[DTB] Vial Goblins

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Originally Posted by GoboLord

(1)
I don't find Thorn very good against control - not even worth boarding. You don't want to side out creatures for non-Goblins when you are up against control.

(2)
Just play Chalice @ 0 and your problems are solved. Plus, the good thing about Chalice is, that you can choose whether to put it @0 or @1 (big advantage over Thorn). Therefore you can make sure that it does not fuck up with Vial/Lackey/Bolt/Extirpate. You can also design your sideboard/maindeck in a way that Chalice is never among the same 60 cards with Bolt and Extirpate (Lackey and Vial are mostly unavoidable).

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1)
thorn's not good against ctrl? u fuck it with manadenial by definition
1 thorn and 1 active port and u never see moat humility plague etc!!
turn 1 lackey forced of will and ur raped at turn 4 with hulility and then another gob is fuck against thorn i think

2)so i have to play cotv at 0 in order no to be dead with my others turn one
but how can i play cotv when my opener played his mox led before my first turn?
even if cotv is better against combo and im ok with it, but in which others MU cotv is used as DTB?
zoo?bant?etc thanks for developpings

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Originally Posted by guedax

1)
thorn's not good against ctrl? u fuck it with manadenial by definition
1 thorn and 1 active port and u never see moat humility plague etc!!
turn 1 lackey forced of will and ur raped at turn 4 with hulility and then another gob is fuck against thorn i think

2)so i have to play cotv at 0 in order no to be dead with my others turn one
but how can i play cotv when my opener played his mox led before my first turn?
even if cotv is better against combo and im ok with it, but in which others MU cotv is used as DTB?
zoo?bant?etc thanks for developpings

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When playing ANT or TES, I'd rather see Thorn of Amethyst than Chalice of the Void.

@Thorn: This card is for fighting Combo. It is just bad against Control. If they FoW your T1 Lackey, great You beat them anyway. What they can`t deal is with our shitloads of creatures, not against Artifacts. Removing goblins to play Thorn is a bad idea.
The problem is: IF you want to run something against combo (you may not want to, like myself), the card WILL be narrow. CotV is nice because you can drop it without delaying your gameplan. Thorn costs too much mana IMO.Another good option it you want to consider these things is Null Rod, while it`s great against Combo and Affinity.

@Liege: I like the card against both Plague and Firespout. Even if Firespout kill all your other guys, you still have a 3/4 in play, and hopefully another goblin in your hand. If they don`t get to kill him in 2-3 turns, he will do a lot of dmg with him.
Against Plague, you jast have to hope he doesent have enough removal. IF he has 2 Plague AND removal for all your guys, hten you`ll lose either way...

@Stingscourger: The card is great, and I absolutely would run him if I had more space. Also, If your meta has lots of SnT, then run him. He may be good for some people, and bad for others.

@Shooter+Prospector: I love them, but there certainly are lists that don`t run them and are great.

@guedax: Welcome to The Source.
Please try to capitalize, punctuate and express your opinions better.

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Originally Posted by RaNDoMxGeSTuReS

When playing ANT or TES, I'd rather see Thorn of Amethyst than Chalice of the Void.

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You can still tutor for an answer with Chalice, much harder with Thorn.

Just came home from the Legacy tournament i played today, placing 2nd.
The funny thing is that, the top 3 players where all from the same city as me, and in the final i faced a guy i play legacy with on regular basis, and he also plays Goblins. The final was extremely tight, but he drew 2 more Pyrokinesis than me in the 3rd match, when we where tied 1-1.

This was the decklist i played:
Main:
4 Gempalm Incinerator
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Goblin Chieftain
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Matron
3 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Goblin Warchief
3 Mogg War Marshal
2 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Skirk Prospector
3 Lightning Bolt
4 Aether Vial
15 Mountain
3 Rishadan Port (I wanted a 4th one but i only had 3).
4 Wasteland
Sideboard:
1 Boartusk Liege
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Blood Moon
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Pyrokinesis
1 Tuktuk Scrapper

Round 1, UGW Vengevine:
Faced my friend Jon who are from the same city and playtesting group as me, he is playing UGW Survival and we have playtested this matchup alot, and he wins about 70% of the times.
Game 1: 3 Venges turn 3.
Game 2: I took mulligan to 5, he get 2 Venges turn 3 and can play Loyal Retainers for Iona turn 4.

0-1, 0-2

Round 2, White Stax:
Game 1: Can't remember much, but i wasted Ancient Tomb early and got a vial and won shortly after.
Game 2: Almost lost this to the Tabernacle dude, but i somehow kill it and then wins with Blood Moon.

1-1, 2-2

Round 3, Storm:
Game 1: He goes off with Ad Naseum turn 2, he goes down to 3 life with Ad Naseum, i respond on the resolve with a Lightning Bolt.
Game 2: Chalice of the Void turn 1 on 0, and a Goblin Lackey was to much for him.

