[Deck] Spanish Inquisition (B/x Storm Combo)

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Originally Posted by Vacrix

Actually I think the deck works better with 8 D4s. There are very few occasions in which I wish for a D4 and more often than not in this build, I find myself short on business after D4's. Its much harder to chain D4's together when you only run 7 MD.

I also liked IGG postboard, but also maindeck? In the case that you are trying the IGG loop, you will likely have an LED post Infernal Tutor in which case Slithermuse into 7 new cards looks like a strong alternative. I think that slot might be put to better use, probably as a 3rd ESG as you want that Daze protection and access to green postboard for Xantid Swarm.

Have you ever had issues color fixing? I like that Pact-->Cantor imprint on Chrome Mox can also give you access to red. Thats pretty badass. I like Witness. With additional land maindeck, it looks like it would be a nice set up card since you will have the perpetual resources to set up. It might be worth playing in that IGG slot actually.

Virtue's Ruin looks decent with the extra land. It conveniently hits all the bears that might give us trouble. Consider, though, that all the bears have 2 toughness. Why not play pyroclasm? It also helps when you are in the Belcher Mirror facing down EtW tokens and can't go off in time, or are kinda stuck against aggro.

I think you did the land configuration correctly. Thats how I would play it. Now I just need to find myself a badlands.

Considering that this build enables us to set up now more often than the other builds, its certainly worth exploring Duress/Thoughtseize/Cabal Therapy postboard as a supplement to EtW. Cabal Therapy looks the best if we also play Birds of Paradise as a perpetual manasource and therefore also a resource to work with Culling and Therapy.


I'm confused. You said consider Death Wish instead of Burning Wish but that Death Wish was better than Infernal Tutor in testing. Wouldn't in then make sense to replace Infernal Tutor with Death Wish?
Considering that we have access to D7's now, we have much better resources to find with Death Wish. I haven't tested it yet in Pact SI with D7's but it looks pretty strong. Running Burning Wish and Death Wish means that we will usually be going to our board for goodies. Then again, if we run a maindeck Slithermuse, then Infernal Tutor also lets you access D7's for 1 less than Death Wish does.

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-) I have to try the 8 D4s in the MD again, but I guess you're right, as a wish-less version with 8 MD ran smoother (but could also have had other reasons.

-) No, I think IGG really deserves it's slot. IT into Slithermuse is nuts and all, but the win is often dependent on what you draw with Slithermuse, but really often the IGG-loop is enough for a guaranteed win.

-) Colorfixing is rarely an issue, between 4 manamorphose, 4 chrome mox and 4 pact to get Cantor or Odious Trow to set Mox to all colors, I rarely had problems. Actually I'm running a Trow instead of the Witness now, often it's the better choice, but sometimes I also wish I was running Witness.

-) Thx for the pyroclasm hint, I wonder why I didn't come up with it.

-) Burning Wish and Death Wish both? Really? This would also mean that we have to increase MD win cons or rely on wishing for a wincon, which can become quite manaintensive. But interesting thougt, have to try it.

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Originally Posted by Philipp2293

-) I have to try the 8 D4s in the MD again, but I guess you're right, as a wish-less version with 8 MD ran smoother (but could also have had other reasons.

-) No, I think IGG really deserves it's slot. IT into Slithermuse is nuts and all, but the win is often dependent on what you draw with Slithermuse, but really often the IGG-loop is enough for a guaranteed win.

-) Colorfixing is rarely an issue, between 4 manamorphose, 4 chrome mox and 4 pact to get Cantor or Odious Trow to set Mox to all colors, I rarely had problems. Actually I'm running a Trow instead of the Witness now, often it's the better choice, but sometimes I also wish I was running Witness.

-) Thx for the pyroclasm hint, I wonder why I didn't come up with it.

-) Burning Wish and Death Wish both? Really? This would also mean that we have to increase MD win cons or rely on wishing for a wincon, which can become quite manaintensive. But interesting thougt, have to try it.

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Well IGG is great but rarely do I like to draw it while going off. Slithermuse.. at least with Manamorphose and color fixing action, is a pretty happy topdeck. I've had a good amount of luck with the top 7, especially when there is mana floating. IGG might be a guarenteed win, but if Slithermuse works just as well, there isn't much of a reason to run IGG unless its to be safe (which is understandable). Are you getting jank with Slithermuse or would rather just have IGG there as a possible out? Slithermuse might not be necessary then. IGG is safer but a less reliable top deck. Adding Slithermuse into the deck at all was a suggestion purely at replacing IGG, not as a supplement. I haven't tested it enough to know either way (too much work this week) but from my limited semi-experience with it, it usually gives me a decent 5-7 cards.

