[Deck] Team America (Midrange/Control Thread)

@Kyle - Regarding CA, I found the best way to generate it is, well, without standstills - they were simply lackluster about 70% of the time (and glorious 30%). The deck relies on trading life total for board sweeps, and 2-3 for 1's (unlike the general tempo plan of trading 1 for 1's. Burn is a problem, I'll admit that and if they have a good draw you just lose the game however, no one I know plays burn so I've ignored the deck completely. Albiet, playing tightly with a few Hydroblasts/Chills in the board plus proper hand disruption and saving counters (Liliana shines here) can win some really tough games.

Against Goblins your only chance of winning is with Night of Souls' Betrayal and Darkblast out of the board (or E-Plague if you just need time to stabilize) -- Saving and blowing deed on 3 will win you more games than anything else, the 'only' card you really have to worry about is ringleader.

RE: Cage vs. Spellbomb -- Our deck doesn't have a clock, let's be honest here -- we win the game at the pace of a paraplegic mountain-climbing (or hopefully our opponent scooping) and Cage *Has To* be answered before any graveyard deck wants to go off unlike spellbomb which has to be used (the +1 in CA is fairly irrelevant in something like a dredge matchup. Surgical's are saved for Cabal therapies and narcomebies before anything else. and Snapcasters deal with Ichorids, and lastly bridges (of course this depends on how their graveyard is showing up.

@Mike - Top is a fine card, I just never really found myself in a situation where you NEED TO FIND AN ANSWER ZOMG ASAP. Hold spells that matter, the deck can really, especially now with AD, deal with everything. Flipping a Jace or Force might hurt but... then you get to play a Jace... and you have a Force of will... That's pretty good last I heard.

Here's the list I'll be playing for the foreseeable future:



//Wam!
3 Liliana of the Veil
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Snapcaster Mage

//Bam!
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
3 Spell Pierce
2 Counterspell
1 Life from the Loam
1 Spell Snare

//Thank you Ma'am!
3 Innocent Blood
3 Pernicious Deed
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Ghastly Demise
3 Inquisition of Kozilek

//...lands
4 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea
3 Wasteland
2 Tropical Island
2 Bayou
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Mishra's Factory
1 Swamp
1 Island

//Sideboard - 15
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Flusterstorm
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
1 Darkblast
1 Perish
4 Dark Confidant
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Damnation



Sideboarding generally goes something like this:

Is your opponent playing creatures? Yes?
- 3 Snapcaster Mage
- x Force of Will (Mav -2, Can Thresh - 1, StoneBlade (NOT Miracles) -1)
+ NoSB,
+ Darkblast
+ Perish (if they're green)
+ Damnation
+ Confidants

Is your opponent playing combo?
- 3 Innocent Blood
- 2 Ghastly Demise
- 3 Pernicious Deed
+ 1 Flusterstorm
+ 4 Confidant
+ 2 Clique
+ 1/2 Surgical depending on their build

Is your opponent playing Miracles, like a jerk? -- I repeat, they cannot beat deed
- 3 Innocent Blood
- 2 Ghastly Demise
- 2 Force of Will
+ 4 Confidant
+ 2 Clique
+ 1 Flusterstorm

Graveyard Deck?
-2 Snapcaster Mage
-4 Deed/Decay/Removal/Etc Depending on the deck of course
+ 2 Graffdigger's Cage
+ 2 Surgical Extraction
+2 Clique (For a clock)

If there's anything I can be more specific about, please lemme know.

-Alex

Got 17th at SCG providence with this list

2 Vendilion Clique
3 Snapcaster Mage

3 Pernicious Deed
3 Ancestral Vision
1 Life from the Loam

3 Jace the Mind Sculptor
2 Liliana of the Veil

2 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize

3 Force of Will
2 Spell Pierce
1 Mana Leak
1 Counterspell

1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Ghastly Demise
1 Innocent Blood

4 Brainstorm

1 Island
1 Swamp
4 Polluted Delta
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Wasteland
3 Mishra's Factory
1 Creeping Tar Pit
3 Underground Sea
1 Bayou
3 Tropical Island

SB:
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Perish
1 Damnation
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Krosan Grip
1 Force of Will
1 Darkblast
1 Engineered Plague
1 Duress

Played against an interesting selection of decks. The matchups were:
rd 1 ANT 2-1 (1-0)
rd 2 high tide 2-0 (2-0)
rd 3 valakut 2-1 (3-0) feature match, check archive
rd 4 BUG delver 0-2 (3-1) finished 3rd
rd 5 NO RUG 1-2 (3-2) finished 10th
rd 6 cephalid breakfast 2-0 (4-2)
rd 7 metalworker 2-1 (5-2)
rd 8 UWr miracles 2-1 (6-2)

Some thoughts on the deck:

1) Abrupt Decay is the stones
2) Needs more Jace or more Thoughtseize to win Jace battles
3) Goyfs in the sideboard to bring the deck down to a faster aggro-control deck are A++++
4) Visions are much better than Standstills (sorry Boaz, I still think you should play Visions!)

