Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Barook
Quoting my list and then shittalking Displacer without obviously playtesting is disappointing. Endgame? Displacer can be online T2-T3, depending on the match and your draw.
After MD.Ghost's feedback, I'll test a Stoneforge list with 3 SFM, 1 Jitte, 1 Batterskull, 1 SoFaI MD and a SB Sword of Feast and Famine.
It's not that I'm shit talking Displacer, I like displacer. It's nice and interactive but that doesn't change the fact that it costs 6 mana to displace, a steep price. Displacer is a slow control card in white which naturally moves one to a Death & Taxes style deck at which point you could ask yourself whether you should play DNT+Displacer or Eldrazi+SFM+Thalia. My issue with Displacer is similar to MUD vs Stax. Tangle Wire / Smokestack are great control cards, but that doesn't mean they should take up slots in an aggressive MUD build.
The main thing Displacer has going for it is that it's great against SNT decks and combos with Drowner of Hope and Thought-Knot Seer. It's a control card so yes it is slow (6 mana for a displace, 2 full turns to get it online).
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Hey guys,
i would love to know how you would fill out the rest of this:
53 cards:
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
2 Endbringer
4 Endless One
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Dismember
3 Warping Wail
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Eye of Ugin
2 Cavern of Souls
4 Wasteland
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
14 Sb:
2 Ratchet Bomb
3 Winter Orb
1 Dismember
2 Spatial Contortion
2 Sphere of Resistance
4 Leyline of the Void
thats what i have in real life and i'm not sure how to fill out the rest and if i should replace the 3x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth with Mishra's Factory. Any healp would be appreciated.
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bruizar
It's not that I'm shit talking Displacer, I like displacer. It's nice and interactive but that doesn't change the fact that it costs 6 mana to displace, a steep price. Displacer is a slow control card in white which naturally moves one to a Death & Taxes style deck at which point you could ask yourself whether you should play DNT+Displacer or Eldrazi+SFM+Thalia. My issue with Displacer is similar to MUD vs Stax. Tangle Wire / Smokestack are great control cards, but that doesn't mean they should take up slots in an aggressive MUD build.
The main thing Displacer has going for it is that it's great against SNT decks and combos with Drowner of Hope and Thought-Knot Seer. It's a control card so yes it is slow (6 mana for a displace, 2 full turns to get it online).
Wait, you're Ross Merriam? :eyebrow: I was refering to his article, not to your quote.
The 6 mana can be split up over two turns in a deck that supports tons of Sol lands. By the same logic, Mimic would be bad because it costs 6+ mana to become a relevant beatstick. What's nice is that it completely disables the creature for combat, unlike Endbringer in the more ramp-heavy builds.
As far as combos go, the combo with TKS isn't the main appeal (I used it exactly in one game so far against Shardless to control its draws; btw I had double activations up early in this game due to Temples) - it's just an added bonus. If anything, the most relevant combo is post-SB with Containment Priest.
Besides, my build isn't meant to be aggro, it's midrange, which fits the purpose of Displacer much better. Funnily enough, I'm actually going more and more back to my D&T roots with the deck. :laugh:
@DigitalPsycho: I would definitely run 4x Cavern maindeck. It's your free ticket against blue decks.
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Iplay the colorless version. I've got some questions about the deck.
At first the mana base.
My mana base is the following:
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Cavern of Souls
2 City of Traitors
2 Crystal Vein
3 Mishra's Factory
3 Wasteland
3 Eye of Ugin
Now my questions are:
Do i wanna play Urborg, maybe two copies? Do i wanna play 4 eye of ugin to draw it as fast as possible? Do i wanna play Wasteland?
My creatures:
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Endless One
4 Reality Smasher
3 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Endbringer
To the creature base. I've seen a lot of list with Matter Reshaper. Have you got some testing experiences with him?
I think i wanna add him.
The other cards:
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Warping Wail
1 Dismember
Help is greatly appreciated
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
I think colorless or green splash is probably the way to go with this deck for the time being. I've only played against it once (and I don't play this deck at all) but it strikes me that the more colors one plays, and the more colored sources one plays, the more likely one is to whiff on a T1 Chalice, Thorn, or Trinisphere.
I wouldn't run any fewer than ten lock pieces. When I played the deck I was on Storm and playing against easily one of the best players in my (admittedly small) meta, and even with a Thorn and a Chalice I still managed to combo off with Hurkyl's in game 2, and to Ad Nauseam in game 3 through Chalice on 2 and Thorn. I didn't win game 3, but that's because Ad Nauseam is a cruel mistress, not because the lock was too strong.
