So far, it was not needed indeed...Quote:
Originally Posted by egosum
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So far, it was not needed indeed...Quote:
Originally Posted by egosum
First of all, i don't agree that Mind ver Matter is good here. It makes the deck clumsy andi don't see why we would need it. If we can resolve a Time Spiral in our Combo, that pretty much is the win. Why would we need Mind over Matter?
Please explain that ....
I`ll have to test this further, but so far running Nature's Lore , 4 tropical Island and 2 breeding pool in the UG list has been giving me promising results.
True, but you're also basing assumptions on a format that did not run Time Spiral as the primary protocol for a win condition. Candelabra does not functionally act similar to Snap or Cloud of Faeries because Candelabra is more permanent-based utility and doesn't require the additional casting of a creature or miscellaneous "claused-in" untap ability to be effective. It costs cheaper, and you're realistically not going to activate it unless you really need to at the point of casting a High Tide, in which case, casting a spell at that point becomes riskier each subsequent time. Mathematically they may be on par, but we're talking about situational Magic here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gocho
Most people are going to let a turn one Candelabra resolve. Most people are not however going to let a Cloud of Faeries or Snap resolve after you've cast High Tide, only to cripple your capability of untapping your resources in the event of an incapacitated mana count. An opponent should counter or stop High Tide in its tracks, but assuming we're basing our presumptions on a lower land count (say, three or four), then the card that ultimately untaps your resources becomes the key to securing the victory.
A clever opponent may want to try and nab some card advantage before dedicating their first counter to your first spell.
Also, this archetype needs more Xantid Swarm. It couldn't hurt to test it out.
Since the unban of Time Spiral I wanted to look into this deck. I see allot of talk about Explore and other green cards.
Can somebody explain me what is the use of Explore in the deck and what is the correct way to use the card in Spring Tide?
Quote:
Originally Posted by sporenfrosch1411
Because Mind over Matter makes Candelabra insane, which so happens that Mind over Matter works decent with Time Spiral, and Candelabra Spring Tide is something that's been abandoned in the pre-Time Spiral era. Mind Over Matter was already decent pre-Time Spiral, it just wasn't fast enough or worth it. With Time Spiral, you not only dig into it easily, but you don't necessarily need it, but if you do draw it, you will hardly be able to fizzle from an manasource perspective. Who knows if it's good, but it's definitely worth exploring since no one knows for sure what a post-Time-Spiral Spring Tide list would function. Might be powerful, might be bad. But in all honesty, I can only see good things with Time Spiral. Whether it pushes Spring Tide to tier 1, that's another question, and is what the thread discussion is trying to figure out.
But you're right, Mind Over Matter maybe a win-more card, but I'm not sure if just Candelabra alone would do the job. It should, based on the analysis given in my previous post. The only drawback to Candelabra is setting it up and using 1 mana which may argubly slow the deck down.
Jurrit: the more lands you have, the more mana you get, and the more lands you have, the stronger is Time Spiral. Explore is alright because i cantrips, so it is not dead weight in the deck pre/post comboing.
Mind over matter seems pretty clunky...it's 6 mana after all. Candelabra of tawnos, however, seems to have merit even without MoM. If you play it on the turn before you combo, it is essentially a reset maybe depending on how many lands you have when you combo out.
On explore. I like it here; it seems janky at first glance but maybe that's because it's explore that card from worldwake lol. Summer bloom might work as a 1 of because when comboing it could work really good if you draw some lands to play 3 additional lands when you already have 3 or more lands out there. I guess it doesn't cantrip though. Nature's lore < Explore IMO almost all the time. They cost the same and explore cantrips while nature's lore can only get forests. Here's a UG list I plan on goldfishing a lot today:
Lands 18
8 Blue Fetches
4 Tropical Island
6 Island
Sorceries 16
4 Time Spiral
4 Merchant Scroll
3 Ideas Unbound
4 Explore
1 Summer Bloom
Instants 22
4 High Tide
2 Cunning Wish
2 Meditate
4 Force of Will
1 Brain freeze
3 Snap
2 Autumn's Veil
4 Brainstorm
Creatures 4
4 Cloud of Faeries
Sideboard:
2 Autumn's Veil
1 Brain freeze
1 Turnabout
1 Snap
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Rebuild
1 Meditate
4 Dispel
3 Spell Pierce
Ok, so that is it. But do you play Explore whenever you can, or when you're comboing out? (Or doesn't it matter?)
Actually, is there a game plan or a "How to play guide" in the Thread for the deck? I read through the first page but didn't find it that clear on the actual way to play.
(I've always been a Thesh / 'midrange' blue player so combo is a little new to me, hence the questions.)
The Cantrip is deceptive, since you`ll have the same handsize whether you play Lore or Explore+ Land.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Ritual
If you don`t have an additional land for explore you`ll get a random card, which imo is less useful than a tropical/pool.
Do note however that the list I tested Lore in was more like Egosums , with 12 1 mana cantrips and less untap effects.
