You do not have the right to steal clock time from your opponent.

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Right, but that article seems to be suggesting that Lands is a de facto "slow play" deck. Thats baloney.

I will take as much time as someone gives me. If I have Grove, Fire going and you want to hold on for dear life, ain't my issue. The one I have to explain sometimes us "You had the combo on board, why did you not got for it?" And that normally comes down to "I was looking for a Port for your Plains."

I have played quite a few miracles matches and I assure you that the miracles person is easily the "slower" player. All of the blue cantrips and topping is infinitely more than, gain 1 take 2 go, or remove 1 counter from my depths go.

Want to ban cards for game length talk to my RUG opponent who lost to a turn 2 manabond(to play around daze) or my elves opponent that lost on turn 3.

You will never see a miracles player win on turn 2, 3, 4, or 5 for that matter.

@barcode I can find a few general sideboard cards but nothing that specifically talks about what people are doing against miracles.

The opening post has some good points but I was just asking.

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Originally Posted by Chatto

Quick question: how do people feel about boarding Exploration out against Miracles? Putting in multiple Sphere-effects, Choke and Boseiju.

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Start there, read on.

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Originally Posted by Dice_Box

Start there, read on.

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Quote Originally Posted by Chatto View Post
Quick question: how do people feel about boarding Exploration out against Miracles? Putting in multiple Sphere-effects, Choke and Boseiju.
My plan for Miracles is:

+1 Boseiju
+1 Choke
+2 Trinisphere
+2 Chalice of the Void
+4 Krosan Grip

-3 Crop Rotation
-1 Manabond
-3 Maze of Ith
-1 Bojuka Bog
-1 Glacial Chasm
-1 Dark Depths

Exploration is very important to getting a mana advantage so you can cast Trinisphere and other hate cards. Later, being able to Loam back Stage and Depths and play both in the same turn is very powerful indeed.

Thanks?

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Originally Posted by lavafrogg

Quote Originally Posted by Chatto View Post
Quick question: how do people feel about boarding Exploration out against Miracles? Putting in multiple Sphere-effects, Choke and Boseiju.
My plan for Miracles is:

+1 Boseiju
+1 Choke
+2 Trinisphere
+2 Chalice of the Void
+4 Krosan Grip

-3 Crop Rotation
-1 Manabond
-3 Maze of Ith
-1 Bojuka Bog
-1 Glacial Chasm
-1 Dark Depths

Exploration is very important to getting a mana advantage so you can cast Trinisphere and other hate cards. Later, being able to Loam back Stage and Depths and play both in the same turn is very powerful indeed.

Thanks?

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That sounds like something I'd write. Hey it is, and it's a few pages back. Gosh, I'm full of such wonderful advice.

Do you have anything to share in the discussion of Miracles sideboarding? Questions? Comments? What has been working for you? What hasn't been working for you?