Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MTG Junkie
Really wish there was a way to make a Doomsday line good in Wish ANT. Any Wish players ever tried it?
You could run some SDT, one DD and one Meditate (Since you'll usually go IT->DD with top rather than double cantrip piles) over Preordains and an AdN in an UB list. Cut some Petals to play 17ish lands. That way you combine PiF and DD. You can run the other DD's in the board. In my (very limited) testing it was just worse than ANT or DDFT but I still like the concept since AdN is terrible, and SDT can be a really sweet card.
If you meant running DD as a wish target in UBr ANT I don't really think it's great. You need to have some mana, a wish and a cantrip to make it good, Grim Tutor will do the trick in most of these situations too (although the requirements are a bit higher, it doesn't need the cantrip). It also requires playing another dead card MD.
It might also be possible to play a UBr hybrid, but I haven't found a list I liked.
Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamieW89
You could run some SDT, one DD and one Meditate (Since you'll usually go IT->DD with top rather than double cantrip piles) over Preordains and an AdN in an UB list. Cut some Petals to play 17ish lands. That way you combine PiF and DD. You can run the other DD's in the board. In my (very limited) testing it was just worse than ANT or DDFT but I still like the concept since AdN is terrible, and SDT can be a really sweet card.
If you meant running DD as a wish target in UBr ANT I don't really think it's great. You need to have some mana, a wish and a cantrip to make it good, Grim Tutor will do the trick in most of these situations too (although the requirements are a bit higher, it doesn't need the cantrip). It also requires playing another dead card MD.
It might also be possible to play a UBr hybrid, but I haven't found a list I liked.
My train of thought is play a draw 4 spell main, along with a couple of Tops. Play Doomsday over IGG in the board.
(I think Doomsday is a better engine than IGG) So just like the IGG line its there when the situation is right.
Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
What are the pros and cons of naming Infernal Tutor vs. Tendrils of Agony with Meddling Mage? I'm thinking of post-board situations where ANT knows the other player plays Meddling Mage and has boarded accordingly.
Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
akatsuki
What are the pros and cons of naming Infernal Tutor vs. Tendrils of Agony with Meddling Mage? I'm thinking of post-board situations where ANT knows the other player plays Meddling Mage and has boarded accordingly.
ANT also runs EtW ... you are not even required to find a bounce-spell once you get Infernal going aside the fact that you can chain Infernal into Infernal into PIF and flashback both for chain of vapor and ToA
Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
Just mist top 8 of A GPT. lost in round 4 to Shardless BUG getting me 9th,match up is just misrable. Hell id rather play against MUD,at least you can turn 1 them with out worrying about FOW lol.
Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MTG Junkie
Just mist top 8 of A GPT. lost in round 4 to Shardless BUG getting me 9th,match up is just misrable. Hell id rather play against MUD,at least you can turn 1 them with out worrying about FOW lol.
Congrats on 9th either way. For what its worth i found bringing in empty and pithing needles was good against shardless.
Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MTG Junkie
Just mist top 8 of A GPT. lost in round 4 to Shardless BUG getting me 9th,match up is just misrable. Hell id rather play against MUD,at least you can turn 1 them with out worrying about FOW lol.
I played against MUD today and did exactly what you said in game 2- turn 1 kill on the play lol. Lost game 1 to turn 1 chalice on 1, turn 2 chalice for 2. LOL gg. Won game 3 after some draw go.
Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
Just wanted to share a frustrating experience with you guys. I played the Legacy Open in Indy yesterday and wanted to beat my head against the floor until I was dead.
Round 1 was against D&T. Game 1 I probe and don't see a Thalia to screw me up off a Vial, so I Ad Naus in his upkeep for 20 cards, going to 3 life. 0 Rituals, no bounce for the Revoker that will kill me in two swings. GG. Game 2 he boards in 8 cards, opens with Thalia, I nuke it with Dread of Night, and cantrip for two turns until he plays Canonist. I die slowly over the next seven turns because I can't find an answer. Total number of cards he sideboarded: 8.
Round 2 was against Junk. I get a clean kill in game 1, then games 2 and 3 were Thoughtseize, Hymn, double Surgical. Awesome. Total number of cards he sideboarded: 8.
