Re: [Deck] T.E.S - The EPIC Storm
TES, is very "Im good to you if you play me right" I think. Seriously I read his report and am often like "if there was a land..." and hes on the draw and he tops 1 of 10 lands and goes off. The also the reason he couldnt go off is that he would have to iggy for chant chant wish/IT (he had force stifle spell snare he would get back) I may not have seen the mox not being unimprinted but you were playing vs MUC. Not an amazing MU, but The deck doesnt have enough outs.
No offence to that MU (nearing an awful MU at about 50/50 or slightly better:tongue: ), but post board is hellfrigginglarious. swarm/shusher, go. T2 Win, kill you.
This deck is probably 1 if not the best deck in the format (It has NO MU worse then 50/50 if your great with it or named bryant cook.) BUT it is one of if not the MOST difficult deck to learn in all of magic (WELL IN VINTAGE... theres TPS.... and other storm decks)
Honestly theres a couple things about this deck that are unique to it.
You can play beltcher esque games with ETW. Or you can play FT/IGGy pop game types that go to turn 3-5. You also have the best recovery in the game in terms of top decks. You have about 13 cards that are bombs in topdecks. (draw 4s, D turns, ETW, IGGy, and 8 tutors.) As well as 8 cantrips that up consistentcy.
Granted..... Im not for the draw 4s... but sadly they are a needed evil, they make mulling better, give you overwhelming CA, and degenerate speed. Very very good, sadly though they are a little risky.(unless your name is bryant cook where you Draw 4 into LED, lotus pedal, IT, D ritual, about a 1/4th of the time:laugh: )
In short, your not playing regular magic when you play TES. Your playing a combination of poker and magic.
Reading your opponent, calling thier bluff. READING THE DECK and rolling the dice is how the deck works.
Re: [Deck] T.E.S - The EPIC Storm
Hi, this is my first post. Sorry for my english.
I'm thinking to play in my SD 2/3 Krosan Grip versus CB. It's a good card. You can play Krosan eot and storming in your turn.
Versus ichorid I play in my SD 2/3 Wheel of Sun and Moon. It's a good card versus tide,also.
@edit:
This is my list:
// Lands
4 [8E] City of Brass
4 [TSB] Gemstone Mine
1 [OD] Tarnished Citadel
2 [VI] Undiscovered Paradise
// Creatures
4 [PLC] Simian Spirit Guide
2 [SC] Xantid Swarm
// Spells
4 [MM] Dark Ritual
4 [MR] Chrome Mox
4 [TE] Lotus Petal
4 [MI] Lion's Eye Diamond
4 [JU] Burning Wish
4 [MM] Brainstorm
1 [SC] Tendrils of Agony
4 [PS] Orim's Chant
1 [US] Ill-Gotten Gains
1 [6E] Diminishing Returns
1 [TSP] Empty the Warrens
4 [CS] Rite of Flame
3 [DIS] Infernal Tutor
2 [TO] Cabal Ritual
2 [MI] Mystical Tutor
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [SC] Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 [US] Ill-Gotten Gains
SB: 1 [6E] Diminishing Returns
SB: 1 [DIS] Infernal Tutor
SB: 2 [4E] Red Elemental Blast
SB: 1 [7E] Tranquility
SB: 1 [MM] Cave-In
SB: 3 [GP] Shattering Spree
SB: 2 [SHM] Wheel of Sun and Moon
SB: 2 [SHM] Vexing Shusher
I must play two xantid MD because in my metagame there're a lot of Thresh and blue decks.
Re: [Deck] T.E.S - The EPIC Storm
EWWW less then 4 IT is insane. start with
-2 mystic tutor
-2 cabal ritual
-1 undiscovered paradice
-2 xantid swarm
First off, mystic tutor is horrible, it has been discussed throughly and isnt playable. Cabal is the same way. Undiscovered isnt needed you need exactly 10 lands. Swarm in the main is awful it means they keep in removal against you, if you must play play more disruption play P blast.
+1 IT
+4 ponder
+2 variable slots which could be draw 4s, ETW or if you REALLY think it would help some blasts (ETW is best in a thresh meta)
SB
-2 wheel of sun and moon
-1 cave in
-1 tranquility
-1 IT (YOU NEVER WISH FOR IT)
-2 REB
+2 xantid swarm
+1 ETW
+1 Cleanfall
+2 Vexing susher
+1 pyroclasm
Clasm> Cave in
Swarm is a SB card > REB
Cleanfall is better then tranquility, but it doesnt matter
Ichorid loses this MU, wheel of sun and moon sucks against it, even if you were to play more hate it would be abances and nothing else.