I think BUG is easily capable of being one of the decks to beat. Abrupt Decay is a great catch-all.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bfeingersh

1) Abrupt Decay is the stones

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Congrats on the finish!

Were you happy with(only) 2 decay in the MD? I'm currently running 2 Decay, 2 Ghastly demise, 3 Innocent blood but I have a lot of creature decks still running rampant in my meta - seems you're tuned towards a bit more of an open field.

If you need another Jace, well - run another jace! Perhaps consider either -1 snapcaster mage or -1 mana leak for the fourth jace, or another thoughtseize.

What do you guys think about Golgari Charm?
It deals with stuff BUG usually has problems with, such as:
Lingering Souls, Sylvan Library, Choke, Elves, Goblins, Dark Confidant, Thalia, Mother of Runes, Counterbalance(sometimes), etc...
It might even hit mongoose or delver early on.
For a 2 mana instant i think it is a very fine addition to either sideboard or main.

Congrats on the finish!

Do you feel that 2 Abrupt Decays is ideal for the main?

I ran this list quite successfully over the weekend through some brawls on MODO:

Land (24)
4 Polluted Delta
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Underground Sea
3 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
2 Mishra's Factory
1 Creeping Tar Pit
3 Wasteland
1 Island
1 Swamp

Spells & Creatures (31)
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
3 Innocent Blood
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Pernicious Deed
4 Force of Will
3 Spell Pierce
1 Counterspell
4 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
2 Life From the Loam
2 Snapcaster Mage

Planeswalkers (5)
2 Liliana of the Veil
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Sideboard (15)
1 Darkblast
1 Perish
1 Damnation
1 Engineered Plague
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Dread of Night
1 Vendilion Clique
2 Thoughtseize
1 Raven's Crime
1 Spell Pierce
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Nihil Spellbomb

I also watched and briefly discussed Feingersh's list over Twitter (thanks for the quick ship btw!), and I'm eager to try out some of his card choices. A few things:

1. Abrupt Decay was, again, the nut. I'm pretty sure there are a reasonable enough number of matchups for me to be running 4 in my 75 - not sure on the split. I liked it so much that I was bringing the Snapcaster Mage in the matchups where it was good.

2. I could see dropping to 1 Loam. There aren't all that many decks right now that are really soft to Wasteland - Goblins, UW Control, and even the Stoneblade deck run a lot of basics. Against RUG, I'd really rather have more business instead of Loam in nearly all cases until I've stabilized, in which case I'm likely already winning.

3. I think Boaz was on Spagnolo's Standstill list here (Buggin' Out), but Standstill seems horrendously positioned. Yes, T1 Land Diamond Standstill on the play is probably unbeatable, but otherwise it seems...not as good. I also think Deed is just better than E.E. most of the time, and I don't like having to cut them because of the non-bo with Mox.

I might try out -1 Loam, -1 Ponder, +2 Visions, just to see how it goes. Might also try -1 Counterspell, +1 Mana Leak for the same reason. Seems very reasonable that most of the time it's just a counterspell that people will run stuff into mistakenly.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by metamet

Congrats on the finish!

Do you feel that 2 Abrupt Decays is ideal for the main?

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I want a 3rd, might be cutting the Ghastly Demise for it. It's much more versatile and perfect for an open metagame like most SCG events are (for something like an invitational I might reconsider). I faced multiple creatureless decks yesterday and I love having more easy answers to counterbalance.

As a longtime proponent of Team America/BUG Control, I am happy to see it becoming competitive again. I'll likely be sleeving this up very soon.

How integral has the Lily + Loam lock been? I used to run Intuition and Raven's Crime before Liliana was around, but does this deck not want any cute stuff going on? :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by metamet

As a longtime proponent of Team America/BUG Control, I am happy to see it becoming competitive again. I'll likely be sleeving this up very soon.

How integral has the Lily + Loam lock been? I used to run Intuition and Raven's Crime before Liliana was around, but does this deck not want any cute stuff going on? :)

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Lili and loam (even lili herself sometimes) will single-handedly win you games outright. Intuition has been notoriously a bit too slow and imo, a bit too cute however, Raven's crime is a fantastic SB card for matchups where lands are less relevant than card advantage.