I'd run a set of Elvish Spirit Guides and a set of Trinispheres, with at least two Trinis in the main. Spirit Guides let you play Trinisphere on turn 1. An added bonus to running Spirit Guides is you can run 2-3x utility cards like Berserk (to end the game really, really quickly) or Crop Rotation (to cut back on Karakases, to stop Dredge from eating this deck alive, and, perhaps, to give a replacement strategy for City of Traitors).
The strength of this deck, regardless of the speed of the beatings it can throw down, is its prison package. That's the only reason anyone plays MUD at all, and even if the kill is faster in this deck, it still needs the protection of the artifacts in order to function properly. White doesn't help out except that it can bring Thalia to the table, and both the shrimpiness of Thalia compared with nearly everything else in the deck and the awkwardness of paying :1: :w: off of cards like Sol lands indicates that it's probably better to be running colorless permanents in that slot instead. If a Storm player (i.e., someone who's running a deck against which Eldrazi is STRONGLY favored) can combo twice through two pieces of hate in two consecutive games, the deck isn't doing what it's supposed to do.
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Crimhead
The idea that we will see Legacy playable madness cards is speculative at best.
It was in response to "everyone will be gunning for eldrazi" comment. The fact is, madness is criminally undercosted and reality smasher is one of the few ways to give an opponent an on-board discard outlet whose timing they control. A card like Dark Withering indicates the level of power creep from Torment to Time Spiral (a DRS kill away from seeing play in something like reanimator), and I don't think it's entirely unreasonable to preemptively begin dropping to 3 Smashers. It is speculative yes, but with that line of text about discarding already on smasher, the only thing that is needed is a good madness card getting printed and suddenly you could be looking at a very good anti-eldrazi card. While you can get in the habit of shaving smashers post-board, this isn't going to help vs goyf decks (especially the ones that'll use Liliana anyways).
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Though alot of brewing, testing and tweaking i plan to ryn this version of the eldrazi deck at scg philly
4x chalice
4x thoughtknot seer
4x skyspawner
4x reality smasher
4x eldrazi displacer
3x warping wail
1x dismember
2x phyrexian metamorph
4x mox diamond
2x drowner of hope
2x umezawas jitte
2x trinisphere
The manabase is where im not to sure so far something like
4x adarkar wastes
4x eldrazi temple
3x eye of ugin
4x ancient tomb
3x city of traitors
1x seagate wreckage (card has been amazing )
1x island
1x karakas
2x tundra
1x plains
Sb will be close to
2x rest in peace (lands, dredge , reanimator , tes, )
3x containment priest( elves ,reanimator, dredge, sneak and show )
2x ratchet bomb ( elves etc..)
1x warping wail (catch all)
2x sacred ground(great against lands)
2x gilded drake (insane in mirror with displacer)
1x tsabos Web (lands, northeast high a abnormally high percebtage)
2x disenchant (painter, bloodmoon decks)
Reason i chose uw byild is due to its resistance to fight through the hate cards that will be present at scg philly. Skyspawner gives us ways to fight over a moat and usuabke with displacer. Mox diamond gives us ways to cast eldrazi ie dispacer, drowner and skyspawner. Plus drowner gives us the edge in the mirror as does displacer.
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
militiaman89
Though alot of brewing, testing and tweaking i plan to ryn this version of the eldrazi deck at scg philly
4x chalice
4x thoughtknot seer
4x skyspawner
4x reality smasher
4x eldrazi displacer
3x warping wail
1x dismember
2x phyrexian metamorph
4x mox diamond
2x drowner of hope
2x umezawas jitte
2x trinisphere
The manabase is where im not to sure so far something like
4x adarkar wastes
4x eldrazi temple
3x eye of ugin
4x ancient tomb
3x city of traitors
1x seagate wreckage (card has been amazing )
1x island
1x karakas
2x tundra
1x plains
Sb will be close to
2x rest in peace (lands, dredge , reanimator , tes, )
3x containment priest( elves ,reanimator, dredge, sneak and show )
2x ratchet bomb ( elves etc..)
