[Deck] Jund

Hi guys!
Sunday will participate in the Grand Prix to be held in Rimini and which deck to bring if not the jund?

I'm leaving now with the list that then I will analyze:



Lands: 23

3 wasteland
1 swamp
1 forest
4 bloodstaire mire
3 Wooded Foothills
1 Verdant catacomb
3 badlands
3 bayou
4 grove of the burnwillows


4 Creatures: 16
4 Bloodbraid elf
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
4 Deathride shaman

4 Planswalker: 4

4 Liliana of the Veil

4 sorceries: 7

4 Thoughtseize
3 Hymn to Tourach

3 Istants: 8

4 Abrupt decay
4 punishing fire

4 Enchantaments: 2

2 Sylvan Library

SIDEBOARD:

2 Duress
2 surgical extraction
1 slaughter games
2 engineered plague
2 phiting needle
2 Krosan grip
3 red elemental blast
1 pernicious deed





LANDS: I would say that up there we all agree, it's already been a while that this combinzione of land uses having regard to its stability, apart from a few who prefer 1x taiga to protect themselves from overwork on the bayou but I personally do not scares so much!

CREATURES: Here, too, everything is normal except the taboo of the fourth elf, for as I see it is certainly not that slime in more or less quell'elfa you change the match, but since I want to be as aggressive as possible against aggro I keep strict control and the fourth elf!

Planeswalkers: I would say that with the new rule has officially become the final 4x, there is no more excuse that he may judge for giocarne 3!

Sorceries: Seize not discussed, however hymn 3 is the right number because it is situational to the deck, I do not ever want to see because usually the second round is always an alternative!

ISTANTS:
Here I came to this configuration after you have tried the configuration with lightning 3 3 3 decay punishing and also the one with lightning 2 3 4 decay and punishing, in my opinion 4 4 decay and fire are great, they help us to keep the field clean and earn a slot for ..

The second sylvan library! between confidants and sylvan we have 6 cards that make us do monstrous and benefit from what I've been able to test, only the library makes us take home MU complicated as maverick even though he partly strong, play 1x of this paper is too little and waiver volentierissimo a lightning strike for a bomb like that!

SIDE: Here logically is always personal because it always depends on the goal that we have to deal with, but with a good side so you're a little bit of everything!

Analyzed my 2 cents I wanted to know what you think! advice and criticism are welcome ;)

Not having Lightning Bolts will make it a problem vs. Delver decks. Also it reduces your range quite a bit.

I don't think I could ever cut a single one.

You are not playing any basic mountains. Why have 4 Bloodstained Mire and 3 Wooded Foothills but only 1 Verdant Catacombs? Any fetch will get any of your duals, but only catacombs grab your both basics...

I really like second library, though I am more inclined to play it over 4th Liliana, than 9th instant.

Let us know in detail how did the singleton Slaughter Games perform for you.

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Not having Lightning Bolts will make it a problem vs. Delver decks. Also it reduces your range quite a bit.

I don't think I could ever cut a single one.

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it is true what you say in fact I thought so to fix the main deck:

-1 BBE -1 Abrupt Decay +2 Bolts

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You are not playing any basic mountains. Why have 4 Bloodstained Mire and 3 Wooded Foothills but only 1 Verdant Catacombs? Any fetch will get any of your duals, but only catacombs grab your both basics...

I really like second library, though I am more inclined to play it over 4th Liliana, than 9th instant.

Let us know in detail how did the singleton Slaughter Games perform for you.

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Only for a problem of lack of them, in fact I will try to bring me :)
2 slaughter were too many for me! you say you should be in 2x?

No, I ask about Slaughter Games, because I am not sure how good it is.

If you remove one of the Abrupt Decays I would consider replacing one of the Krosan Grips in the side with the fourth Abrupt Decay. What are you boarding in Krosan Grips against anyway? Sneak Attack?

If you're representing :2::g: I think smart Sneak Attack players wont open up holes in priority between resolving their Sneak Attack and activating it. The only opposing card that I think Krosan Grip has a real jump on is Batterskull. For most Artifacts and Enchantments I would prefer Nature's Claim's lower converted mana cost.