ETW MUST BE 1 SBED!!!!!!! You need to be able to get to 6 wish for and play it
Re: [Deck] T.E.S - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
undone
EWWW less then 4 IT is insane. start with
-2 mystic tutor
-2 cabal ritual
-1 undiscovered paradice
-2 xantid swarm
First off, mystic tutor is horrible, it has been discussed throughly and isnt playable. Cabal is the same way. Undiscovered isnt needed you need exactly 10 lands. Swarm in the main is awful it means they keep in removal against you, if you must play play more disruption play P blast.
+1 IT
+4 ponder
+2 variable slots which could be draw 4s, ETW or if you REALLY think it would help some blasts (ETW is best in a thresh meta)
SB
-2 wheel of sun and moon
-1 cave in
-1 tranquility
-1 IT (YOU NEVER WISH FOR IT)
-2 REB
+2 xantid swarm
+1 ETW
+1 Cleanfall
+2 Vexing susher
+1 pyroclasm
Clasm> Cave in
Swarm is a SB card > REB
Cleanfall is better then tranquility, but it doesnt matter
Ichorid loses this MU, wheel of sun and moon sucks against it, even if you were to play more hate it would be abances and nothing else.
ETW MUST BE 1 SBED!!!!!!! You need to be able to get to 6 wish for and play it
Look, why bother with the -a, -b, -c; +d, +e, +f, when all you want to say is: "Just copy the current list Bryant uses.".
I don't think that is something people are looking for, I suspect they are smart enough to just copy the list mentioned most if they want to.
It's not like Bryants current list is they one and only good TES list. There are some slots that should not be changed, but a lot of slots are pretty open. Some things are a matter of preference.
It's not true that Cabal Ritual is unplayable in TES, I play it twice and not because I can't find the standard list. It's very good when there are many Hymns in your meta and sucks less than the 4th SSG I believe because you never want 2 of those. (The same for Mox)
10 lands isn't the only way either, 11 is fine, if you play a little different. My list plays 11 lands, 3 Moxes and 3 SSG, so I am a little more consistent and a little slower.
Xantid Swarm is a fine card, I won a lot with TES with 4 Swarm main and if he needs more than 4 protection in his meta, fine.
The 4th Tutor main IS pretty necessary, I agree.
Also I would add some Ponders instead of the Mysticals and maybe 1 SSG/Chrome Mox. 4 is definitely not necessary, but at least 2 is good.
1 EtW in the SB is very, very, very important. This may just be a mistake, but you should really change that. I'm not impressed with the Wheel, Sb, but ok.
Re: [Deck] T.E.S - The EPIC Storm
I'm not thinking who ichorid is a easy mutchup.
Infernal tutor in SD, for me, is very important because a lot of times I could not do ten spells.
Xantid MD is a personal choice.
I'm considering to play krosan grip in SD...
Mystical tutor main:
- various ritual
- infernal
- wish
- orim
Mystical tutor side:
- spree,also
Re: [Deck] T.E.S - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Aj-capra
I'm not thinking who ichorid is a easy mutchup.
Infernal tutor in SD, for me, is very important because a lot of times I could not do ten spells.
Xantid MD is a personal choice, but I reject it probably.
I'm considering to play krosan grip in SD...
Ichorid is not an easy matchup, but not prevalent enough to Sb against it. And Leyline is better than the Wheel. Against Solidarity, it doesn't matter much, as it doesn't stop the combo and at they end of their combo they will just bounce it. It matters a bit, but both Ichorid and Solidarity aren't that common.
10 spells shouldn't be a big problem, Ponder helps a lot here. You can also go Whish->Whish cause it removes itself and 10 spells isn't always necessary, when you can't get to 10, you can use EtW.
I wouldn't play more than 4 protection Sb, but if your meta is extreme, it's possible. Krosan Grip is possible Sb, I don't think it's very good, but a lot better than Wheel of Sun and Moon.
Mystical isn't good in this deck, but you might need to find out yourself. When you have some experience with Mystical, try Ponder and look if it works better.
Re: [Deck] T.E.S - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
matelml
Ichorid is not an easy matchup, but not prevalent enough to Sb against it. And Leyline is better than the Wheel. Against Solidarity, it doesn't matter much, as it doesn't stop the combo and at they end of their combo they will just bounce it. It matters a bit, but both Ichorid and Solidarity aren't that common.
Ichorid is to slow, you usually have 2-3 Turns to kill them via Tendrils or go for Diminishing Returns, which hurts them a lot.