1x warping wail (catch all)
2x sacred ground(great against lands)
2x gilded drake (insane in mirror with displacer)
1x tsabos Web (lands, northeast high a abnormally high percebtage)
2x disenchant (painter, bloodmoon decks)
Reason i chose uw byild is due to its resistance to fight through the hate cards that will be present at scg philly. Skyspawner gives us ways to fight over a moat and usuabke with displacer. Mox diamond gives us ways to cast eldrazi ie dispacer, drowner and skyspawner. Plus drowner gives us the edge in the mirror as does displacer.
MY GW version does have trouble against the Hyper Aggro version in the mirror, while doing better against the more rampy/midrangy version. Gilded Drake with Displacer really sounds like great tech. The mirror is definitely going to be relevant.
I would go with 3 RiPs in the board, though. They're also great vs Tarmogoyf decks. Not sure if cutting Thorn from the board completely is a good idea. Otherwise, the list looks rock-solid.
I'm gonna test it on Cockatrice (since I lack part of the cards on MTGO).
Edit: I just noticed you run 0 Caverns. I would try to fix that asap. It's one of the core strenghts of the deck to ignore your blue opponent.
Edit #2: First impression: Deck looks strong after 2 matches against Elves/Reanimator on Cockatrice, but 4 Moxen are way too many. I found myself mulligan to 4 twice due to horrible, mana-related starting hands.
The changes I would make, while still trying to stay true to your core. Maybe some of this input is useful to you:
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Adarkar Wastes
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
2 Karakas
2 Mox Diamond
2 Talisman of Progress
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Eldrazi Skyspawner
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
2 Drowner of Hope
2 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Trinisphere
3 Warping Wail
1 Dismember
2 Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 3 Rest in Peace
SB: 3 Containment Priest
SB: 2 Gilded Drake
SB: 2 Ratchet Bomb
SB: 2 Disenchant (could be Banishing Light? It would deal with problematic PWs and creatures, but I don't have test data on it yet)
SB: 1 Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 2 Thorn of Amethyst
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MGB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Delvis
Fortunately it's very clear these guys are on level 1 as far as strategizing with/against the deck. This thread, and my team in particular, are several steps beyond the thinking they are laying out.
The real advantage is that people still don't know how to play against it yet, but we know how to play against them thanks to extensive testing.
Delvis is right - SCG Stuff is only for "Hype the -Legacy-Eldrazi before SCG PHILLY" - it seems like someone want to sell more overpriced City of Traitors, Thorns, Null Rods etc... It seems, that none of the "Pro" authors really tested the Eldrazi (for Legacy!) and all the different builds (which is important if you want to understand what works well, what is an Angle of Attack besides Manadenial, what can Eldrazi do against worst Matchups etc.). I am sure, that SCG PHILLY will have a lot of Eldrazi Players that straightforward want to attack like in Modern. Some of them will do well with this simple beat down strategy, some will fall against well prepared Players (using Moat, Humility, Bridge etc.). It would be interesting too see, if enough of them are crushed from SneakShow, Gofy, or Lock Pieces, if the next level (see the discussion here) will lead to "Next Level Eldrazi" aka Builds with 1-2 Colors or at least a minor green Splash (Spirit Guides+Cavern for example) for World Breaker.
But overall i full agree with Delvis: The real advantage is that people still don't know how to play against it yet, but we know how to play against them thanks to extensive testing.
Good Luck for everyone with Eldrazi at SCG PHILLY - hope we see some nice results!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bruizar
The thing is, between All is Dust and World Breaker, there are no permanents that provide safety from Eldrazi's inevitability. No moat, no True-Name Nemesis. Most they can do is stall and win before you can solve it. The only silver bullet imo is wastelocking.
Those articles are indeed a few steps behind. It's good to see Barook's list in there. The conclusion that lands is the best deck to beat Eldrazi is semi-accurate. I think Goblins is a good contender as well. That said, I will develop the processor version more as Leyline of the Void in theory should put a dent in the lands matchup and I'll continue to pilot between GW/UW/colorless until I feel more comfortable with the processor build.
As mentioned above - no permanent will be a lock for Eldrazi if you build them right (which also means: Don't count a 1off solution in a deck without cantrips), simply keep in mind: "What can i do in situation X".
@Goblins/DnT: I don't think they are better suited vs Eldrazi than DnT (afterall a matchup i don't fear). Besides Wast+Port, they only can Swarm you, removal is more or less useless vs Eldrazi (nice Pyrokinesis). I only tested the matchup once (with UW) but it was pretty brutal for Goblins. Wail kills any Lackey and a fast Smasher is hard to stop. I also good the funny situation: Opponent hard cast Sharpshooter (no haste lord), i copy it with Metamorph and shoot the Sharpshooter down with Wail in the same turn. You can have many more tools like Revoker (Vial), Jitte (very good), Displacer (3/3 body helps also) and if the field is full: All is Dust.