If possible we should minimize the number of Manamorphose in the deck so we can fit in more business spells. I was thinking about replacing a few MM's with a few SSG's. Then you have more Daze protection, and access to red for Burning Wish and EtW. It might be better than trying to directly color fix when you can just add the mana with SSG, though I like having my D4's be D5's.

I don't think its a good idea to run Burning Wish and Death Wish, but I was questioning what Breathweapon actually meant in his post. Either we should try to replace BW with DW, or replaced IT with DW. Either way, I'm not the biggest fan of Death Wish so I'll leave it to others to test that.

Null Profusion still intrigues me. Emidln said a while back that it was good as a 1 of and that if you dropped it, you usually one. Maybe it could replace Belcher in the land builds.

Also, now that we are running lands. Crop Rotation can act as a color fixer (CR, sac Bayou-->Badlands), thins the deck (CR, sac Bayou-->Fetch-->Badlands), and can act as a Culling target (CR, sac Bayou--> Dryad Arbor). With more land, CR might be worth considering. It will be a dead card without land, but when we start chaining D4's together, we will likely run into some lands.

@Vacrix: Hows testing with the Living Wish list going?

Not testing yet. Just hypothesizing so I have something good on paper to work with. I'm rather busy with school right now. I've been talking about it alot with different magic peeps to explore different avenues. I've concluded to at some point test a list like this:

Pact SI w/ LW:
Business:
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Ill-Gotten Gains/Slithermuse
4 Living Wish
4 Infernal Tutor
4 Infernal Contract
4 Cruel Bargain

Mana:
1 Odious Trow
4 Chromatic Sphere
4 Summoner's Pact
3 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
3 Chrome Mox
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Culling the Weak
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Badlands
1 Bayou
1 Dryad Arbor

SB:
1 Tinderwall
1 Crimson Kobold
1 Ingot Chewer
1 Magus of the Moon
2 Slithermuse
1 Auriok Salvagers
4 Xantid Swarm
4 Empty the Warrens

Such a list would be really tricky to put together. Its intriguing though to say the least. Feel free to play test it on MWS. I'm not sure how to split up the manasources now that we are trying to run land in the Pact list. More Chrome Mox? Or more ESG? We need ESG to play Living Wish but we like Chrome Mox against control.

The times I've goldfished with Null Profusion I haven't really liked it. The few times I've had it at a relevant time, it would have been better as a IGG/Slithermuse. It usually uses most of my cards to get 6 mana, and even if I've had 1-2 cards left, the engine can randomly stall.

Agreed. It can stall. The advantage, though, is if you can play it out (much like Belcher) it has inevitability. I think that its now outdated tech when we have access to Draw7's for about the same mana.

Old news, but how does this work?

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Agreed. Meditate is better in certain situations though. Namely, if you play staying mana sources like Chrome Mox and Land, you can play it at the end of your opponents turn, and then go off on your turn with 11 cards in hand.

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You skip your next turn with Meditate, which is what keeps the card balanced.

Yes. Either Meditate eats a counter, you untap and go off, or they will let Meditate resolve, take the extra turn, and then you can go off with a full grip. This would be much harder against a player who can apply various sorts of pressure ie. threatening countermagic and perma hate and a reasonable clock. Its honestly a tough call though for a control player. Going off with 10-11 cards in hand means you will likely threaten 2 draw spells, and in certain versions (like QSI) a protection spell. Its not as great of a play though if your opponent is threatening a devastating 2nd combat step, which can happen when you are facing down Goyf and friends.

EDIT:
Also, if your opponent counters Meditate, he might be tapped out and therefore unable to counter anything else after a full turn of playing spells and then a counter at the end of turn.

EDIT2:
Also, keep in mind that the decks that abuse Meditate the best (QSI) have staying mana sources like land to facilitate that play. Having 11 cards in hand is extremely powerful when you can manipulate the card quality of that hand with Ponders//Brainstorms + Fetchlands and then go off. Such manipulation is much harder in builds without perpetual resources. QSI is really the best place for Meditate because it runs land, cantrips, and all the goodies of SI. Its just a little bit slower than I'd like it to be. In a control heavy meta, I'd certainly play it over Pact SI. In fact, I've been wanting to switch to that build for quite some time. All I need is those elusive Underground Seas and the deck is complete.

