The great thing about this card is it triggers off of opponents counterspells and brainstorms on your turn, so it's a bit of a defence grid, i think that makes it worth trying out at least. Seems less fragile than Guttersnipe.
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The great thing about this card is it triggers off of opponents counterspells and brainstorms on your turn, so it's a bit of a defence grid, i think that makes it worth trying out at least. Seems less fragile than Guttersnipe.
excellent point, i missed that.
it's probably best as a sb card vs decks like miracles. (where they have a ton of countermagic. i'd much rather run this over defense grid.)
(edit, also 100k views on the thread in less than a year. that's pretty sweet!)
I'll be grabbing a set of these, at least for testing purposes. I think it's probably a sideboard option, similar to Guttersnipe. I like that it's resilient to removal, even abrupt decay, but I don't like that it's 4 mana and *not* red for Ruby Medallion. We just have to decide if the Helms are justified or if they offset the gain by providing a mana boost for opponents.
https://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com...2275453751.png
So this thing is just absurd right?
Oh yeah, I think this is it. This might just be the boost we needed. It's as if someone at WotC thought "that mono red storm deck looks pretty cool, let's throw them a bone."
Right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Glass House
This is a pyromancers Ascension that you don't need to work hard at to get on line and can be fetched with Burning Wish.
It turns Manamorphose and Probe into completely absurd cards as well.
If you cast a second one in a turn all your spells are copied x3 times.
The big question is if you splash black or not or stick to mono red.
I think this fundamentally changes this deck in a significant way, it also lets you avoid graveyard hate if you need too.
Might not play well with LED but that might be ok.
Pretty sure this is exactly what the deck needed. Doubling draw triggers from GitProbe, double mana/draw from Manamorphose, getting 2 copies of Hazoret's Undying fury...this deck could already combo off with a low threshold, this makes it even easier.Quote:
Originally Posted by ReAnimator
Welcome to the new age of Ruby Storm boys. Get your sets now!
EDIT: This card single-handedly makes Pyro Ascension obsolete btw...
Jesus.Fucking.Christ. I didn't even realize it was a sorcery for Burning Wish. I can answer your black splash question: completely unnecessary at this point. There are now 3 complete engines to make the deck work: Hazoret's Undying Fury, Past in Flames, and now this. Who needs Brainstorm when you have up to 12 copies of your key engine card, making it likely you'll get one in your opener a high percentage of the time? No more durdles, lets get right to t2 loops that make judges cry.Quote:
Originally Posted by ReAnimator
I was just coming here to post that, glad to see I was beaten to the punch. This Is awesome and I can't wait to see Act on Impulse doubled.Quote:
Originally Posted by ReAnimator
Though upon reading it there is a potential issue. It doubles opponents spells as well. Brainstorm into force or dear god Flusterstorm could be a headache, or potentially worth it.
First guess? Make enough room to try them main, and then depending on how that goes find out if it's a wish only card, a 2/4 of, or for a different deck entirely. Ur storm with epic experiment? Etc.
That artifact is pretty nifty too.
OOH I'm definitely taking this deck for a whirl again with these hot new cards.
Also going to try Brain Freeze. Not sure why I didn't think of it before, but with decent mana it basically digs for Past In Flames real hard. Can also be a win condition mixed in with some Reforges.
edit- I sold off my LEDS though. I am on poor man's version.
Though with that new Tower you WANT spells not rocks.
I may be wrong, but I don't think any splash is needed for this deck anymore. How are we *not* getting absurd storm counts and finishing with Grapeshot easily?Quote:
Originally Posted by compacta_d
Oh and BTW, Hazoret's can flip this and cast it as well...
EDIT: Preordered my set from SCG. I don't normally do this, but damn...
In my list it will take the place of some number of Empty the Warrens, and definitely x1 in the sideboard FOR SURE.Quote:
Originally Posted by Knighthawk
I like both of these for this deck, just gotta make em fit.
Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk
I still think Tendrils is best wincon.
Deck can fizzle with grapeshot. Not likely but I've had it happen. I've also had it happen where grapeshot got me out of a bind Tendrils would NOT have. New Tower is definitely an amazing 4 drop (ahem 2-3 drop) that can turn a probe into an Urza's Rage.
I think a single U mana is easy enough to generate and can add consistency with Past in Flames. Dig for PIF, then storm out mill opponent. Wheel's help.