Sure if they start with Vial and have a dreamhand like Lackey, Port/Waste and some more good Goblins it can be a very hard task, similar to a good DnT Start - but that is not common in every game and it can also go like this: Eldrazi Start: Tomb+Chalice (no Vial :tongue:) and in this case Manadenial (without pressure) isn't the best idea, but if you don't Waste as a DnT/Goblin you can fall behind if Eldrazi goes T2 another Solland + Seer for example. So a harsh decision for your opponent. Manadenial for DnT/Goblins will only work if you can also apply some pressure. I won numerous games against hasty opponents which thought it is clever (on the draw) to T1: Waste any Eldrazi-Land, the quickly fall behind for the rest of the game, because Eldrazi (if build correctly) aren't MUD (a more fragile Manabase which higher cc stuff in hands).
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Barook
I would definitely run 4x Cavern maindeck. It's your free ticket against blue decks.
Trust Barook! - 4 Caverns, every game (even with the playset) you not get Cavern online vs Blue, you will remember that this land can be a critical piece. You don't want to run into Daze/Force with Seer/Smasher, especially not if you also take Damage from Tomb.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Deckerator
Now my questions are:
Do i wanna play Urborg, maybe two copies? Do i wanna play 4 eye of ugin to draw it as fast as possible? Do i wanna play Wasteland?
To the creature base. I've seen a lot of list with Matter Reshaper. Have you got some testing experiences with him?
I think i wanna add him.
For a colorless Eldrazi shell i would start with the following land base:
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Cavern of Souls
3 City of Traitors
3 Wasteland
3 Eye of Ugin
2 Mishra's Factory
It leaves 1-2 more Slots (i like 25 lands) and i think Urborg is very good for colorless builds because a) it improves Eye b) it reduces Tomb Damage c) it will be work well with common "colorless" cards like: Dismember, Faerie Macabre/Leyline of the Void. I for myself would only run this build with 1 Crucible Main, because it will stabilize any config with multiple City/Eye, works well with Wastelands/Mishra and also defend you vs Manadenial. A 2nd copy at Side is also a good idea (vs Lands/Loam).
Matter Reshaper can be ok, he will shine against BGx decks, blocking Gofy, annoy Liliana etc.
Wasteland or not? Wasteland can be good in aggressive builds, that decks also play stuff like Thorn (and some of them Lodestone/Trinisphere), but Wasteland should only be used if you are ahead on the battlefield. So 3 Wastelands seems ok for me, if you also want to use Mishra (or other utility lands). While Eldrazi are need 4-5 Mana to operate well enough, most legacy decks are well-built with lots of cc 1-2 cards, which is also a reason, why a simply Gofy can be a problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ronald Deuce
I think colorless or green splash is probably the way to go with this deck for the time being. I've only played against it once (and I don't play this deck at all) but it strikes me that the more colors one plays, and the more colored sources one plays, the more likely one is to whiff on a T1 Chalice, Thorn, or Trinisphere.
I wouldn't run any fewer than ten lock pieces. When I played the deck I was on Storm and playing against easily one of the best players in my (admittedly small) meta, and even with a Thorn and a Chalice I still managed to combo off with Hurkyl's in game 2, and to Ad Nauseam in game 3 through Chalice on 2 and Thorn. I didn't win game 3, but that's because Ad Nauseam is a cruel mistress, not because the lock was too strong.
Trinisphere will not work well enough with Eye of Ugin and will do nothing vs SneakShow, even Elves can cast NO for the Win and as someone mentioned before: Ramping out Sphere and fall behind because your opponent simply Waste you out of the Game (Stories from MUD) are not the right direction for Eldrazi.