I'm still on the 3 Lili 1 Loam package, other's have gone down to 2 lili, up to you - but I wouldn't go below 2.

-Alex

2 loam feels heavy, why not run Sylvan library?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by csy

2 loam feels heavy, why not run Sylvan library?

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Pernicious deed.

Loam is CA (also, interactions with Jace, Wasteland, Liliana, Raven's crime, etc), also most control decks also can't afford to use their life total as a resource.

The Lily + Loam hard lock is generally win-more. She's incredible on her own and like Jace, if you're already ahead when you cast her you've basically won the game.

I placed 29th at Providence this weekend with BUG going 5-2-1, losing to burn and UW Stoneforge (loose keep game 2, mull to 5 on the play game 3), and drawing with RUG Delver. The draw was only because of poor play on my part, RUG is an excellent matchup.

List:

2 x Snapcaster Mage

3 x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 x Liliana of the Veil

2 x Pernicious Deed
4 x Standstill

4 x Brainstorm
4 x Force of Will
3 x Spell Pierce
2 x Counterspell
4 x Abrupt Decay
3 x Innocent Blood
1 x Ghastly Demise
1 x Life from the Loam

4 x Underground Sea
2 x Tropical Island
1 x Bayou
3 x Polluted Delta
2 x Verdant Catacombs
2 x Misty Rainforest
1 x Swamp
1 x Island
1 x Forest
4 x Mishra's Factory
3 x Wasteland

SB:
2 x Tarmogoyf
2 x Vendilion Clique
3 x Thoughtseize
2 x Nihil Spellbomb
2 x Extirpate
1 x Perish
1 x Virtue's Ruin
1 x Damnation
1 x Engineered Explosives


As others have said, Decay was amazing in an open meta. Having the option to board into an aggro-control deck is a must unless you know there won't be any combo at a tournament. I boarded out Standstill on the draw in almost every match and will be testing Visions when I get a chance. Immediate changes I plan on making to the maindeck:

-1 Snapcaster Mage
-1 Ghastly Demise
-1 Counterspell
-1 Standstill
+1 Darkblast
+1 Jace
+2 Thoughtseize

BUG of some form is what I always want to be playing in Legacy so I'm very happy to see it performing well again. Decay feels a lot like Misstep in that it slows down the game with some level of certainty, which is a amazing when you want to get to 4+ mana every game.

Best,
Jim

Usually I default to a BUG control list with a slant towards aggro-control, but this weekend I'm playing in a tournament where I expect a lot of Team America, RUG and grindy control decks. Because of the tempo in the room, I don't fear combo as much, but would like to make a list that beats tempodecks and the "mirror".

4 Ancestral Vision
4 Jace
2 Liliana
2 Loam
4 Innocent Blood
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Force of Will
2 Spell Pierce
1 Counterspell
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Inq of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
4 Brainstorm

24 lands:
3 U. Sea
2 Trop
2 Bayou
2 Island
1 Swamp
1 Forest
8 fetch
2 Creeping Tar Pit
3 Wasteland

SB:
4 Dark Confidant
2 V. Clique
3 Surgical E.
3 Kitchen Finks
2 P. Deed
1 E. Explosives

Points:
Should I find room for something instead of the 24th land?
Why am I the "only" one running the full set Innocent Bloods? Blood/Decay seems like the best combination of spotremoval, no?
Other thoughts?

Bob goes in against control and combo. I expect some number of red decks, which is the meta-reason for the Finks.

Thanks!

Posted this in salvation but garnered no replies so here is my current decklist:

4 Polluted delta
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Verdant Catacomb
3 Underground Sea
3 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
3 Wasteland
2 Mishra's Factory
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Island
1 Swamp

2 Snapcaster mage
1 Vendilion Clique

3 Force of Will
2 Spell Pierce
2 Counterspell
3 Abrupt decay
4 Brainstorm

3 Innocent Blood
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Thoughtseize
1 Damnation
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Life from the loam

3 Sensei's Divining top

3 Pernicious deed

2 Liliana of the Veil
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Feel free to critique my decklist

I think top is really good in a grindy deck like ours as it gives us many answers and consistency, I will just bounce top back to library after deed blows and re-cast it next turn

I feel like squeezing one more copy of clique in there as it has helped me a lot against mirror/control and even combo matchups but I can't figure out what to remove. There is this deck at my metagame lately that I find it real hard to win against. They play veteran explorers, cabal therapy, ramping into Karn, Primeval Titan or Thragtusk. Not sure if its rock or nic fit. Any good advice?

