Miracle Control

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Originally Posted by drocker23

TL;DR So which do we play? Blood Moon, Back to Basics, or From the Ashes? Each have their strengths and weaknesses. Blood Moon shut off fetches but can be a complete game ender against some decks. Back to Basics is more manageable, is still capable of ending the game, but forces you to make your mana base worse by playing Basic Mountain or having to waste a sideboard slot (if you play only 20 lands maindeck) for it. If you play Basic Mountain, how many Volcanic Island do you play along side of it? I've heard you want 3 red mana sources in your 75. Is that true?

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They're all pretty solid. The important thing is they all fuck Eldrazi.

http://i.imgur.com/XxFkf2k.gif

I've heard/read that Back to Basics is the strongest option vs Eldrazi. not sure if it's better or worse than Blood Moon in other matchups. But the entire reason Back to Basics is even in the deck to begin with is because of Eldrazi.

The choice of specific "Land Hate" is a contentious issue. What I believe is: If your Miracles list is designed to durdle like with Joe's build or a strict Ponder/Entreat build - Back to Basics is the more robust hate card. From the Ashes is stronger if your game plan is centered around Mentor since you can FTA them and quickly aggro Eldrazi out with Mentor before they can recover their manabase. The biggest weakness with Back to Basics is that it does not affect Eye of Ugin and it sometimes can hinder your own mana (namely red sources). From The Ashes's is weak because its a 4 mana sorcery that can get Warping Wailed.

Blood Moon in my opinion is just bad and is strictly inferior to both B2B and FTA. Shutting down your own ability to shuffle is just too much of a liability too much of the time. I've seen more players lose to their own Blood Moon than it completely lock out their opponent as intended.

In my list, I've played x2 Back to Basics for sometime and have been very happy with them. Too many players playing with B2B bring them in against stuff like Shardless/Aluren/Bant etc which is just way bad and way wrong. B2B is only in the list for basically Eldrazi but has added utility against Lands and fringe decks like 12post/MUD etc. I also will bring in both Back to Basics against Omni Tell variants as a hedge against Boseiju, but its also a blue card for FoW and you have enough dead cards in the main deck anyways. Also keep in mind that Back to Basics is a lot worse against "Ghost Quarter Lands" than older builds.

Oh, and:

http://www.dvdizzy.com/images/m-p/peanuts1970s1-13.jpg

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Originally Posted by hyp3r1on

The choice of specific "Land Hate" is a contentious issue. What I believe is: If your Miracles list is designed to durdle like with Joe's build or a strict Ponder/Entreat build - Back to Basics is the more robust hate card. From the Ashes is stronger if your game plan is centered around Mentor since you can FTA them and quickly aggro Eldrazi out with Mentor before they can recover their manabase. The biggest weakness with Back to Basics is that it does not affect Eye of Ugin and it sometimes can hinder your own mana (namely red sources). From The Ashes's is weak because its a 4 mana sorcery that can get Warping Wailed.

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I've also heard that Venser bouncing B2B at opponent's Turn to free your own tapped lands and then replay B2B on your own turn using Basic is a good play.

not so sure.. it's Karakas +4+3 mana every turn to do that

At that point just keep the 8 mana around and play your deck

Back to basics is by far the biggest hatebear vs us. I am also a miracle player in paper. i do play 1 moon and 1 from the ashes. i think they also do the trick and are better in other matches

hatebear vs us? We play it.

Overall hatebear is a term meaning the typical 2/2 creature packed with some kind of hate ability (Teeg, Priest, Canonist, Meddling Mage)..