Round 3 was Affinity. I Therapy away two Platings, then die to a 3/3 Ravager when I whiff (again) off a deeeep Ad Naus. Game 2 he opened with Canonist on turn 1, I Wish/Pyroclasm, he plays another, I hard-cast Massacre, then he plays two more. Cool. Game 3 he goes turn 1 Chalice on 1 and I'm like "whatever, no clock here", then double Canonist to shut down my cantrips and Duress-effects, then sealed the deal with Chalice on 2. Total number of cards he sideboarded: 14.
Total number of Storm-specific cards my opponents brought in against me in 3 rounds: 30. Total number of post-board game-wins I got: 0. Percentage of times I whiffed off an Ad Naus: 100%.
My frustration level: infinite.
Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
Hello gregtron!
That's why I sold the deck.
Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
gregtron
Just wanted to share a frustrating experience with you guys. I played the Legacy Open in Indy yesterday and wanted to beat my head against the floor until I was dead.
Round 1 was against D&T. Game 1 I probe and don't see a Thalia to screw me up off a Vial, so I Ad Naus in his upkeep for 20 cards, going to 3 life. 0 Rituals, no bounce for the Revoker that will kill me in two swings. GG. Game 2 he boards in 8 cards, opens with Thalia, I nuke it with Dread of Night, and cantrip for two turns until he plays Canonist. I die slowly over the next seven turns because I can't find an answer. Total number of cards he sideboarded: 8.
Round 2 was against Junk. I get a clean kill in game 1, then games 2 and 3 were Thoughtseize, Hymn, double Surgical. Awesome. Total number of cards he sideboarded: 8.
Round 3 was Affinity. I Therapy away two Platings, then die to a 3/3 Ravager when I whiff (again) off a deeeep Ad Naus. Game 2 he opened with Canonist on turn 1, I Wish/Pyroclasm, he plays another, I hard-cast Massacre, then he plays two more. Cool. Game 3 he goes turn 1 Chalice on 1 and I'm like "whatever, no clock here", then double Canonist to shut down my cantrips and Duress-effects, then sealed the deal with Chalice on 2. Total number of cards he sideboarded: 14.
Total number of Storm-specific cards my opponents brought in against me in 3 rounds: 30. Total number of post-board game-wins I got: 0. Percentage of times I whiffed off an Ad Naus: 100%.
My frustration level: infinite.
Uhmm ... there's a reason people cutted AN in this deck ... Lol. Move it to the SB and board it in against combo or such. This is not an Ad Nauseam Deck anymore
Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
gregtron
Just wanted to share a frustrating experience with you guys. I played the Legacy Open in Indy yesterday and wanted to beat my head against the floor until I was dead.
Round 1 was against D&T. Game 1 I probe and don't see a Thalia to screw me up off a Vial, so I Ad Naus in his upkeep for 20 cards, going to 3 life. 0 Rituals, no bounce for the Revoker that will kill me in two swings. GG. Game 2 he boards in 8 cards, opens with Thalia, I nuke it with Dread of Night, and cantrip for two turns until he plays Canonist. I die slowly over the next seven turns because I can't find an answer. Total number of cards he sideboarded: 8.
Round 2 was against Junk. I get a clean kill in game 1, then games 2 and 3 were Thoughtseize, Hymn, double Surgical. Awesome. Total number of cards he sideboarded: 8.
Round 3 was Affinity. I Therapy away two Platings, then die to a 3/3 Ravager when I whiff (again) off a deeeep Ad Naus. Game 2 he opened with Canonist on turn 1, I Wish/Pyroclasm, he plays another, I hard-cast Massacre, then he plays two more. Cool. Game 3 he goes turn 1 Chalice on 1 and I'm like "whatever, no clock here", then double Canonist to shut down my cantrips and Duress-effects, then sealed the deal with Chalice on 2. Total number of cards he sideboarded: 14.
Total number of Storm-specific cards my opponents brought in against me in 3 rounds: 30. Total number of post-board game-wins I got: 0. Percentage of times I whiffed off an Ad Naus: 100%.
My frustration level: infinite.
What was your decklist? How much mana did you have floating when you Ad Nauseum'ed? I recommend Virtue's Ruin.
Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
th3 w1z4rd
What was your decklist? How much mana did you have floating when you Ad Nauseum'ed? I recommend Virtue's Ruin.
