[Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

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Originally Posted by lordofthepit

Awesome.

I haven't actually gotten the natural Tendrils line to work very often (i.e. not since three years ago when I last played the deck and would occasionally board an additional 2-3 copies of Tendrils in).

With the newer lists (after Past in Flames and Gitaxian Probe), drawing Tendrils has always been miserable. I often sequence my early turns aggressively with my cantrips, including Probes. Then I draw into the Tendrils without expecting it, and it feels absolutely miserable. The options are as follows:

1) Dig aggressively for a Brainstorm, which is hard if I've spent a lot of cantrips already.
2) Wait a few turns to get back up to 8 cards in hand, preferably with several cantrips, which is also hard if I've spend cantrips early.
3) Go off with Infernal Tutor + LED (or Ad Nauseam) anyway, making sure to use a Past in Flames line (which only works without grave hate from your opponent).
4) Run a ghetto tutor chain where you can't go hellbent, thereby crippling you into using Infernal Tutors to find Dark Ritual or Cabal Ritual.
5) Hope to hit (or otherwise dig into) the one-of Past in Flames. This is hard to find, but it's easy mode if you have any rituals at all in hand.

It's tough for me to assess what strategy to use. Am I supposed to be holding back cantrips early just in case I accidentally draw Tendrils? That feels terrible.

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Well, I'm not sure to be honest. I feel the need to be distinct between being on a natural tendrils plan (ie. usually only after board) and not being on that plan. If you're not on that plan then you usually have far fewer turns to play before dying to your tempo/combo opponent so nestling your tendrils in your hand while you play draw go isn't really going to pan out. In those cases, Tendrils is not a great card to draw, but it is not necessarily bad either. I basically try to go for a Past in Flames kill then and in that case it is just one less tutor you need. Meaning if your hand is: tendrils, dark rit, cabal rit, LED and infernal tutor, your first tutor gets PiF, then your flashbacked tutor can grab another ritual for instance having tendrils already in the yard and ready to be flashbacked.

If you ARE on the natural tendrils plan then you're going to have more than one tendrils in your deck and will generally be happy to see it in your hand. In that case, the goal will be to get a hand that is all spells while developing your mana base.

So yeah, basically, if you only have 1 tendrils (game 1) then winning with a natural tendrils is going to be a very rare occurance and will usually require your opponent have done quite a bit of dmg to themselves. So in many cases, "natural tendrils" is a pipe dream hehe. You need to have more than 1 tendrils in the deck to start strategizing towards winning that way imo :)

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Originally Posted by elijah

Would the Scry 1 of Drown in Sorrow actually be worth it or is it just better to kill guys with equipment just in case it happens with Deluge?

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I forgot that card existed. and yes it is strictly better than infest.

The only time i can see deluge being better is the corner cases of killing suited up dudes. which i read somewhere someone wishing they had deluge instead of massacre for a canonist with a jitte with counter(s) on it. canonist came down he played wish. opponent played stoneforge. jitte, equipped to canonist and got in. massacre is now super dead. but i think at that point you are still paying an absurd amount of life.

also multiple serra avengers is another story i heard.

so they all have their places just depends on which you want to play and what you want to beat.

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Originally Posted by ThomasDowd

I forgot that card existed. and yes it is strictly better than infest.

The only time i can see deluge being better is the corner cases of killing suited up dudes. which i read somewhere someone wishing they had deluge instead of massacre for a canonist with a jitte with counter(s) on it. canonist came down he played wish. opponent played stoneforge. jitte, equipped to canonist and got in. massacre is now super dead. but i think at that point you are still paying an absurd amount of life.

also multiple serra avengers is another story i heard.
Q
so they all have their places just depends on which you want to play and what you want to beat.

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I've seen it as that slot as a card to kill their hatebears and then go off, not to kill their clock. If that were the case, Virtue's Ruin is way better, but the fact that Massacre is free or costs 1 (with Thalia) is the best part. If it's something to really worry about, I'd be digging for a Chain of Vapor to get the problem.

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Originally Posted by lordofthepit

Awesome.

I haven't actually gotten the natural Tendrils line to work very often (i.e. not since three years ago when I last played the deck and would occasionally board an additional 2-3 copies of Tendrils in).

With the newer lists (after Past in Flames and Gitaxian Probe), drawing Tendrils has always been miserable. I often sequence my early turns aggressively with my cantrips, including Probes. Then I draw into the Tendrils without expecting it, and it feels absolutely miserable. The options are as follows:

1) Dig aggressively for a Brainstorm, which is hard if I've spent a lot of cantrips already.
2) Wait a few turns to get back up to 8 cards in hand, preferably with several cantrips, which is also hard if I've spend cantrips early.
3) Go off with Infernal Tutor + LED (or Ad Nauseam) anyway, making sure to use a Past in Flames line (which only works without grave hate from your opponent).
4) Run a ghetto tutor chain where you can't go hellbent, thereby crippling you into using Infernal Tutors to find Dark Ritual or Cabal Ritual.
5) Hope to hit (or otherwise dig into) the one-of Past in Flames. This is hard to find, but it's easy mode if you have any rituals at all in hand.

