Not suggesting the sky is falling or anything of the sort. Just trying to work out what we need to do to adapt effectively to the times we live in atm.
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Not suggesting the sky is falling or anything of the sort. Just trying to work out what we need to do to adapt effectively to the times we live in atm.
@Arianrhod - with regards to midgame plays in the Colorless lists, maybe you want to be putting the Matter Reshapers back in?
Let me suggest something even more radical than cutting a color. Run GSZ as a 1 of. GSZ is a very interesting card in my opinion because I think it's the sort of thing you should either run as a 4 of if there's something you want to spam over and over. But if you have a smaller toolbox I actually think a 1 of is the best number. This has to do with the quirkiness of hypergeometic math which you have to use for calculating deck probabilities. A 1 of has X chance of being hit, but a 2 of isn't a 2X chance of you hitting the card, it's actually only around 1.8X chance. A 4 of is only about twice as likely to be hit as a 1 of (depending on how early in the game you need it) and with our Tops this is even more pronounced. Therefore, the point of diminishing returns is somewhere between 1 and 2 copies of a card in your deck. A single GSZ therefore functions as a second copy of everything in your toolbox while still keeping the deck light weight. If you're only tutoring every couple turns, you don't need more than that.Quote:
Originally Posted by square_two
Edit: I too have been thinking about Lingering Souls but for a different reason. I'm keeping the Contamination idea in the back of my mind and Souls is something that can be cast off of it and feed it.
You've put much more work into this idea than me but I was thinking of something similar yesterday. Contamination and Bitterblossom are enchantments so I was starting to wonder if there's something to it. I was actually looking through a few of the constellation options. Eidolon of Blossoms could be cool as could Underworld Coinsmith and Brain Maggot but I dropped the idea after thinking it's just a bad version of Enchantress. Your idea with Starfield is intriguing though. I don't agree with 4 color but there could be a solid engine in here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulysse95
I am a bit frustrated that is the main idea you derived from my comment. I wasn't saying it in a rhetorical sense. Not insinuating you are fearful for the future of this archetype but more along the lines that we need to work towards change and find our new place in the meta.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arianrhod
Thanks for the suggestion, I might tinker around some with having 3 more slots. The Zenith-able creatures in my list are 1 Arbor, 4 Vet, 1 DRS, 1 Ooze, 1 Tracker, 1 Witness, 1 Sigarda. Sigarda being the big payoff that wrecks sh*t while equipped. Primarily GSZ for an early Vet or a late Sigarda. Actually, cutting 3 GSZ in order to -add- more impactful tutors could be the thing, but I feel they would have to be nearly game-winning options. Gaddock Teeg qualifies.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brael
I'll test -3 GSZ, +1 Teeg, +1 DRS, +1 Glissa. Not sure if Glissa is good because she ensures a trump for ground games, or too win-more since our equipment hopefully already does that. Getting back countered/destroyed equipment sounds nice though. 2nd DRS lessens the need for early GSZ for a Vet.
Edit: Scryb Ranger??
Apologies. That assumption is more based on my mindset the last few days. Between frustrations in real life, with vintage, with my local scene, and with legacy, I haven't been in a good place mentally and have had to work on improving that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardio
Sorry for reflecting that on to you.
I don't take it personally, nor do I assume others don't experience hardship in some form. I want us to positively move forward and evolve the deck properly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arianrhod
I am sorry to hear you are going through hardships and that we didn't meet up at gp charlotte but I understand you will be fine on the other side so push on through.
Expanding on what I mentioned before about cutting a color, here's an attempt at a G/B build, something of a mix between SE Fit and the old Rock builds. Looking at this really makes me question why I ever bother running white.
Lands 22
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
2 Bayou
4 Forest
3 Swamp
1 Dakmor Salvage
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
Creatures 20
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Deathrite Shaman
2 Dark Confidant
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Tireless Tracker
2 Courser of Kruphix
2 Kitchen Finks
1 Eternal Witness
2 Obstinate Baloth
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 The Gitrog Monster
Spells 15
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Slaughter Pact
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Diabolic Edict
Artifact 4
4 Sensei's Divining Top
After building this, I realized there's some pretty neat Dryad Arbor implications with the towers and Gitrog. Might be something good there worth empathizing more. Probably needs some Deeds though, 2-3 of them, not quite sure on the cuts for that yet.