One Ad Naus was in his upkeep, and I untapped with two lands in play and more lands in hand. Another Ad Naus was with BBB floating from an LED, and a Lotus Petal in play.
I run 1 Massacre, 1 Pyroclasm, and 3 Dread of Night, all of which I like more than Ruin. Either way, I don't think a minor sideboard change would have made any difference in any of the matches.
Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
th3 w1z4rd
What was your decklist? How much mana did you have floating when you Ad Nauseum'ed? I recommend Virtue's Ruin.
Oh yeah, decklist
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Past in Flames
1 Burning Wish
4 Infernal Tutor
1 Ad Nauseum
1 Lim-Dul's Vault
3 Cabal Therapy
2 Duress
1 Thoughtseize
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
2 Preordain
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Polluted Delta
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Gemstone Mine
1 Island
1 Swamp
2 Underground Sea
1 Badlands
1 Tropical Island
1 Volcanic Island
SB:
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
1 Duress
1 Pyroclasm
3 Xantid Swarm
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Massacre
3 Dread of Night
1 Bayou
Changes for next time: Move Ad Naus from main to the toilet, probably replace it with Grim. -1 Bayou from sideboard, replace with another sweeper or the 4th Therapy.
Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
gregtron
Just wanted to share a frustrating experience with you guys. I played the Legacy Open in Indy yesterday and wanted to beat my head against the floor until I was dead.
Round 1 was against D&T. Game 1 I probe and don't see a Thalia to screw me up off a Vial, so I Ad Naus in his upkeep for 20 cards, going to 3 life. 0 Rituals, no bounce for the Revoker that will kill me in two swings. GG. Game 2 he boards in 8 cards, opens with Thalia, I nuke it with Dread of Night, and cantrip for two turns until he plays Canonist. I die slowly over the next seven turns because I can't find an answer. Total number of cards he sideboarded: 8.
Round 2 was against Junk. I get a clean kill in game 1, then games 2 and 3 were Thoughtseize, Hymn, double Surgical. Awesome. Total number of cards he sideboarded: 8.
Round 3 was Affinity. I Therapy away two Platings, then die to a 3/3 Ravager when I whiff (again) off a deeeep Ad Naus. Game 2 he opened with Canonist on turn 1, I Wish/Pyroclasm, he plays another, I hard-cast Massacre, then he plays two more. Cool. Game 3 he goes turn 1 Chalice on 1 and I'm like "whatever, no clock here", then double Canonist to shut down my cantrips and Duress-effects, then sealed the deal with Chalice on 2. Total number of cards he sideboarded: 14.
Total number of Storm-specific cards my opponents brought in against me in 3 rounds: 30. Total number of post-board game-wins I got: 0. Percentage of times I whiffed off an Ad Naus: 100%.
My frustration level: infinite.
Sorry to hear about your frustrating experience. We've all been there one time or another. I'll second what Lemnear said, though, about cutting the Ad Nauseam. I've followed patrunkenphat's example and have had a lot of success with an Ad Nauseam-free list. Going 6-0 in a 37 man tournament (standings) and winning a 17 man tournament with 4 rounds top-4 losing only one match along the way. I'm really loving the main deck Empty the Warrens and not running the AN means being able to more comfortably run Thoughtseize and Grim Tutor.
My experience with Ad Nauseam is that you fizzle with it a lot more often than people not playing storm think you do. The only thing I miss (and this is a theoretical miss so far as it has not yet come up) is the top decked, hail-mary type Ad Nauseam where you have a Dark Ritual in hand and three lands in play, staring down a Jund deck or the likes. But the truth is: natural Tendrils > tutor chain into tendrils > Past in Flames into tendrils > Ad Nauseam... it is our least safe, most inconsistent tool for winning. If I had to guess I'd say that I've fizzled (this is from 15+ life) with Ad Nauseam like between 25-30% of the time.
Also, the amount of times I've been able to turn one 10+ goblins or even just flat out winning far outweigh not having the possibility of the occasional turn 1 dark rit, dark rit --> Ad Nauseam.
Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
nevilshute
Sorry to hear about your frustrating experience. We've all been there one time or another. I'll second what Lemnear said, though, about cutting the Ad Nauseam. I've followed patrunkenphat's example and have had a lot of success with an Ad Nauseam-free list. Going 6-0 in a 37 man tournament (standings) and winning a 17 man tournament with 4 rounds top-4 losing only one match along the way. I'm really loving the main deck Empty the Warrens and not running the AN means being able to more comfortably run Thoughtseize and Grim Tutor.