It's tough for me to assess what strategy to use. Am I supposed to be holding back cantrips early just in case I accidentally draw Tendrils? That feels terrible.

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It shouldn't really happen *that* often with only one tendrils in the deck (at least game one) - although I have won two games or so by playing a tendrils I naturally drew short of full storm and then flashing it back.

(I think one of those times I actually naturally drew PiF as well, which was sort of lucky because I ended up casting PiF twice because he had a Force in hand and if I'd had to IT for it he'd have just forced the IT and stopped me - I write that one up as me being a luck sack, I think ...)

On another note - in my weekly legacy this week i went 2-1 and took second in an eight man which is the best I've done w/ the deck so far but is probably at least a little attributable to variance (I've honestly not expected to win much since I picked it up in Jan, at least until I've played it for a while). Going to play in the SCG legacy open on Sunday, mostly to get more experience in real games :)

Good evening gents,

Today i went to a larger legacy event in hannover with my buddys "Cabal Theraphy", "JPA" (who is also known for the sneak show primer here on the source) and "Rainer Bratfish"

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/13/avyrery2.jpg

I was not sure which deck i should take to to be victorious,had to decide between Ant and a new Bug Tempo deck which "lurch" and i'm currently working on.
Finally i took Ant and played the following List:

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/13/5yguja3e.jpg

Deck: "The Machine Gun" by Kai Thiele

Counts : 60 main / 15 sideboard

Spells:46
2 Chrome Mox
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Brainstorm
2 Cabal Therapy
4 Dark Ritual
4 Duress
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Ponder
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Thoughtseize
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Infernal Tutor
1 Past in Flames
1 Tendrils of Agony
2 Ad Nauseam

Lands:14
1 Bayou
1 Island
3 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
1 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island

Sideboard:15
2 Chain of Vapor
2 Flusterstorm
2 Xantid Swarm
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Young Pyromancer
1 Empty the Warrens
2 Massacre

Around 80 people registered and the judge announced 7 swiss rounds,perfect.

Affinity 2:0
Shardless Bant 2:0
UG Infect. 2:0
Grixis Delver. 2:1
Maverick 1:2
UWr Miracle 2:0
Team Ameria ID

5:1:1 and 11:3:0 in Games.
The Deck was pretty sweet today,gonna make little changes for the next couple of weeks to be best prepared for the BoM this year in France.

If there are any questions on card choices or anything else please feel free to comment :-)


- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -

Please, do explain your reasoning behind Young Pyromancer and possibly flusterstorm. ;) What decks made you end up with sideboard cards like this?

Other than that, I'm VERY happy to see your list.

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Originally Posted by Machahiko

Please, do explain your reasoning behind Young Pyromancer and possibly flusterstorm. ;) What decks made you end up with sideboard cards like this?

Other than that, I'm VERY happy to see your list.

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Oh boi, isn't it self-explanatory? Young Pyromancer is good against Miracles which and constitutes a clock which has to be handled within few turns and during that time we can gather combopieces and win. Flusterstorm comes into action against combodecks which are faster than ANT like Reanimator, TES, Belcher, Tin Fins and of course in the mirror.

Eidolon of the great revel.
Could that be a problem for us? Doubt it..
What do you Guys think?

How often do you see Pyrostatic Pillar been cast against you?
If you answer the question with "often and I normaly lose to it" then you're in trouble.

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Originally Posted by R3D

Eidolon of the great revel.
Could that be a problem for us? Doubt it..
What do you Guys think?

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Likely unplayable outside of a mono red or UR deck and likely too narrow and answerable to see play. Wouldn't be surprised to see it in modern side board though


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by Holly

How often do you see Pyrostatic Pillar been cast against you?
If you answer the question with "often and I normaly lose to it" then you're in trouble.

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And I'd bet not many of us will have had that experience. I suppose if Burn is a thing at your local meta. It isn't where I play. I've seen one or two Jund players rolling with a couple of Pyrostatic Pillars in their board, but I've seen far more eschew the card. And this guy, while beating for two a turn is a lot harder to fit into a three colour deck at :r::r: when that deck already has to make :b::b:.

Marcelo65 is right, young pyromancer is there to improve the miracle matchup wich is not that great.
Many american guys prefer dark confidant to grind them out but i think young pyromancer does it better.
PRomancer also shines against rug delver the tokens can overrun the opponent or chumpblock all day long to get infinite turns for the perfect hand.


- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -

Well, that message was supposed to be my sneaky and polite way of asking a bigger report to read, but looks like I have been misunderstood. :p 5-1-1 is respectable result at 70 player tournament and it would be really nice to hear more about how the tournament and games went, it's kind of sad that Lemnear is the only one writing reports and he writes like twice a year at this rate. I haven't had a chance to play in tournaments in a long time and playing in cockatrice is boring as hell. I really enjoy watching people play in modo / anywhere and listening to their thoughts. It's really hard to give video documentary from live tournaments, but just look at Bryant Cook's and Lemnear's reports: they are fun to read and they really understands that the tournaments are so much more than just a bunch of games. It's a (road)trip with your friends to a tournament and the stories they tell paint the landscape of the tournament really well and it's a great way to learn to become a better player and have an exciting story at the same!

It's a shame that there aren't any ANT players who write up good and lively stories/reports like Bryant Cook and Lemnear. Or write at all. I guess these reports are also part of the charm of playing T.E.S. for me and I don't wonder at all why people like that deck so much even though it's way harder deck to play. Regardless of which deck is better in game, T.E.S. is a deck with a story - anyone can follow the story evolve and go forth even without playing the deck. The only deck that comes even close to such mysticism around it is Doomsday, but that deck and it's forums are so dead/secretive that there isn't a story to be told. There are just remains of empire long gone and from the rubble and chaos all you can understand is that there was once a wicked man that had mastered a mystic power that made his name feared among all mortals and just saying his name could turn heads. As you travel through these ruins you can almost hear cold whispers call out a name before they'll be silenced forever. Lejay...

So my plea to all of you is: if you happen to have ANT in modo / go to tournaments, I would really like to watch videos from youtube or read stories about games. I wish I'm not the only one wanting more legacy content and coverage. I play like twice a year, I play like shit and I don't know how to write, maybe someone of you knows how to do all of these things.

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Originally Posted by sawatarix

Good evening gents,

Today i went to a larger legacy event in hannover with my buddys "Cabal Theraphy", "JPA" (who is also known for the sneak show primer here on the source) and "Rainer Bratfish"

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/13/avyrery2.jpg

I was not sure which deck i should take to to be victorious,had to decide between Ant and a new Bug Tempo deck which "lurch" and i'm currently working on.
Finally i took Ant and played the following List:

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/13/5yguja3e.jpg

Deck: "The Machine Gun" by Kai Thiele

Counts : 60 main / 15 sideboard

Spells:46
2 Chrome Mox
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Brainstorm
2 Cabal Therapy
4 Dark Ritual
4 Duress
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Ponder
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Thoughtseize
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Infernal Tutor
1 Past in Flames
1 Tendrils of Agony
2 Ad Nauseam

Lands:14
1 Bayou
1 Island
3 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
1 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island

Sideboard:15
2 Chain of Vapor
2 Flusterstorm
2 Xantid Swarm
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Young Pyromancer
1 Empty the Warrens
2 Massacre

Around 80 people registered and the judge announced 7 swiss rounds,perfect.

Affinity 2:0
Shardless Bant 2:0
UG Infect. 2:0
Grixis Delver. 2:1
Maverick 1:2
UWr Miracle 2:0
Team Ameria ID

5:1:1 and 11:3:0 in Games.
The Deck was pretty sweet today,gonna make little changes for the next couple of weeks to be best prepared for the BoM this year in France.

If there are any questions on card choices or anything else please feel free to comment :-)


- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -

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If you are going to play Young Pyromancer as a threat, why not guttersnipe? seems better aggainst other decks also..

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Originally Posted by kkkant

If you are going to play Young Pyromancer as a threat, why not guttersnipe? seems better aggainst other decks also..

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Jeez, I hope that you didn't registered here to write this comment...

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Originally Posted by Machahiko

So my plea to all of you is: if you happen to have ANT in modo / go to tournaments, I would really like to watch videos from youtube or read stories about games. I wish I'm not the only one wanting more legacy content and coverage. I play like twice a year, I play like shit and I don't know how to write, maybe someone of you knows how to do all of these things.