The fetchland configuration is definitely wrong. Verdant Catacombs is a definite 4-off and Bloodstained Mire is a better pick than Wooded Foothills. So the right numbers would be either 4-4, 4-3-2 or 4-4-1 based on the amount of fechlands you want to run.

I wouldn't play less than four Lilianas. She's just too good to be replaced with something, besides, there already are two flex slots in Punishing Jund (4th Punishing Fire and S.L. in spector's list assuming one Abrupt Decay and one Bloodbraid Elf are replaced with Lightning Bolts). I'm not a huge fan of four Punishing Fires myself because it's pretty weak unless you manage to draw and keep Grove of the Burnwillows on board, but it's optional, I guess.

Krosan Grip is a good answer to Omni-Tell as well as Batterskull and handful of other cards, so it's okay to pack some. But Slaughter Games is a really bad choice. Its mana cost is too big to make it effective and other cards are in fact better in most situations.

I'm more of a supporter of Seal of Primordium in Jund over both Nature's Claim and Krosan Grip due to the reduced possibility of a bad Cascade with Bloodbraid Elf. At least if you Cascade into a Seal it sticks around if there are no Artifacts or Enchantments in play at the time, also Goyfs generally like the fact that Seal, itself, is an Enchantment too.

Seal of Primordium does sound awesome, improving cascade chanses even a little.

I do not know where I could fit in Seal of Primordium, but it is a great idea.

I usually run a 1-of Ancient Grudge, and I seem to anecdotal-ly draw it whenever I need it, and Seal could serve the same function. But what to take out?

I played in a local tournament tonight and thought I would post my results. this is my deck for reference.
60main / 15 sideboard
Creatures:15
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Bloodbraid Elf
Spells:22
3 Lightning Bolt
4 Thoughtseize
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Hymn to Tourach
3 Punishing Fire
1 Sylvan Library
4 Liliana of the Veil
1 Maelstrom Pulse
Lands:23 3 Badlands
2 Bayou
3 Bloodstained Mire
1 Forest
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Wasteland
2 Wooded Foothills
Sideboard:15
3 Duress
3 Pyroblast
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Ancient Grudge
3 Engineered plague / I wanted to test pyroclasm but they are at a friends house so I decide to keep plague
1 Choke

Match 1 Lands depths combo/punishing fire
He won the roll, decide to keep a hand with decay 2bob 4 lands. He almost empties his hand Land, mox, exploration, ghost quarter pass. I play a fetch and pass. He spends his turn getting a crucible on line then he passes after making me get a swamp with ghost. I play a land then get a forest to decay crucible. I land bobs and he can't recover in time. 1/0 g2 -3 hym - 2 thoughtsese +3 surgical +2 ancient grudge I keep a hand with goyf and surgical ect. I keep 7 he keeps 7 and does a similar play mox, exploration, land, waste, pass. I lay fetch pass he wastes my fetch I get swamp he Loams ect. 1 mana open and 2 cards in hand, I hope he doesn't have the cycle land. eot surgical loam and it works he then gets punishing going but it is not enough 2/0

Match 2 Storm he won the roll and I keep a hand with waste bolt bob goyf and lands not knowing what he is playing. He lays down a underground sea and passes. I waste, pass. He has plays nothing discards burning wish now I know he's on storm. so I lay goyf and try to get in as much as I can. He goes off at the last second he can then wins. 0/1 g2 -3 bloodbraid -3punish -3 decay -sylvan - pulse +3 duress +3 pyro +3 surgical +2 e plague I mull to 6 because of no land keep a hand with thoughtseize, surgical, 2 land goyf. I thoughtseize and take led and he has 2 chain vapor, dark rit, and cabal rit left in hand. I surgical led and end up getting there with goyfs and bobs. 1/1 g3 he thinks over his hand and I act like I'm doing the same but I have the nuts!!! I have thoughtseize, surgical, hym, liliana, and at least 2 lands maybe 3. He plays island and passes. I thoughtseize hit a infernal tutor. He has led, cabal, dark rit, gemstone, fetch. I surgical infernal getting 2 total thinking he had 4 so he could chain them. Then I hym followed by liliana +1 the rest of the game until I hit deathrite and ping him until I won!!! 2/0 start against 2 decks I don't want to see.

