When i look at the Modo lists i think Blood Moon has become a SB staple in this deck. Not playing one feels wrong^^ anyone feels like sharing their favorite blood moon story?
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When i look at the Modo lists i think Blood Moon has become a SB staple in this deck. Not playing one feels wrong^^ anyone feels like sharing their favorite blood moon story?
Vs Team America, we finish a counter/creatures war, he has 3/4 land and liliana, no cards in hand and 44 cards in deck. I have 4/5 lands, no cards in hand and a top (46 cards in the deck). EoT I look with the top and in my turn draw and cast Blood Moon. The game ends 44 turns later, lili destroying all my permanents except for blood moon, and my opponent without cards in deck :tongue::tongue::tongue:
In what metas is are the different builds of miracles best?
* helm-build
* thopters-build
* snapcaster-build
* legends-build
If theres no abrupt decay decks in your meta.Quote:
Originally Posted by autonom
Not sure, I quess if theres lots of fair decks and you have time to assemble the combo. The list MatiasNL posted seems something I want to try before I can give better opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by autonom
Snap builds feel most flexible (and best) to me because they work in all metas. They are at their weakest against stifle delver builds.Quote:
Originally Posted by autonom
Lots of show and tell and I quess mirror? I found BUG matchups hard because this build doesnt play ponders. Having your draw quality go up against decks that destroy your hand seems very good and ponders help with that.Quote:
Originally Posted by autonom
The biggest problem with helm/RIP builds is that they have a hard time pressuring planeswalkers like liliana or jace. Other problems include:
-card disadvantage thru enlightened tutor
-decayable enchantments/artifacts like RIP, energy field, pithing needle, Oblivion ring/Detention sphere
one solution could be a couple of councils judgment but i havent seen builds that utilize it yet.
generally the Ponder build is better against creature decks and the legendary works better against any kind of combo.
My opponent was playing 4-colour Deathrite Shaman (UBRG) to beat up on all of the decks who aren't doing anything all game, Miracles, 12-Post, Nic Fit, and so on. He hammered me in G1. In G2 he curves Shaman, into Goyf, into Lili, into Jace. I countered the Lili, Terminused the Board, then slammed the Blood Moon when he tapped out for Jace. He Brainstorms a couple of times whilst I cast a keranos.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adryan
Two games in a row.
what do people do against flipped Delver or Chalice of the void without Eng Explosives?
I still like it. It also nukes Nimble Mongoose
* helm-buildQuote:
Originally Posted by autonom
When BUG Delvers and RUG Delvers are everywhere. The more Goyf and dredge there are, the better. Terrible against opposing Planeswalkers.
* thopters-build
The best Blood Moon centric build. You can easily SB-in Blood Moon and not needing WW for Entreat. Great in the field of greedy Mana base.
* snapcaster-build
Better against field of fair decks running creatures, including combo elves.
* legends-build
Better against field of unfair decks running combos.
Do you think "Dig throught time" can have a place as a singleton in this deck?
You can. I've won dailies with Sphinx's Revelation and Thundermaw Hellkite in my SB. Is it optimal? no.Quote:
Originally Posted by cschacal
Quick question for you guys... Is there ever a metagame where Miracles isn't ideal? If such a metagame exists what deck would strive where miracles wouldn't?
Interesting article by Carsten Kotter. I think Dig Through Time may be a 1 or 2-of in Miracles lists. I was already going to test it out, but he's calling this and Treasure Cruise format-warping.
You'll only figure out how powerful it is when you test it. And yes, from what I've seen so far I fully agree with Carsten.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nihilis
12 PostsQuote:
Originally Posted by JankMaster
RUG Delver
Burn
Goblins
While Dig can be the new FoF, doesn't the card serve better in combo decks?
RUG delver has been giving me lots of trouble lately, but I think it's mainly a patience / lack of matchup experience thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by twndomn
Dig looks interesting, but is an auto-board out in any game we bring in RIP for. I'd be willing to give it a shot though.
I don't think RUG Delver or Burn are anything else besides favorable MU's. I don't want to sound like a dick, but maybe you're not skilled enough with this deck, if you have troubles beating Burn or Rug Delver. Even without SFM it's quite favorable.Quote:
Originally Posted by twndomn
Goblins on the other hand should be a bad MU on paper, but i disagree. First it's an inconsistent deck, that can have do nothing draws or draws that lose to Jace and his 0 ability every turn. Without SFM it's a slightly negative MU from my experience (had many testgames), but with SFM it's positive. Ofc there will respond players like Jonny Theorycrafter, who will say otherwise but to those i have to say. Be a good Miracle pilot, play the version of Miracles that is good against creature based decks and play a lot of games against Goblins. In addition to that Goblin is completely dead to hatecards like Humility, which does have a purpose in other MU's, unlike Moat.
If the worst deck in Legacy aka 12 Post (i mean a deck that is bad against Combo&Delver decks^^) ever becomes popular, i'd just jam 4-5 Moon effects in my 75 and be happy when playing against 12 Post.
Played the Thopter build tonight and went 1-2-1. I liked it and I feel like it was my inexperience that really hurt. (Granted, my loss to burn I was a turn off locking up the match both games.) I like it more than the Entreat Legends build I have been testing. I own Moat, so using that with Thopter was a fair amount of fun.
The build I used was the BBD build with -1 Stoneforge -1 Humility +1 Counterspell +1 Moat. I am going back to three Stoneforge and I think I will go to 2 Swords for the extra Counterspell.
Who else uses the Thopter build? What do you think about it and what cards are your MPV?
Also, Top lock against Loam trying to Punishing Fire me out. A smile grew ever wider on my lips.
The only bad matchup 12 post has from the list above is BUG Delver. All other delver decks are byes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adryan
12 post has a good combo matchup, not as good as Miracles, but it's not as bad as you are implying.
If it's so, well then it's kind of a Miracle why i NEVER played against 12 Post on Modo when i was 2-0 or 3-0. Also why is that deck not at least 2% of the meta, if it's as good as you are implying? I think that it has something to do with that there is no relevant positive MU besides Miracles on Modo.Quote:
Originally Posted by sauce
First of all, it's a deck that a lot of people (like yourself) do not respect. If you can't respect it, you won't play it. I was in the same camp for the longest time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adryan
I used to play Counterbalance decks for years, before Miracles were printed. I played all the variations, the Bant version before Nassif's, Nassif's version w/ Vedalken shackles that won GP Chicago, Thopters, etc.
I would run into 12 post once a year playing CB and would lose but would always chalk it up to a "garbage deck that nobody plays".
I did well with Miracles once they got printed, finishing 2nd in SCG DFW, losing in a "mirror" to Joe Bass.
When TNN got printed, my metagame was already infested with Miracles mirrors. I decided to start playing 12 post because it sh*ts on TNN and on Miracles.
I been playing the deck for almost a year now w/ only minor strays to try other archetypes once every 3-4 months.
12 post is a rock solid control deck w/ very few flaws. It has a difficult time w/ decks like BUG Delver because of the amount of different attacking angles it has which all hurt 12 post's game plan.
It attacks the hand, the life total, the stack and the mana. 12 post can win if it's attacked on 2/4 of those angles but not all 4 consistently.
Elves is a different animal, it forces 12 post to play very defensively by having crop rotation up as soon as turn 2 on the draw and turn 3 on the play. If you have a T3 S&T into Primeval, you will win the game, otherwise you will most likely lose the game. That's how that matchup goes.
Beyond those two matchups, 12 post is pretty much a lock to win. Storm combo will most of the time win G1 but struggle g2 and g3 once 15 cards come in.
Other Delver decks just don't do enough in terms of the attack angles (either slower clock or no hand disruption) to be consistent enough vs 12 post.
Burn is not a great matchup but I would not say its as bad as Elves or BUG Delver by any means.
Because Modo has a lot of BUG Delver, Elves and Burn decks and a lot of Miracles decks, 12 post is not the best deck to play. In real life, thankfully, you get to play vs a wider gamut of decks and once you start winning or even getting draws, you can lock yourself into the miracles bracket which is a great place for 12 post to be.