Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)
Burn is usually a combination of 2-3 of the following when you get a win:
* Hymn/Liliana -> these munch 3-6 hp off of their clock. Burn draws about 2 damage per turn when you average it's lands in, meaning that a hymn or Lili can buy you as much as 3 turns by themselves.
* DRS activations [each one is 2/3rds of a card, or about a turn extra you get to live by the above logic]
* Jitte/SoLaS/BSK, depending what you run. Jitte is an easy win if it actually lands/equips on T3; which you can do with a DRS->SFM draw. [each swing is about two time walks]
and a trick this deck doesn't usually get to do is plow a fat-dude on your own side. That said, people could run Tombstalker/Gurmag in the side against burn, since DC is terrible. note: thoughtseize is also usually bad, but is doable so you can keep Sulfuric or Eidolon off the board.
I tried ETutor + 1x Warmth and was happy enough with it. Thalia's, Canonists, and other tools to slow them down are fine too. You can go deep with Aegis of the Gods [also tutorable] and use it to force them to burn dudes.
Sculler is OK, if you take a Searing effect with Sculler, they will often have to use a real burn effect on him, buying you time/hp.
Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)
Hi everyone,
I have never played Deadguy Ale, and very rarely played against it, but came across it and noticed it's one of the few fair decks that actually play Chrome Mox.
I have a few questions about that particular card, I'm looking to try it out in Punishing Jund. Apologies my knowledge of DGA is very limited so some of these questions may appear to be stupid.
Whats the usual/maximum number this card is played? Is it actually the norm or the exception to run it?
Why does this deck play it?
When do you side it out?
Those who have extensively played with it, how often has the card disadvantage mattered? What mechanisms do you have to recoup the card loss?
Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)
hi there Confidants,
i didn't played Deadguy yet, but it's a deck i'm looking at and would like to try in the future
i'm a Goblin player playing 3x Chrome Mox, so i have some experience with the card
Quote:
Whats the usual/maximum number this card is played? Is it actually the norm or the exception to run it?
in fair decks i believe you can play up to 3 copies, depending on how efficiently you can cover the card loss over the game and how much acceleration you need. probably in Deadguy i would never play more than 2x
i don't think it's a necessary card in fair decks, but the format is fast atm and acceleration could help to fight properly. i think DRS would be probably better here or in your deck
Quote:
What mechanisms do you have to recoup the card loss?
Confidant and SFM since they generate CA. in your list punishing fire+ groove achieve the same point
a good inclusion in Chrome Mox-heavy lists could be Lingering Souls since you generate 4 pieces out of one single card
Quote:
Those who have extensively played with it, how often has the card disadvantage mattered?
when you are forced to mulligan lower than 6 and you are on the play could be hard.
it also matter when you cannot generate CA during the game (Bob being removed quickly and no SFM fetching)
Revoker could be annoying too, since he can target the Mox and you loose 2 cards and a mana source at the same time. Hymn to Turach + Wasteland, anyone?
Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jraniga
I have a few questions about that particular card, I'm looking to try it out in Punishing Jund. Apologies my knowledge of DGA is very limited so some of these questions may appear to be stupid.
Just my 2 cents, I don't think that Chrome Mox is the type of card that Jund wants to play. Throwing away a card for acceleration doesn't seem like something Jund wants to be doing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jraniga
Whats the usual/maximum number this card is played? Is it actually the norm or the exception to run it?
Why does this deck play it?
Anywhere from 0-3 seems right now that DRS is a card. It used to be the norm since this deck really thrives on out tempoing the opponent early game and then taking over the midgame. I think DRS accomplishes the same thing without giving up the disadvantage, I still like having the opportunity to just blow my opponent out via turn 1 SFM/Confidant/Hymn/Double DRS/Etc so I run 2.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jraniga
When do you side it out?
Never. Chome mox is basically a land drop, any matchup where you feel you can cut land is where you could potentially cut a few.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jraniga
Those who have extensively played with it, how often has the card disadvantage mattered? What mechanisms do you have to recoup the card loss?
menph covered this. It sucks when you have to mulligan down and you keep a hand with a chrome mox (which is basically another free mulligan). Generally your chrome mox plays are recovering some CA. Turn 1 Hymn is basically a 3 for 2, Bob draws cards if he survives, SFM replaces herself, any hatebear played is a hatebear played earlier than the curve and you have the potential to removal + wasteland your opponent's first turn play.
Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)
Quote:
Just my 2 cents, I don't think that Chrome Mox is the type of card that Jund wants to play. Throwing away a card for acceleration doesn't seem like something Jund wants to be doing.
also not the best target to hit with cascade i guess
Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
menph
hi there Confidants,
i didn't played Deadguy yet, but it's a deck i'm looking at and would like to try in the future
i'm a Goblin player playing 3x Chrome Mox, so i have some experience with the card
in fair decks i believe you can play up to 3 copies, depending on how efficiently you can cover the card loss over the game and how much acceleration you need. probably in Deadguy i would never play more than 2x
i don't think it's a necessary card in fair decks, but the format is fast atm and acceleration could help to fight properly. i think DRS would be probably better here or in your deck
Confidant and SFM since they generate CA. in your list punishing fire+ groove achieve the same point
a good inclusion in Chrome Mox-heavy lists could be Lingering Souls since you generate 4 pieces out of one single card
when you are forced to mulligan lower than 6 and you are on the play could be hard.
it also matter when you cannot generate CA during the game (Bob being removed quickly and no SFM fetching)
Revoker could be annoying too, since he can target the Mox and you loose 2 cards and a mana source at the same time. Hymn to Turach + Wasteland, anyone?
I do run DRS in jund, but my biggest issue with the deck is that apart from DRS it doesn't have any other proactive plays on turn 1, and with the format being pretty fast right now I wanted to experiment with other options.
I run quite a bit of CA in jund, bob, hymn, punishing fires, BBE, 2 sylvan library and 2 kolaghans command main. While mox isn't a good cascade I think with two copies it's a risk worth taking. I've just played 4 rounds with 3 moxes in jund and wanted to optimise the list for further testing.
With the other fair decks that are popular now, Bug delver and grixis delver, being decent matchups for jund I thought running a bit of acceleration to help with the other decks might be worthwhile.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CptHaddock
Just my 2 cents, I don't think that Chrome Mox is the type of card that Jund wants to play. Throwing away a card for acceleration doesn't seem like something Jund wants to be doing.
Anywhere from 0-3 seems right now that DRS is a card. It used to be the norm since this deck really thrives on out tempoing the opponent early game and then taking over the midgame. I think DRS accomplishes the same thing without giving up the disadvantage, I still like having the opportunity to just blow my opponent out via turn 1 SFM/Confidant/Hymn/Double DRS/Etc so I run 2.
Never. Chome mox is basically a land drop, any matchup where you feel you can cut land is where you could potentially cut a few.
menph covered this. It sucks when you have to mulligan down and you keep a hand with a chrome mox (which is basically another free mulligan). Generally your chrome mox plays are recovering some CA. Turn 1 Hymn is basically a 3 for 2, Bob draws cards if he survives, SFM replaces herself, any hatebear played is a hatebear played earlier than the curve and you have the potential to removal + wasteland your opponent's first turn play.
Thanks for your comments. It seems like jund also has similar potential to gain early tempo with bob, library, hymn, dbl DRS etc, only thing missing is SFM. Also the ability to more consistently cast turn 2 lili or turn 3 BBE seems useful in Jund.
Again it's just an idea I want to test for Jund, it could be completely wrong but I wanted to hear from people who have experience with the card in fair decks. I will continue my testing in the coming weeks and decide whether it's worth pursuing for Vegas.
Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)
I've been watching Hoog's streams on YouTube and he has a ton of questionable choices. I took some notes lol. I asked him about the DRS on twitter and he basically said what Ganfar said. I think the most questionable choice he makes is the SFM package. He has Jitte and Batterskull (sometimes 2 but only 1 main deck). No Sword at all (which someone mentioned the unfortunate run ins with TNN). Yet he always keeps 4 SFM in the main deck. I've seen him play a 1/2 for 2CMC a few times and it seemed brutal. Also not having DRS lost him a few games. Especially to Goblins which DRS would have hosed the Lackey. He tends to see a lot of Storm, Delver decks and Sneak/Show which I think Shaman would help in all of those match ups. He also goes heavy on the planeswalkers. He started out with Lili of the Veil and New Gideon but in the more recent streams I've seen Gideon AoZ, Lili Last Hope and Kaya. I really liked the way Kaya was playing out. Also Shambling Vent made an appearance which did very well for him. I have still yet to see him drop a Recruiter of the Guard.
Anyone have any experience with some of these card choices? What works and what doesn't? I don't play Magic Online so are his card choices specific to the online meta?
Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DeadguyHugh
I've been watching Hoog's streams on YouTube and he has a ton of questionable choices. I took some notes lol. I asked him about the DRS on twitter and he basically said what Ganfar said. I think the most questionable choice he makes is the SFM package. He has Jitte and Batterskull (sometimes 2 but only 1 main deck). No Sword at all (which someone mentioned the unfortunate run ins with TNN). Yet he always keeps 4 SFM in the main deck. I've seen him play a 1/2 for 2CMC a few times and it seemed brutal. Also not having DRS lost him a few games. Especially to Goblins which DRS would have hosed the Lackey. He tends to see a lot of Storm, Delver decks and Sneak/Show which I think Shaman would help in all of those match ups. He also goes heavy on the planeswalkers. He started out with Lili of the Veil and New Gideon but in the more recent streams I've seen Gideon AoZ, Lili Last Hope and Kaya. I really liked the way Kaya was playing out. Also Shambling Vent made an appearance which did very well for him. I have still yet to see him drop a Recruiter of the Guard.
Anyone have any experience with some of these card choices? What works and what doesn't? I don't play Magic Online so are his card choices specific to the online meta?
Yeah the newer versions of his list are kind of questionable although I think that summarizes DGA as an archetype :tongue:. The weird thing to me is that he isn't running any mana acceleration when the deck's sweet spot is 2 and he's trying to curve out to 4 cmc walkers.
Haven't tried Kaya but she looked like she is okay in the midrange mirrors. Lili is solid against D&T, Elves and to a lesser degree pyromancer and the tokens that he makes. I don't like the new Gideon, he's good against storm since game 1 is usually a free win if you land him and make an emblem and postboard he's basically another hatebear that only gets removed by bounce or decay. I don't like him in any other matchup, I guess he buys you 3 life against a delver opponent. I've been thinking about running recruiter for some silver bullets but I don't think that is great without aether vial.
I've encountered a good smattering of things on MTGO but for the most part it's a bunch of delver decks (grixis > bug > ur), elves, storm and show and tell.
Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CptHaddock
Yeah the newer versions of his list are kind of questionable although I think that summarizes DGA as an archetype :tongue:. The weird thing to me is that he isn't running any mana acceleration when the deck's sweet spot is 2 and he's trying to curve out to 4 cmc walkers.
Haven't tried Kaya but she looked like she is okay in the midrange mirrors. Lili is solid against D&T, Elves and to a lesser degree pyromancer and the tokens that he makes. I don't like the new Gideon, he's good against storm since game 1 is usually a free win if you land him and make an emblem and postboard he's basically another hatebear that only gets removed by bounce or decay. I don't like him in any other matchup, I guess he buys you 3 life against a delver opponent. I've been thinking about running recruiter for some silver bullets but I don't think that is great without aether vial.
I've encountered a good smattering of things on MTGO but for the most part it's a bunch of delver decks (grixis > bug > ur), elves, storm and show and tell.
Lili the Last Hope seems cool because we really don't have anyway to get our threats back. One way I think our deck can improve is by manipulating the GY with a delve spell or something. I mean, we do have DRS but I feel like we could do a little more.
I have a couple copies of Recruiter and I find it interesting in this deck. I run it in my D&T deck for the insane value. What silver bullets would you run in this deck? Prelate seems to go hand in hand. Revoker is a solid post board dude but anything main deck? Kambal seems to be a popular choice too. I love Recruiter but I don't know if we should be running her. I think I would rather run E-Tutor and have a package for that in the SB. Could even help manipulatr the damage that Bob does.
Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DeadguyHugh
Lili the Last Hope seems cool because we really don't have anyway to get our threats back. One way I think our deck can improve is by manipulating the GY with a delve spell or something. I mean, we do have DRS but I feel like we could do a little more.
Last Hope has a really good ultimate that can win games. Just +1 every turn and you will soon get a horde of zombie.
Jeff has removed Lingering Souls from his deck. That is one of the main reason I start playing this deck lol. He didn't like because deathrite can exile it. Sure, but it force the other player to use deathrite that turn. The oppment can't get extra mana from deathrite that turn and have to think of a new plan.
Sure it sucks that lingering souls get exile but can still meds up for the oppment. Two bodys to carry jitte that you don't care dies is good to
Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DeadguyHugh
Lili the Last Hope seems cool because we really don't have anyway to get our threats back. One way I think our deck can improve is by manipulating the GY with a delve spell or something. I mean, we do have DRS but I feel like we could do a little more.
