Re: [Deck] TES - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
APriestOfGix
The EPIC Storm — Bryant Cook
4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
2 Undiscovered Paradise
4 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Diminishing Returns
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
1 Tendrils of Agony
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Infernal Tutor
4 Burning Wish
4 Dark Ritual
4 Rite of Flame
3 Empty the Warrens
4 Brainstorm
4 Chrome Mox
4 Lotus Petal
4 Orim's Chant
1 Cruel Bargain
3 Abeyance
Sideboard
1 Diminishing Returns
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Cruel Bargain
3 Pyroblast
1 Hull Breach
1 Shattering Spree
1 Goblin War Strike
1 Cave-In
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Duress
Looks like somebody spoiled Bryants new list.
I'm not sold on abyance though. It forcer you to pay 1W DURING combo, of course Chant is better, but Aybance looks solid. I still would rather run Swarm over these though, since it's a 1 drop, and you can plop it down before you combo.
Of course this is all theory, i never though to test it out.
Bryant, what do you think of them?
This is the 'new and techy' change? So now we're essentially able to fully protect the combo from counters and CB+Top but our tutors are down to Brainstorm, Infernal Tutor, and Burning Wish(which only gets a few combo pieces as is)?
So looking closer at the SINGLE copy of the Draw4, and trying to stay true to the decks ability to go off before turn 4, we see this. In order to play it prior to turn 3, we have a few options.
T1 Possibilities:
-Land/Petal/Mox, Ritual, Draw4. (3-4 cards used, 4 drawn, +1-0 net draw)
-Land, Mox(remove black), Petal/Other Mox, Draw4. (5-6 cards used, 4 drawn, 1-2 cards lost)
T2 Possibilities:
-Land(T1), Land, Petal/Mox, Draw4. (3-4 Used, +1-0 net draw)
T3 Possibilities:
Land, Land, Land/Petal/Mox, Draw4. (0-3 used, +3-1 net draw)
What this shows is that the Draw4s are good for slower and later games. But is the huge amount of lifeloss worth the small card advantage? In turn 1, you're looking at losing around 8-10 life, turn 2, maybe 6-10, and turn 3, you've probably been hit by a creature or two by now so you'll be at around 8 life if you use the Draw4 and then have to wait another turn to go off.
The Draw4 only gets better with Plunge, because the life lost is smaller after a Plunge and the deck is thinned. Plunge can also negate some of the life loss after a Draw4 with a small warrens of 4+ tokens.
The deck needs Plunge in my opinion to support the huge loss of life given by the Draw4. That and I personally believe that the deck needs more tutoring power. Realistically, Infernal and Brainstorm are the only tutors in the deck. Infernal is limited to what it gives, because it'll rely off of what you have already, and Brainstorm only shows you 3 new cards and gives you 2 known(and possibly dead) draws unless you use an Infernal Tutor to shuffle it up. That's relying on 4 other cards in the deck to shuffle and give you new cards.
Plunge for more than 2 after a Brainstorm gives us a peek at more than what we already know. Hell, even Impulse does that. I think it's time to drop Abeyance and Draw4s for either of these, and I'm sure many people will agree.
The best card advantage generator for the deck is Dark Confidant, but since creature removal is so strong in Legacy, he can't be run.
Re: [Deck] TES - The EPIC Storm
@chokin
i agree, i have been using the last 4 slots (Bryant has 3 Aybance, and a Draw4) as ways to find more tutors, i'm trying out grim tutor as a 2 of with 2 cabal rituals to play it...
also since it's 1BB it's much easier to cast not off a ritual, and it searches up anything. I find it very hand. Although it can't be really used as a storm card to net mana, (unless threshed ritual) it can find anything.
Re: [Deck] TES - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
chokin
This is the 'new and techy' change? So now we're essentially able to fully protect the combo from counters and CB+Top but our tutors are down to Brainstorm, Infernal Tutor, and Burning Wish(which only gets a few combo pieces as is)?
So looking closer at the SINGLE copy of the Draw4, and trying to stay true to the decks ability to go off before turn 4, we see this. In order to play it prior to turn 3, we have a few options.
