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Someone suggested, but no one commented yet: Did anyone tested some Ancient Tomb?Quote:
Originally Posted by jares
I guess 4 Mox may be too much, but 3 Mox + 1-2 Ancient Tomb may be a good way to get good odds of casting T1 CotV, and it quickens Merrow Reejery, Jace, and pumps Coralhelm really fast.
The manabase could be something like:
11-12 Island
3-4 Mutavault
3-4 Wasteland
2 Ancient Tomb
(20 lands total)
3 Chrome Mox
I am finally sold with Jace. -2 Phantasmal Image, +2 Jace, The Mindsculptor.
You need phantasmal image. It helps win games as an adiditonal lord, an additional silvergill, and anything else you need.Quote:
Originally Posted by rnightingale
I like the suggestion of including Ancient Tomb. In fact, that idea makes me think about whether or not Wasteland is still necessary, given that the cards that interact well with it (Cursecatcher, and Aether Vial to a lesser extent) are no longer being used for this version. I haven't done any testing so far, but I'll be sure to look into it when I have the chance.Quote:
Originally Posted by ScatmanX
I also think that some number of Phantasmal Image would surely be helpful. I've personally liked going with just [2x] Merfolk Sovereign to be able to add [2x] Phantasmal Images.
Cheers,
jares
If you use Merfolks without Vial/Daze/Cursecatcher/Wasteland and add Sol Lands and Chalice isn't it just some kind of blue stompy deck. And aren't stompy decks bad? :tongue:
Sometimes, Phantasmal Image is kinda useless too. So i put it back to sideboard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Avatar of Shadow
I know, but there are times that you'll be out of gas. You need Jace to recover your imprinted/pitched blue cards. It's unsummon ability will also help you bounce big threats.
Here's my current build.
Main Deck
19 Lands
11 Island
4 Mutavault
4 Wasteland
21 Creatures
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Coralhelm Commander
4 Merrow Reejerey
4 Merfolk Sovereign
1 Phantasmal Image
2 Planeswalker
2 Jace, The Mindsculptor
7 Artifacts
3 Chrome Mox
4 Chalice of the Void
11 Spells
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
3 Dismember
Sideboard
4 Submerge
3 Hibernation
4 Tormod's Crypt
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Phantasmal Image
I'm not really an expert on the "Stompy" archetype, but it would indeed be similar to a stompy configuration if we go that route (and I also wouldn't go as far as to say that "Stompy" decks are bad :tongue:). The main difference, though, is that, even with the Stompy parts, Merfolk is still able to maintain its inherent Tempo strategy because the Stompy components also provide some acceleration. It's all theoretical as of now, and there's really only one way to find out - test the deck, and see for ourselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by catmint
Cheers,
jares
Has anyone Thought about including cursecatcher and chalice? and then including cavern of souls to get around your own chalice in a pinch.
Hi guys,
My first post here on The Source. I see there has been some discussion about my list, and I would like to comment a bit on some of the card choices and ask for your opinion on some stuff as well.
Chrome Mox vs. Aether Vial: I think both are viable, but I decided to try out the Mox to power out Chalice turn 1 if possible and to speed up the deck in general. So far it has worked pretty well, even though it is occasionally a dead card.
Ancestral vision: As it has already been mentioned, I added the card to have more Turn 1 plays. Even though my testing has been rather limited, it seems like the card is pretty bad as usual, though.
Jace, the Mind Sculptor: Basically Jace was just a test. It seems to have some potential in the deck (both bouncing and brainstorming seems good in general, fateseal/ultimate occasionally), but I am very unsure if he is worth it.
About the card disadvantage from Chrome Mox and Force of Will. For me I can only say that it has worked pretty well so far. I do also pitch FoW to Mox very often, if both are in my opening hand.
Anyway, what are your experiences with the 4th Daze? I have been a bit hesitant of adding it because of the slightly higher curve than I am running now. What about the 4th Chrome Mox? It seems like people are disliking it..
For now I have taken out Ancestral Vision and added the 4th Daze and a single Adaptive Automaton. I am considering running 2 Sower of Temptation in Jace's place to help fight other creature decks, but I am unsure if it is actually effective against something like Maverick. Their creatures are not really strong on our side of the table, but it is still evasive and removes a blocker. Maybe it is time to bring it back? Also, chalice can hopefully protect it to some degree..
I am not a huge fan of Phantasmal Image anymore, since it works against one of the main purposes of chalice, namely blanking their 1cmc removal.. For those running chalice, has this been an issue for you so far?
I would also like to discuss the Sideboard some. As I guess we all know, some of the Green based decks are very difficult for us (Maverick, Nic fit). Submerge has been good for me, and Hibernation seems pretty strong vs. Nic fit. I have not really had the chance to test it thoroughly against Maverick, though. Also, what are people's opinion on Jitte in this match up? It does not fit well with the whole strategy of swinging in while countering/bouncing/removing their guys with the various cards we run for that. It does however, obviously, have some other things going for it... (on this note, if anyone here plays Maverick a lot, would you be up for testing the match up some on MWS one of the days? :P)
About Tormod's Crypt: What do you guys think of that? I usually prefer other cards like Surgical Extraction for graveyard hate, but it seemed to me that Chalice would be good against at least Reanimator and maybe dredge (On the play, atleast), so I went with Crypt..
EDIT: Also, I have considered Phyrexian Metamorph as a 1-2 of in the main (to fill the last spots, for instance to replace Adaptive Automaton) and a 4th dismember either main or sideboard (since this helps a lot vs. creature decks), but the life loss would start to add up. What do you guys think?
It looks like a neat trick, but unfortunately, the inclusion of Cavern of Souls would likely mean less Islands, which would affect Daze, etc. In the worst case, you would get to draw a Cursecatcher at a time when you already have a Chalice of the Void in play but without a Cavern of Souls.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moondancerbb
Kind Regards,
jares
Rather than going the Chalice route, has anyone considered running Brainstorm and Temporal Mastery? Temporal Mastery seems amazing in a deck with Vial, and the clock that Merfolk has.
Hi FinnF,
Great to have you here. As you might have noticed, we've had a few discussions regarding your list that incorporates the use of Chalice of the Void, and it would be wonderful if we could continue to discuss this with you in an effort to revive this archetype.
Come to think of it, these two cards really are comparable, as Aether Vial also has the drawback of being a dead card in the latter stages of the game. I guess that it really becomes a meta call at this point.Quote:
Originally Posted by FinnF
Same here. I've found Ancestral Vision to be underwhelming, and has frequently been a dead card outside of being FoW fodder.Quote:
Originally Posted by FinnF
I've actually tried to cut Jace, the Mind Sculptor from the list, but have eventually come to the conclusion that the versatility and value of the card (especially for its cost) is difficult to match.Quote:
Originally Posted by FinnF
The card disadvantage is part of the price that we have to pay for gaining Tempo. I've rarely found it to be an issue, even with a full set of moxen.Quote:
Originally Posted by FinnF
I've personally really liked running a full set of Daze and Chrome Mox. I guess that these slots can always be treated as flex slots whenever necessary.Quote:
Originally Posted by FinnF
I've also looked into the addition of Sower of Temptation, and have decided to place it on the sideboard for now. There are match-up where this card will surely shine, and I find that it would at least be worth considering as a 2-of in the sideboard.Quote:
Originally Posted by FinnF
Adaptive Automaton sounds like a good fit, especially given that it's colorless. In fact, I'd like to try it for myself - as of now, I can't see a reason why not.
I have been running [2x] Phantasmal Images in place of [2x] Merfolk Sovereigns, and it has not been an issue so far. In fact, my favorite play has been copying Silvergil Adepts!Quote:
Originally Posted by FinnF
I haven't really put too much thought to the SB, but mine currently looks like this:Quote:
Originally Posted by FinnF
- [4x] Faerie Macabre
- [3x] Submerge
- [3x] Flusterstorm
- [2x] Sower of Temptation
- [2x] Umezawa's Jitte
- [1x] Dismember
An avenue that I'm planning to explore is the use of Ancient Tomb in the place of Wasteland. The idea is to maximize the probability of being able to play Chalice of the Void as early as possible, while also providing acceleration for the creatures that we want to use to gain tempo. The obvious issues are the following:
- Increased self-induced life loss
- Less mana disruption
- No protection from opposing Wastelands
So far, I've found that being able to put Jace, the Mind Sculptor a turn (or two) earlier really helps, and I expect to be able to smooth out the curve with the use of Adaptive Automaton. The results have at least been interesting, but only additional testing can confirm if this strategy will be worth applying.