Match 3 idk what he is on but he knows what I'm playing but I don't know his. I win the roll and keep a hand with thoughtsese, badlands, fetch, goyf, bob, liliana, and punishing fire. I fire thoughtseize and see 2 swords, stifle, ponder, waste, 2 fetch. I think about it for a bit because I want to take the ponder so can't see/plan the next couple of hands. But then he has waste stifle and can keep my lands locked down. I don't know what the best decision is and decide to take stifle. He wastes then passes. I peel a grove lay the fetch crack and get swamp so I can have all my mana and play around stifle. He lays a land and ponders. I lay a land then bob. He lays a land then swords. I am stuck at 2 land and play goyf. He lays a land and then stoneforge for batter skull. I lay bayou and punish stone with him taped out. He finds a Geist of the Traft then I find liliana I cast it resolves!!! Sac no he has stifle!! (Damn). I pass he swings at lili and me. I get a bloodbraid and pass. I'm hoping for a land because I'm dead in 2 turns. I get one it resolves and so does the cascade and I hit a liliana!!!! Only to have it spell spell pierced. I leave up elf to block but he finds removal and wins. 0/1 g2 -3 hym -2decay -1waste +1 choke +3 pyro +2 ancient grudge( I don't know if this is right but it's what I tried I think I should have left in decay and took out bolts/ maybe leave in waste). I have to mull down to 5 because of 1 land hands. I end up keeping with fetch deathrite, choke, liliana, and punishing fire. He blots the deathrite and I don't get lands till late. He uses daze on liliana after I'm at 8 from a Geist.

I dropped after that because it was getting late and I had plans. I wish I had bought some more pyroclasm or rough and tumble to test out before the tourney I just didn't want to buy more of the same cards I have. I don't like how pyroclasm kill all of our guys but I think it might be good if played at the right time!! I comes in a turn earlier than plauge and that can be the difference against elves. Plauge hits elves but wire wood stays, also can take down mirran crusader and mom at the same time!!! Where plauge can't. Not to mention Geist/mongoose (without thresh) which can be annoying. Idk these are just some thoughts I have had if anyone has tested pyroclasm I would like to hear your results!! Also if anyone has a different sb strategy/ cards they use to play against the decks to beat, or different lines of play that they would have done/ do to beat curtain cards(deathblade/ UWR delver Geist) it would be great to see your strategy!!!!!! I'm going to scg mn this weekend and and trying to get prepared!!! Thanks for reading and for any tips you post!!!

I used to run Seal of Primordium/Cleasing in my Zoo, it's a nice one to drop vs Show and Tell omni/sneak matchups. I don't currently use it right now on Jund though since I already run Deed/Pulse/Krosan one ofs - plus reb, in that regard agains SnT.

I need some suggestions about sylvan library vs sensei's divining top. wich is better in our jund decks?

The library is for sure free in each draw phase and you can draw more cards paying life, but I think Sensei can offer more opportunities during the game, for example:

- with a fetch you can see up to 6 cards, and in a mid range match the mana cost couldn't be a problem....
- you can draw one more card if necesary
- you can save the sensei swapping the sensei with the first card of the deck (also when you are using a pernicious deed after side)
- the sinergies with dark confidant are avaylable immediatly

I have 2 Sensei in my deck and it works well, but what do you think? I'm loosing something relevant? and what about having 1 sensei + 1 library? could be useful....or not?

thank you

I don't like top as much as sylvan, because I am tapping out most turns. It does add to the turn 1 plays that we are low on but t2 you are almost always tapping out for goyf/bob/fire/hym. Then t3 liliana, maybe a top activation if you have another 2 drop. But then on t4 bloodbraid, and this is if you have all your mana and not aggressively wastelanding/useing deathrite to ping life. I like to be the aggressor with jund and don't want to durdle around. So tapping for top does not work for me but its a great card and you should test it for your self and play style.