2-1, 4-2

Round 4, Storm:
Game 1: I manage to waste one of his lands and ports the other, and then kill him turn 4 or 5, can't remember.
Game 2: Chalice of the void on 0 on turn 1 and a Vial. He goes of turn 3 with 12 Goblin tokens, i manage to block and survive and then end it with Goblin Sharpshooter, Skirk Prospector + Siege-Gang Commander.

3-1, 6-2

Round 5, Rock:
We ID so we are safe to top 8.

3-1-1, 6-2

Top 8:
Quarterfinal, UW Merfolk:
Game 1: I take mulligan to 4 and get a hand with 2 Aether Vials, 1 Goblin Lackey and a Goblin Piledriver, i keep since i dont want to mulligan down to 3. To bad i don't draw lands and loose, but he didn't see a single card from my deck.
Game 2: I get a Aether Vial turn 1, turn 2 Rishadan port, Turn 3 Wasteland, and it was pretty much game.
Game 3: I get a stable hand with an Aether Vial, Mogg War Marshall, Pyrokinesis and some dudes. He can't handle all my removal and card advantage and i win stable.

Semi Final, UGW Survival
I face my friend Jon again, same guy as i lost to in the first round.
Game 1: He only gets some mana dudes and Wild Mongrel, no Survival nor anything dangerous. So i kill him with a horde of goblins after a while.
Game 2: Natural Order to Progenitus turn 3.
Game 3: I take mulligan to 6. He does not have Survival. We trade bunch of guys untill we hit turn 6/7, He plays FOW on my Pyrokinesis when i want to kill Wild Mongrell and his mana dudes, we both have no cards on our hands after that, and he have 2 Noble Hierarch and a Wild Mongrell in play, i have a Goblin Lackey and Goblin Warchief.
Goblins are really awsome in top-decking mode, so i won that one aswell.

Final, Goblins (Faster version than mine, he plays with Warren Instigator and more spot removal:
I face my friend Daniel, who also are my friend from the same city. We both play Goblins but my list are alot better in the mirror match, and i have never lost a mirror on a tournament.
Game 1: Both get early vials, the game goes back and forth, but i win due to Gempalms and finish with Siege-Gang Commander.
Game 2: The early game are very tight, but i drew no Goblin Matron or Goblin Ringleader on the whole game, so i lost gas and he won.
Game 3: I controll the early game, he plays Pyrokinesis and taking, 1 Goblin Chieftain, 1 Goblin Lackey and a Goblin Warchief who he also chumped.
He gets a bunch of dudes out, but i manage to stabilize and i have 3 Aether Vials in play.
The game goes into top decking mode, we both drew Siege-Gangs after eachother and managed to find answer on both, and we are both on low lifes.
Then i drew lands in some turns while he gets Warchiefs and Piledriver.
Finally i get my last Siege-Gang and can bolt him to death if he lets me untap, he has 1 card in hand, that is Pyrokinesis, he hardcasts it and attack for the win.
Well, he deserved to win since he is a much better player than me aswell.

CONS:
*Didn't meet any Merfolk nor Zoo in the Swiss, which i wanted to play. But i won't complain.
*Did much more mulligans than i am used to, sometimes i got flooded or had no land.
*There where many times i wished that i had drew more Rishadan Ports, im gonna play 4 next time.

PROS:
*3 of the 4 Players from my city that played the legacy tournament went top 8.
*Blood Moon where a good call for the meta.
*Skirk Prospector and Goblin Sharpshooter gets MVP for the day.
*I really liked the Mono-R version and i didn't miss the other colors.
*Chalice of the Void, i think it's so much more effective than Mindbreak Trap in my meta, since the storm decks i faced both played Duress and Thoughtsieze.

Sorry for the bad grammar and spelling. But i just came home and i've slept 4-5 hours since friday, and i just felt to share the experience with my fellow Goblin players :)

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Originally Posted by antonbystedt

This was the decklist i played:
Main:
4 Gempalm Incinerator
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Goblin Chieftain
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Matron
3 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Goblin Warchief
3 Mogg War Marshal
2 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Skirk Prospector
3 Lightning Bolt
4 Aether Vial
14 Mountain
3 Rishadan Port (I wanted a 4th one but i only had 3).
4 Wasteland
Sideboard:
1 Boartusk Liege
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Blood Moon
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Pyrokinesis
1 Tuktuk Scrapper

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If i counted correctly, that are onlyl 59 cards in your main board. Despite of that congratulation to your result.

@antonbystedt: Nice one! Survival is not that difficult to beat if they don't have... well... Survival =D
Where have you used BloodMoons?

It's funny to come back after not reading this thread for three days and seeing how everyone is as happy as i have been with Skirk Prospector/Sharpshooter. I recently added prospector to the main deck for the simple reason that i hate slow starts. Goblins biggest weakness is its lack of 1-drops. Skirk prospector is great one-drop, allowing for extremely fast starts and great synergy with MWM and Sharpshooter. I think that Sharpshooter is definitely a mandatory 1-of in the maindeck right now. It's really good in the meta

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Originally Posted by ScatmanX

@guedax: Welcome to The Source.
Please try to capitalize, punctuate and express your opinions better.