Agreed, I wasn't considering Tendrils a black splash. I now see you don't see Freeze as a blue splash really, either. I've been posting like crazy, this new card has my blood up.Quote:
Originally Posted by compacta_d
I just mean we don't need to fool around with Dark Petition or other non-win-condition off-color cards. Win conditions that Manamorphose and Lotus Petal facilitate are fine (Tendrils, Brain Freeze, etc.) but we have plenty of engines to make the deck run now.
I think Overmaster is worth revisiting, because we really want Bonus Round to resolve.
Worth testing for sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Glass House
Desperate Ritual's stock goes way up with Bonus Round as well, if you can splice it, you get 12 mana, which is just nuts.
Could be that a more ritual based version with less Petals and LED's is the correct way to go.
If they have a counter they have to counter the Bonus Round, if you've already resolved it, their counter counters the two copies you already made, so it won't be enough to really hinder you at all. That's my gut feeling anyway. It's essentially the same, instead of one counter for one threat, you have 2 counters for 2 threats so the math isn't really different.Quote:
Originally Posted by Knighthawk
i think the new cards can be tested. not sure if it makes ascension obsolete per say. you still need to cast this card first, and then resolve a mana spell immediately after. vs counter magic this is a lot of mana invested in for the first spell.
if i'm testing the new cards it would be something like this:
// 60 Maindeck
// 19 Artifact
4 Ruby Medallion
4 Lotus Petal
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Sentinel Tower
3 Helm of Awakening
// 8 Instant
4 Seething Song
4 Manamorphose
// 14 Land
10 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
// 19 Sorcery
2 Past in Flames
4 Rite of Flame
4 Act on Impulse
4 Burning Wish
4 Gitaxian Probe
1 Gamble
// 15 Sideboard
// 2 Artifact
SB: 2 Silent Gravestone
// 2 Instant
SB: 1 Abrade
// 12 Sorcery
SB: 1 Past in Flames
SB: 1 Bonus Round
SB: 1 Reforge the Soul
SB: 1 Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 Grapeshot
SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 By Force
SB: 1 Cave-In
SB: 1 Pyroclasm
SB: 1 Shattering Spree
SB: 1 Gamble
SB: 1 Dark Petition
you could also consider running 1 reiterate as it combos with a rock out for
RR3 + casting cost of seething song with a rock out (1R). this allows you to cast seething song, copy it while it's on the stack, resolve the reiterate with buyback, and copy the seething song over and over again. this will net you 0 mana overall, but will kill with this card out or something like guttersnipe. (it's nothing new, but it's fun)
if i'm looking to copy my spells, i'm pretty sure this new spell can fit as a wish target, but i'm not sure it makes it to the main deck.
i suppose you can run some desperate rituals over the LED's, but i like being able to play a little more risky with AoI. this allows me to cast it blind and hope to hit petals/led's instead of only having petals as an out for an initial mana source.
anyway. really excited there's some new things to test and i hope other people can put in some effort, as i'm still finding it difficult to find time to play.
as an aside the deck has still come a long way!
here's my original notes from last june:
4 rite of flame
4 desperate ritual
4 seething song
2 pyretic ritual
4 manamorphose
4 ruby medallion
4 hazoret's undying fury
4 pyromancer ascension
3 past in flames
4 grapeshot
3 lightning bolt
2 reforge the soul
4 lotus petal
14 lands
I agree. Like all storm decks, this one is based on critical mass. So rather than have protection, we can just jam engines until one resolves...or we can get our cantrip count higher (especially when Overmaster draws us 2+ cards with Bonus Round.) I really want to jam a full set of Overmaster, and I probably will sacrifice slots to Empty the Warrens to make it work. I might even just go down to 1x Warrens in the sideboard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Glass House
Rough list:
4x Rite of Flame
3x Desperate Ritual
4x Seething Song
4x Ruby Medallion
1x Helm of Awakening
4x Act on Impulse
4x Gitaxian Probe
4x Manamorphose
2x Overmaster
4x Burning Wish
3x Past in Flames
2x Bonus Round
3x Hazoret's Undying Fury
4x Crystal Vein
10x Mountain
Sideboard
1x Tendrils of Agony
1x Empty the Warrens
1x Grapeshot
1x Reforge the Soul
1x Bonus Round
1x Pyroclasm
1x By Force
1x Cave-In
3x Guttersnipe
2x Scab-Clan Berserker
2x Pyroblast
I think the potential for HUF to get out of hand is worth the 3 copies. Maybe only 2, but I've been meaning to test more copies lately anyways. I can see whiffing a little on 4 cards from HUF, but I can't see that happening too often with 8 free spells. Imagine flipping a Bonus Round with HUF, stacking it on top, and getting double on the other 3 potential spells.