I just goldfished some games with the list I just posted and the deck is insane. I love being able to hardcast force of will as a protection spell; explore is better than nature's lore because I typically get all my mana producing lands in play when I combo out via explore, time spiral into more lands, etc. you get the picture. Summer bloom seems a little win more at first but what it is is LED in this deck during the combo; it's that good because playing 3 lands with high tide active = 6 mana at minimum for a cost of 1G. The last game I played I actually failed to find on some fetches late in the combo. I might actually add more mana producing lands to the deck probably 2 islands in place of 2 fetches. But so far the deck looks very promising. Autumn's veil is a tad bit unsynergystic with cloud of faeries I just realized you can't snap a CoF back to your hand with an active autumn's veil. I might test something else in those 2 slots; maybe another meditate and ideas unbound. Or turnabout maybe. Time spiral untapping 6 lands total = GG's most of the time because you will usually get excessive mana off of casting so many high tide's post time spiral and before time spiral obviously. It's a shame you can't tutor for it with merchant scroll but that's what meditate is for; tutor for meditate, cast it, and you will probably find time spiral with ease.
The deck needs to resolve High Tide to win,why would someone counter your untap effects?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollywood
Candelabra was tested and discarded. If you want to test it, go on, but it isn't better than the other untap effects if you don't play Voltaic Key or MoM. It could be the same if you cast it before the combo turn, but most of the time you are going to draw them latter.
But I agree in Xantid Swarm. Xantid + Autumn's Veil seems promising.
sadly Autumn's veil does nothing against countertop, which is going to be popular again with the fall of Vengevival. If you're splashing green, you could go with City of Solitude, or Abeyance if you go white (Abeyance is quite the house if you're doing a white spalsh against control/counter/countertop) and it cantrips
I say : Krosan grip in the side can take care of counterbalance. Wipe away is also good since he take out hatebear. Both are wishable
And Wipe Away is also tutorable.Quote:
Originally Posted by kilukru
Do you guys think City os Solitude would be good against CB too?
Coiling Oracle??Quote:
Originally Posted by Jak.
With 12 1-mana cantrips you can easily set up a turn 2 Oracle that will net you a land.
Summer Bloom seems good as a mid-combo accelerant, but usually not something you'd want to start with. Maybe 4 Explore, 2 Oracle, 1 Bloom?
I can go off turn 3 pretty consistently with the list I posted above; explore is insane, summer bloom is insane as a 1 of not more because you don't want them clogging your hand and you only have so many lands you can play in one game lol.
Coiling oracle would be good in a one mana cantrip heavy list IMO to abuse it the most. Because then you wouldn't be revealing blind cards on turn 2 very much; and during the combo it's storm +1 if you reveal a land because you'll have high tide active making tropical island tap for UG/it's mana cost or it just cantrips into more spells/business.
City of solitude is decent against countertop; as long as they don't have a one drop on top at the end of their turn that is or a 2 drop which makes it hard to win when it shuts off ideas unbound, merchant scroll, snap, cloud of faeries, explore, and summers bloom. Overall though I believe the best answer to be wipe away; tutorable so it's a 7 of essentially 9 of if you count cunning wish -> wipe away. Although cunning wish should probably grab k grip since k grip just destroys the blasted card. Additionally if we splashed red for burning wish we could run pyroblast/red elemental blast to combat balance very effectively since we don't run LED and it can protect us from countermagic as well as well as meddling mage.
Also, countering high tide is the right move with this deck. Like really, what does this deck do without ritual effects/high tide? It sits there until it finds another one.
Also, what are peoples opinions of turn aside? It reads U: Counter target spell that targets a permanent you control. Can be useful to either stop vindicate/sinkhole or removal on our cloud of faeries in response to a snap. Unfortunately it does not stop wasteland though.
7 Fetches
4 Tropical Island
2 Breeding Pool
5 Island
4 Explore
3 Nature's Lore
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
1 Preordain
4 Impulse
4 Merchant Scroll
4 Force of Will
4 High Tide
1 Brain Freeze
2 Cunning Wish
2 Meditate
1 Turnabout
4 Time Spiral
Nature's Lore is great. Totally forgot about it. It isn't as great mid combo since Explore at least cantrips but it is there to setup the turn 3 kill which is what this deck needs in order to be playable.
You can't possibly be going off turn 3 consistently. It is mathematically impossible to do it more than 50% of the time with that deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Ritual
You should play Teferi's Response. It even removes Rishadan Port.Quote:
Also, what are peoples opinions of turn aside? It reads U: Counter target spell that targets a permanent you control. Can be useful to either stop vindicate/sinkhole or removal on our cloud of faeries in response to a snap. Unfortunately it does not stop wasteland though.
For all these G splashes, would Carpet of Flowers warrant SB testing against blue decks? I'll admit I'm not experienced with spring tide despite owning all of it (except Time Spiral... crap), but it seems like it could help get the mana to go off through countermagic.
Maybe I'm just ripping like a champion then...because turn 3 is when I try to go off every game and I have yet to fail. Turn 2 explore into another land into turn 3 4 lands on the table is sick. And casting more than 4 high tides in one game is amazing accel lol tapping one land for 8 mana is just ridiculous thanks to time spiral. Time spiral is just the absolute nuts in this deck it's unreal. You rarely draw 7 bad cards; and also the snap cloud of faeries engine is sick. It can accel you some then draw you a card via cycling the faerie that you just bounced to you hand. Cycling is tech lulz. And merchant scroll is very good despite the only card draw it can find being meditate that's often good enough. 5 mana to draw 4 cards seems bad but in reality it is very good especially post time spiral. Or even before prior to time spiral to draw into a time spiral. Time spiral is broken. Ban time spiral wizards j/k I'm going to love playing spring tide come january 1st. The deck is absolutely insane. Still might need a little tweaking to make it better though.