As far as i liked Trinisphere in Sylvan Plug (as Omnitell was Tier 1!) i would run Thorns now. Against Storm Thorn is much better, because Hate will cost the same (Decay/Hurkyl's Recall vs Trinisphere) or more (because you can stack them). While colorless Eldrazi should use Thorn Main, i see no space for so many prison elements in a GW, UW or RG build. Interestingly enough the colored builds are well prepared for the "problematic" fair matchups where Thorn isn't strong enough. I think it is fine, to run away with 12 different cards (Chalice, Seer, Wail) at Main against Combo and side in Thorn&Stuff for G2/3. With white i would recommend Thalia, because it dodges stuff like Hurkyl's Recall, beats and synergies with Karakas. As always it makes sense to split Hate cards - if everyone be prepared to kill your Prison-Artifacts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
militiaman89
Though alot of brewing, testing and tweaking i plan to ryn this version of the eldrazi deck at scg philly
Reason i chose uw byild is due to its resistance to fight through the hate cards that will be present at scg philly. Skyspawner gives us ways to fight over a moat and usuabke with displacer. Mox diamond gives us ways to cast eldrazi ie dispacer, drowner and skyspawner. Plus drowner gives us the edge in the mirror as does displacer.
UW Build looks good so far - very similar to the one i posted at the last pages. I would trim at least 1 maindeck slot for: Rasputin Combo OR World Breaker to avoid locks at Game 1 (at a big tournament you can always get the one opponent that play annoying stuff like Maindeck Bridge etc.)
I will try Duplicant over Gilded Drake, but i can also see the Drake as a nice tool with Displacer - both will work at Mirror, or vs other decks with big dudes. Since you are running white, karakas, seagate sacred ground i would follow Barooks advice and cut the random Tsabos Web for one more Rest in Peace. I would also use at least 1-2 Thalia/Thorn against Combo/Burn since (as i mentioned above) your UW build packs only a small amount of Prison Elements (Chalice) compared to other Eldrzai Builds.
I also like All is Dust over Bomb here, Bomb can be faster sometimes (but also painful slow sometimes) it can also kill your tokens, moxen etc. or permanents like RiP, Priest etc. - since you play City over Wastelands you can ramp better to reach the 7 Mana for All is Dust which is so good vs fair decks if they managed to stall you for a while. It wrecks, Moon, Planewalker, Humility, Mentor - simply all together. The only case i would like Bomb is vs Empty the Warrens (Belcher, TES, ANT), because it means "GG". Remember that most opponents will use Artifact Hate vs Eldrazi (Chalice, Thorn etc.) so most decks will be prepared to snipe a Bomb on the field anyway.
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
I don't know why people think Goblins is that troublesome aside from their mana denial. I just played against this and went 2-1 (might have even won G2 if I had played differently). And my opponent had T1 Vial into mana denial every game. TKS hurts them since it's a roadblock that can also take crucial pieces from their hand.
What we should do think about is better SB tech against the mirror. I was destroyed by Mono C aggro thrice in a row last league. Finding good, fast, one-sided hate seems difficult, though.
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Barook
What we should do think about is better SB tech against the mirror. I was destroyed by Mono C aggro thrice in a row last league. Finding good, fast, one-sided hate seems difficult, though.
Welcome on the other side :laugh:
Since you play white, as i mentioned before, i would try stuff like: Ajani Steadfast or Worship to buy enough time to get Displacer+Priest/Duplicant online
I think Wurmcoil Engine can also be a huge roadblock, but 6 mana can be problematic sometimes, once Endbringer (aka Backup for colorless Eldrazi) is online it is also not the right answer.
The colorless Aggro Version can struggle vs Permanents (we talked about it^^), key is get them online fast enough (the reason i like cc4) and prevent the pick from Seer (use more than one copy and/or decrease the CC of your answers). White can also offer stuff like Ghostly Prison (with Mox+Solland castable Turn1), which can also help against other creaturebased matchups. Thanks to our Sollands/Mana ramp, you can deploy all the cards faster than other decks (which is important against Aggro).
As you said before - green can use a nice Beast which negates more or less 2 Smasher hits (5 life + 5/3 Body + Token) and can take over the game with Displacer, but first i would try the white solutions. If you don't like permanents you can also use various instants to buy some time or use the stack for combat tricks:
Rest for the Weary
Humbl
Reprisal
Dawn Charm
Valorous Stance
Feed the Clan
Moment's Peace
Tangle
Winds of Qal Sisma
and many more - some of them will also work vs Gofy&friends). Since it should be common that both Eldrazi side out Chalice, Thorns, All is Dust etc (normal useless for the mirror) you can also jedi mindtrick them and play stuff like Path to Exile :laugh: With colors it should be easy to find something (see modern). The good news are, that our own GW build can't be locked out from the same stuff.
