[Deck] 43 Lands

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Originally Posted by El Gringo

Which hands we need to mulligan ? Hands whit no Manabond or Exploration or Mox ?

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Mulligan this deck aggressively.
The deck is similar to a combo deck with 2 Combo pieces (Loam, Acceleration). So you should mulligan nearly every 7 card hand without both pieces or one piece and Intuition. A hand without acceleration, but with good lands, Loam and Intuition is not optimal, but on the play I would keep it.
If you have information about your opponent, that changes things of course (for example having Zuran Orb vs. Burn or Tabernacle vs. Elves is almost always a keep).

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Originally Posted by El Gringo

How we can hold an Extirpate on Life in G2 ?

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Playing around Extirpate is nearly impossible. If your opponent plays other spells with Mana Cost 1 and you KNOW he has Extirpate you can try to go for Chalice at 1, but usually it is nearly impossible to play around. Extirpate is just a very good card against this deck. If you have Crucible in your sideboard, side it in of course.

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Originally Posted by El Gringo

Whan we have to side in Smokestak and Crucuble ?

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Both are pretty much for what the cards say ;)
Crucible is sided in against decks that get rid of your loam, against the mirror and against control decks. Smokestack is good against slow decks with few permanents like Bant.

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Originally Posted by El Gringo

Which is the correct way to use Glacial Chasm ?

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If you suspect that your opponent has no Wastelands (like Zoo), you should recur it with Loam every turn so that you can go for the win aggressively and take no creature damage (or Chain Lightning damage). Against aggressive decks with Wastelands (Merfolk, Goblins) or ways to counter your recursion (Bant) use it to buy you a couple of turns, but don't ignore board control or they will keep a Wasteland in their hand and kill you in one attack. Against these decks you have to figure out every turn what is the best play based on the board, there is no easy way. Sometimes you just have to gamble that they dont have Wasteland, sometimes you can play around Wasteland.

Thank You !

Where i can find a list of the match up whit most played deck ?

Can you give me some instructions to how i have to play against graveyard hate ?

Thanks

Use Tranquil Thicket to play around Tormod's Crypt or Relic of Progenitus. They activate it and you respond by cycling Thicket dredging Loam back to your hand.

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Originally Posted by El Gringo

I'm a n00b of 43 Lands deck. Can i make same question ? (Sorry for my horrible english...)

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Originally Posted by El Gringo

Which hands we need to mulligan ? Hands whit no Manabond or Exploration or Mox ?

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Generally, yes. You want to see Manabond / Exploration and Loam. However, depending on the matchup, there are some "sloppy keeps" I've made; hands with multiple ports and wastelands with Loam are usually a go for me. I rarely keep a hand with just Manabond.

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Originally Posted by El Gringo

How we can hold an Extirpate on Life in G2 ?

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Extirpate can be beaten in two ways: 1. Port their black mana on your turn, and keep Extirpate in your hand by using cycling lands to recover it from your graveyard immediately.

2. Board in Crucible / other cards.

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Originally Posted by El Gringo

Whan we have to side in Smokestak and Crucuble ?

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Smokestack comes in against any slow matchup. Landstill, CB-Top, etc. Any matchup where they don't have a fast clock and don't run stupid numbers of permanents.

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Originally Posted by El Gringo

Which is the correct way to use Glacial Chasm ?

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Glacial Chasm is a skill-testing card. Typically, I'll play it, leave it for a turn and then sacrifice it the following turn (costing 2 life total) Against some decks like dredge, I'll leave it out until I'm almost dead.

I have some questions regarding playstyle of the deck.

If your opening hand contains Mox Diamond, land for it, Exploration, Manabond and 3 any other cards (no more copies of Exploration or Bond),
what would you play first, your bond or exploration ?
Assuming you're on the play/draw and against an opponent who can counter your spells...?

If you're playing against opp able to counter your spells, what is the most crucial thing to resolve? Acceleration or Intuition?

Let's imagine we don't have a Loam in hand, neither in GY. Opponent plays Zoo and it's our 3rd turn, we had an Intuition in our opening hand and we can cast it right now. Would you had mulliganed this hand if it included Intu, Exploration and mana enough to cast both? Would you cast Intuition and pick which 3 cards?

Which are the most common intuition piles you usually make?

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Originally Posted by Davetradint

Let's imagine we don't have a Loam in hand, neither in GY. Opponent plays Zoo and it's our 3rd turn, we had an Intuition in our opening hand and we can cast it right now. Would you had mulliganed this hand if it included Intu, Exploration and mana enough to cast both? Would you cast Intuition and pick which 3 cards?

Which are the most common intuition piles you usually make?

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That's a tough question in vacuum)) You are playing vs zoo, turn 3 means that probably you are at around 10 life and you might as well be dead next turn, worst case scenario. So intuition doesn't really help on your turn (might as well cast it eot), cause you want (probably) loam, glacial chasm and tolaria west to find zuran orb later (you do run zuran x 1 main, right?). This is the pile I would make, but still in vacuum withut board position it's hard to tell. What I mean is - if you don't have explore on the table by this time - you can go pack, but why would you keep a hand without explore/loam anyway? MORE INFO IS NEEDED TO ANSWER COMPETENTLY. chasm, loam TW is my best guess...
Sorry, didn't see that we had explore, intu and mana - how can you mulligan this??? vs zoo it's almost goldfish, but it cannot be your 3rd turn, cause u play explore 1st turn, and than cast intuition eot 2nd turn anyhow. You grab loam, west chasm and proceed to do all the unfair things with zoo this deck is so capable of - which start with finding orb and then proceed to killing zoo at your leisure.

Well If you are playing against zoo, and you can end of turn the intuition, grab the loam, E.E.(hoping there's no teeg on the board) and a tolaria west unless you already had one then grab a tranquil thicket. Odds are 2-3 of their creatures have cmc = 1 so the e.e. on your main phase saves you. Then it should be a win from that point because you have the west into a tabernacle, and or zuran orb. If there is a goyf on the board I'd do a Intuition for say... loam+maze of ith+ e.e. that way you can deal with any cmc=1 creatures and play maze to deal with that goyf.

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Originally Posted by AegeanC

you can end of turn the intuition, grab the loam, E.E.(hoping there's no teeg on the board) and a tolaria west unless you already had one then grab a tranquil thicket.

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Seriously??? So zoo player hands you loam and drops ee and tw to graveyard - then what? I mean - EE?? vs zoo? without at least academy to rcur it? I'd say it's a hard gamble and what zoo player would actually hand you EE off intuition?? He must be some zoo player than..)))

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Originally Posted by Davetradint

I have some questions regarding playstyle of the deck.

If your opening hand contains Mox Diamond, land for it, Exploration, Manabond and 3 any other cards (no more copies of Exploration or Bond),
what would you play first, your bond or exploration ?
Assuming you're on the play/draw and against an opponent who can counter your spells...?

If you're playing against opp able to counter your spells, what is the most crucial thing to resolve? Acceleration or Intuition?

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Intuition, almost every day of the week. Getting Loam, Wasteland online game 1 is a virtual win against any form of Landstill-esq control deck. Getting Loam, Academy Ruins, Engineered Explosives against a Counterbalance-based control deck is equally absurd.

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Originally Posted by Davetradint

Let's imagine we don't have a Loam in hand, neither in GY. Opponent plays Zoo and it's our 3rd turn, we had an Intuition in our opening hand and we can cast it right now. Would you had mulliganed this hand if it included Intu, Exploration and mana enough to cast both? Would you cast Intuition and pick which 3 cards?

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Assuming this is on my opponent's end step on turn 2, my board was 3 lands, and I was at 10 life or less (or so), I would get:

Loam, Tolaria West, Glacial Chasm

I would keep chasm for a turn, tutoring up Zuran Orb. On the second turn with Chasm, sac it to Zuran Orb in response to the trigger, hope he doesn't have enough burn to blow you out and win. Depending on your mana situation, fetching up Tabernacle (against an inexperienced player) or Wasteland / Port can also be prudent. This is incredibly situationally dependent, as his lands and your life total decide your course of action.

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Which are the most common intuition piles you usually make?

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Preboard:
3x Manabond
3x Exploration
Loam, Academy Ruins, Engineered Explosives
Loam, Academy Ruins, Ensnaring Bridge
Loam, 2x Wasteland
Loam, 2x Port
Loam, 2x Maze of Ith
Loam, Tabernacle, Wasteland
Loam, Fetchland, Tolaria West
Loam, 2x Mishra's Factory

This is probably 90% of situations pre-board. Post-board gets more interesting.

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Originally Posted by Davetradint

If your opening hand contains Mox Diamond, land for it, Exploration, Manabond and 3 any other cards (no more copies of Exploration or Bond),
what would you play first, your bond or exploration ?
Assuming you're on the play/draw and against an opponent who can counter your spells...?