I went 2-4 at Knightware, playing against Zoo, Dredge, Painter/Stone, Rogue, Zoo, Reanimator. Almost all of my matchups were extremely close. I made a few misplays (I haven't played SI in a few months) but mostly I just lost to Lady Luck. I'll post a comprehensive report when I have more time. Lots of school work to take care of this week.

Keen on reading your report as well as a 'if I played tomorrow' list Vacrix!

I guess I'll write up the tournament report today, while its still relatively fresh.

To begin, it was a really fun day. I enjoyed the hell out of my list, even though it proved to be a little unlucky. I played the following list. Basically the exact same MD as last time (except -1 IGG, +1 Slithermuse), but with a slightly different board:

Pact SI:
Business:
2 Goblin Charbelcher
3 Tendrils of Agony
1 Slithermuse
4 Infernal Tutor
4 Infernal Contract
4 Cruel Bargain

Mana:
1 Eternal Witness
1 Odious Trow
2 Manamorphose
4 Summoner's Pact
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Chrome Mox
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Culling the Weak
4 Land Grant
1 Bayou
1 Dryad Arbor

SB:
4 Xantid Swarm
4 Tomb of Urami
4 Carpet of Flowers
3 Unmask

REPORT:
Match 1, Oliver (Suapchai) w/ Zoo.
Game 1, I steam roll him with a turn 1 Draw4 chain into ToA.
Game 2, I mulligan to 5 cards (though I should have kept my initial 7 in hindsight). I am on the draw so I draw, with a hand like ESG, Petal, MM, D4, Ritual, D4. I manage to pull off a pretty good chain of spells, but I have ToA in hand, 1 short of the win. I pass, he bolts me twice and I lose.
Game 3, I keep a great opening 7, and win turn 1.
2-1
(1-0)

Match 2, Kyle w/ Dredge.
I played this guy before and I know he was either playing Dredge or an ANT variant. Either way, I knew I had to steal the win quickly.
Game 1, My initial 7 was utter crap. I threw it back for a even shittier 6, and played with a no-business hand of 5 cards on the draw. We play draw go for a little while. I'm one card short of going off, anything would help really, but he gets off a good dredge and reanimates Iona to seal the game.
Game 2, I have a great opening hand. I begin chaining D4's together, anticipating either an Unmask on his turn or a FoW on mine. Eventually I get up to 9 storm and 4 mana. I cast ToA for 20 and he has the Force. He goes to 1. Unfortunately, I had already played Summoner's Pact...but fortunately I had an LED, so I nuked my hand in my upkeep and sat their with a Chrome Mox (black) for a few turns, while I assembled a winning hand of Pact, LED, Dark Ritual, Infernal Tutor. He had mulliganed to 5 for that hand so I was in a pretty good position after his FoW.
Game 3, I start the D4 chain and run out of gas, barely. I was B short of the win, yet again. As I try to rebuild, we play draw go for a while until he gets the resources he needs to go off. He has quite a few cards in hand when I lose, having the resources for FoW.
1-2
(1-1)

Match 3, UR Painter/Grindstone.dec
This guy was a terrible player. He admitted it himself actually. In fact, he was the same guy that at the last Knightware tournament, tried to Chain of Vapor his Grindstone in response to FoW... He had no idea what I was playing or how to play against it; a huge asset.
Game 1, He let Slithermuse resolve early via MM + Dark Ritual, refilling my hand to 6 cards (it was a draw 4 essentially). I played a bunch of lands, and Chrome Moxen over the next few turns. I try to resolve Belcher, and it gets countered. He gets out his Painter's Servant and his Grindstone, and turns off my Bayou with a Magus. I try to go off with 4 cards in hand, chaining the D4's together. I abuse LED tricks with Eternal Witness to get business back from the grave. I get a madly good D4 into LED x2, Infernal Tutor, Dark Ritual. Unfortunately, he turned off my Bayou so I was completely out of black sources, and lost on the following turn. Very close game though.
Game 2, I resolve an early Carpet of Flowers which winds up producing 1 a turn for a few turns, but eventually produces 2 per turn. It was very useful in try to resolve D4s. At some point, I think I have him, so I attempt to go off, I have plenty of resources in hand, and on the board, but I lose next turn to his combo. He lets my D4's resolve (I have plenty of resources), and then he tries to counter ToA for 26. He doesn't realize that the storm copies still go on the stack and loses. There wasn't much he could have done anyway though. I had ALOT of resources on the board.
Game 3, I resolve an early Xantid Swarm off an ESG, with Culling the Weak, Chrome Mox, D4, LED, and Belcher in hand. So I basically have the win next turn as I draw a Land Grant. Unfortunately, he bounces by Swarm on his turn with Chain of Vapor, and then FoW's it when I try to recast it off Land Grant. At some point later in the game, I get Belcher down, and Belch, but it misfires, dealing him only 11 or something. Then he Chain of Vapors it to my hand... I recast it again at some point but he kills me before I can activate it on the following turn. Really close games yet again.
1-2
(1-2)