I have a couple copies of Recruiter and I find it interesting in this deck. I run it in my D&T deck for the insane value. What silver bullets would you run in this deck? Prelate seems to go hand in hand. Revoker is a solid post board dude but anything main deck? Kambal seems to be a popular choice too. I love Recruiter but I don't know if we should be running her. I think I would rather run E-Tutor and have a package for that in the SB. Could even help manipulatr the damage that Bob does.
I was thinking recruiter for sideboard cards mostly e.g. canonist, revoker, containment priest, teeg but I think that is just too slow. She unfortunately can't get Kambal. Jeff posted his newest list and it looks heavily geared towards beating delver decks.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DAcsXYwWAAAybJY.png:large
Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CptHaddock
I was thinking recruiter for sideboard cards mostly e.g. canonist, revoker, containment priest, teeg but I think that is just too slow. She unfortunately can't get Kambal. Jeff posted his newest list and it looks heavily geared towards beating delver decks.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DAcsXYwWAAAybJY.png:large
1 Brutality in main. I like that card but I don't want ot get Daze'ed whwn I discard another card when I cast it.
I still miss Lingering Souls in his deck. Deathrite could help him ramp in to his planeswalkers.
What do you guys think of the second Batterskull in SB? He seems to love it but I am not so hype about myself. Maybe I should try it out but I just got rid of my second Batterskull.
Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DeadguyHugh
One way I think our deck can improve is by manipulating the GY with a delve spell or something. I mean, we do have DRS but I feel like we could do a little more.
The deck has always been lacking in the "beater" department. Just make 1-2 "beater" slots Tombstalker and call it a day. If you have color screw issues, go to Gurmag *maybe*; but I really have come around to Flying being a difference maker.
Another way to go about it is to be weird and run some Relic of Progenitus. Your DRS will be turned on most of the time anyway, and you can hose grave-based opponents. This has been a tried and true "I don't use the grave and I need to figure out 2 card slots" way to go for a long time. We've seen it in early iterations of Miracles, newer iterations, a newer iteration of Painter, etc. It probably never feels good to put those in the main, but people do it to success so maybe it's worth the experiment to hose other graves if you don't need your own. Keeping Mags, Stalkers, Goyfs, and KotRs in check is fine too.
Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)
I've always been a fan of a stalker. I mean, if you flip it off Bob then fuck it.
Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Megadeus
I've always been a fan of a stalker. I mean, if you flip it off Bob then fuck it.
I keep forgetting about Bob when I'm in here! bah!
Jotun Grunt!?
....actually.. :confused:
Hm..
Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
tescrin
I keep forgetting about Bob when I'm in here! bah!
Jotun Grunt!?
....actually.. :confused:
Hm..
I've never personally played the grunt, but he seems pretty eh. He really can't be a turn 2 play sadly. Maybe he's good enough but idk. I think I'd rather a delve guy. I've played stalker with Bob. It's fine. Odds are low you flip him, and with DRS and jitte and BSkull you've got a non zero amount of life gain
Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)
If you want a beater you have Mirran Crusader.
He with a Jitte ends games really fast.
Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)
Hoogland was featured in round 7 of the recent SCG Louisville Open multi-format team event.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/146845778
Would DRS improve the lands match up on balance? The commentary said Jeff think's it's an auto-lose. The benefits of being basic-heavy in his pure b/w list show up in this set but DRS attacking the opposing graveyard as well as having a higher density of good turn one plays in general (particularly with no chrome mox) outweighs, I think.
Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Zauzich
Hoogland was featured in round 7 of the recent SCG Louisville Open multi-format team event.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/146845778
Would DRS improve the lands match up on balance? The commentary said Jeff think's it's an auto-loose. The benefits of being basic-heavy in his pure b/w list show up in this set but DRS attacking the opposing graveyard as well as having a higher density of good turn one plays in general (particularly with no chrome mox) outweighs, I think.
Deathrite have save me many times against Lands match up. If it comes in early it can stop the land player a lot.
Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Zauzich
Hoogland was featured in round 7 of the recent SCG Louisville Open multi-format team event.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/146845778
Would DRS improve the lands match up on balance? The commentary said Jeff think's it's an auto-lose. The benefits of being basic-heavy in his pure b/w list show up in this set but DRS attacking the opposing graveyard as well as having a higher density of good turn one plays in general (particularly with no chrome mox) outweighs, I think.
Yes without a doubt. I'm very surprised that Jeff isn't running Absolute Law for the punishing fire matchups since his list doesn't have many ways to interact with that card outside of just lose to it.
Imo the matchup isn't that bad, if the game goes super late it's very hard to win but there are a significant amount of tools that we have access to postboard that deal with the matchup. Also vindicate is great as wasteland 5-6.