T1 Possibilities:
-Land/Petal/Mox, Ritual, Draw4. (3-4 cards used, 4 drawn, +1-0 net draw)
-Land, Mox(remove black), Petal/Other Mox, Draw4. (5-6 cards used, 4 drawn, 1-2 cards lost)
T2 Possibilities:
-Land(T1), Land, Petal/Mox, Draw4. (3-4 Used, +1-0 net draw)
T3 Possibilities:
Land, Land, Land/Petal/Mox, Draw4. (0-3 used, +3-1 net draw)
What this shows is that the Draw4s are good for slower and later games. But is the huge amount of lifeloss worth the small card advantage? In turn 1, you're looking at losing around 8-10 life, turn 2, maybe 6-10, and turn 3, you've probably been hit by a creature or two by now so you'll be at around 8 life if you use the Draw4 and then have to wait another turn to go off.
The Draw4 only gets better with Plunge, because the life lost is smaller after a Plunge and the deck is thinned. Plunge can also negate some of the life loss after a Draw4 with a small warrens of 4+ tokens.
The deck needs Plunge in my opinion to support the huge loss of life given by the Draw4. That and I personally believe that the deck needs more tutoring power. Realistically, Infernal and Brainstorm are the only tutors in the deck. Infernal is limited to what it gives, because it'll rely off of what you have already, and Brainstorm only shows you 3 new cards and gives you 2 known(and possibly dead) draws unless you use an Infernal Tutor to shuffle it up. That's relying on 4 other cards in the deck to shuffle and give you new cards.
Plunge for more than 2 after a Brainstorm gives us a peek at more than what we already know. Hell, even Impulse does that. I think it's time to drop Abeyance and Draw4s for either of these, and I'm sure many people will agree.
The best card advantage generator for the deck is Dark Confidant, but since creature removal is so strong in Legacy, he can't be run.
S.I. and its 8 Draw4s and 0 Bobs, reasonably the fastest (though not the most consistant) deck in Legacy wants to have a word with you.
Bob actually is bad for the deck: it's tempo loss, for it takes 1 full turn to do something and 2 turns to give you card advantage. So much for trying to win as fast as possible.
Plunge into Darkness was once a staple in this deck, and it took us a long time to figure how bad it really was. No card advantage, sometimes the removal clause would bite us in the ass, I wanted to cry every time I got two of these as my tutors in the opening hand. Plus: It sucks with Draw4s. You almost never want to Plunge for less than 5 (and almost never ever want to plunge AFTER Brainstorm, for you want to see as many new cards as possible, so it is Plunge >> Brainstorm into 3 new cards. If you want to Plunge to remove cards put back with Brainstorm, this means long game, wich mean "Bad for you") one really steals raw power from the other.
Your take on the tutor suite shows how bad you need to test with the deck before posting. Infernal Tutor is more often than not Demonic Tutor (LED interaction) or Broken Acceleration Tutor. Burning Wish is the most busted card this deck could hope for. I really think that TES isn't a storm deck as much as it is a Burning Wish deck. The card makes the deck what it is: brutal, blunt and fast when it can and flexible, resilient and adaptable when it must.
Re: [Deck] TES - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Syco_Tr0pic
S.I. and its 8 Draw4s and 0 Bobs, reasonably the fastest (though not the most consistant) deck in Legacy wants to have a word with you.
Bob actually is bad for the deck: it's tempo loss, for it takes 1 full turn to do something and 2 turns to give you card advantage. So much for trying to win as fast as possible.
Plunge into Darkness was once a staple in this deck, and it took us a long time to figure how bad it really was. No card advantage, sometimes the removal clause would bite us in the ass, I wanted to cry every time I got two of these as my tutors in the opening hand. Plus: It sucks with Draw4s. You almost never want to Plunge for less than 5 (and almost never ever want to plunge AFTER Brainstorm, for you want to see as many new cards as possible, so it is Plunge >> Brainstorm into 3 new cards. If you want to Plunge to remove cards put back with Brainstorm, this means long game, wich mean "Bad for you") one really steals raw power from the other.