Match 4, Rogue
This guy was playing an absolutely horrible deck. It was some sort of weird ass Teferi's Puzzle Box + Underworld Dreams deck. His other strategy was to donate an Immortal Coil to the opponent with Bazaar trader and then Bojuka Bog the opponent for the win. I know. Disgustingly bad. He wasn't trolling either. He thought it was really good.
Game 1, He is on the play, and gets a turn 1 Hymn taking 2 mana sources. I'm afraid of more discard so I try to go off. Unfortunately, I'm just one mana away from the win, and die to my Summoner's Pact on the following turn. Pathetic I know..
Game 2, I have a decent hand, but it just needs one piece to go off. I lay down the Chrome Mox, and the LED, and pass. He plays turn 1 Dark Ritual, SSG, Teferi's Puzzle box. I draw, and then put all my cards on the bottom, and draw a hand with something like Dark Ritual, Infernal Tutor, and Land Grant. So I play them out, find Belcher, and Pass. I Belch on the following turn for the win.
Game 3, He plays mountain, turn 1 Winds of Change. I draw a new 7, go off and win.
2-1
(2-2)

Match 5, Zoo w/ MD Teeg
Game 1, I have a great turn 2/3 hand with Belcher. I know he is playing Zoo so I get WAY too comfortable. Instead of playing Belcher, and passing into LED, I play my first Land Grant, looking for Dryad Arbor, and wait a turn. He plays turn 2 Teeg (having played first), and I can't win. Play mistake...
Game 2, I have a great hand, but he has Mindbreak Trap AND Teeg.. Lame.
0-2
(2-3)

Match 6, Reanimator
Game 1 is terribly one sided. He plays first, Underground Sea, pass, EOT Entomb. I play LED, pass, planning to go off on the next turn. He plays Exhume getting Iona, and I fold, unable to deal with his shit. However, I trick him into thinking I'm playing Dredge by just playing the LED. He doesn't know how to board against me.
Game 2, I get some D4's off, but my Belcher gets countered. I have a lot of perpetual resources so I keep trying to resolve my D4's which meet Daze's (no ESG's). Eventually I get off Belcher and get him down to a very low amount of life. He Chain of Vapors it in response though. I try to recast it, and it meets a FoW. Eventually I start beating him to death with Dryad Arbor, and he is unable to Reanimate his Iona for the win (his life total is too low). Eventually I get ESG down and just start swinging. Then he topdecks Mystical Tutor and finds Exhume, while at 1 life. He plays it, but I crack LED in response and put Slithermuse into my grave. I now have 2 creatures to his one, and win during my next attack step. We were both at 1 prior to this play. Seriously one of the most epic games I've ever played.
Game 3, I get the turn 1 Belcher down and activate. I misfire dealing him 15 or something, and he is unable to play reanimate again. He Chain of Vapors my Belcher and we play the counterwars again. I'm stuck without any lands for quite some time. We trade my business for his counters for quite some time until he assembles the win. Really close game again.
1-2
(2-4)

Conclusion? I was 1 short of winning SO many times, it was ridiculous. Carpet of Flowers was a decent board card and Slithermuse was a great replacement for IGG. I did notice that the longer games take, the worse Slithermuse gets. Its really good in the early turns of the game, and mediocre later on. I had a few Eternal Witness lines of play. There was one hand in which I really wanted to Pact-->Wild Cantor + ESG to get the initial black mana. Other than that, Trow was used more often.
I lost 2 games to play mistakes, and a few to just being out played. I think that the Dredge and Reanimator matchups can be difficult when the players are skilled. My opponent knew what they were doing. If I were to do it again, I might try playing some number of Planar Voids in place of some number of Tomb of Urami's, but likely 4 for 4. Tomb is great in one matchup these days; Merfolk. There wasn't much Merfolk this or last time so I should have anticipated that and played 4 Void.

