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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sdematt
Just because there was one Top 8? I'm sure it will go up because this seems to be the new way of Legacy, but I don't think it should.
-Matt
It didn't make top 8, he needed to win his last match to top 8 and got stomped by rock.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
thecrav
It will be like every other flash in the pan card. It'll be back down to normal value in a week or two. Other than this potential high-tide deck, what value does it have outside of casual?
There's also a tier 2-3 8-post deck that runs them.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
It makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside when I hear Rock stomped High Tide.
-Matt
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dontbiteitholmes
It didn't make top 8, he needed to win his last match to top 8 and got stomped by rock.
It's the real deal. I don't expect it to be tier 1, but it's definitely competitive. It's got multiple wins and it's tough to game against. Extirpate is good against it, if you can get a High Tide in the yard before he goes nuts.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Is it just me, or has the price of power recently rebounded a little bit? I picked up a Mox Sapphire and Mox Ruby a month or so ago each for about 265$ (MP condition). Now I can't seem to find any mox sell for less than 300$ on ebay. Is this a real trend, or did I just get lucky? Time Walks and Ancestral Recalls seem to be selling closer to 400$ on ebay now, too!
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Didn't think that was anything new really. I just sold a set of beta moxes, walk, and twister lately. Walk got 400, moxes went for around 300, sapphire went for 480, and twister went for 200. Little low on twister, but it was played.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sigfig8
Is it just me, or has the price of power recently rebounded a little bit? I picked up a Mox Sapphire and Mox Ruby a month or so ago each for about 265$ (MP condition). Now I can't seem to find any mox sell for less than 300$ on ebay. Is this a real trend, or did I just get lucky? Time Walks and Ancestral Recalls seem to be selling closer to 400$ on ebay now, too!
Just sold a Ruby on MOTL for $260, in MP Condition. I don't think prices are moving very much.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Ok, thanks for the perspective. I'll keep an eye out for good deals on ebay, then. It will all come down to patience. I wonder if power will drop further or if it'll stabilize...gosh I feel like I'm talking about the stock market.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Condition makes a different once Power. Really nice UNL Walk/Recall will get to the 400 mark, but most of the time Recall/Walk is at 325-350.
-Matt
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
death
On the same note, I pulled the trigger on 4x Candelabras at 45-50 last night after the game, stores are now selling them at much higher prices and most are out of stock. It has the same rarity as Moat (but played in multiples) so god forbid and good luck to those still planning to acquire them.
Candelabras are even rarer than that, I'm afraid; Antiquities actually had a much lower print run than Legends. AQ had a print of ~15M, Legends had ~35M, according to Crystalkeep.
http://www.crystalkeep.com/magic/products/legends.php
http://www.crystalkeep.com/magic/pro...ntiquities.php
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Print run isn't the whole story; fewer cards in the set (fewer rares) and smaller packs affect the rarity of the individual rares.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cdr
Print run isn't the whole story; fewer cards in the set (fewer rares) and smaller packs affect the rarity of the individual rares.
Except there were no rares in Arabian Nights, Antiquities, The Dark, Fallen Empires, and Homelands. Only commons and uncommons of varying frequency (C4-C1 for commons, U3-U1 for uncommons). So while Wizards has "retconned" the U1s from those sets into rares, that doesn't change the fact that you could get a pack (the packs listed as containing 2 uncommons and 6 commons for those sets) and pull two U1 "rares" or no U1 "rares."
I personally opened an Arabians pack that had a Library of Alexandria and a Bazaar of Baghdad in it once upon a time (late-90s).
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Well by all means, let's crunch some numbers.
AQ packs had 2 uncommons, and 6 commons. So 1/4 of the cards were uncommons (i.e., from the uncommon sheet).
According to Crystalkeep, the uncommon sheet had 26 U1s, 5 U2s, 28 U3s.
26+10+84 = 120. Candelabra was U1, so there'd be 1 Candelabra per sheet. (It seems like a sheet probably was 11 by 11 = 121, but that's negligible for this calculation. Maybe the last spot was a rules card or something?)
15 million * 1/4 * 1/120 = 31,125 Candelabras printed.