Your take on the tutor suite shows how bad you need to test with the deck before posting. Infernal Tutor is more often than not Demonic Tutor (LED interaction) or Broken Acceleration Tutor. Burning Wish is the most busted card this deck could hope for. I really think that TES isn't a storm deck as much as it is a Burning Wish deck. The card makes the deck what it is: brutal, blunt and fast when it can and flexible, resilient and adaptable when it must.
I agree, what do you guys think of Grim Tutor's?
if they were actually attainable i would run them EASILY! i'm just not sure i should shell out 300 for 2 tutors...
Re: [Deck] TES - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Syco_Tr0pic
S.I. and its 8 Draw4s and 0 Bobs, reasonably the fastest (though not the most consistant) deck in Legacy wants to have a word with you.
Bob actually is bad for the deck: it's tempo loss, for it takes 1 full turn to do something and 2 turns to give you card advantage. So much for trying to win as fast as possible.
Plunge into Darkness was once a staple in this deck, and it took us a long time to figure how bad it really was. No card advantage, sometimes the removal clause would bite us in the ass, I wanted to cry every time I got two of these as my tutors in the opening hand. Plus: It sucks with Draw4s. You almost never want to Plunge for less than 5 (and almost never ever want to plunge AFTER Brainstorm, for you want to see as many new cards as possible, so it is Plunge >> Brainstorm into 3 new cards. If you want to Plunge to remove cards put back with Brainstorm, this means long game, wich mean "Bad for you") one really steals raw power from the other.
Your take on the tutor suite shows how bad you need to test with the deck before posting. Infernal Tutor is more often than not Demonic Tutor (LED interaction) or Broken Acceleration Tutor. Burning Wish is the most busted card this deck could hope for. I really think that TES isn't a storm deck as much as it is a Burning Wish deck. The card makes the deck what it is: brutal, blunt and fast when it can and flexible, resilient and adaptable when it must.
First of all, I own the deck and play it relatively frequently. While I'm not the best at playing it, I am pretty good at playing it. I used to not like the deck but after sitting down with it and learning to play and sharpening my skills at combo(I played Thresh and WUB Fish for about 6 months) I got the feel for it.
Every single time I've had a Draw4 in hand, it almost always was too hard to cast(costs too many resources or I didn't have them to support it) or I would have rather have used Plunge for 8-10 to get my final combo piece.
Through my own experiences with TES, card advantage was never truly key in winning, but card quality was, and Plunge simply gives me a deep dig into the deck and can be nearly compared to Flash of Insight(aka Cheat) in Solidarity.
The idea of adding Bob came from an older list that had him come in post board to throw off your opponent(usually control matches). Yes it was a slower win, but it was a careful and more sure win with a hand with 8-9 cards when you decide to finally go off. Plus the 2 damage you'd hit them with was well worth it for a mini-clock making smaller Warrens or Tendrils an easier kill.
Infernal Tutor is a critical combo piece, yes. I played Iggy Pop and know of the LED interaction, but if I don't have an LED, Plunge got me one 80% of the time at the end of my opponents turn. After that I could easily pump out a ritual+petal and win from there.
Plunge isn't that great of a card. But it has saved my ass more than it has failed me. The Draw4s have maybe caused a win 3/10 times simply due to raw storm count than card quality. I think we can agree that usually the Draw4 is safer(no removed cards), but gives you less of a selection(4 random off the top).
With TES being a strange yet strong cousin of Iggy Pop(slower yet consistent) and SI(definetly fastest combo, but also very inconsistent), I was simply suggesting looking at the other two decks for ideas. Obviously Draw4 comes from SI, but SI has more black mana sources(4 Cabal Ritual and 4 Culling) to support and continue going off after playing a Draw4. TES has more of a balance between red, black, and mox/petal accelerators. Maybe the deck needs Cabal Ritual in place of a few if not all SSG, but I haven't able to cut myself from the free mana SSG gives although it doesn't add to the storm count.
I completely agree with you 100% that TES is more of a Burning Wish deck than just storm, but I don't agree with the use of a Draw4. If you thought that using Plunge bit you in the ass, what about Diminishing Returns removing the top 10 post shuffle? Does that mean you don't use that?