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MD.Ghost
Delvis is right - SCG Stuff is only for "Hype the -Legacy-Eldrazi before SCG PHILLY" - it seems like someone want to sell more overpriced City of Traitors, Thorns, Null Rods etc... It seems, that none of the "Pro" authors really tested the Eldrazi (for Legacy!) and all the different builds (which is important if you want to understand what works well, what is an Angle of Attack besides Manadenial, what can Eldrazi do against worst Matchups etc.). I am sure, that SCG PHILLY will have a lot of Eldrazi Players that straightforward want to attack like in Modern. Some of them will do well with this simple beat down strategy, some will fall against well prepared Players (using Moat, Humility, Bridge etc.). It would be interesting too see, if enough of them are crushed from SneakShow, Gofy, or Lock Pieces, if the next level (see the discussion here) will lead to "Next Level Eldrazi" aka Builds with 1-2 Colors or at least a minor green Splash (Spirit Guides+Cavern for example) for World Breaker.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MD.Ghost
As far as i liked Trinisphere in Sylvan Plug (as Omnitell was Tier 1!) i would run Thorns now. Against Storm Thorn is much better, because Hate will cost the same (Decay/Hurkyl's Recall vs Trinisphere) or more (because you can stack them). While colorless Eldrazi should use Thorn Main, i see no space for so many prison elements in a GW, UW or RG build. Interestingly enough the colored builds are well prepared for the "problematic" fair matchups where Thorn isn't strong enough. I think it is fine, to run away with 12 different cards (Chalice, Seer, Wail) at Main against Combo and side in Thorn&Stuff for G2/3. With white i would recommend Thalia, because it dodges stuff like Hurkyl's Recall, beats and synergies with Karakas. As always it makes sense to split Hate cards - if everyone be prepared to kill your Prison-Artifacts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MD.Ghost
UW Build looks good so far - very similar to the one i posted at the last pages. I would trim at least 1 maindeck slot for: Rasputin Combo OR World Breaker to avoid locks at Game 1 (at a big tournament you can always get the one opponent that play annoying stuff like Maindeck Bridge etc.)
Why something like this:
4x Adarkar Wastes
4x Ancient Tomb
4x Cavern of Souls
4x Chalice of the Void
3x City of Traitors
2x Drowner of Hope
4x Eldrazi Displacer
4x Eldrazi Skyspawner
4x Eldrazi Temple
3x Eye of Ugin
2x Karakas
4x Mox Diamond
3x Phyrexian Metamorph
4x Reality Smasher
2x Thorn of Amethyst
4x Thought-Knot Seer
3x Warping Wail
2x World Breaker
SB:
1x All Is Dust
2x Containment Priest
1x Disenchant
1x Dismember
1x Gilded Drake
2x Pithing Needle
2x Ratchet Bomb
1x Rest in Peace
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
I don't particularly like Jitte, as it takes very long to play and equip it and I would rather play Wails and Dismembers against Elves or Goblins.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MD.Ghost
Trust Barook! - 4 Caverns, every game (even with the playset) you not get Cavern online vs Blue, you will remember that this land can be a critical piece. You don't want to run into Daze/Force with Seer/Smasher, especially not if you also take Damage from Tomb.
Totally! This makes one avenue of interaction totally moot, while at the same time fixing your mana!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MD.Ghost
Wasteland or not? Wasteland can be good in aggressive builds, that decks also play stuff like Thorn (and some of them Lodestone/Trinisphere), but Wasteland should only be used if you are ahead on the battlefield. So 3 Wastelands seems ok for me, if you also want to use Mishra (or other utility lands). While Eldrazi are need 4-5 Mana to operate well enough, most legacy decks are well-built with lots of cc 1-2 cards, which is also a reason, why a simply Gofy can be a problem.
I agree if you have a World Breaker - otherwise the Wastelands seem necessary even if just to kill Maze of Ith.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MD.Ghost
Trinisphere will not work well enough with Eye of Ugin and will do nothing vs SneakShow, even Elves can cast NO for the Win and as someone mentioned before: Ramping out Sphere and fall behind because your opponent simply Waste you out of the Game (Stories from MUD) are not the right direction for Eldrazi.