@drocker23
3 snaps is the standard unless you really need room and see lots of Deathrite Shaman

I been playing Nahiri Miracles on MTGO since May and go 4-1 or 3-2 in leagues most of the time. It is good online because Miracles and Eldrazi are over represented online versus paper. Nahiri is good in Miracles mirrors where it can remove counterbalance, or flip as a 4 to counter their Jace. Against Eldrazi, Nahiri can kill their tapped creature which is important when they have warping wail to hit your terminus and chalice for swords. Nahiri Ultimate is usually faster then setting up an Entreat but Mentor can be faster. If Nahiri could kill untapped artifacts I probably would play it in paper. In paper you have to play Delver, Death and Taxes and combo more where you do not want Nahiri. D+T is not played on MTGO cause Port is super expensive.

Miracles challenge
main deck
-1 Predict
-1 Ponder
-1 Volcanic Island
+1 Mountain

Predict can be good 3 Ponder is enough. Ran 1 Volc, 1 Mountain when I do run main deck mountain. It is pretty important against Shardless or blue decks with Wasteland and TNN to be able to blast Ancestral Visions or TNN.

Sideboard really depends on your meta.
Either +1 Back to basics or +1 Vendilion Clique

Eldrazi is one of your worst match ups this wins against them as long as you can deal with their board. You want 2 so you draw one. Alternative is to run Moat.

If you see alot of combo you want 3 cliques so you draw one to disrupt them and get a clock in play.

Blood Moon, Back to Basics, or From the Ashes really depends on what you want to beat and your meta.

I really dislike Blood Moon because it does nothing to the board, nerfs your fetches and you have to time it since they can float mana and Abrupt Decay or Krosan Grip it, or play a Rachet bomb or all is dust and kill it

Back to Basics depends on how much you play Eldrazi.

From the Ashes. Don't like this either. Gets hit by Warping Wail. Harder to resolve though Daze + Spell Perice costing 4. Requires you have Red. They get a basic so lands gets their forest and if they have a mox diamond they can still Loam.

@Chaosjace
Really depends on the meta, Rest in Peace is better against Dredge but Surgical removing all Life from the Loam or a combo piece can be game winning.

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Originally Posted by Poron

hatebear vs us? We play it.

Overall hatebear is a term meaning the typical 2/2 creature packed with some kind of hate ability (Teeg, Priest, Canonist, Meddling Mage)..

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hatecard whatever

Is spell snare worth the 2nd counterspell spot?

how many of you are running 21 lands? what card did you cut to fit in 21 lands, engineered explosives and council's judgment?

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Originally Posted by Arianeira

@drocker23
3 snaps is the standard unless you really need room and see lots of Deathrite Shaman

I been playing Nahiri Miracles on MTGO since May and go 4-1 or 3-2 in leagues most of the time. It is good online because Miracles and Eldrazi are over represented online versus paper. Nahiri is good in Miracles mirrors where it can remove counterbalance, or flip as a 4 to counter their Jace. Against Eldrazi, Nahiri can kill their tapped creature which is important when they have warping wail to hit your terminus and chalice for swords. Nahiri Ultimate is usually faster then setting up an Entreat but Mentor can be faster. If Nahiri could kill untapped artifacts I probably would play it in paper. In paper you have to play Delver, Death and Taxes and combo more where you do not want Nahiri. D+T is not played on MTGO cause Port is super expensive.

Miracles challenge
main deck
-1 Predict
-1 Ponder
-1 Volcanic Island
+1 Mountain

Predict can be good 3 Ponder is enough. Ran 1 Volc, 1 Mountain when I do run main deck mountain. It is pretty important against Shardless or blue decks with Wasteland and TNN to be able to blast Ancestral Visions or TNN.

Sideboard really depends on your meta.
Either +1 Back to basics or +1 Vendilion Clique

Eldrazi is one of your worst match ups this wins against them as long as you can deal with their board. You want 2 so you draw one. Alternative is to run Moat.

If you see alot of combo you want 3 cliques so you draw one to disrupt them and get a clock in play.

Blood Moon, Back to Basics, or From the Ashes really depends on what you want to beat and your meta.