I played the deck on two of the last three tournaments I took part in, I cut a C.Mox and a Ponder for 2 Manamorphose and I'm very satisfied with this decision till now. They just increase the Stormcount and enables you to cast D.R. out of RoF or something like this. And also they are a Cantrip and are still able to enable a BS or anything like this.
Comments?
Re: [Deck] T.E.S - The EPIC Storm
Ichorid isn't an easy MU but it certainly is favorable. Sometimes, Ichorid goes nuts turn 1, but it's much more prevalent on the TES side. Even though Ichorid doesn't play all that many spells, I'd advice against taking Chants out (if there is anything at all you'd want to board) because Cabal Therapy is a nasty card against you.
Although I have to admit, it rarely has a big impact because my opponent always topdecks a new tutor the next turn 99,6% of the time anyway.
Re: [Deck] T.E.S - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mayk0l
Ichorid isn't an easy MU but it certainly is favorable. Sometimes, Ichorid goes nuts turn 1, but it's much more prevalent on the TES side. Even though Ichorid doesn't play all that many spells, I'd advice against taking Chants out (if there is anything at all you'd want to board) because Cabal Therapy is a nasty card against you.
Although I have to admit, it rarely has a big impact because my opponent always topdecks a new tutor the next turn 99,6% of the time anyway.
I think the matchup is pretty even depending on who wins the die roll. The winner of the die roll is usually favored by a little in this matchup. I don't understand why you think TES is favored. Ichorid can win just as fast as TES. I understand that Ichorid is a lot more inconsistent than TES, but we are talking about combo decks and sometimes they do lose to themselves.
Re: [Deck] T.E.S - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
nickrit2000
I think the matchup is pretty even depending on who wins the die roll. The winner of the die roll is usually favored by a little in this matchup. I don't understand why you think TES is favored. Ichorid can win just as fast as TES. I understand that Ichorid is a lot more inconsistent than TES, but we are talking about combo decks and sometimes they do lose to themselves.
I've now played the match-up six times in sanctioned magic, I've only lost to it once.
Re: [Deck] T.E.S - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
nickrit2000
I think the matchup is pretty even depending on who wins the die roll. The winner of the die roll is usually favored by a little in this matchup. I don't understand why you think TES is favored. Ichorid can win just as fast as TES. I understand that Ichorid is a lot more inconsistent than TES, but we are talking about combo decks and sometimes they do lose to themselves.
No, never!
TES is at least a turn faster, you just have to keep in mind that you shouldn't go for EtW, cause his Tokens are the bigger one. Go for Tendrils of D.Returns and eat him alive, that's it.
I've played both decks this year on a lot of tournaments, I've played one Game with Ichorid against TES, I lost 1:2, I won the one game, cause he just went for EtW during his second turn.
With TES I lost one against Ichorid, and that just 0:2 cause he was lucky (1stturnkill wins. Chalice and 2ndturnkill wins also).
With TES against Icho you'll have nearly every time you want, he's not that fast than you are, and this fact puts him under presure, he have to be fast, you just have to sit there, relax and show him the kill or D.Returns, which takes him out of the game for a few turns in most cases.
Re: [Deck] T.E.S - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bryant Cook
I've now played the match-up six times in sanctioned magic, I've only lost to it once.
Wonderful, would you like a cookie?
Re: [Deck] T.E.S - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ewokslayer
Wonderful, would you like a cookie?
I would, chocolate chip is preferred.
Re: [Deck] T.E.S - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
nickrit2000
I think the matchup is pretty even depending on who wins the die roll. The winner of the die roll is usually favored by a little in this matchup. I don't understand why you think TES is favored. Ichorid can win just as fast as TES. I understand that Ichorid is a lot more inconsistent than TES, but we are talking about combo decks and sometimes they do lose to themselves.
TES is favored vs Ichorid because TES is faster and more consistent than Ichorid, and Ichorid relies on both not muliganing and being on the draw for Cephalid Coliseum. In a blind match up, Ichorid will often choose to draw first and then TES will either get to goldfish or leverage Orim's Chant.
Ichorid just has strategy inferiority to Storm combo, which isn't that unreasonable when you can DDD all day vs U.dec
Re: [Deck] T.E.S - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BreathWeapon
TES is favored vs Ichorid because TES is faster and more consistent than Ichorid, and Ichorid relies on both not muliganing and being on the draw for Cephalid Coliseum. In a blind match up, Ichorid will often choose to draw first and then TES will either get to goldfish or leverage Orim's Chant.