Ill post a Junk blade deck for y'alls consideration, since it does a decent job of crushing Miracles more regularly than Rhinotime. Maybe something to think about.
Dig around for the SE Fit build. It's something none of us wants to play but should be the most consistent build across the board.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paranoid__Android
That's beyond epic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arianrhod
Nice one, we should look into that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barook
Elves! is the best Zenith deck - their Zenith can turn into an "I win"-button (as in cast GSZ -> Craterhoof Behemoth, smash face for 40+). We should be a solid second best though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arianrhod
The main issue seems to be we're running out of advantages. We ramp out in front of the field and ignore Wasteland/Daze, but that's about it. Perhaps this is a good time to look into Summoner's Egg Pod Fit. If dropping Emrakul through a Pod chain in just a turn or 2 with a natural lategame to hardcast Elesh Norn isn't big enough anymore to overwhelm your opponent, I don't know what is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brael
BLASPHEMY!Quote:
Originally Posted by Brael
You run white b/c PtE solved a lot of problems AD doesn't. Removing them and running non-targeted removal, non-exiling removal or 3 mana removal instead, you just create new problems for yourself. You also lose Ethersworn Canonist from your SB, a rather crucial card for an atrocious MU. Oh, and Sigarda.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brael
What problems does Path solve that Diabolic Edict doesn't? The whole point is to create new problems though, preferably problems that are easier to manageQuote:
Originally Posted by Echelon
On the "need moar meatballs" subject: I have been playing with (maindeck) - meren + garruk relentless + tusk lately and definitely the difference is sensible against terminus. In the same list I am (prepare for the heresy, don't insult me) moving ooze to the sb: I mean he dies to everything (plow+ad) and I am one of those who side it in g2-3 against miracles.
Some players (Julian Knaab comes to my mind) main deck ooze in their elves deck, but they can reap its benefits more and faster than we can do: they have tons more G mana, they are full of 1 cmc dudes that will eventually fill the gy..I know it's an heresy but to be honest I would rather have a garruk instead in the md, and know I can rely on ooze against gy decks or creatures/ delver decks..so far I am liking this new configuration, lots of meat aka "must counter this " ( while ooze and meren are just mediocre to bad cards vs karakas stp terminus).
I have been in a very brewy mood lately, because I share the common sentiment that we have to innovate to be able to compete with the top dog of the format.
@Arian, Ricardio: there is a ton of room to innovate/improve rhino time, buckle up and let's work together. No depression allowed as long as our goal is to save cheerleaders etc etc
Anything that has >1 creatures on the board before you get to cast it. Otherwise you first need to AD the small thing to Edict the big thing. Grixis Delver comes to mind, as does Eldrazi. Slaughter Pact can't get rid of anything black or indestructible and costs 3 mana the turn after you cast it. Which leaves Maelstrom Pulse as a worse 3 mana, sorcery speed catch-all that doesn't answer Merit Lage. You'd be better off with Anguished Unmaking, in that regard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brael
Got dirted at the local Legacy weekly. Lost to DnT (couldn't draw black mana), lost to RG Lands (Sorin's ultimate doesn't make flying tokens...aiya), and and won against Infect (barely).
I just felt clunky and behind a bunch of the time. Drawing fatties with no accel, etc. I'll keep grinding, it was only three rounds, so not a ton of practice. Plus, rusty AF.
-Matt
Ive been playing a pw list lately with md 2 pulse, sorin, and vraska as clean answers to jace plus a relentless and im still having trouble pressuring jace after the first fate seal. Im considering ground breaker as a zenithable aproach to burning down a jace, has anyone tried this previously? It may not be a viable solution for what im currently running since im also leaning on e bridge md but it may be an option for my rhino list's single flex slot that is currently back and forth between tusk and tracker.
I believe rubble tried Giant Solifuge at one point.
IMO If you want a zenithable Jace slayer, Giant Solifuge is a better bet than Ground Breaker.Quote:
Originally Posted by uncletiggy
Yes, and I have to agree with Navsi.Quote:
Originally Posted by Echelon
Looking to start anew with the release of eternal masters, particularly now that I realize how much of a bust Modern Abzan Company is for me.
Any new versions that have popped out recently (past year or so for me)?