I really dislike Blood Moon because it does nothing to the board, nerfs your fetches and you have to time it since they can float mana and Abrupt Decay or Krosan Grip it, or play a Rachet bomb or all is dust and kill it

Back to Basics depends on how much you play Eldrazi.

From the Ashes. Don't like this either. Gets hit by Warping Wail. Harder to resolve though Daze + Spell Perice costing 4. Requires you have Red. They get a basic so lands gets their forest and if they have a mox diamond they can still Loam.

@Chaosjace
Really depends on the meta, Rest in Peace is better against Dredge but Surgical removing all Life from the Loam or a combo piece can be game winning.

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can you share your list?

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Originally Posted by drocker23

Is spell snare worth the 2nd counterspell spot?

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Yes. Lossett runs Snare, therefore you should at least give it a try.

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Originally Posted by drocker23

how many of you are running 21 lands? what card did you cut to fit in 21 lands, engineered explosives and council's judgment?

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21 here, 21 with CJ and EE in the 60.

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Originally Posted by twndomn

21 here, 21 with CJ and EE in the 60.

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What card did you cut to make room

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Originally Posted by drocker23

What card did you cut to make room

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Your "Deck: Miracles Project (62)" list, -1 Predict -1 Ponder, then swap out a Volc for Mountain.

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Originally Posted by hyp3r1on

Blood Moon in my opinion is just bad and is strictly inferior to both B2B and FTA. Shutting down your own ability to shuffle is just too much of a liability too much of the time. I've seen more players lose to their own Blood Moon than it completely lock out their opponent as intended.

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And I've seen more players have a B2B do literal nothing because if it's not coming down when an opponent is tapped out, it doesn't help. Blood Moon can just fuck up an opponent's day even if they're not tapped out. I've casted a Moon against a Shardless player with GB represented, but since they didn't have the Decay in hand at the time they just lost on the spot. And same goes for against Infect (they can find their KGrips and still hit their land drops and then take out your B2B, where if you had a Moon they're cut off blue for the rest of the game). And DDFT, where if you have B2B they just hold 1 non-basic black source open for the rest of the game while they "sculpt" their hand.

I've said this before and I'll say it again: B2B has wider application but is less powerful, Blood Moon has narrower application but is more powerful. Also, if you're getting fucked by your own Moon then you didn't set it up correctly. And yes, you do need to set up Blood Moon. But if you've been fetching basics like you should anyway then that set-up becomes serendipitous in nature.

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Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual

And I've seen more players have a B2B do literal nothing because if it's not coming down when an opponent is tapped out, it doesn't help. Blood Moon can just fuck up an opponent's day even if they're not tapped out. I've casted a Moon against a Shardless player with GB represented, but since they didn't have the Decay in hand at the time they just lost on the spot. And same goes for against Infect (they can find their KGrips and still hit their land drops and then take out your B2B, where if you had a Moon they're cut off blue for the rest of the game). And DDFT, where if you have B2B they just hold 1 non-basic black source open for the rest of the game while they "sculpt" their hand.

I've said this before and I'll say it again: B2B has wider application but is less powerful, Blood Moon has narrower application but is more powerful. Also, if you're getting fucked by your own Moon then you didn't set it up correctly. And yes, you do need to set up Blood Moon. But if you've been fetching basics like you should anyway then that set-up becomes serendipitous in nature.

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Back to Basics is in my sideboard primarily for Eldrazi. They are literally tapping out on most of their turns to play their threats, so it's very rare to not have them completely tapped out when you land B2B. You're talking about all these situations where you're locking out decks like Infect and Shardless with Blood Moon and trying to compare the two cards on that level. I would never, ever advocate sideboarding in Back to Basics against the decks you're talking about. I will only sideboard in B2B against Eldrazi, Lands, fringe decks like MUD or 12post and Omni Tell variants as a hedge against Boseiju. Also for the record, I don't think Blood Moon is all that effective of a strategy against either Infect or Shardless.