My experience with Ad Nauseam is that you fizzle with it a lot more often than people not playing storm think you do. The only thing I miss (and this is a theoretical miss so far as it has not yet come up) is the top decked, hail-mary type Ad Nauseam where you have a Dark Ritual in hand and three lands in play, staring down a Jund deck or the likes. But the truth is: natural Tendrils > tutor chain into tendrils > Past in Flames into tendrils > Ad Nauseam... it is our least safe, most inconsistent tool for winning. If I had to guess I'd say that I've fizzled (this is from 15+ life) with Ad Nauseam like between 25-30% of the time.
Also, the amount of times I've been able to turn one 10+ goblins or even just flat out winning far outweigh not having the possibility of the occasional turn 1 dark rit, dark rit --> Ad Nauseam.
Yeah, I'm sold on cutting it. I wish I'd listened to you guys two weeks ago, because I've whiffed 3/5 of the last times I've cast it, resulting in a terrible, embarrassing death each time. I guess I need to suck it up and buy a Grim.
Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
gregtron
Oh yeah, decklist
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Past in Flames
1 Burning Wish
4 Infernal Tutor
1 Ad Nauseum
1 Lim-Dul's Vault
3 Cabal Therapy
2 Duress
1 Thoughtseize
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
2 Preordain
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Polluted Delta
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Gemstone Mine
1 Island
1 Swamp
2 Underground Sea
1 Badlands
1 Tropical Island
1 Volcanic Island
SB:
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
1 Duress
1 Pyroclasm
3 Xantid Swarm
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Massacre
3 Dread of Night
1 Bayou
Changes for next time: Move Ad Naus from main to the toilet, probably replace it with Grim. -1 Bayou from sideboard, replace with another sweeper or the 4th Therapy.
Your particular list is built very poorly for ad nauseam- between ldv, thoughtseize, preordain, and burning wish, you're playing every card other than grim tutor that people play in this archetype that isn't good with ad nauseam. I think that ad nauseam is great and irreplaceable, and that by cutting it you're throwing away more games than you would by changing your deck to suit it better.
Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MTG Junkie
Just mist top 8 of A GPT. lost in round 4 to Shardless BUG getting me 9th,match up is just misrable. Hell id rather play against MUD,at least you can turn 1 them with out worrying about FOW lol.
Isn't Shardless a very good matchup for ANT given usually only FoW for counters and discard can be worked around?
Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
gregtron
Oh yeah, decklist
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Past in Flames
1 Burning Wish
4 Infernal Tutor
1 Ad Nauseum
1 Lim-Dul's Vault
3 Cabal Therapy
2 Duress
1 Thoughtseize
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
2 Preordain
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Polluted Delta
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Gemstone Mine
1 Island
1 Swamp
2 Underground Sea
1 Badlands
1 Tropical Island
1 Volcanic Island
SB:
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
1 Duress
1 Pyroclasm
3 Xantid Swarm
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Massacre
3 Dread of Night
1 Bayou
Changes for next time: Move Ad Naus from main to the toilet, probably replace it with Grim. -1 Bayou from sideboard, replace with another sweeper or the 4th Therapy.
Your decklist is simply poor for Ad Nauseum. I run a couple Chrome Mox to help find mana, I run 3 Burning Wish for more possible outs, and no Preordains because that card sucks. Although one time I lost hilariously against Twelvepost because I combo'd out and he Repeal'ed my Chrome Mox in response to Infernal Tutor with hellbent... lol.
Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
davelin
Isn't Shardless a very good matchup for ANT given usually only FoW for counters and discard can be worked around?
Thoughtseaize,Hymn,Deathrite and FOW?!!
Judging by your comment,Im guessing you have no actual exp against it or with Storm in general.
@BrettF thanks man. Iv tryed Needle,just wasnt doing it for me. Im playing Burning Wish with a Empty in the board :)
@Th1wiZard thats whats up ;)
Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MTG Junkie
Thoughtseaize,Hymn,Deathrite and FOW?!!
Judging by your comment,Im guessing you have no actual exp against it or with Storm in general.
I'm not saying this for humblebrags or anything, but are you sure? It's a pretty good match-up for TES.