I ran Trinisphere in the earlier versions where I also ran 3 Eyes of Ugin and then you are somehow forced to use Moxen to a) have them turn 1 and b) to get actual mana from Eyes of Ugin. The switch to Thorn is also good because you can easily run the Thorn turn 1.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MD.Ghost
I will try Duplicant over Gilded Drake, but i can also see the Drake as a nice tool with Displacer - both will work at Mirror, or vs other decks with big dudes. Since you are running white, karakas, seagate sacred ground i would follow Barooks advice and cut the random Tsabos Web for one more Rest in Peace. I would also use at least 1-2 Thalia/Thorn against Combo/Burn since (as i mentioned above) your UW build packs only a small amount of Prison Elements (Chalice) compared to other Eldrzai Builds.
I would even go further and cut some Rest in Peace for Surgical extractions. There are 2 people locally that play lands and Rest in Peace is not that good against them - you will eventually die to the combo and if they can wastelock you, you never get to :1::w:. Also against the fast Reanimator or All spells grave decks RIP is just too slow. And I think that Surgical is better than Faerie, as it can e.g. exile all Griselbrands, all Infernal Tutors or all Life from the Loams.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MD.Ghost
I also like All is Dust over Bomb here, Bomb can be faster sometimes (but also painful slow sometimes) it can also kill your tokens, moxen etc. or permanents like RiP, Priest etc. - since you play City over Wastelands you can ramp better to reach the 7 Mana for All is Dust which is so good vs fair decks if they managed to stall you for a while. It wrecks, Moon, Planewalker, Humility, Mentor - simply all together. The only case i would like Bomb is vs Empty the Warrens (Belcher, TES, ANT), because it means "GG". Remember that most opponents will use Artifact Hate vs Eldrazi (Chalice, Thorn etc.) so most decks will be prepared to snipe a Bomb on the field anyway.
How about splitting it 2 Bombs and 1 All is Dust? The Bombs are a necessary evil specifically against Empty the Warrens.
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
As i bought into Eldrazi for Modern i wanted to give them a try at the local Legacy FNM today. Missing some cards i'm going to play the following:
4 Endless One
2 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Thougth Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
2 Endbringer
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Warping Wail
1 Dismember
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
2 Crystal Vein
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
2 Cavern of Souls
4 Wasteland
1 Mishra's Factory
1 Urbrog, Tomb of Yawgmoth
SB
2 All is Dust
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Spatial Contortion
1 Dismember
1 Waping Wail
2 Pithing Needle
1 Crucible of Worlds
2 ?
Keycards i'm missing are 2 Thorn and 2 Mimic.
Will post my results over the weekend.
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MD.Ghost
Thragtusk is a card i loved from my old Nic Fit decks, but i think the "Gain Life" Idea lead to other cards. Thragtusk needs Green and while the deck can support many white cards thanks to 2-3 Karakas, green is a little bit harder (World Breaker profits from Cavern). So ok you can set Cavern for Beast, but this is only wise if you find a 2nd copy of Cavern (and your opponent don't Waste the first). The combo with Displacer is nice, but if i would try to find room (and mana) for a green card, my first pick would be Sylvan Library over KGrip, Thragtusk, Rec.Sage etc.
Sylvan Library is perfect for a Mid-Lategame build like GW or RG Eldrazi. Sadly i can't find the right spot for it, but i think it can be a huge deal for consistency and it is more or less a threat on its own.
If you aim for
"gain Life" you can try Instants like
Feed the Clan or
Rest for the Weary but i think the best options from white are:
Worship and
Ajani Steadfast - while Worship can be a no brainer (vs other Eldrazi etc.), Ajani offers a aggressive way for UW, his +1 will be quite good with Smasher/Seer and his other Ability can easily pump the Swarm (Skyspawner/Drowner + Displacer)
Stoneforge Mystic was at my very first White Eldrazi Sketch, with Displacer and with Matter Reshaper (!) - so yes it can work, but i would only use 3 + 1 Skull +1 Jitte, this leaves the GW Build with: Keep 1 Conduit (as a tutor) or keep 1 Metamorph (with Stoneforge and BSkull in mind) - but with the cut of Eldrazi i don't see the 3rd Eye as a good choice at Barooks Build. I would only use 2, because they will do nothing for many non Eldrazi cards at Mid-Lategame Builds - aim for as much consistency as possible.
@ thragtusk, if you are looking to gain life as a plan B you are probably in a losing position anyways.
@ Worship, this is good vs fair decks but does almost nothing vs combo. ANT / Sneak attack being the main offenders here. Emrakul makes you sacrifice it, and ant is loss of life.
@ Ajani, if there ever was a deck that could use him this seems like it. It helps on the life gain issue and makes the deck more aggressive but without a creature he's weak.