No one is disagreeing with the notion that in a vacuum, Blood Moon is the more powerful card but in terms of Land-hate in Legacy at the moment, Back to Basics is much, much better. When you're playing against Eldrazi you don't have the time to be setting up these perfect Blood Moons where you have all your colours online and some removal lingering around to answer any threats that get through. Not to mention most Eldrazi decks now are more insulated against Blood Moon with stuff like Oblivion Sower. Back to Basics shuts down their mana base and when you draw your fetch lands - you can actually fetch for your basics and find answers for the spells that do get through.

Hey there, I have been playing legacy for a few years (started
~08/09) and I took about a 2 year break until recently. I've piloted miracles for the last 4 months or so but, unfortunately, the more recent articles in regards to strategy with the deck I have found are around the DTT era. I've read pretty intensely through the thread, but I am curious about what general consensus is for optimal sideboarding. I go about 3-2 or 4-1 in the legacy leagues, but have yet to go 5-0.

I play the following list on MTGO:
Planeswalker (2)
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Creature (5)
2 Monastery Mentor
3 Snapcaster Mage

Sorcery (10)
1 Council's Judgment
4 Ponder
4 Terminus
1 Entreat the Angels

Instant (15)
4 Brainstorm
1 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
2 Predict
4 Swords to Plowshares

Artifact (4)
4 Sensei's Divining Top

Enchantment (4)
4 Counterbalance

Land (20)
1 Arid Mesa 4 Flooded Strand 4 Island 1 Karakas 2 Plains 4 Scalding Tarn 2 Tundra 2 Volcanic Island
60 Cards

Sideboard (15)
1 Izzet Staticaster 1 Ensnaring Bridge 1 Blood Moon 2 Flusterstorm 1 Venser, Shaper Savant 2 Pyroblast 1 Red Elemental Blast 2 Surgical Extraction 2 Vendilion Clique 2 Wear // Tear

I am still considering 1 more mentor main and an entreat to the sb, fitting an EE main or sb somewhere, and whether or not to cut bm+venser for 2 B2B.

The online meta consists of a lot of RG/RGB lands, 4c loam, Miracles, rb Reanimator, SneakShow/Omnitell variants, Deathblade variants, Food chain (to me, this is a very hard matchup to win), Grixis/4c delver, Eldrazi, and Alluren. Do people have consistent sb guides they utilize or is there no framework people follow for these sort of matchups? Any, personally suggested, articles on miracles would be helpful, too! Thanks.

@oarsman79 takes the SCG Players Championship!

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Originally Posted by Echohots

Do people have consistent sb guides they utilize or is there no framework people follow for these sort of matchups? Any, personally suggested, articles on miracles would be helpful, too! Thanks.

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I am of the opinion that there is no clear cut sideboard strategy, as each sideboard (should IMO) be unique for each persons playstyle, meta, and based on their own personal MD choices. What is giving you problems from those decks? I think that is the angle you want to think about it from. Maybe you need to hold counter spells for game ending cards, maybe run some spell pierce in your main. Your meta seems combo heavy, maybe consider Predict might be slow against that.

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Originally Posted by MiraclesWizard

@oarsman79 takes the SCG Players Championship!

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If only Legacy was one of the formats.

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Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual

If only Legacy was one of the formats.

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Can't tell if serious.... they play all 3 formats?

first 3 rounds of Day 1 were Legacy. Then the finals was best of 3 .. legacy, modern and standard (with each format being itself a 2 of 3 match).

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Originally Posted by hyp3r1on

Back to Basics is in my sideboard primarily for Eldrazi. They are literally tapping out on most of their turns to play their threats, so it's very rare to not have them completely tapped out when you land B2B. You're talking about all these situations where you're locking out decks like Infect and Shardless with Blood Moon and trying to compare the two cards on that level. I would never, ever advocate sideboarding in Back to Basics against the decks you're talking about. I will only sideboard in B2B against Eldrazi, Lands, fringe decks like MUD or 12post and Omni Tell variants as a hedge against Boseiju. Also for the record, I don't think Blood Moon is all that effective of a strategy against either Infect or Shardless.