Now, legends. Legends packs were released with the familiar 1 rare, 3 uncommons, 11 commons. So 1/15 of legends cards were rares. 121 rares in the set.
35 million * 1/15 * 1/121 = 19,283 Moats printed.
So I guess there's more Candelabras than Moats after all! The set size is what really threw me, I forgot how big Legends was.
I don't know whether Crystalkeep's numbers factor in Italian legends.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MattH
Well by all means, let's crunch some numbers.
AQ packs had 2 uncommons, and 6 commons. So 1/4 of the cards were uncommons (i.e., from the uncommon sheet).
According to Crystalkeep, the uncommon sheet had 26 U1s, 5 U2s, 28 U3s.
26+10+84 = 120. Candelabra was U1, so there'd be 1 Candelabra per sheet. (It seems like a sheet probably was 11 by 11 = 121, but that's negligible for this calculation. Maybe the last spot was a rules card or something?)
15 million * 1/4 * 1/120 = 31,125 Candelabras printed.
Now, legends. Legends packs were released with the familiar 1 rare, 3 uncommons, 11 commons. So 1/15 of legends cards were rares. 121 rares in the set.
35 million * 1/15 * 1/121 = 19,283 Moats printed.
So I guess there's more Candelabras than Moats after all! The set size is what really threw me, I forgot how big Legends was.
I don't know whether Crystalkeep's numbers factor in Italian legends.
Good crunching, except for one small thing you messed up.
Moat was a U1 in Legends, with 107 U1s per sheet and 7 U2s per sheet. So that's 121 uncommons per sheet. So to redo your math...
35 million * 1/5 * 1/121 = 57,851 Moats printed.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Moat was a rare as far as I knew. I opened enough boxes of Legends to argue that one a little. I packed maybe 6 moats in the entire time I opened packs as compared to dozens of Mana Drains. I'd double check that one. It didn't seem like an uncommon at all.
I could be wrong, but I would be very surprised.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
According to CrystalKeep's info on print runs there were 19,500 of each Legends rare and 31,000 of each Antiquities U1. I don't think this factors in Italian Legends though. I found it interesting that there are actually less copies of each Legends rare in English than there are of each piece of power. I guess it helps explain the huge price tag on Moat and Tabernacle.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
How many UNL rares are there of each? I know there's 3300 A/B copies, but I doubt Moats are rarer than a piece of Power in any edition.
-Matt
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dahcmai
Moat was a rare as far as I knew. I opened enough boxes of Legends to argue that one a little. I packed maybe 6 moats in the entire time I opened packs as compared to dozens of Mana Drains. I'd double check that one. It didn't seem like an uncommon at all.
I could be wrong, but I would be very surprised.
http://www.magiccards.info/lg/en/197.html
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Ca...verseid=159308
Magic Cards lists Moat as a U1.
Gatherer lists Moat as a Rare.
Considering that Wizards has been known to change rarities for whatever reason in Gatherer, I'm not sure which one to trust.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sdematt
How many UNL rares are there of each? I know there's 3300 A/B copies, but I doubt Moats are rarer than a piece of Power in any edition.
-Matt
Again according to CrystalKeep, there are 4300 of each Limited (Alpha+Beta) rare and 18,500 of each Unlimited rare for a total of 22,800 copies of each piece of power which is more than a Legends rare. I guess if Moat is really a U1 then there are more Moats.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
In looking at the document labeled as "fancy pdf" on CrystalKeep's Legends product page it appears that Moat was originally a rare. The pdf appears to denote rarity and has Moat as a rare and the site has the document labeled as from August, 1995 which I would think is from before any WotC changes would have been applied to the rarity.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
I'm pretty sure Moat has always been rare.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
NO!!! its a common, its rarity symbol is black colored YOU NOOBS
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dontbiteitholmes
I'm pretty sure Moat has always been rare.
Yeah...not like Magic Cards to make an error like that. Usually they're pretty spot-on with the rarities. I also found a picture of an uncut Uncommon sheet from Italian Legends - no Moat.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Solaran_X
Yeah...not like Magic Cards to make an error like that. Usually they're pretty spot-on with the rarities. I also found a picture of an uncut Uncommon sheet from Italian Legends - no Moat.
