The September 20th 2011 Banned / Restricted List Update Reaction Thread

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Originally Posted by Solar Ice

So, that we have different viewpoints = I'm bad at theory/stupid. Very classy.

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I didn't say stupid. I said bad at theory. There are plenty of intelligent Magic players - including most of the people who make a living playing the game - that are bad at theory. Again, most people are bad at theory. I can count the number of people I know or have read that are good at theory on my fingers. But I also took a lot of time pointing out some of the more egregious fallacies.

Watching the SCG Indy, all the MMs seem to be replaced with LEDs :) Someone here have said decks like "Elves" will be viable again since the format is so diverse.. Two turn 1 kills from TES against Elves was something to be seen :) Wonder how long it will take until people start crying to get MM unbanned. Or to get LED/Ad Nauseam banned..

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Originally Posted by bilb_o

Watching the SCG Indy, all the MMs seem to be replaced with LEDs :) Someone here have said decks like "Elves" will be viable again since the format is so diverse.. Two turn 1 kills from TES against Elves was something to be seen :) Wonder how long it will take until people start crying to get MM unbanned. Or to get LED/Ad Nauseam banned..

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LMAO. We have this discussion on the source every time the format shifts. If I had a dollar for every unnecessary call to ban LED we've had on this forum, I would be a fucking millionaire. As soon as storm rises from the grave, a slew of blue tempo decks and/or counterbalance appear to shovel the dirt back on. Immediately after a format shift (in an unstable meta) combo is the best deck. As soon as the meta settles a little bit, blue decks answer it and it fades away. Savvy?

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Originally Posted by Admiral_Arzar

LMAO. We have this discussion on the source every time the format shifts. If I had a dollar for every unnecessary call to ban LED we've had on this forum, I would be a fucking millionaire. As soon as storm rises from the grave, a slew of blue tempo decks and/or counterbalance appear to shovel the dirt back on. Immediately after a format shift (in an unstable meta) combo is the best deck. As soon as the meta settles a little bit, blue decks answer it and it fades away. Savvy?

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- Format shifts due to a new card or a card just banned.

- Combo decks and jank decks grow like weeds in a garden and become rampant.

- Blue decks put the combo decks in check and fight off the bad jank decks.

- Merfolk and Goblins take advantage of the blue decks. Merfolk keeps combo in check and beats on the blue decks while Goblins beats on blue decks and ensures other lame mid-range decks lose.

- Zoo beats on Merfolk and Goblins.

- Metagame settles.

- A new card is printed, which upsets the meta.

- A card is banned or phased out by a new card.

- Format shifts due to a new card or a card just banned.

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Originally Posted by DragoFireheart

- Format shifts due to a new card or a card just banned.

- Combo decks and jank decks grow like weeds in a garden and become rampant.

- Blue decks put the combo decks in check and fight off the bad jank decks.

- Merfolk and Goblins take advantage of the blue decks. Merfolk keeps combo in check and beats on the blue decks while Goblins beats on blue decks and ensures other lame mid-range decks lose.

- Zoo beats on Merfolk and Goblins.

- Metagame settles.

- A new card is printed, which upsets the meta.

- A card is banned or phased out by a new card.

- Format shifts due to a new card or a card just banned.

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Pretty much.

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...y=Indianapolis

Oh look, nothing changed at all except instead of a wealth of midrange decks duking it out in the top16, we have even more combo decks than before. Awesome ban, WotC. :rolleyes:

Time to crack out the counterbalances and sensei's divining tops! But the question is: what colour combination/shell is best? Rug countertop should do fine IMO with grims/snapcasters/bolts holding the fort against tribal.

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Originally Posted by majikal

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...y=Indianapolis

Oh look, nothing changed at all except instead of a wealth of midrange decks duking it out in the top16, we have even more combo decks than before. Awesome ban, WotC. :rolleyes:

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Oh look, 13 different decks in the top 16 and not all of them featuring blue! This format sure sux.

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Originally Posted by Gui

Oh look, 13 different decks in the top 16 and not all of them featuring blue! This format sure sux.

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Iknorite??? Who cares that 10 out of 16 decks are combo decks? We have diversity!

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Originally Posted by majikal

Iknorite??? Who cares that 10 out of 16 decks are combo decks? We have diversity!

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Right, 10! Because Natural Order into Progenitus is not a combo backened up by an aggro-control deck. I know. This is why 10 different combos is way worse than 1.

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Originally Posted by Gui

Oh look, 13 different decks in the top 16 and not all of them featuring blue! This format sure sux.