No one is disagreeing with the notion that in a vacuum, Blood Moon is the more powerful card but in terms of Land-hate in Legacy at the moment, Back to Basics is much, much better. When you're playing against Eldrazi you don't have the time to be setting up these perfect Blood Moons where you have all your colours online and some removal lingering around to answer any threats that get through. Not to mention most Eldrazi decks now are more insulated against Blood Moon with stuff like Oblivion Sower. Back to Basics shuts down their mana base and when you draw your fetch lands - you can actually fetch for your basics and find answers for the spells that do get through.

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Well that makes sense. I've been trying to figure out what the magical matchup was that had people running Back to Basics over Blood Moon.

I swear I saw Joe on camera running Back to Basics against a GBx deck; would be nice if he could explain his sideboarding strategy with this card.

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Originally Posted by Cipher

Well that makes sense. I've been trying to figure out what the magical matchup was that had people running Back to Basics over Blood Moon.

I swear I saw Joe on camera running Back to Basics against a GBx deck; would be nice if he could explain his sideboarding strategy with this card.

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If it helps any, I saw Joe's deck tech and his reasoning for running Back to Basic's, is that it doesn't punish his deck as badly as Blood Moon does. However, it's still absolutely back breaking against Eldrazi or Lands, similar to Blood Moon.

His example was, if he had 2 islands and a volcanic in play and he wanted to play blood moon, he's basically shut off White mana for the rest of the game until he draws a basic plans. Back to Basics, he's only shut off until he draws a fetchland or a plains (or a Karakas). Blood Moon doesn't shut off his Karakas is quite appealing to him as well with all the legendaries he runs, I'm sure.

He even said Blood Moon in a vacuum is a more powerful card, so I think it's more about keeping his fetches and Karakas online. They likely have the complete video up on SCG, if you want to hear it.

As a side note, I'm putting this deck together for the first time and just missing a few cards. Is the general consensus to play with 3 Snapcasters / 4 Force of Will / 2 Jace, TMS? The rest I can pretty much figure out based on my playstyle. Thanks!

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Originally Posted by Cipher

Well that makes sense. I've been trying to figure out what the magical matchup was that had people running Back to Basics over Blood Moon.

I swear I saw Joe on camera running Back to Basics against a GBx deck; would be nice if he could explain his sideboarding strategy with this card.

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Do you people just live under a cave?

https://youtu.be/3OmHYaupF4Q?t=11m15s

Joe explained Back to Basics, ... the whole Miracles deck, including SB, couple days ago. Oh..., Would it be nice to have a flash creature that can bounce your Back to Basic at opponent's turn to free your own non-basic lands and then replay Back to Basic using basic lands on your own turn? Wait a minute, legend build provides exactly that, what a coincidence?

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Originally Posted by twndomn

Do you people just live under a cave?

https://youtu.be/3OmHYaupF4Q?t=11m15s

Joe explained Back to Basics, ... the whole Miracles deck, including SB, couple days ago. Oh..., Would it be nice to have a flash creature that can bounce your Back to Basic at opponent's turn to free your own non-basic lands and then replay Back to Basic using basic lands on your own turn? Wait a minute, legend build provides exactly that, what a coincidence?

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Or maybe not everyone watched SCG? This thread is so fucking awful.

And yes, it is a coincidence. The deck didn't used to play Back to Basics, it's just a nice play you can do with Venser. You can also do it with Blood Moon to free up fetches for what it's worth.

The video is worth watching though, Joe does a good job explaining why he's playing Back to Basics over Blood Moon.

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Originally Posted by RhoxWarMonk

Can't tell if serious.... they play all 3 formats?