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Well, the last time i played legacy (in a legacy challenge at GP Buenos Aires) i was playing against u/w stoneforge control. I Was in a very bad position so i knew that i needed to bring from the inside the jedi (or sith) on me, because my hand was all bussiness and no discard spell/gitaxian probe to know how to play against possible counterspells, i just knew that my opponent at least had a Fow. I had something like 2 infernal tutors, 2 or 3 rituals and a led (that i didnt need to boost my mana/get hellbent) with like 4 lands in play
i played a ritual and then a no hellbent infernal tutor that meets a [card]Counterspell[/card], but i knew (i really dont know why, i just knew) that he had something else goin on, so i started thinking "how can i beat another counter?", and the only way that came to my mid was a jedi mindtrick. Im very confident when im playing i slam the cards on the table, etc but an idea came to me: i started to doubt about playing the led, showing to my opponent that the card was so important that a counter on that led could ruin me, and finally, put it into play with a strange face. My opponent without a doub slammed a Fow to that little artifact, then i casted a ritual or two, then infernal with hellbet for past in flames and won that game

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Originally Posted by SaberTooth

Well, the last time i played legacy (in a legacy challenge at GP Buenos Aires) i was playing against u/w stoneforge control. I Was in a very bad position so i knew that i needed to bring from the inside the jedi (or sith) on me, because my hand was all bussiness and no discard spell/gitaxian probe to know how to play against possible counterspells, i just knew that my opponent at least had a Fow. I had something like 2 infernal tutors, 2 or 3 rituals and a led (that i didnt need to boost my mana/get hellbent) with like 4 lands in play
i played a ritual and then a no hellbent infernal tutor that meets a [card]Counterspell[/card], but i knew (i really dont know why, i just knew) that he had something else goin on, so i started thinking "how can i beat another counter?", and the only way that came to my mid was a jedi mindtrick. Im very confident when im playing i slam the cards on the table, etc but an idea came to me: i started to doubt about playing the led, showing to my opponent that the card was so important that a counter on that led could ruin me, and finally, put it into play with a strange face. My opponent without a doub slammed a Fow to that little artifact, then i casted a ritual or two, then infernal with hellbet for past in flames and won that game

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Awesome man! Quite often, winning with this deck can come down to setting up play in such a way as to lull the opponent into making the wrong play. As it happens, Carsten Kotter just had a very nice article on these types of situations that came out today: http://www.starcitygames.com/article...eat-Value.html

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Originally Posted by Machahiko

So my plea to all of you is: if you happen to have ANT in modo / go to tournaments, I would really like to watch videos from youtube or read stories about games.

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I would write some stuff up, but I'm not good w/ the deck yet, and it would likely just be a bunch of 'well, I'm an idiot and ...'

(I played in SCG yesterday - I probably shouldn't have, I was really damn tired and not thinking straight and ended up doing just idiotic things that I'm kind of mad at myself for - although I did beat RUG delver through two stifles (probably the highlight of my day))

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Originally Posted by anomie-p

I would write some stuff up, but I'm not good w/ the deck yet, and it would likely just be a bunch of 'well, I'm an idiot and ...'

(I played in SCG yesterday - I probably shouldn't have, I was really damn tired and not thinking straight and ended up doing just idiotic things that I'm kind of mad at myself for - although I did beat RUG delver through two stifles (probably the highlight of my day))

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Deleted my last post since my computer hates me and submitted nothing, but wanted to say it's always good to go and get tournament experience with the deck. It's much different when interacting at competitive REL with people compared to goldfishing. I played yesterday as well at SCG Dallas and was 4-0 until I played the eventual winner of the tournament and lost, then the wheels fell off. I finished 5-4 for 63rd place. My wins included R/W hate bears, Infect, Jund, Reanimator, and Death and Taxes. My losses were to UWR delver, BUG delver, RUG Delver, and Elves. My main highlights of the day were a turn 1 Ad Nauseam win and successfully convincing the elves player in G1 that I was RUG delver. I lost that game and he sideboarded accordingly for RUG delver. He cabal therapied me his turn 1 and named force of will which allowed me to Ad Nauseam for the win on turn 2.

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Originally Posted by afb0032

It's much different when interacting at competitive REL with people compared to goldfishing.

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Or even just playing at the local shop under Regular REL.

I ended up getting 3 warnings for GRV and a game loss because - well - I'm an idiot, essentially, and made three really, really dumb GRV's. I basically called one of them on myself (my opponent was going to let it go but I said 'no, get a judge and have them slap me with what they should slap me with' - because that's the right thing to do imho)

I am in a sense glad it happened that way because it told me in a sort of rough visceral way that I need to work hard on making sure I don't do dumb stuff like that. I am mad at myself for letting it happen in the first place, though.

(as for my opponents - they *should* call, that is what it is, no worries there - I've honestly only played at > Regular REL twice before that, and had no problems, so I'm sort of chalking it up to both being too tired to play and playing anyway and just needing to be more careful)

So yeah, that was my day. Well, that and beating RUG 2-0 with a game two through two stifles in a game that was a bunch of draw go (I had fetches and knew he had a stifle from a probe) into 'fetch lands, watch him not stifle - make a bunch of mana, play this naturally drawn tendrils and watch the trigger get stifled, PiF, make a bunch of mana, flashback probe, see the second stifle, cantrips looking for therapy/duress but find an IT instead, IT for therapy, therapy, tendrils with something like 21 storm ...'.