When I was young I used to religiously read every card in every Inquest and if Moat was listed as an uncommon I feel like I would remember that since I never had any problem remembering that Mana Drain was Uncommon.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Remember how you could buy a box of Legends and not get a single Mana Drain because the random sorter would make boxes with double the amount in one and none in another. How horrid that was. I used to watch to see if people got one from a box, then if they did, I would buy out the box. lol
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dahcmai
Remember how you could buy a box of Legends and not get a single Mana Drain because the random sorter would make boxes with double the amount in one and none in another. How horrid that was. I used to watch to see if people got one from a box, then if they did, I would buy out the box. lol
I started in Revised :(
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Solaran_X
Moat is a rare. I've seen an uncut sheet of Legends rares. It's there.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mr.C
Moat is a rare. I've seen an uncut sheet of Legends rares. It's there.
After playing magic for years I'm pretty sure moat is an overpriced common like force of will. Black symbol= common, gold= rare, orange= mythic rare. I traded 4 of my moats for this guys jace the mind sculptor for my landstill deck. Totally ripped him off. If you guys think moat is a rare you need to get your eyes checked...
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
whiteshepherdman
After playing magic for years I'm pretty sure moat is an overpriced common like force of will. Black symbol= common, gold= rare, orange= mythic rare. I traded 4 of my moats for this guys jace the mind sculptor for my landstill deck. Totally ripped him off. If you guys think moat is a rare you need to get your eyes checked...
Someone explain it to the poor guy please...
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
I'm sure he's being sarcastic. Otherwise, we're all quite fortunate: he's an imbecile (watch from 4:10 to ~5:10)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzKmUGbvNAI
Sorry if we're not supposed to link, but if this DID happen, it reminded me of this moment :tongue:
-Matt
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
arebennian
Someone explain it to the poor guy please...
You just got trolled, dawg.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
majikal
You just got trolled, dawg.
^ lolololol ^_^ "gentlemen we are quite fortunate..."
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
It's a great movie if you're into Mel Brooks, and it's all on Youtube.
-Matt
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Bad troll or someone needs to seriously watch more movies. Google it.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Isn't Mel Brooks the dude who created Bugs Bunny///
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
(nameless one)
Isn't Mel Brooks the dude who created Bugs Bunny///
Mel Blanc did the voice. Wikipedia says it's a joint creation from several people. Mel Brooks is never mentioned.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bugs_Bunny
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
I'm doing a trade with someone on MOTL, and they claim that 71.00, the MOTL price of Underground Seas, is incorrect. I disagree. Can anyone shed some light on this?
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OurSerratedDust
I'm doing a trade with someone on MOTL, and they claim that 71.00, the MOTL price of Underground Seas, is incorrect. I disagree. Can anyone shed some light on this?
http://completed.shop.ebay.com/Magic...&_sop=13&_sc=1
I wouldn't trade a Sea for under 70 unless it was played
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OurSerratedDust
I'm doing a trade with someone on MOTL, and they claim that 71.00, the MOTL price of Underground Seas, is incorrect. I disagree. Can anyone shed some light on this?
Well MOTL lists the price of a revised sea at $71.02 but that price is an aggregate of the 179 raw prices their basing their valuation on. The average is closer to $80. Apathy house on the other hand which bases it price on eBay lists seas at $68.15 and I bet if you went to half a dozen other online stores you could find half a dozen other prices for the same card at the same condition.
IMO the problem with price aggregators like this is the deviation caused by crazy outliers like the guy who paid $350 for an altered sea or the one who picked up a heavily dog eaten one for $5. Its the internet and weird stuff happens but there’s a good chance the price aggregator only sees the label of the card that was sold not the extenuating circumstances. If there’s a huge spike/drop in demand & a lot of existing samples the new sale price takes time to reflect into the averages etc.
Short version of the story no price guide is perfect, they are all just taking an educated guess so there’s bound to be some drift. That’s why motl (which is normally fairly good) shows you what they consider the price, average, standard deviation, change rate and sample size etc
EDIT: I also wouldnt trade my seas for less then $80 played or not (and Id even want a little more then that for the minty ones)