@SFM, everyone likes this card because it tutor's generates advantage but it's kinda slow. If you are running out of threats then this can help get a recursive batter skull but it more or less commits you to a certain line of play. I would imagine you want something more impactful when you cast it.
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
You guys like my new avatar? lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SirGalahad
As i bought into Eldrazi for Modern i wanted to give them a try at the local Legacy FNM today. Missing some cards i'm going to play the following:
[snip]
Keycards i'm missing are 2 Thorn and 2 Mimic.
Will post my results over the weekend.
Can you do me a favor? Can you play 4 Crystal Vein? I would say shave a couple lands that you have plenty of or are already cemented in the deck.
If you play 4 Vein you'll draw them more often and you'll be able to tell us how good it is. It'd be good to have the data point.
Edit: also welcome to the forums and the best format in Magic and etc.
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Delvis
Can you do me a favor? Can you play 4 Crystal Vein? I would say shave a couple lands that you have plenty of or are already cemented in the deck.
When I brought up crystal vein pages ago, the requisite deck construction was as well: maindeck crucible and winter orbs (you get 6 mana per turn, they get 1). This probably is more indicative of the direction the [colorless] eldrazi deck will go in legacy:
-heavy focus on 2 mana lock pieces that are turn 1'd and repeated in the case that you are wastelanded away from t2 TKS
-eldrazi (other than the TKS core of the deck) being largely cut, and with them Eldrazi Temples; replaced by veins
-revokers into the main
-slow the midgame with cards like winter orbs, and reach inevitability engine with eye
Anyways that's my prediction for the legacy deck, where mimic/temple/moxen (this one might stick around)/monoliths/1-2 of the smashers eventually go the way of Ill-Gotten Gains (old storm card, if memory serves). It isn't simply run Crystal Vein x4 and tell us how it goes, there's a package that goes with it (lest we should be misleading). Unless SirGalahad wants to make that pretty sizable leap forward (if my theory-crafting is on point) in his eldrazi list, I think 1-2 vein main and sideboard crucible will be much more successful for his list as submitted. The more immediate concern I see with the deck is 4x Matter Reshaper in a chalice list, making that 3x revoker/1x additional thorn would instantly improve the decks performance.
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Lejay's take on stompy: http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/379769#online
2 Wastes! The idea just sounded too awful to me in the past, but maybe I've underestimated it?
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fox
When I brought up crystal vein pages ago, the requisite deck construction was as well: maindeck crucible and winter orbs (you get 6 mana per turn, they get 1). This probably is more indicative of the direction the [colorless] eldrazi deck will go in legacy:
-heavy focus on 2 mana lock pieces that are turn 1'd and repeated in the case that you are wastelanded away from t2 TKS
-eldrazi (other than the TKS core of the deck) being largely cut, and with them Eldrazi Temples; replaced by veins
-revokers into the main
-slow the midgame with cards like winter orbs, and reach inevitability engine with eye
Anyways that's my prediction for the legacy deck, where mimic/temple/moxen (this one might stick around)/monoliths/1-2 of the smashers eventually go the way of
Ill-Gotten Gains (old storm card, if memory serves). It isn't simply run Crystal Vein x4 and tell us how it goes, there's a package that goes with it (lest we should be misleading). Unless SirGalahad wants to make that pretty sizable leap
forward (if my theory-crafting is on point) in his eldrazi list, I think 1-2 vein main and sideboard crucible will be much more successful for his list as submitted. The more immediate concern I see with the deck is 4x Matter Reshaper in a chalice list, making that 3x revoker/1x additional thorn would instantly improve the decks performance.
I'm not saying his list is going to be optimized. He's sort of taking a pile as it is. It's FNM after all, so not much is on the line, here. It doesn't really benefit him or us if he optimizes his list for an FNM when he could be using it as an opportunity to test things out.
I'm just asking him to run 4 Vein because he'll draw it more often and see it in more situations where it has the opportunity to prove itself - or fail. So it is as simple as "run 4 and tell us how the card is." If he makes the theory jump you're talking about, it won't be very useful information, because that introduces too many variables to the experiment.
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Sunyveil's article that was opted from SCG since there were too many yesterday. He has a pretty good track record with variants of his lists (several 5-0s), so he knows what he's talking about.
I like his latest MD build, although I would probably still replace the Crystal Vein for the 4th Cavern for more uncounterable goodness and one more white source for Displacer.