EDIT:
Also, it seems like Echoing Truth is seeing way more play for EtW tokens and such. I think we should drop Tomb from the board entirely.

I have seen a few bit of Echoing Truth as well, although how many would leave it in/side it in Game 2 before they know you have Tomb of Urami? And if they did have ET, then they'll just bounce your Planar Void anyways. Also doesn't Void mean no IGG/Eternal Witness action? Is being able to recast Planar Void worth it being symmetrical and costing 1 (as opposed to Leyline)?

Cheers for the report & bad beats in some games. I was asking about white hate bears (teeg, canonist) recently - could you see Deathmark replacing Tomb of Urami?

I'm sure they will just board in Truth anyway in anticipation of EtW or something like that postboard. Planar Void is specifically used as grave hate. Ichorid has a lot of trouble playing around it, AND preventing me from going off. I am not running IGG right now anyway so thats not really affected. Considering its a postboard card too.. I can just board out Ewit. I think Void is better because even if it gets bounced, its extremely easy to replay. Its hardly an investment at all and its a bomb against quite a few decks. As for the Leyline being asymetrical, symetry shuts down Goyf. When your opponent can't get stuff into his grave, your grave can still feed his Goyfs. This is key against Thresh. If you go, Land/Chrome Mox --> Void, Thresh is playing with 0/1 Goyfs and 1/1 Geese. Seems pretty good to me. I'll give it a try next time.

Death Mark could replace Tomb but IDK. I don't usually have to race a hatebear so I didn't bother with it until recently.

Hey Ben (Vacrix), I was your round 6 reanimator player and what epic games they were, good plays from both of us. Your round 5 zoo opponent was my friend and he's new to legacy, with a set of gaddock teeg and mindbreak traps that's a lot of hate but he had no idea what you were playing, he told me bw homebrew and failed to mention charbelcher. If he had told me BW with charbelcher I would have known you were Spanish Inquisition but instead when we played I kept calling your deck homebrew, and in the 2nd game I didn't side in any of my pithing needle or null rods. But I ended up playing against a very good player with a good deck, it was fun.

Yo, I forgot your name, sorry. Alexander I guess? Yeah our games were pretty legit man. When you were saying Homebrew, I didn't think you actually were talking about BW Homebrew. By homebrew, I thought you were referring to 'my own build of something', in this case, SI. I actually don't even play white. I guess he saw a Bayou and put me on Homebrew. A new player might make that mistake. Those games were definitely some of the best I've played in the tournament scene. Next time I will have Planar Voids ready for you and the Dredge players.



Aside, I think I'm going to keep my Carpet of Flowers in the board. They weren't back breakingly good but they are a perpetual resource that facilitates multiple attempts at going off and color fix.

Now I'm considering going down a route that Belcher players have tried: Goblin Welder (in place of Tomb of Urami). Its completely nuts when trying to play around Countermagic. You counter my Belcher? No problem I have a Welder for that. You can even Weld back LED's to interact with Infernal Tutor, D4's, Burning Wish, etc. I would have to run 4 Belcher for this plan to work more effectively, but I've played a 4 Belcher, 1 ToA configuration before and its pretty good. Thoughts on this approach?

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Originally Posted by Vacrix

Death Mark could replace Tomb but IDK. I don't usually have to race a hatebear so I didn't bother with it until recently.

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Just brainstorming here but other options along this line might include Ghastly Demise, Vendetta and Slaughter Pact. If we wanted something for this slot, which one gets the nod?

Depends really. Slaughter Pact is excellent if we assemble the resources to win on THAT turn (or Belch in the upkeep). People have run Death Mark in the past though. In general, though, I'd prefer to play Oxidize/Ingot Chewer because I run into Cannonist and Thorn more often than anything else. However, many decks run Teeg now. For example, some Survival builds run Teeg AND countermagic, which can be a real bitch. In that case, maybe Death Mark is worth considering.

Would Dream Salvage be any good in combination with IGG?

It could work but its pretty much dead without IGG so its likely not worth it. I would be a pretty funny play though if you played IGG getting back Infernal Tutor and some rituals IT--> Dream Salvage. I'm testing Slithermuse in the IGG slot right now anyway and I absolutely love it.

With the banning of Mystical Tutor, I think its safe to assume that aggro will dominate the metagame in the near-future. I think SI variants can fill the ANT niche (less combo means less hate). I think I'm going to start putting together QSI now that Underground Seas are probably going to fly off the shelves. Any thoughts on the meta shift?