I just want to jam engines, and for that reason I think only 2 Overmaster is needed. This deck is pure gas, everything is either mana, draw, or a kill condition.
Imagine flipping a Bonus Round with HUF, stacking it on top, and getting double on the other 3 potential spells.
this doesn't work. the other 3 spells would need to be put on the stack after the bonus round resolves. they are all going on the stack at the same time (in an order you prefer).
Not that this matters in practice because if you resolve a Bonus Round you've pretty much already won, but for the sake of amusement how many copies do you get for each subsequent Bonus Round? 1 BR = 1 copy; 2 BR = 3 copies?; 3 BR = 7 copies?; 4 BR = 15 copies?
i think it's best to map out how you think this card will actually play out. i'm not sure it's so great! (also imagine playing vs somebody, not just a goldfish).
Sure, we have to see it in real games, but on my few goldfishes so far it's been obscene.
can you go through some lines of play for me? it seems every line almost requires a seething song to start.
As ReAnimator pointed out, Desperate Ritual becomes really valuable. I'm running 3 rituals, no LED's.
You can go T1 Ancient Tomb -> Medallion, T2 Mountain -> Desperate Ritual -> Bonus Round -> Manamorphose. draw 2 and gain 4 mana and go on from there.
that's a decent line. best of luck. i'm happy with whatever configuration of this deck works.
(i'll test with it too, it could be fun if nothing else)
if i test it, it will be something like this:
// 60 Maindeck
// 11 Artifact
4 Ruby Medallion
4 Lotus Petal
3 Helm of Awakening
// 12 Instant
4 Seething Song
4 Manamorphose
4 Desperate Ritual
// 14 Land
10 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
// 23 Sorcery
2 Past in Flames
4 Rite of Flame
4 Act on Impulse
4 Burning Wish
2 Hazoret’s Undying Fury
4 Gitaxian Probe
3 Bonus Round
// 15 Sideboard
// 2 Artifact
SB: 2 Silent Gravestone
// 1 Instant
SB: 1 Abrade
// 12 Sorcery
SB: 1 Past in Flames
SB: 1 Bonus Round
SB: 1 Reforge the Soul
SB: 1 Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 Grapeshot
SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 By Force
SB: 1 Cave-In
SB: 1 Pyroclasm
SB: 1 Shattering Spree
SB: 1 Gamble
SB: 1 Dark Petition
@Mistercakes
That list is essentially exactly what i was thinking in my head.
I'm going to try to build it up tonight or tomorrow and see how it goes.
I did some gold fishing. Bonus round really rewards you for playing cantrips, so i put mistercakes list from above, but with -2 Hazoret's Fury +2 Overmaster together.
I'm not sure that's enough, to go off with it properly you really need a bunch of cantrips or a PIF in the sequence to get double off of them. Might try Faithless again, or something else like Cathartic Reunion in there, something to get deeper.
I was able to go off just with Bonus Round a couple of times, when i had a morphose and probe.
I still like pyromancer ascension since that build runs 4 bolts and then you don't need to run Helm, which is not ideal especially when including LED in the list.
maybe we can test this one:
https://cdn1.mtggoldfish.com/images/...5BBBD%255D.jpg
Seems pretty strong!
EDIT: i see now that card was found yet xD
another card to test is Mana Flare, 'cause i think it's the same of helm, but better storming.
sb isn't optimal yet.
this is what i have been happy goldfishing with so far:
// 60 Maindeck
// 10 Artifact
4 Ruby Medallion
4 Lotus Petal
3 Helm of Awakening
// 12 Instant
4 Seething Song
4 Manamorphose
4 Desperate Ritual
// 14 Land
10 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
// 24 Sorcery
2 Past in Flames
4 Rite of Flame
4 Act on Impulse
4 Burning Wish
4 Gitaxian Probe
3 Bonus Round
2 Faithless Looting
// 15 Sideboard
// 2 Instant
SB: 2 Abrade
// 13 Sorcery
SB: 1 Past in Flames
SB: 1 Reforge the Soul
SB: 1 Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 Grapeshot
SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 By Force
SB: 1 Cave-In
SB: 1 Pyroclasm
SB: 1 Shattering Spree
SB: 1 Gamble
SB: 1 Dark Petition
SB: 1 Bonus Round
SB: 1 Banefire
also am considering a singleton gamble in the main over a faithless.