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Originally Posted by AsmodeusDM

first 3 rounds of Day 1 were Legacy. Then the finals was best of 3 .. legacy, modern and standard (with each format being itself a 2 of 3 match).

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I meant during the Top 8. "Standard Knockout Stage" is such a lame set up. I get that they want the "most competitive" format to have the highest stakes, but I would like them have it as a round-robin format and Legacy (the best format) as the Top 8 elimination.

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Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual

I meant during the Top 8. "Standard Knockout Stage" is such a lame set up. I get that they want the "most competitive" format to have the highest stakes, but I would like them have it as a round-robin format and Legacy (the best format) as the Top 8 elimination.

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I think, no matter how you look at it, them playing Legacy at all, is a very nice thing, considering how SCG and WotC are butchering the format over all.

I love Legendary/flashy lists because I think Monastery Mentor is nothing that a control deck wants to be.
This gives him the possibility to play one of the most backbreak card ever: Moat and Sulfur Elemental (nice with DnT everywhere).

Anyway:

1) Boseiju, SnT, Omniscience, Emrakul are still unbeatable to him. Karakas is not a proper answer to Omniscience/Emrakul
2) a Reanimated Griselbrand is almost unbeatable to him. At least play Humility or Ensnaring Bridge in Moat spot
3) REB just wrecks that deck from every single point of view. Creatures, counters, just everything but a last resort EtA
4) Wasteland is so much more strong against him than against us.

The only weak line is the first one because he can always put a "triggering" creature with SnT and then try to answer to Omniscience with REB/Wear, but hey.. that's strict. He plays 2. good luck with it.

Also: I would avoid Mentor just to have the edge in both the mirror and DnT with Sulfur Elemental (which was played 3x by the 2nd placed in the last GP and I loved his transformational SB for mirror and DnT), but if he doesn't play it.. not a lot of sense.

Additionally: EOT Terminus into From the Ashes is still the fucking best line possible against Eldrazi. Moat is not going to stick against a Priest/Displacer list that plays 3 Disenchant in SB (clearly)

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Originally Posted by Poron

I love Legendary/flashy lists because I think Monastery Mentor is nothing that a control deck wants to be.
This gives him the possibility to play one of the most backbreak card ever: Moat and Sulfur Elemental (nice with DnT everywhere).

Anyway:

1) Boseiju, SnT, Omniscience, Emrakul are still unbeatable to him. Karakas is not a proper answer to Omniscience/Emrakul
2) a Reanimated Griselbrand is almost unbeatable to him. At least play Humility or Ensnaring Bridge in Moat spot
3) REB just wrecks that deck from every single point of view. Creatures, counters, just everything but a last resort EtA
4) Wasteland is so much more strong against him than against us.

The only weak line is the first one because he can always put a "triggering" creature with SnT and then try to answer to Omniscience with REB/Wear, but hey.. that's strict. He plays 2. good luck with it.

Also: I would avoid Mentor just to have the edge in both the mirror and DnT with Sulfur Elemental (which was played 3x by the 2nd placed in the last GP and I loved his transformational SB for mirror and DnT), but if he doesn't play it.. not a lot of sense.

Additionally: EOT Terminus into From the Ashes is still the fucking best line possible against Eldrazi. Moat is not going to stick against a Priest/Displacer list that plays 3 Disenchant in SB (clearly)

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who are you referring to as "him"??

Local store is having an aggressive sale on legacy staples and I'm thinking of buying in. Thoughts? Recs? Joe told me I can play the deck with a low # of duals @ Chiba, but is this really tenable? As for the red splash I do own a Plateau, but I take it you really need the volc

* 9 Fetches - Own
* 1 Tundra - Buy 1
* 2 Plains - Own
* 7 Islands - Own
* 1 Hallowed Fountain - Own
* 4 Counterbalance - Buy 4
* 4 Top - Buy 2, Own 2
* 4 Terminus - Buy 3, Own 1
* 4 Force - Own 4
* 4 Brainstorm - Own 4
* 4 Ponder - Own 4
* 4 STP - Own 4
* 2 Back to the Basics - Buy 2
* 2 Counterspell - Own 2
* 3 Snapcaster Mage - Own 3
* 3 Monastery Mentor - Own 3
* 1 Engineered Explosives - Own 1
* 1 Jace the Mindsculptor - Own 1

About 240ish to get what I'm missing.