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Originally Posted by tartashark

I need some suggestions about sylvan library vs sensei's divining top. wich is better in our jund decks?

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I believe Library is quite a bit better. Not having to commit further mana to the card selection is a huge benefit. The deck already runs a heavy curve and has multiple engines in sink mana into - Deathrite, Punishing Fire.

recent scg open had a jund list go top 4. :) dude was running a full set of BBEs and hymns. mb loam, and only 3 lilis. thoughts? :) i like how his sb was mainly non-reactive cards too.

I think Top is much better than Library. There are so many reasons...

I'll try to name just a few:
- you don't want to pay 4, 8 or more life, since you play 4 Confidants, too
- Top has protection from removal
- Top has immediate effect, when it enters the battlefield in mid or lategame
- Top finds urgent answers better than Library (fetch, look again.)
- Top protects you from Confidant damage
- Top is better vs Jace's level up
- you have much more important 2-drops
- additional handcard in opponent's turn to play around discard

Most people argue with "Library doesn't cost additional mana later".
I almost never had a problem with that. If your spells in hand are good enough and you don't have enough mana to spin the Top this turn, never mind. It's true that you won't use your Top in the very first turns, but if there is no need to that's fine!
But at least it's good in some match ups to play around daze and look in top after spells resolved.

I played Jund for the last 5 tournaments and I was quite satisfied with my list.
The results: 3-1-0, 7-0-0, 3-0-1, 4-0-1, 4-1-1

Lost 2x against Elfball, drawed with Deathblade, Rug Delver and Maverick.

How do you like the Elfball match up, and what can we do to upgrade this match up?

Here is my list:

4 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Wooded Foothills
3 Bloodstained Mire
3 Wasteland
3 Badlands
2 Bayou
1 Forest
1 Swamp

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Bloodbraid Elf

2 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Lightning Bolt
3 Punishing Fire
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Liliana of the Veil

Sideboard
3 Red Elemental Blast
3 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Thoughtseize
2 Engineered Plague
2 Nature's Claim

Best Regards!

I dunno, how do you like Kozilek in favor of Thoughtseize? I mean, IoK can discard up to mana cost 3, while the same card can be later destroyed by A.Decay. That said, you can't discard heavies with IoK. What gives?

The 2-2 splitt is ok, I think, because lifeloss can be very relevant in agressive match ups like canadian.
There are not that many cards with cc4 or greater you MUST hit.
You still have Hymns, Lilianas and one Pulse to prohibit these cards.
Even though there is 1 matchup where I board 2 Inquisitions vs 2 Thoughtseize: Esper/Death Blade.

thank you Lighning Bebbi for your answer about top vs library. my list is very similar, I play less discard than you, and I have some different cards in side

here my list

4 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Wooded Foothills
3 Bloodstained Mire
3 Wasteland
3 Badlands
2 Bayou
1 Forest
1 Swamp

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Bloodbraid Elf

2 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Lightning Bolt
3 Punishing Fire
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Thoughtseize
3 Hymn to Tourach
4 Liliana of the Veil (with new rules she's great....if possible, more than in the past)

Sideboard
2 Red Elemental Blast (against blu decks)
1 Pyroblast ( ")
2 Duress (against combo, burn, s&t, ...)
1 Hymn to Tourach (")
2 Surgical Extraction (combo, s&t, ...)
2 Pernicious Deed (miracle, aggro, elves, goblins, merkfolks,...)
1 Engineered Explosives (")
1 Grafdigger's Cage (elves, reanimator,..)
1 Ancient Grudge (mud, tezzeret, equipments, ..)
1 Scavenging Ooze (reanimator, burn, aggro, ...)
1 Maelstrom Pulse (agaist cards with mana cost over 3)

I would like to put a Umezawa's Jitte in my side....probably instead of the Hymn to tourach....