So the deck has Brainstorm, Infernal Tutor, Burning Wish as tutors. But since Infernal and Wish rely on having more mana after playing them, that means you need more fuel for the combo(rituals, mox, petals, open lands). Essentially, the Draw4 will eat 1-2 of these and you're hoping to draw 2-3 more off the top to go off by the next turn, which isn't unlikely, but I think that if you already have one LED, Plunge can just as easily(maybe even more reliably) set you up.
The last 4 slots are debatable. Bryant uses Abeyance and a Draw4, Gix said he liked Grim Tutor(which is a little easier to cast than Draw4 and it finds specific cards) and Cabal, you agree with Bryant's inclusion of the Draw4(though you haven't said much on the Abeyance), and I prefer more pseudo-tutors. There's always going to be slots within decks(hell, look at the many versions of Thresh or even Cephalid Breakfast) that won't be the same. I think it depends on playstyle and what you're familiar with or at least better at playing. I don't think we'll see eye-to-eye on the last 4 slots until something so amazing comes up that it's not a debate whether it belongs.
Re: [Deck] TES - The EPIC Storm
Hey,
I tested and played this deck a lot too. Here are some thoughts on this deck.
Xantid Swarm has a very useful ability but it is a creature. It makes the removal of
the opponent useful and not a dead card against us. I always don't want to have one in my hand. Same with Confidant. Bob is too slow in my eyes. The inclusion of Orim's Chants was a great step for this deck. I never tested Abeyance except in Cephalid Breakfast. But I don't think it fits into here.
Draw4s are nice but I cannot remember that I played them with good results. You draw 4 random cards and sometimes you have bad stuff on top of your library after a brainstorm. Most time in the combo. And I never wished for them. When I started testing this deck I didn't like Plunge but now I think it can be very useful and powerful.
The deck needs another tutor for more consistency. But which is the best. You figured out that Burnign Wish is the most powerful card in there and maybe Grim Tutor the next best choice for the open slots. We accept the life loss of the Draw4s so why shouldn't we give Death Wish a new chance. I know it was discussed several pages before but I think now it is time to think about it again. It can be very useful after a DReturns or just be like BWish #5. And another advantage (but only outside the deck strategy) is that it only coast 2-3$ and not 100+$ like a Grim Tutor.
Has anybody thought about Intuition right now?
Re: [Deck] TES - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SnakeEater
Hey,
I tested and played this deck a lot too. Here are some thoughts on this deck.
Xantid Swarm has a very useful ability but it is a creature. It makes the removal of
the opponent useful and not a dead card against us. I always don't want to have one in my hand. Same with Confidant. Bob is too slow in my eyes. The inclusion of Orim's Chants was a great step for this deck. I never tested Abeyance except in Cephalid Breakfast. But I don't think it fits into here.
Draw4s are nice but I cannot remember that I played them with good results. You draw 4 random cards and sometimes you have bad stuff on top of your library after a brainstorm. Most time in the combo. And I never wished for them. When I started testing this deck I didn't like Plunge but now I think it can be very useful and powerful.
The deck needs another tutor for more consistency. But which is the best. You figured out that Burnign Wish is the most powerful card in there and maybe Grim Tutor the next best choice for the open slots. We accept the life loss of the Draw4s so why shouldn't we give Death Wish a new chance. I know it was discussed several pages before but I think now it is time to think about it again. It can be very useful after a DReturns or just be like BWish #5. And another advantage (but only outside the deck strategy) is that it only coast 2-3$ and not 100+$ like a Grim Tutor.
Has anybody thought about Intuition right now?
Intuition is bad in Iggy Pop where most sane people have cut them for Draw4s , Grim Tutors, or Burning Wishes. Why would you play that card in here? You don't even run Cabal Rit or multiple IGGs, which are the only reasons anyone can give to play Intuition in the first place.
Grim Tutor is better than Death Wish because Grim Tutor finds Lion's Eye Diamond and Orim's Chant without diluting the threat density of the maindeck. Anyway, I still have yet to see the drawback of a 4 Chant, 3 Mystical, 4 Street Wraith configuration.
Re: [Deck] TES - The EPIC Storm
Hey, I just picked up TES a few months ago and I am very pleased with the deck. However, I have a few questions regarding sideboarding. I couldnt help but notice that Bryant Cook's list had 5 red blast effects on the side. I realize that the card is useful since it can counter permission spells and kill meddling mage. However, in an environment where U/G/w threshold is declining in popularity and U/G/r threshold is gaining players is a red blast effect really that useful?
My gripe with Red Elemental Blast and Pyroblast is that in order to counter a spell with it you need to first cast the spell and then wait for a response and then throw the blast out. Many of you are probably saying "duh, of course you do that is how counterspells work!" However, this is actually a drawback for TES since A) If you use the card to protect a storm spell from stifle such as a copy of Empty the Warrens, you will not boost your storm count towards the Warrens. Another problem with waiting to use an REB against a counterspell is that often in order to combo you must pop a Lion's Eye Diamond before passing priority to the permission player thus sending your protection to the graveyard before it can do anything but clog up your had.
I guess my point is that ussually Duress seems like a more useful protection card since it reveals information about your opponent's hand, it can jack up your storm count BEFORE you drop your storm spell and you can use it to attack a permission player even if you plan on popping an L.E.D. So is Pyroblast really better for this deck than Duress?
Re: [Deck] TES - The EPIC Storm
Intuition is horrible for this deck and is also a strange setup card in Iggy Pop. Death Wish doesn't seem like the best idea, but with Plunge or Returns, it gets better. Grim Tutor > Death Wish, but I also don't feel like spending $75-150 on one card.
I cut Xantid Swarm from the MD because he died too much before I could get him to swing. Xantids in the deck made my opponents spot removal much more relevant and valuable. Cutting Xantid gives me a total of 6 slots to play with.
If you decide to play Plunge, I think that testing Death Wish is worthwhile, but using Grim Tutor if you can afford it is much better.
@emilin - I think Street Wraith was cut because it hurt your mulligan decisions and Mystical Tutor is a bit slow(kills a draw). I haven't done much testing with that configuration myself, but I think there's better ways to achieve what those cards do.
Re: [Deck] TES - The EPIC Storm
is NOTHING holy.
WTF, i can't find Grim Tutor ANYWHERE for less that $130, even ebay, auctions ending in days are $99.
I wana kill the person in chanrge of the print runs from Portal, who decided we shouldn't reprint these cards...
Re: [Deck] TES - The EPIC Storm
My latest version of TES, it's working amazingly...
// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)
// NAME: The EPIC Storm
// AUTHOR: APriestOfGix
// Lands
2 [VI] Undiscovered Paradise
4 [CH] City of Brass
4 [TSB] Gemstone Mine
// Creatures
4 [PLC] Simian Spirit Guide
// Spells
3 [MM] Brainstorm
4 [DIS] Infernal Tutor
1 [AL] Diminishing Returns
4 [CS] Rite of Flame
3 [TSP] Empty the Warrens
4 [MI] Lion's Eye Diamond
4 [TE] Lotus Petal
4 [MR] Chrome Mox
1 [US] Ill-Gotten Gains
4 [JU] Burning Wish
1 [SC] Tendrils of Agony
1 [IA] Brainstorm
1 [TE] Dark Ritual
4 [PS] Orim's Chant
3 [MM] Dark Ritual
2 [TO] Cabal Ritual
2 [ST] Grim Tutor
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [AL] Diminishing Returns
SB: 1 [TSP] Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 [US] Ill-Gotten Gains
SB: 1 [SC] Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 [MI] Infernal Contract
SB: 3 [IA] Pyroblast
SB: 1 [GP] Shattering Spree
SB: 1 [IN] Tranquility
SB: 1 [US] Duress
SB: 1 [SC] Goblin War Strike
SB: 1 [MM] Cave-In
SB: 2 [4E] Red Elemental Blast
Re: [Deck] TES - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Syco_Tr0pic
Bob actually is bad for the deck: it's tempo loss, for it takes 1 full turn to do something and 2 turns to give you card advantage. So much for trying to win as fast as possible.
Bob is a side card against control matchup or decks like pikula.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Syco_Tr0pic
You almost never want to Plunge for less than 5 (and almost never ever want to plunge AFTER Brainstorm, for you want to see as many new cards as possible, so it is Plunge >> Brainstorm into 3 new cards. If you want to Plunge to remove cards put back with Brainstorm, this means long game, wich mean "Bad for you") one really steals raw power from the other.