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Sarcasm? Top 8 is all blue, with 28 brainstorm and 24 FoW. The latest 4 SGC had:

Atlanta: Zoo in T8, Dredge won (dredge is blue but isn't your "typical" blue deck), Maverick as 9th
Cincinnati: Junk 3rd, Zoo 8th (Dredge 7th). Blue Zoo with 4 Brainstorm and 3 MM won.
Baltimore: Aggro loam won, Buried Ooze and Junk in T8.
Denver: the famous Hive mind SGC and the one after that people started to doubt the healtiness of the format. All T8 was blue with AnT Hivemind and even Breakfast in T8.

And all those T8 weren't after a major banning, meaning the meta was more stable and the deck were more filtered out. You also can't really be claiming that things like Belcher and Elves are new powerful decks or archetype that were hated out by MM. Belcher and Elves never made numbers, they're all combo decks that can have a good placement once in a while due to their strong random component, nothing more. Enchantress ironically was better in a MM-dominated format since all its core enchantress cards cost 2 or 3.

It's still very early to say but it looks like that banning MM didn't decrease the blue presence in the format at all, it just killed WU and NoRUG for NoBant and BUG while making random combo decks a better choice and midrange worse.

Just sayin'...

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Originally Posted by Gheizen64

The argument was Mental Misstep pushed blue. If MM were red, it would have pushed blue considerably less, due to the fact being not pitchable to force is pretty big when you already run 3 colors and all.

Not that MM pushed blue imho.

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Originally Posted by Gheizen64

BUG Standstill will also be a real deck after Liliana hit the format imho. In general however control and midrange got shafted pretty hard.

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Originally Posted by ivanpei

Time to crack out the counterbalances and sensei's divining tops! But the question is: what colour combination/shell is best? Rug countertop should do fine IMO with grims/snapcasters/bolts holding the fort against tribal.

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See links.

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Originally Posted by bilb_o

Wonder how long it will take until people start crying to get MM unbanned. Or to get LED/Ad Nauseam banned..

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How long until people start crying to unban Mental Misstep? You must have not read this thread much.

People have been wanting LED banned for years.


That SCG top 16 looked a lot healtier than the last. Right? 15 mid range(no rug & stoneblade) and one quasi combo deck last time.
This one had zoo, combo, mid range, BUG, and even enchantress! Yes diversity is back.

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Originally Posted by joemauer

That SCG top 16 looked a lot healtier than the last. Right? 15 mid range(no rug & stoneblade) and one quasi combo deck last time.
This one had zoo, combo, mid range, BUG, and even enchantress! Yes diversity is back.

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Judging the complete Legacy meta by 2 Events?


Well everything went as expected. Blue is strong as ever and combo is running wild.

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Originally Posted by Humphrey

Well everything went as expected. Blue is strong as ever and combo is running wild.

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As it should be. If you disagree, you shouldn't be playing eternal formats.

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Originally Posted by Admiral_Arzar

As it should be. If you disagree, you shouldn't be playing eternal formats.

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So let me get this straight.

Before it was, play blue or lose to Misstep and this was "not cool."

Now it is, play blue or lose to combo and this is "As it should be."

Well I guess as long as the people playing Zoo and Goblins think they have a chance it is O.K.

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Originally Posted by TooCloseToTheSun

So let me get this straight.

Before it was, play blue or lose to Misstep and this was "not cool."

Now it is, play blue or lose to combo and this is "As it should be."

Well I guess as long as the people playing Zoo and Goblins think they have a chance it is O.K.

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The people playing Zoo or Goblins beat all the blue decks (and sometimes the combo decks). The blue decks beat the combo decks (although not always). The combo decks beat the aggro decks (although not always). Sounds like a pretty healthy format to me. There were just more combo decks than usual because people knew it would be good in an unsettled metagame. With Misstep, blue beat both aggro AND combo with equal dexterity, resulting in "play blue or lose to blue." There was no "or lose to combo" in the equation as combo was generally not viable.

EDIT: People will remember to pack combo hate in their sideboards after this, I'm interested to see the results from the next 5k.

Playing with Zoo against Snapcasters replaying their Stifles and Ghastly Demises is completely ANAL.

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Originally Posted by dsck

Playing with Zoo against Snapcasters replaying their Stifles and Ghastly Demises is completely ANAL.

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Time for Red Blasts in the board again I think...

Snapcaster Mage
Delver of Secrets


- Looks like blue tempo decks just got a whole lot better.