Ichorid just has strategy inferiority to Storm combo, which isn't that unreasonable when you can DDD all day vs U.dec
First of all like I said before, the matchup is spillt pretty evenlly. I believe TES is more consistent out of the 2 decks, but in terms of speed they both have the ability to win turn 1. As far as muligaining goes, they are both combo decks, so if one deck has to mulligan and one doesn't who do you think would have the advantage. When you play combo mullgaining does hurt your deck more than another archetype.
I don't think your last statement is very wise, b/c Ichorid wrecks your hand and then just wins. How is that inferior?
Re: [Deck] T.E.S - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
nickrit2000
First of all like I said before, the matchup is spillt pretty evenlly. I believe TES is more consistent out of the 2 decks, but in terms of speed they both have the ability to win turn 1. As far as muligaining goes, they are both combo decks, so if one deck has to mulligan and one doesn't who do you think would have the advantage. When you play combo mullgaining does hurt your deck more than another archetype.
I don't think your last statement is very wise, b/c Ichorid wrecks your hand and then just wins. How is that inferior?
Cabal Therapy against unknown opp., which card would you take? But of course it wrecks the hand...
Ichorid has to mull more often than TES does for a real good hand, TES is faster, so the guy playin' Ichorid must mull quite more to a good hand.
TES is more consistent and faster, so why should Ichorid be a bad MU.
I don't want to repeat myself several times, so just test or believe me.
Re: [Deck] T.E.S - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
nickrit2000
First of all like I said before, the matchup is spillt pretty evenlly. I believe TES is more consistent out of the 2 decks, but in terms of speed they both have the ability to win turn 1. As far as muligaining goes, they are both combo decks, so if one deck has to mulligan and one doesn't who do you think would have the advantage. When you play combo mullgaining does hurt your deck more than another archetype.
I don't think your last statement is very wise, b/c Ichorid wrecks your hand and then just wins. How is that inferior?
Once more from the top, Ichorid isn't as fast or as consistent as TES (in goldfishing terms, DDD is as consistent as it gets) and that's an observation made from some one who has piloted both decks. What speed Ichorid has depends in part on Cephalid Coliseum, so Ichorid has to draw and has to not mulligan in order to retain a portion of its speed, because it needs Threshold for the Lion's Eye Diamond, Cephalid Coliseum and Deep Analysis chain. Combo vs combo, it's not about who does and doesn't mulligan, but who is free to mulligan into the most aggressive hand possible, and Ichorid is restrained from doing that.
Reading comprehension 4TW, I said Ichorid has strategy inferiority because Ichorid's default strategy is to draw and to keep vs an unknown opponent, and that is what favors TES.
Re: [Deck] T.E.S - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
nickrit2000
First of all like I said before, the matchup is spillt pretty evenlly. I believe TES is more consistent out of the 2 decks, but in terms of speed they both have the ability to win turn 1.
Yes but for Ichorid this is an exception. My regular TES oppponent wins turn 1-3 on average. If he has to be fast, he will be fast. For Ichorid it's a lot harder to go off turn 1 and my average of 'going off' (defined against TES as dredging so much to reliably get one or two Therapies in your graveyard) is turn 2-3. TES is always a turn faster. And Therapy loses a lot of its power when the TES player can BS in response.
For Teh Ichroidz to go off turn 1 you need LED. TES has so many more ways of going off turn 1, it's so dang easy for them to make a lot of mana and tutor for the win.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
nickrit2000
As far as muligaining goes, they are both combo decks, so if one deck has to mulligan and one doesn't who do you think would have the advantage. When you play combo mullgaining does hurt your deck more than another archetype.
Not entirely true. Mulliganing can be very forgiving on Ichorid. You just win if that 4-card hand has the right combination, and odds aren't that bad. TES's mulligans are worse, because you lose a card for your Storm.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
nickrit2000
I don't think your last statement is very wise, b/c Ichorid wrecks your hand and then just wins. How is that inferior?
He was referring to the fact that Storm combo is faster than Dredge combo. Therapy is indeed Ichorid's main (and only) strategy against TES. Sometimes you win simply through Therapies, but it's harder than it sounds.
Truth be that TES is one of the only not-favourable MU's preboard for Ichorid.
Re: [Deck] T.E.S - The EPIC Storm
This question is for Bryant or anyone playing TES in 'Cuse on the 19th. What are the sideboard cards that you are running for the metagame out there?
Any help is greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Chris
Re: [Deck] T.E.S - The EPIC Storm
Given that it's going to be a large event, you can't really specify what is exactly going to be there; I expect the metagame to be varied. However, given this is in Syracuse, you can expect a high number of Landstill and Counterbalances. So if anything, prepare to face a lot of blue.