Lol! Plunge is bad after brainstorm! Lol!
It removes crappy card from the top searching for the card you need to combo. Do you think instead that infernal contract is good after a brainstorm?!? And infernal contract is a joke, because it gives you random cards in hand. And it doesn't give you so much card advantage.You can see what chokin wrote some posts ago about an infernal contract played in the first 3 turns. Often you give only a +1 card advantage. It's a good trade for 10 lives, often a ritual effect and 4 new random card. Sure good...
I don't like so much the version of wastedlife.
7 main protections + 5 blasts in side. What do you side out against blue based decks? tutors? mana accelerations? With this configuration the deck is more slow. And I think that duress >> blasts because you can see the hand of opponent and also because you can't use pyroblast when you crack the LED. Ah, in any case, pyroblast >>> reb. I can take a warning for profanity if I have in hand a reb + infernal tutor instead of pyrobalst + infernal tutor.
A question: why do you use maindeck so many EtW? My metagame evolves and EtW is not a surprise card like a year ago. Now any deck have response to it maindeck. Now I'm using only 1 EtW maindeck + 1 in side.
EDIT: In italy 2 top8 at a 50+ tournament. Others top8 with alternative builds more similar to teps from extended.
Re: [Deck] TES - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
APriestOfGix
is NOTHING holy.
WTF, i can't find Grim Tutor ANYWHERE for less that $130, even ebay, auctions ending in days are $99.
I wana kill the person in chanrge of the print runs from Portal, who decided we shouldn't reprint these cards...
While I have about 15 pages to catch up on before I can post anything effective in regards to the deck itself, I need to correct you here. Portal cards are not on the "DNR" list, Sleight of Hand was originally a Portal card before being reprinted, and it's still been rumored that Wizards is seeking to remprint Imperial Seal or the other "tutors" at some point because they are all pretty balanced outside of Legacy/Vintage as a Sorcery, and unfairly hard to get because of their Portal status.
Re: [Deck] TES - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DeathwingZERO
While I have about 15 pages to catch up on before I can post anything effective in regards to the deck itself, I need to correct you here. Portal cards are not on the "DNR" list, Sleight of Hand was originally a Portal card before being reprinted, and it's still been rumored that Wizards is seeking to remprint Imperial Seal or the other "tutors" at some point because they are all pretty balanced outside of Legacy/Vintage as a Sorcery, and unfairly hard to get because of their Portal status.
Yea, Imperial Seal is so balanced that it is banned in legacy and restricted in Vintage.
Just because those cards are not on the "do not print" list, doesn't really mean they will reprint them.
Re: [Deck] TES - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ClearSkies
Yea, Imperial Seal is so balanced that it is banned in legacy and restricted in Vintage.
Just because those cards are not on the "do not print" list, doesn't really mean they will reprint them.
Very true.
Grim Tutor and Imperial Seal will never be reprinted. Sadly that means to have a good TES list i'm going to need to find 300 sitting in my room somewhere. Anyone have a money tree?
Re: [Deck] TES - The EPIC Storm
Well, just guessing from everyone's responses, no one likes the current list that Bryant had put up. Not saying anything negative, but just noting that maybe the deck was going in the wrong direction. I agree that there was too much protection, not enough tutor.
@Gix - that list looks really good. I just might have to test it out and maybe fork out the 300 for the damn Grims...
Re: [Deck] TES - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
chokin
Well, just guessing from everyone's responses, no one likes the current list that Bryant had put up. Not saying anything negative, but just noting that maybe the deck was going in the wrong direction. I agree that there was too much protection, not enough tutor.
@Gix - that list looks really good. I just might have to test it out and maybe fork out the 300 for the damn Grims...
Yeah Bryants list looks good maybe in his meat where everyone is trying to hate TES, but in a normal, you play non-control decks, making 7 main deck combo/control stoppers not needed as much (he also runs 5 more in the board. Really? what does he take out for a total of 12 disruption to Control!?!?!?)
The grim list i have been running is amazing. The board is the only thing i need to tamper with, and siding out Grim's for Pyroblast it tech, when you Wish up a Grim, and use it for +storm.
