[Primer] Elves!

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Originally Posted by EEk1TwEEk

Well that's an interesting thought actually. I never considered playing a single Dryad arbor, but now that you've mentioned it, I have even more questions than I did before :smile:
Nevertheless thank you for your advice.

2 Julian: Wow, that sideboard is rather radical ^^

I will think over it, watch some streams, play some games and then I'll write a report here on what did I do and what went terrible wrong :)

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The double Dryad Arbor is actually a fairly recent thing with the deck. When people first started mixing NO Elves with Combo, most people played the second arbor in the sideboard and only brought it in when they were going on the Progenitus plan.

I also can't overstate how clutch Choke has been for me against Miracles. A lot of the hate cards (Cavern, Krosan Grip, Thoughtseize) just ease the load a little by giving us one less card to fight through. With Choke, it puts the miracles player in the position of finding their 1-of Council's Judgment (they usually don't bring in Wear/Tear, at least for game 2) with only basic plains. It can put games away all by itself, which is the kind of power I feel like we need out of our sideboard in the matchup.

I'm also one of the insane people who plays 19 lands. Especially with the new mulligan rules, I'm okay with having to go to six slightly more often in exchange for having fewer mid-game or glimpse-chain flood outs.

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Originally Posted by Capt4in

The double Dryad Arbor is actually a fairly recent thing with the deck.

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*fairly decent
not actually recent at all

19 lands + new mulligan rule is pretty much a combo

Choke is been ok, but generally underwhelming for me vs Miracles. I remember many games where I resolved Choke, sometimes even on turn2, and still ended up losing a long game in which they didn't remove it for a long while.

Also, Miracles has been bringing in 2 Wear // Tear against Elves for over a year by now, which is the reason I earlier this year predicted that the next level to fight them will be Instants, Sorceries, Planeswalkers and Lands. The omnipressence of Wear // Tear (vs Choke, Library, Needles, Null Rod etc) is another reason I'm convinced that Krosan Grip (for Top) and Cavern of Souls are probably the two best tools we have available right now. I wish there was a good Planeswalkers to use against them but thus far I haven't been satisfied with any of the options available.

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Originally Posted by Julian23

Choke is been ok, but generally underwhelming for me vs Miracles. I remember many games where I resolved Choke, sometimes even on turn2, and still ended up losing a long game in which they didn't remove it for a long while.

Also, Miracles has been bringing in 2 Wear // Tear against Elves for over a year by now, which is the reason I earlier this year predicted that the next level to fight them will be Instants, Sorceries, Planeswalkers and Lands. The omnipressence of Wear // Tear (vs Choke, Library, Needles, Null Rod etc) is another reason I'm convinced that Krosan Grip (for Top) and Cavern of Souls are probably the two best tools we have available right now. I wish there was a good Planeswalkers to use against them but thus far I haven't been satisfied with any of the options available.

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Fair enough, maybe I just haven't played the matchup enough. I definitely haven't seen a game 2 Wear//Tear yet, though.

"I think the best sideboard plan against Miracles is to wait until January and cross your fingers for a ban." - Capt4in

EDIT: "If you want hard numbers, the actual plan is 3x Erik Lauer, 2x Please."

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Originally Posted by thefringthing

"I think the best sideboard plan against Miracles is to wait until January and cross your fingers for a ban." - Capt4in

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I don't think that Top (or even Terminus) will be banned, although that would be great.
Playing against Miracles I usually consider my deck as a "midrange". If I don't have a turn-2 kill I try to put 2-3 elves on the board from the start and hit with them, sitting with an abrupt decay in my hand + several other creatures to hit on the other turn. Shaman of the Pact is so good in this game and Ruric-Thar, obviously. Shaman can kill Miracles player even after the combat phase.
Our strength in the match with miracles: Miracles don't interact with our hand and cannot do anything with our lands.
So Cavern of Souls and Pendelhaven is actually perfect in this match.
Also, Miracles have few spells with CMC=3: Vendilion Clique and Monastery Mentor. So even after the Counter+Top lock, Miracles can have hard time countering Shaman of the Pack, Reclamation Sage and Birchlore Rangers for the morph cost.

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Originally Posted by EEk1TwEEk

So even after the Counter+Top lock, Miracles can have hard time countering Shaman of the Pack, Reclamation Sage and Birchlore Rangers for the morph cost.

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Birchlore Rangers morph on the stack will have CC of 0. Does that mean that a revealed land from Counterbalance would counter it?

-this is more of me wanting to know just in case than me trying to correct-

Yes, Counterbalance trigger revealing a land will counter Birchlore Rangers cast for its Morph cost

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Originally Posted by B4L4

Yes, Counterbalance trigger revealing a land will counter Birchlore Rangers cast for its Morph cost

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well, fuck :(

Hy .
Tomorrow i have an invitacional tournment in the north of spain,
And i suspect that the decks that the other players will bring are:
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12...faaf01d628.jpg

Plus a burn, a 4color loam and a shardless bug.

What list would you consider to this tournment?

Thanks

Cavern, KGrip and the midrangey fun stuff all look bonkers for that meta.

New Nissa? So close, but so far...

The -2 nissa's abylity is good!

I wish it was a +1 ability, but I guess that's too much to ask for for a 3 mana PW :-O

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Originally Posted by Julian23

I wish it was a +1 ability, but I guess that's too much to ask for for a 3 mana PW :-O

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Lilliana just couldn't leave nice toys for the other PW.

I always wanted to try Liliana in Elves sideboards, but never got around to.

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Originally Posted by Julian23

I always wanted to try Liliana in Elves sideboards, but never got around to.

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BB feels a bit too heavy for Elves, I think. Combining disruption and removal seems really sweet though.

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Originally Posted by IMarques

New Nissa? So close, but so far...

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Oh a Nissa....always bad...(and she is an Elf...)

Right (and not overpowered) way would be:
+1 Ability no 0/1 useless Plant but a 1/1 creature (Elf would be perfect but Plant is ok, means it can attack/kill something..)

OR

- Ability unless useless counters (think about Terminus etc...), give her an emblem! That way you can cast stuff later and profit even if she is dead (as a 3cc walker would be more than often enough) And that way a 0/1 Plant would also be "ok" as a + Ability...

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Still waiting for a real Walker for Elves...

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Originally Posted by MD.Ghost

Oh a Nissa....always bad...(and she is an Elf...)
- Ability unless useless counters (think about Terminus etc...), give her an emblem! That way you can cast stuff later and profit even if she is dead (as a 3cc walker would be more than often enough) And that way a 0/1 Plant would also be "ok" as a + Ability...

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Gideon costs 4 and his -4 gives an emblem. Probably unreasonable to get it as -2 on a 3CMC walker.

You can make a Jace off two Birchlore Rangers, right? The Brainstorm ability seems good.