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Hey, where's my welcoming banner? JK

after some thought, I'd have to agree with Scat on Liege. Although against Firespout if he has creatures, he'd pump them too, but nothing gobs can't handle though. On E.plagues, you might as well scoop on 2 and a bunch of removals.

I prefer CotV too, because it's much more flexible for the slot.

Haven't tested prospector just yet, just unearthed the card,but in paper it seems like a very good idea, although being a one-off means it would rarely come out on the first draw to maximize its cost.

Ah, the Stingscourger. I've played a couple against mfolk and both times he quit after vialing it on an attacking flying coralhelm, saying that bounce shouldn't be on a red goblin. lol

Your cards for fighting combo should be Mindbreak Trap and/or Chalice of the Void (And Needle, for Belcher). Thorn of Amethyst is a terrible, terrible card that doesn't belong in hardly any decks except possibly heavily colorless ones. Very often you won't get the Thorn down until it's too late, and very often you'll only buy a couple turns with it.

As an aside, what are you running right now, Taco?

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Originally Posted by ScatmanX

@antonbystedt: Nice one! Survival is not that difficult to beat if they don't have... well... Survival =D
Where have you used BloodMoons?

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Thanks!
I boarded Blood Moons against, Survival, White Stax and Merfolk. Since the Merflok deck had 20 Nonbasic lands and only 21 lands total (8 Fetch, 4 Tundra, 4 Mutavault, 4 Wasteland), and Mutavaults are really annoying.
White Stax just died against it, and it would kill the Survival deck since he only played 1 Basic land.

And the 60th card was a Mountain that i forgot :P

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Originally Posted by antonbystedt

Round 3, Storm:
Game 1: He goes off with Ad Naseum turn 2, he goes down to 3 life with Ad Naseum, i respond on the resolve with a Lightning Bolt.
Game 2: Chalice of the Void turn 1 on 0, and a Goblin Lackey was to much for him.

2-1, 4-2

Round 4, Storm:
Game 1: I manage to waste one of his lands and ports the other, and then kill him turn 4 or 5, can't remember.
Game 2: Chalice of the void on 0 on turn 1 and a Vial. He goes of turn 3 with 12 Goblin tokens, i manage to block and survive and then end it with Goblin Sharpshooter, Skirk Prospector + Siege-Gang Commander.

3-1, 6-2

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This is why I play Chalice. Turn off 12 cards in your deck? Yes please. Sorry Thorn of Amethyst, Mindbreak Trap, Pyrostatic Pillar, et al.

Way to represent.

against what do you side calice?
is it good against zoo in addition with perish?(not big zoo)

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Originally Posted by bakofried

As an aside, what are you running right now, Taco?

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Against Combo? Mindbreak Trap.

I've thought about experimenting with Chalice of the Void, but I run into SO MUCH BELCHER where I play and I don't really have the spots for 5-7 combo hate cards. Chalice of the Void doesn't do shit in a Belcher match, because you'll hit a ton of match results like this:

Game 1 - Regardless of who goes first, Belcher laughs at your non-Force of Will-packing self and eats your face.
Game 2 - You get your Chalice, have just a little bit of tempo, and manage to handle things before Shattering Spree turns it around.
Game 3 - You get your Chalice, then realize how pointless it is because you didn't go first. Your next thought is "Hey, That Taco guy, he might be on to something about Mindbreak Trap."

The same is occasionally true, albeit to a lesser degree, against Tendrils decks. They tend to go off on turn 1 far less frequently, though, and even if they slip their 0-drops in before you get a turn, Chalice still can cause them a few problems sometimes. That said, They occasionally just completely circumvent Mindbreak Trap, so you kind of have to pick your poison.

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Originally Posted by guedax

against what do you side calice?
is it good against zoo in addition with perish?(not big zoo)

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I've found it good against, Canadian Thresh, Zoo (Sometimes), All storm decks, Life.dec.

There could be some deck that i forgot, and it may work against Enchantress.

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Originally Posted by Tacosnape

Your cards for fighting combo should be Mindbreak Trap and/or Chalice of the Void (And Needle, for Belcher). Thorn of Amethyst is a terrible, terrible card that doesn't belong in hardly any decks except possibly heavily colorless ones. Very often you won't get the Thorn down until it's too late, and very often you'll only buy a couple turns with it.

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Have you tried this post banning of Mystical Tutor, I had the same opinion but combo decks became slower and, additionally, have more trouble tutoring for answers (can't do it on instant speed, for one thing).

Diversifying hate is always the right call against combo, as they'll play around your hate G3. If you're using 4 spots for combo, might as well go all the way.

Nice game anton!

Do you remember what you boarded in against the different matchups?

And leyline of the void, in which matchups do you use that?

Actually I was wondering what your MD looked like. I remember what you used to play, but what are you playing now that the meta has shifted?

I recently picked my goblin deck back up again, and I agree on the fact the Prospecter+Sharpshooter is a very nice tech for the meta atm. Only thing I dont really understand: Is tuktukscrapper really good enough to give it a slot sideboard or even maindeck?