Cheers,
jares
I believe that this has already been discussed somewhat in some of the earlier pages, and the conclusion was that it wasn't a good fit. I personally have not looked into it too much though, so I'll be open to any suggestions on how to make that work. At first glance, maybe we can do this:Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanni
- Out: Chalice of the Void; In: Brainstorm
- Out: Chrome Mox; In: Islands
- Out: Flex Slots; In: Temporal Mastery
Jace, the Mind Sculptor will also surely be able to help with this strategy. The idea doesn't look like a smooth fit as of now though.
Cheers,
jares
Not sure why Jace would be necessary. If you have TM in your opener, you either mulligan if the rest of the hand is weak, or keep it. You have either Brainstorm to fix the hand, or Force of Will to pitch it. Either way, attempting to ramp up to 2UU to drop a Jace doesn't seem like a good fit for traditional Merfolk lists.
Changing the manabase to accommodate Brainstorm isn't really that hard. The U/B list that Saito won GP something (Columbus?) with is a good start, except the deck doesn't need to run duals.
All you're doing is just fitting in 4 Brainstorm and some amount of Temporal Mastery (I'd definitely go with 4 for playtesting purposes and tweak from there). I'm not on the TM hype bandwagon in the slightest, and I think there are only a few decks that would actually gain a worthy enough benefit from it, but Merfolk is one of the prime candidates for it.
I mean, Merfolk as it stands right now needs some sort of major overhaul to become competitive again. Maybe the Chalice route is the change it needs, maybe not. What I do know is that, regardless of how redundant Merfolk is, Brainstorm is still the best card in Legacy, and fitting it into Merfolk isn't a bad idea. TM is really strong when you consider that the extra turn is going to net you an extra land drop, Vial counter, Vial activation, and attack phase. The fact that it cantrips means there is no drawback to casting it even if you can't get maximum advantage out of it for whatever reason. Merfolk is a deck that lives and dies on its tempo advantage, and TM takes that to the next level.
Worst case scenario, it gets stuck in your hand. Best case scenario, it basically wins you the game.
I think it's at least worth playtesting, and by playtesting I mean more than just a handful of games.
I guess that the good thing about this possibility is that, without Chalice of the Void, we get our one-drops back. :tongue:Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanni
Cheers,
jares
Adaptive Automaton is just on the edge in my opinion. Being colorless can possibly make some 1-island hands keepable that would otherwise be marginally unkeepable. The fact that it is an artifact can be troublesome though, since we cannot pitch it to Chrome Mox, which we would sometimes want to, since it is our worst creature. Also, if people see Chalice, they are likely to bring some sort of artifact hate in....Quote:
Originally Posted by jares
Copying Silvergill Adept has always been good. If you have Chalice down, I think it is now in many situations the only good creature to copy, though. Also as I have seen you mention earlier yourself, the deck can sometimes be a bit slow if we do not open with Chrome Mox, so we really want to be able to play our 2 drop on turn 2, which we cannot rely on Phantasmal Image for.. Those are my main concerns, but I might give it some more testing..Quote:
Originally Posted by jares
That is an interesting choice. Let us know how it works out :)Quote:
Originally Posted by jares
I agree with you that Temporal Mastery has some potential in Merfolk decks. If you do decide to play the card in conjunction with Brainstorm and fetchlands, I think you should run a few Underground Seas for some sort of split between Perish and Virtue's Ruin in the sideboard (probably 2/1 or something); possibly also a couple of Dark Confidants main (also paying B for dismember now and then is useful, but that seems less relevant imo).Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanni
M13 has a legendary merfolk. It's not important if it is any good, having any merfolk in the set is. That could mean some good news for us.
Any other data?Quote:
Originally Posted by FANAttIC
Talrand, Sky Summoner 2UU
Legendary Creature - Merfolk Wizard
Whenever you cast and instant or sorcery spell, put a 2/2 blue Drake creature token with flying onto the battlefield.
Seems useless.
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by MiniLuv