I think the list is very solid, the ONLY problem i'm encountering is Grim's being so much.
I encourage everyone to give the Grim;s a try, i LOVE them, and would even run more, if i had the space/cash.
Edit: I'm also thinking about maybe aybance in the board? It's more expensive than the Blasts, but it can be used against Belcher, or other combo to stop them, as well as being better against counters, cause you can DReturns/IGG and not worry about drawn/recurred counters.
Re: [Deck] TES - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jegger
Bob is a side card against control matchup or decks like pikula.
Lol! Plunge is bad after brainstorm! Lol!
It removes crappy card from the top searching for the card you need to combo. Do you think instead that infernal contract is good after a brainstorm?!? And infernal contract is a joke, because it gives you random cards in hand. And it doesn't give you so much card advantage.You can see what chokin wrote some posts ago about an infernal contract played in the first 3 turns. Often you give only a +1 card advantage. It's a good trade for 10 lives, often a ritual effect and 4 new random card. Sure good...
I don't like so much the version of wastedlife.
7 main protections + 5 blasts in side. What do you side out against blue based decks? tutors? mana accelerations? With this configuration the deck is more slow. And I think that duress >> blasts because you can see the hand of opponent and also because you can't use pyroblast when you crack the LED. Ah, in any case, pyroblast >>> reb. I can take a warning for profanity if I have in hand a reb + infernal tutor instead of pyrobalst + infernal tutor.
A question: why do you use maindeck so many EtW? My metagame evolves and EtW is not a surprise card like a year ago. Now any deck have response to it maindeck. Now I'm using only 1 EtW maindeck + 1 in side.
I'm saying, if you can read instead of being a jerk, that either Infernal Contract OR Plunge into Darkness are bad after Brainstorm. You should almost always try for Brainstorm AFTER resolving one of those. It's not desirable to pay life to see cards you already saw. By the way, good arguments there: "lol" always sounds rational and convincing.
As for "Infernal Contract is a joke", I don't think I lost many games after resolving my copy of the Contract. Yes, it gets four random cards, but its not like those four cards are going to suck because of that. This deck can easily win off 7-10 random cards (opening hand + draw phases). Contract is half an opening hand right there. Of course I already fizzled after IC, but so I did after Diminishing Returns. It's a fact of life: combo decks fizzle sometimes. My only problem with the card is that it makes you adapt your number of Black Rituals to be at its fullest.
About Bob, I don't think it's productive to go on with this kind of discussion, but ok: Bob WAS a side card against control (discard or blue based) until it became clear that the card was, in fact, a waste of resources, resources that could have been used to win the game instead of making it drag for more turns. Using Bob you give up tempo, mana and a card for the promise of CA in TWO turns. Worse: you don't disrupt the opponent. Their FoW and Stifle are just as good if your hand consists of 6 or 9 cards. Orim's Chant does this job more cheaply and more handly. The Blasts/Pyros are a good complement to the Chant plan, and they can destroy Meddling Mage should the mofo come into play (unlike duress, that can't get rid of the bastard in any way you slice it). That said, I really think we need to test Thoughtseize, though. The card is absurdly promising. It doesn't get rid of a resolved M.Mage (just like Duress), but sure it nails the bugger if his owner didn't cast him yet. More than that, MM is in decline, being Red the color du jour for *****, and Fish not being that popular, but we can never be sure with Gaddock Teeg threatening to give more weapons to white *****. Well, I digress.
@ the number of MD ETW, I think it's correct to maximize the chances of the 10-12 goblins draw: the earlier you cover the board with red men, the less their answers matter, and it seems healthy to avoid the ETW kill after the second turn, when they are more prepared to respond to a horde.
Oh so many words. Sorry for the long post guys.
Re: [Deck] TES - The EPIC Storm
I am trying one Ponder as a wishtarget ATM. It might be good, i believe at least better than the Goblin war strike I saw some people running.
Re: [Deck] TES - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Syco_Tr0pic
It's a fact of life: combo decks fizzle sometimes.
Only for storm based combo. MOST combo can't fizzle, since it is an infinite loop built around 2-3 cards.