Nic Fit can't beat a Jace, but if the pilot is good, you'll have a hard time resolving it in the first place. You have to be able to board into some kind of reasonable clock against 'em cause they want to take it the long game just as badly as you do -- although they only have a few bombs they can resolve/recur. The list looks fine although I'm not sure why people are still running Pulse MD and/or Damnation when we now have ghastly demise, deed, lili, innocent blood, and abrupt decay to deal with creatures. They're fine in the board, but MD? Really?

(On a second read, if you're playing in a field against Nic Fit - Pulse takes precedence over Damnation)

@Mike1987: What's your sideboard?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chikenbok

Nic Fit can't beat a Jace, but if the pilot is good, you'll have a hard time resolving it in the first place. You have to be able to board into some kind of reasonable clock against 'em cause they want to take it the long game just as badly as you do -- although they only have a few bombs they can resolve/recur. The list looks fine although I'm not sure why people are still running Pulse MD and/or Damnation when we now have ghastly demise, deed, lili, innocent blood, and abrupt decay to deal with creatures. They're fine in the board, but MD? Really?

(On a second read, if you're playing in a field against Nic Fit - Pulse takes precedence over Damnation)

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I am playing pulse cause i realise BUG control has problems dealing with planeswalker. Nic fit/rock has lots of irritating planeswalker to deal with. Be it liliana or karn. Plus U/W miracles, stoneblade all play Jace which is outside decay range, thats when maelstrom pulse comes in handy. At worst, it is a sorcery speed creature removal. It even hoses entreat the angels. Damnation is due to my metagame of merfolk, rock, maverick, junk, rug delver(lots of creature based decks).

@Valarne my sideboard consists of

1 Life from the loam
2 Krosan Grip
1 Raven's crime
2 Thoughtseize
2 Perish
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Hydroblast
1 Blue elemental blast
1 Vendillion clique
1 Spell pierce
1 Flusterstorm

After a brief affair with other archetypes (egad!) I'm back on the BUG "Creatureless" Control track - and I think I've officially found my way back home.

Looking over the more recent deck posts, it's starting to look like this deck has an official "Core" now! -

//Planeswalkers (6)
3 Liliana of the Veil
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

//Creatures (2-3)
2-3 Snapcaster Mage

//Instants (17-19)
3-4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
3 Spell Pierce
2 Counterspell
1-2 Life from the Loam
2-3 Abrupt Decay
2 Ghastly Demise

//Sorceries (6)
3 Innocent Blood
3 Inquisition of Kozilek / Thoughtseize mix

//Enchantments (3)
3 Pernicious Deed

//Lands (21-23)
8 Fetches
1 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Mishra's Factory
2-3 Wasteland
6-7 Duals
2-3 Basics

34-37 in the Core
21-23 Lands

Leaves mayyyybe 5 cards max for wiggle room. Here, I think, are the best wiggle/utility cards:

Damnation
I loves me a maindeck Damnation - great against any swarm deck and can completely shut down a Gobbo deck if timed right.

Maelstrom Pulse
Great if Stoneblade or Miracles are heavy in your meta. I'm running one and love it.

Standstill
I love Standstill, and if you want to generate a nice temporary lockdown while you sculpt a hand of counters while your opponent incorrectly does nothing, Standstill is your card. It's a fun card, but don't cast one without having a Mishra's Factory or Creeping Tar Pit coming up.

Ponder
Need digging, filtering, shuffling for a durdly deck and another blue source to pitch to FoW? Yup. I personally like it for the shuffle effect, as midgame topdecks into lands lands lands can suck balls.

Diabolic Edict
Sometimes you really need an instant-speed kill-spell for non-targetables (I'm looking at you Emrakul). Not that you'll always resolve it, but as a 1-of it could be nice.

Sensei's Divining Top
More digging. Haven't tried it yet, but it seems 2-of could really help through some tough times. This deck tends to be pretty good on running mana-heavy, which is totally necessary for Top.

On a completely different note regarding sideboard choices, I found that Night of Souls' Betrayal is completely pointless and I'd rather be running Engineered Plague, mostly because you can have two of them in play and it costs 1 mana less. The only time I can think of Night of Souls' Betrayal being better is against... Aggro Zombies? What am I missing? Considering how plagued (no pun intended) the meta is with Goblins, Engineered Plague seems strictly better and Night of Souls' Betrayal is a clunky alternative.

First off, welcome back home.


The deck NEEEEEEEEDS 23 lands at a minimun, although I thoroughly enjoyed the rest of the breakdown. I've been playing with 3 snapcasters for a while now and have been considering going back down to 2 to add either a single ponder or a single something (not sure what yet). I've been testing with 2 Abrupt decays but perhaps a third is in order as well, it is pretty dope.

With 22 lands 9-fetch I am still getting mana flooded often :confused: