[Deck] 12 Post

Thanks, everyone! I think I'm gonna try the following sideboard:

1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Krosan Grip
2 Rest In Peace
2 Sphere of Resistance
1 Nephalia Academy
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Moment's Peace
2 Thought-Knot Seer

I also ordered two copies of Silence, although I don't know what I would take out for them.

A Hive Mind question (as this card always killed me in Modern): Nature's Claim never solved the problem because they could cast a Pact in response and I still get the copy even though Hive Mind gets destroyed. If I Krosan Grip a Hive Mind, however, they can't respond at all, thus saving me from the upkeep loss... correct?

Currently testing my R/G brew, don't really have many events in my area to actually get some real games in but my buddy has a few decks proxied up to help me with testing.

My sideboard is kinda all over the place and I'd like to somehow fit Oath of Nissa into the mainboard for Emrakul, but I'd appreciate feedback on the 75

What I have so far:

Lands (26)
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Taiga (3 Taiga/1 Mountain?)
1 Karakas
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Vesuva
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Cavern of Souls
2 Forest
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Mountain
1 Nephalia Academy (testing vs. 2nd Mountain)

Creatures (9)
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion (flex spot)
2 Minna and Denn, Wildborn
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
4 Primeval Titan
1 Emrakul, the Promised End

Spells (25)
4 Crop Rotation
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Candelabra of Tawnos
3 Ugin's Nexus
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
3 Kozilek's Return
3 Warping Wall (or 3 GSZ)
4 Ancient Stirrings
2 Expedition Map
2 Bonfire of the Damned

Sideboard (15)
1x Bojuka Bog
2x Krosan Grip
2x Grafdigger's Cage
2x Splendid Reclamation
4x Surgical Extraction
1x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2x Pyroblast
1x World Breaker

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Originally Posted by cwcomposer

Thanks, everyone! I think I'm gonna try the following sideboard:

1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Krosan Grip
2 Rest In Peace
2 Sphere of Resistance
1 Nephalia Academy
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Moment's Peace
2 Thought-Knot Seer

I also ordered two copies of Silence, although I don't know what I would take out for them.

A Hive Mind question (as this card always killed me in Modern): Nature's Claim never solved the problem because they could cast a Pact in response and I still get the copy even though Hive Mind gets destroyed. If I Krosan Grip a Hive Mind, however, they can't respond at all, thus saving me from the upkeep loss... correct?

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Incorrect. They have priority with hive mind in play. They can retain priority and cast multiple pacts causing triggers to be put on the stack and then you can destroy hive mind, but it won't do any good

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Originally Posted by cwcomposer

Thanks, everyone! I think I'm gonna try the following sideboard:

1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Krosan Grip
2 Rest In Peace
2 Sphere of Resistance
1 Nephalia Academy
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Moment's Peace
2 Thought-Knot Seer

I also ordered two copies of Silence, although I don't know what I would take out for them.

A Hive Mind question (as this card always killed me in Modern): Nature's Claim never solved the problem because they could cast a Pact in response and I still get the copy even though Hive Mind gets destroyed. If I Krosan Grip a Hive Mind, however, they can't respond at all, thus saving me from the upkeep loss... correct?

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As mykatdied said, think of hive mind the same way you would treat dealing with Omniscience, except their only goal is usually to cast their spells at all, nevermind the resolution of them.

Your best answer to hive mind in mono green is either warping wail on show and tell, or Grip in response to a triggered ability on the stack with show and tell (titan/glimmerpost) then hoping they don't maintain priority and fire off pacts. Titan can usually get enough mana to pay 1-2 pacts, especially with candelabra. Remember you have white, black, green and vesuva can get you blue in mono green and sometimes red if they have volcs.

That delicious feeling you get when your opponent doesn't realize you can pay for a pact, but they can't.

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Originally Posted by mykatdied

Incorrect. They have priority with hive mind in play. They can retain priority and cast multiple pacts causing triggers to be put on the stack and then you can destroy hive mind, but it won't do any good

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Originally Posted by Rock Lee

As mykatdied said, think of hive mind the same way you would treat dealing with Omniscience, except their only goal is usually to cast their spells at all, nevermind the resolution of them.

Your best answer to hive mind in mono green is either warping wail on show and tell, or Grip in response to a triggered ability on the stack with show and tell (titan/glimmerpost) then hoping they don't maintain priority and fire off pacts. Titan can usually get enough mana to pay 1-2 pacts, especially with candelabra. Remember you have white, black, green and vesuva can get you blue in mono green and sometimes red if they have volcs.

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Ugh. I hate Hive Mind so much.

I was able to Warping Wail the Show and Tell, then Surgical Extraction the other three copies. But she made it to turn five, cast Hive Mind with two Pact of Negation AND a Summoner's Pact in hand. I had two Vesuvas in play as copies of her Islands, two Forests of my own, and a ton of colorless mana, but couldn't pay the UUUUGGx...

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Originally Posted by mykatdied

That delicious feeling you get when your opponent doesn't realize you can pay for a pact, but they can't.

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Oh that must feel sweet. The closest I ever came to that was in Modern when an opponent played a Pact with the plan of paying for it the next turn, and then I Karn-ed away a key land and he couldn't pay. His response was, "Yeah, I was hoping you wouldn't notice that." :)

won weekly tournament and still not much changes i'm getting to play ;)

Maverick 2:1
Storm 2:1
Mentor Miracles 2:0
Ur Delver 2:0

1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
4 Primeval Titan

4 Brainstrom
3 Crop Rotation
3 Flusterstorm
2 Repeal
1 Trickbind

3 Show and Tell

2 Candelabra of Tawnos
2 Engineered Explosives
3 Expedition Map
2 Pithing Needle
4 Sensei's Divining Top

1 Bojuka Bog
1 Cavern of Souls
4 Cloudpost
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Forest
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Glimmerpost
1 Island
1 Karakas
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Tropical Island
2 Vesuva

SB:
1 Beb
1 Crop Rotation
2 Fow
2 Gut Shot
2 krosan Grip
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Trickbind
2 Carpet of Flowers
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Titania,Protector of Argoth
1 Ugin ,the Spirit Dragon

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Drixx

SB:
1 Beb
1 Crop Rotation
2 Fow
2 Gut Shot
2 krosan Grip
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Trickbind
2 Carpet of Flowers
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Titania,Protector of Argoth
1 Ugin ,the Spirit Dragon

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Nice job! What do you have the Gutshots for?

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Originally Posted by Neko448

Nice job! What do you have the Gutshots for?

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mostly for xantid swarm its very important removal for 0 mana and still have open mana for other counters so for storm if you have lot of counters in hand with xantid swarm you can do nothing without it just force it and you just don't want to tap in second turn two mana for warping wail or repeal or EE sacrificing i tried to use some permanent hate like trini,chalice but they bring after lot of decays,grips like for miracles that's same i like more top manipulation or brainstorming to protect discard spells but against mono green build players they don't use xantid swarm in just because of warping wail i guess so its better for ug build and another bad creatures like infect,pyromancer/delver,elfs,death&taxes .. yeah gut shot can help i think with bad match up decks

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Originally Posted by 203995014

Yeah Candelabra of Tawnos is a very budget friendly card :p

I'm always confused as to how to use Surgical Extraction against storm. What exactly is my goal when casting this card vs. that archetype? Am I trying to extract their discard spells? Their rituals? Do I cast surgical before or after they combo?

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There are a few more specific situations too:

1. Brainstorm followed by another cantrip. Take out whatever the most valuable card in their yard is. What this really accomplishes, however, is screwing up the draw they just set up with Brainstorm and gives them a random card instead.

2. T1 UB or UR fetchland (esp if you're on the draw). Storm runs a very low land count with a high percentage of fetches. Extracting one early can sometimes slow them down significantly. This one is particularly effective if followed up by Sphere or 3Ball, as it hinders the cantrips they'd rely on to make their land drops. (Note that you'd never, ever want to do this once they have 2 or more lands in play).


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I know I'm arriving late to this train of comments, but here goes:

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Originally Posted by cwcomposer

So I keep getting positively CRUSHED at my LGS by combo decks. Last night I lost to Storm, Elves, and mono-blue Show and Tell / Hive Mind.

Mono green just does not cut it against these decks.

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Having played mono-G, I will say that you can build the deck in a way to make these matchups (first two at least, I have no experience with Hive Mind) acceptable. I maindeck 2 Moment's Peace and sideboard 4 Leyline, 2 Trinisphere, 2 Sphere of Resistance, 3 Surgical. So there are relevant things I can do, I just have to find the hate pieces (I play Ancient Stirrings over GSZ for this reason).

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Originally Posted by Hencules

A combination of Leyline of sanctity, Surgical extraction, crop rotation and warping wail help me through these bad matchups, but they still remain bad.

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This is my experience as well - I think after board the matchup becomes mediocre in that you can beat their reasonable hands with some reasonable draws but still have little game against their best.

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Originally Posted by Rock Lee

Personally I dislike the leyline strategy for G/w. If you are going for hate cards, bears are your best bet, with crop rotate/surgical/faerie macabre holding them off from combo'ing.teeg does work here, but you really want a 2nd bullet, ala thalia/ethersworn canonist. You can also run silence in this slot, or orim's chant.

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I used to dislike Leylines, but changed my mind after getting my bears discarded and decayed. I don't think Thalia et al. can be considered bullets if you can't tutor for them, and even if you could you're looking at dropping them on T3 or later which can easily be too slow. In fact, all our non-Leyline hate pieces come down on T2 or later so the opponent can just discard them beforehand. Leyline prevents that (making it easier to stick the critical second lock piece) while also coming down on T0, preventing the tendrils kill, and being immune to Abrupt Decay.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 203995014

I'm always confused as to how to use Surgical Extraction against storm. What exactly is my goal when casting this card vs. that archetype? Am I trying to extract their discard spells? Their rituals? Do I cast surgical before or after they combo?

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I bring in 3 Surgicals against Storm and have yet to be impressed by them. The best I've managed is to extract Infernal Tutor after they use one to get a second ritual, and I still lost those games (because I didn't find a win con/mulliganed to 4). Honestly, if I didn't have Surgical primarily for other matchups already I would use the sb slot for Thought-Knots and be happier.

@ All the delver feedback. Thanks guys. I've had to take a break from legacy to focus on the SCG invitational "pauper" formats. I should be back to brewing towards the end of the month.

@ CW Composer your list is very similar to mine. I've beat both Elves & storm multiple times G1 with the list. Here are my differences, :

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Originally Posted by cwcomposer

Here's what I'm currently running:

4 Primeval Titan *Ditto*
1 Oracle of Mul Daya *Ditto*
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn *Ditto*
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger *Ditto*
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon *I've gone down to 1 Ugin trying our Emrakool 2.0. You need to make sure that you don't have too top end things.*

3 Sensei's Divining Top *In UG I played 3, I feel like the Game win percentage is exponential with top, I'm always playing 4 in non blue variants.*
3 Pithing Needle *I don't play needle currently, but that makes me slightly weaker to wasteland*
4 Crop Rotation *Ditto*
3 Expedition Map *I've gone down to 2 maps, its slow but efficient.*
4 Warping Wail *I'm at 3 warping wails currently. This is your best card against combo in game 1.*
3 Green Sun's Zenith *Ditto*
2 Candelabra of Tawnos *Currently at 0 Candles. I want to add them back in.*

+4 Thought-Knot Seer. *Provided you don't die on turns 1-2 to combo deck XYZ, this card is bananas.*
+1 Veteran Exploder (Explorer). *Board it out against combo for more hate. Just a minor difference.*
+2 Grapple the Past. *I'm currently figuring out if this card is worth the spots.*

*I'm at 29 total lands maindeck.*
4 Cloudpost *Ditto*
4 Glimmerpost *Ditto*
2 Vesuva *Ditto*
1 Thespian's Stage *Ditto*
4 Forest *I'm running 3.*
2 Savannah *Ditto*
4 Windswept Heath *Ditto*
1 Dryad Arbor *I don't run this card. I don't the reason other than liliana protection.
1 Eye of Ugin *Obv!*
1 Bojuka Bog *I run this card SB, mainly because I can't get it to fit*
1 Maze of Ith *I want to run this somewhere in my 75; but can't find a happy place for it.*
1 Cavern of Souls *I run 2-3 cavern of souls. It's the best land in the deck, next to cloupost/eye.*
1 Glacial Chasm *ditto*
1 Karakas *ditto*
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale *ditto*
+2 Ancient Tombs *These offer accelerated draws and turn 1 warping wails in game 1. Plus you can play top through a daze and spin it on turn 1. Lifeloss is offset by glimmerpost easily. It's also a wasteland magnent from unknown opponents.*

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Originally Posted by cwcomposer

SIDEBOARD:

1 Gaddock Teeg *Ditto*
1 Reclamation Sage *Ditto*
2 Krosan Grip *I've been at 1, I could see the justification for 2.*
2 Rest In Peace *Ditto*
1 Sphere of Resistance *I go from 2-3 spheres of resistance. It's great against all forms of combo.*
1 Nephalia Academy *I haven't test it, but it's my bojuka bog slot.
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Moment's Peace
3 Leyline of Sanctity

My differences aren't much...
-1 Nephalia Academy for Corecive Portal.
-1 Surgical & Krosan Grip for more Sphere of Resistance
-2 Moment's Peace. +2 Ensnaring Bridges, but I think they are flex slots.

Card's I miss:
COP: Red. When this card is GOOD, its insane. It's just so narrow!

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Hey guys I'm new to The Source and 12 Post (just played my first legacy matches today at my LGS) and I was just looking for some advice on my list and definitely mulligans. I can't seem to get down when to mulligan. I'm running a mono green list w/o candles and tabernacle because of budgetary constraints but I think the rest is fairly standard. Here's my list:

25 Nonland, Noncreature Spells
4 Crop Rotation
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Expedition Map
3 Pithing Needle
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

9 Creature
4 Primeval Titan
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

26 Land
6 Forest
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
3 Windswept Heath
2 Vesuva
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Dryad Arbor

SB: 4 Krosan Grip
SB: 3 Warping Wail
SB: 2 Dismember
SB: 2 Relic of Progenitus
SB: 2 Thought-Knot Seer
SB: 1 Mindbreak Trap
SB: 1 Pithing Needle

Are there special deck formatting tools like autocard or something? I don't wanna be doing this wrong :/
Thanks in advance,
treesgobark

Quote:

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Originally Posted by treesgobark

Hey guys I'm new to The Source and 12 Post (just played my first legacy matches today at my LGS) and I was just looking for some advice on my list and definitely mulligans. I can't seem to get down when to mulligan. I'm running a mono green list w/o candles and tabernacle because of budgetary constraints but I think the rest is fairly standard.

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You already know my thoughts on where to go in terms of cards, but in terms of mulligans, your openers are often quite important. Leading Cloudpost blind on the play is generally fine, because even if it immediately eats a Wasteland, it cost your opponent his or her first turn as well. However, if the only other land you have is a Vesuva, this becomes much riskier. On the draw, leading Cloudpost is often a very bad idea, because your opponent can still Wasteland it while still having access to at least one mana. You want to have something to do on early turns: turn 1 Top makes me happy and can really help redeem a lot of questionable hands. If at all possible, leave a green source open to force your opponent to at least respect the possibility of a Crop Rotation: especially since a resolved Crop can get you out of a lot of bad situations. When in doubt, remember that the longer the game goes, the closer your win probability approaches 100%. If you take enough turns, you will win: the question is how many turns is "enough". The primer in this thread also has some useful advice regardless of what color(s) you're playing.

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Are there special deck formatting tools like autocard or something? I don't wanna be doing this wrong :/

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Use (cards) and (/cards) with brackets instead. Quote this post and you can see it if you're still confused: Sorrow's Path

I'm on UG build and had some questions for the experts (still learning!)....

what's the consensus on needle/map maindeck. I've seen a few lists that run them, but also some that don't. I'm currently on 2x of each. What are the merits of cutting them? Is it to shore up the chalice/null rod matchups? Everytime I consider cutting them, some corner case comes up where they're useful. I'd love to put in more interaction in those slots.

also, I live in a Lands-infested area (Baltimore). What are some good strategies/sb cards against Lands?

Are Ensnaring Bridges still being used in sideboards?

I have a Dark Depths in the Tabernacle slot as I don't own one. I like having access to a quick kill but it may be too cute and a wasted slot. Is Maze of Ith an acceptable fill-in for Tabernacle?

I will continue gushing over the Omni's....They've been speeding up my clock by like a turn when I have them. even just putting in an omni->cast titan->post/eye allows you to tutor and cast the big bad the next turn. Is there any cards that could pair well with Omni? I've considered a MB Intuition.

sorry if this is a lot of questions, but this deck gets me stoked.


Thanks!!

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Originally Posted by quantumactivist

I'm on UG build and had some questions for the experts (still learning!)....

what's the consensus on needle/map maindeck. I've seen a few lists that run them, but also some that don't. I'm currently on 2x of each. What are the merits of cutting them? Is it to shore up the chalice/null rod matchups? Everytime I consider cutting them, some corner case comes up where they're useful. I'd love to put in more interaction in those slots.

also, I live in a Lands-infested area (Baltimore). What are some good strategies/sb cards against Lands?

Are Ensnaring Bridges still being used in sideboards?

I have a Dark Depths in the Tabernacle slot as I don't own one. I like having access to a quick kill but it may be too cute and a wasted slot. Is Maze of Ith an acceptable fill-in for Tabernacle?

I will continue gushing over the Omni's....They've been speeding up my clock by like a turn when I have them. even just putting in an omni->cast titan->post/eye allows you to tutor and cast the big bad the next turn. Is there any cards that could pair well with Omni? I've considered a MB Intuition.

sorry if this is a lot of questions, but this deck gets me stoked.


Thanks!!

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Repeal is my all star card for land decks and many other. I'm very big on the card though for so many reasons, but rocks land decks. One blue and their 20/20 is gone and draw card. Also crop rotate for karakas works great too. Lands is a very easy match up. Make sure bog at the right time early game and vesuva copy when need to to keep their graveyard out. Only worry is wastelands and if they can keep reoccurring them. 4 surgical extraction from SB and I target the 1st one. Also does well for thes stage, dark depths, etc. Pithing needle is useful on thespian stage and wasteland maze and karakas. Name the one u need at right time. I run 2 SB.

Maze works. But with U/G not needed and can be a dead land and decrease consistentcy of deck. It's there in mono green and colorless decks since less options than U splash. Very good with candles.

Maps and needles more a choice on deck style wish to play. 4 crops a must and at least 27 lands if don't run maps. It's a more control build setup all around show n tell since the ramp isn't there and wasteland can target u easier. Why I ran EE and other cards in place. You have to deck test and see what fits your playstyle and meta better.

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Originally Posted by TheCorgiKing

Currently testing my R/G brew, don't really have many events in my area to actually get some real games in but my buddy has a few decks proxied up to help me with testing.

My sideboard is kinda all over the place and I'd like to somehow fit Oath of Nissa into the mainboard for Emrakul, but I'd appreciate feedback on the 75

What I have so far:

Lands (26)
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Taiga (3 Taiga/1 Mountain?)
1 Karakas
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Vesuva
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Cavern of Souls
2 Forest
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Mountain
1 Nephalia Academy (testing vs. 2nd Mountain)

Creatures (9)
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion (flex spot)
2 Minna and Denn, Wildborn
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
4 Primeval Titan
1 Emrakul, the Promised End

Spells (25)
4 Crop Rotation
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Candelabra of Tawnos
3 Ugin's Nexus
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
3 Kozilek's Return
3 Warping Wall (or 3 GSZ)
4 Ancient Stirrings
2 Expedition Map
2 Bonfire of the Damned

Sideboard (15)
1x Bojuka Bog
2x Krosan Grip
2x Grafdigger's Cage
2x Splendid Reclamation
4x Surgical Extraction
1x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2x Pyroblast
1x World Breaker

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This looks like my list, how's Bonfire?

Anybody else excited for this card? Selvala's Stampede.

CMC 4GG Card Text: Council's dilemma — Starting with you, each player votes for wild or free. Reveal cards from the top of your library until you reveal a creature card for each wild vote. Put those creature cards onto the battlefield, then shuffle the rest into your library. You may put a permanent card from your hand onto the battlefield for each free vote.

Since all we play are eldrazi or prime times, this could read 6: put two primeval titans or one Eldrazi and one titan into play. Also it says permanent for the "free" vote so you could put an ugin into play potentially. It just seems all around great and an upgrade to Green Sun Zenith. I'm definitely going to try it out since it seems so strong. It does mean unfortunately we would have to stop playing Trinket Mage if we ran Stampede.

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Originally Posted by Ecstatic_Conch

Anybody else excited for this card? Selvala's Stampede.

CMC 4GG Card Text: Council's dilemma — Starting with you, each player votes for wild or free. Reveal cards from the top of your library until you reveal a creature card for each wild vote. Put those creature cards onto the battlefield, then shuffle the rest into your library. You may put a permanent card from your hand onto the battlefield for each free vote.

Since all we play are eldrazi or prime times, this could read 6: put two primeval titans or one Eldrazi and one titan into play. Also it says permanent for the "free" vote so you could put an ugin into play potentially. It just seems all around great and an upgrade to Green Sun Zenith. I'm definitely going to try it out since it seems so strong. It does mean unfortunately we would have to stop playing Trinket Mage if we ran Stampede.

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Should be a lot of fun.

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Originally Posted by Ecstatic_Conch

Anybody else excited for this card? Selvala's Stampede.

CMC 4GG Card Text: Council's dilemma — Starting with you, each player votes for wild or free. Reveal cards from the top of your library until you reveal a creature card for each wild vote. Put those creature cards onto the battlefield, then shuffle the rest into your library. You may put a permanent card from your hand onto the battlefield for each free vote.

Since all we play are eldrazi or prime times, this could read 6: put two primeval titans or one Eldrazi and one titan into play. Also it says permanent for the "free" vote so you could put an ugin into play potentially. It just seems all around great and an upgrade to Green Sun Zenith. I'm definitely going to try it out since it seems so strong. It does mean unfortunately we would have to stop playing Trinket Mage if we ran Stampede.

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Its not a strict upgrade to GSZ, which has many good qualities. You can cast GSZ early in the game to ramp with Dryad Arbor, and it also allows you to get Titan into play with only 1 Green mana available.