Yes, go for it.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

What is the preferred manabase if I have one tundra (and one plateau)? 8-9 fetches, 1 dual, 2 plains, 6 islands, and 1 praerie?

I want to get into miracles to help improve my overall control playskill in other formats. I've had strong success with turbo depths, but it isn't exactly the most complicated of decks.

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Originally Posted by jdmdave

What is the preferred manabase if I have one tundra (and one plateau)? 8-9 fetches, 1 dual, 2 plains, 6 islands, and 1 praerie?

I want to get into miracles to help improve my overall control playskill in other formats. I've had strong success with turbo depths, but it isn't exactly the most complicated of decks.

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I used to run 1 Plateau and 1 Volcanic Island as red sources for my build (your classical Ponder Build)
I ended cutting the Plateau for a Steam Vents (as I only own 1 Volcanic Island)
The blue mana is very important and the 2 damages from the lone shock dual is not THAT bad (most of the time :wink:)

The Plateau will be useless. Use it as credit towards a second tundra or a first volcanic. Also, use shocks, not the new dual that enters tapped unless you have 2 basic lands. You want the option, and shocks give you that.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

Got it. Here are the relevant UWR lands I own.

* 4 Hallowed Fountains
* 4 Strands
* 4 Deltas
* 2 Tarns
* 2 Mesa
* 4 Streams
* 1 Plateau
* 2 Karakas

It would be 220 from my local store to buy the following:

* 1 Tundra
* 2 Tops
* 4 Counterbalances
* 3 Mentors
* 3 Terminus
* 3 Ponders

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Originally Posted by Quasim0ff

I think, no matter how you look at it, them playing Legacy at all, is a very nice thing, considering how SCG and WotC are butchering the format over all.

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Such a sad feeling...

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Originally Posted by jdmdave

Got it. Here are the relevant UWR lands I own.

* 4 Hallowed Fountains
* 4 Strands
* 4 Deltas
* 2 Tarns
* 2 Mesa
* 4 Streams
* 1 Plateau
* 2 Karakas

It would be 220 from my local store to buy the following:

* 1 Tundra
* 2 Tops
* 4 Counterbalances
* 3 Mentors
* 3 Terminus
* 3 Ponders

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As long as that tundra isn't ripped in half, that's like....an insane bargain. What condition is the tundra?

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Originally Posted by jdmdave

Got it. Here are the relevant UWR lands I own.

* 4 Hallowed Fountains
* 4 Strands
* 4 Deltas
* 2 Tarns
* 2 Mesa
* 4 Streams
* 1 Plateau
* 2 Karakas

It would be 220 from my local store to buy the following:

* 1 Tundra
* 2 Tops
* 4 Counterbalances
* 3 Mentors
* 3 Terminus
* 3 Ponders

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I would play with following land base with your budget:

1 Tundra
1 Fountain
4 Strands
2 Deltas
2 Tarns
2 Mesa (yes this is 12 fetches)
2 Plains
4 Island
1 Mountain
1 Steam Vents

That's 20 lands. Play that with 4 ponders and 2 Preordains/predicts and you will be fine. If you think you need more than 20 lands, add a another fetch over more fountains or karakas. With that MD you could play 3 blasts in the SB and wear tear. As a budgeted player I would also recommended not buying clique or flusterstorms as a high propriety. They are good cards, but cheaper cards can fill their roles well (and in some metas better).

Thanks for the advice.

I actually already own cliques and flusterstorms.