(banefire is pretty interesting, if you have a copy you only need to do it for 10, which isn't really so hard. it's probably overkill but it does get around glacial chasm for red and it will stop them if somehow they are able to counter your win con. it will very likely get cut, but putting it out there. could also very be a hazoret's in the sb.)
for an LED build i'd go with this:
// 60 Maindeck
// 12 Artifact
4 Ruby Medallion
4 Lotus Petal
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
// 12 Instant
4 Seething Song
4 Manamorphose
4 Desperate Ritual
// 14 Land
10 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
// 22 Sorcery
1 Past in Flames
1 Empty the Warrens
4 Rite of Flame
4 Act on Impulse
4 Burning Wish
3 Gitaxian Probe
3 Bonus Round
1 Faithless Looting
1 Gamble
// 15 Sideboard
// 15 Sorcery
SB: 1 Past in Flames
SB: 1 Reforge the Soul
SB: 1 Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 Grapeshot
SB: 1 Fiery Gambit
SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 By Force
SB: 1 Cave-In
SB: 1 Pyroclasm
SB: 1 Shattering Spree
SB: 1 Gamble
SB: 1 Dark Petition
SB: 1 Bonus Round
SB: 1 Banefire
SB: 1 Gitaxian Probe
it's possible cutting 1 pyroclasm or banefire could make sense to squeeze in a hull breach.
also to answer this:
Not that this matters in practice because if you resolve a Bonus Round you've pretty much already won, but for the sake of amusement how many copies do you get for each subsequent Bonus Round? 1 BR = 1 copy; 2 BR = 3 copies?; 3 BR = 7 copies?; 4 BR = 15 copies?
it's the same as a binary sequence, but the number of copies will be one less that value.
1,2,4,8,16,32,64,128,256,512
you cast the first one and you get:
1 copy
3 copies
7 copies
15 copies
31 copies
63 copies
127 copies
255 copies
(after that you can't flash any more back).
You can go Deeper with Shreds of Sanity and Pull From Eternity
My turn to correct: I don't think x values carry over when copied, ie banefire for 10 would get copied but you would need to sink x in again. I think this is how x spells work when copied.Quote:
Originally Posted by mistercakes
It does. Ruling from Twincast.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Safety
1/10/2009 If the spell Twincast copies has an X whose value was determined as it was cast (like Earthquake does), the copy has the same value of X.
If you decide to play 3x Bonus Round in your deck, you should maximize spells that are good/cheap to cast after you resolve a Bonus Round.
4x Manamorphose
4x Gitaxian Probe
3-4x Faithless Looting
And you should stay away from stuff that costs a lot of mana, that you want to cast after Bonus Round, like Act on Impulse and Hazoret’s Undying Fury.
You would need to cast a ritual > Bonus Round > Act on Impulse > ritual.
And once your Burning Wishs start getting doubled, you can get a card draw spell and a finisher with a single wish.
Yes, in that case, suppose the opponent has just one FOW, they can let bonus round resolves and counter the two copies of the real pay off card?Quote:
Originally Posted by ReAnimator
Though opponent should counter bonus round anyway in the first place
What's important here is that it's another must counter kind of spell. This is the method the deck tries to rely on, brute forcing through instead of using minimal business spells with discard and cantrips.
1 Cathartic Reunion
Should probably play one of these in the SB. When you cast a doubled Burning Wish, you can get Past in Flames and Cathartic Reunion. Play Cathartic Reunion discarding PiF and something else, draw 6 and have PiF on the graveyard.
Totally agree; that's why I like the fact that this deck has so many engine cards it can rely on.Quote:
Originally Posted by mistercakes
If you want to dig the most you should either consider faithless looting, or goblin lore/control of the court.Quote:
Originally Posted by alderon666
Cathartic reunion requires you to discard 2, and you may not have this.