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Totally depends on whether those other 3 cards are lands or not. I'd 99% lead with Exploration. Why would I want Manabond? There are some corner-case scenarios in which you want to drop 2 Maze turn 1 but I guess we can rule that out approaching your question from a general direction. On the draw I might be more tempted to go for Manabond IF I have 2 Port+Mana to activate both right away. If I only have 1 Port I can play Exploration and still activate it with Mox. If my opponent can counter my spells I'd happily sacrifice Exploration to Force and play Manabond second turn. /edit: even on the play usually 1 port is enough so I'd still lead with Exploration, Mox + Port. Unless of course my opponent somehow played 2 lands turn 1 and I want to port them asap (like in the mirror).

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If you're playing against opp able to counter your spells, what is the most crucial thing to resolve? Acceleration or Intuition?

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Depends on the circumstances. Against slow, real controldecks Intuition is obviously much more important. Againsst aggro-control you should usually try to resolve your acceleration on turn 1&2 anyway as Intuition would otherwise just run into Daze. I see no reason to not lead with my acceleration in general.
You question is a bit twisted as I see no opposition between Acceleration and Intuition as the first makes sure the second has a higher chance of resolving.

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Let's imagine we don't have a Loam in hand, neither in GY. Opponent plays Zoo and it's our 3rd turn, we had an Intuition in our opening hand and we can cast it right now. Would you had mulliganed this hand if it included Intu, Exploration and mana enough to cast both? Would you cast Intuition and pick which 3 cards?

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Really, what's wrong with that hand? It includes acceleration AND Intuition (=Loam) AND enough mana.. which is like super-43-wonderLand. Obviously sincee you didn't cast Intuition at end of turn 2 you ALSO have a combination of 2 Wasteland/Maze of Ith which seems EVEN greater against Zoo. Never ever mulligana that hand!

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Which are the most common intuition piles you usually make?

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Preboard:
3x Manabond
3x Exploration
Loam, Academy Ruins, Engineered Explosives
Loam, Academy Ruins, Ensnaring Bridge
Loam, 2x Wasteland
Loam, 2x Port
Loam, 2x Maze of Ith
Loam, Tabernacle, Wasteland
Loam, Fetchland, Tolaria W
plus Loam, 2x Ghost Quarter if I have Manabond. Also works with Exploration but with Manabond it's even greater.
If you already have Manabond AND Loam you can go straight away for what you really need 3x like Maze, Wasteland, Port, Ghost Quarter. If you wanna play it save go for Academy Ruins, EE / Oblivion Stone + Cycling Land/Tolaria West.

People would be suprised how often 3x Manabond is in fact the corect play.

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Originally Posted by Julian23

plus Loam, 2x Ghost Quarter if I have Manabond. Also works with Exploration but with Manabond it's even greater.
If you already have Manabond AND Loam you can go straight away for what you really need 3x like Maze, Wasteland, Port, Ghost Quarter. If you wanna play it save go for Academy Ruins, EE / Oblivion Stone + Cycling Land/Tolaria West.

People would be suprised how often 3x Manabond is in fact the corect play.

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I forgot about Ghost Quarter and Oblivion Stone entirely. (I don't have a foil Oblivion Stone yet either)

It's really the sort of thing the more you play the more ingrained it gets, so just keep playing. If you come to a board situation where you don't know what to do, post the full situation on here and I'm sure we'll be able to help you out.

Thank you guys for the help!

I am still to make some changes to de deck, but I'd like to hear experienced opinions.
Ghostquarter: is the second copy needed?
Mindslaver: Should we cut it in O.Stone favour?

More detailed situations:

Our opening 7: Exploration, Manabond, Intuition, Maze, Fetch, Factory, Factory.

We are on the draw, opp plays island, cursecatcher (we know he's playing merfolk)

- Situation A.1: We draw Mox Diamond, then we'd play ...

my guess is that we'd play fetch, get basic forest, try to resolve Mox D., then try to resolve bond or exploration, then try to play around daze/catcher. Thoughts?

- Situation A.2: We draw a second copy of Exploration, then.....

we know that our first piece of acceleration will be countered, so would we make them spend one of their counters? or take a turn to play around daze?

- Situation B.1: Our hand is T. Island, Fetch, Port, Wasteland, Exploration, EE, Intuition.

Opponent goes first dropping fetch for any dual, then Nacatl.

Our draw is another Fetchland. Would you drop mana for exploration, then waste his land? or would you look for a long-term strategy?

- Situation B.2: We get a Maze of Ith....then?

- B.3: Opponent cracked his fetch for a basic land and dropped a critter. He may look for a dual next turn... so we have to choose between mazing the critter or..?

I'l post more complex situations later. Thank you guys!!!

A1. You are perfectly right - pitch maze to mox, after you fetch a forest, then play exploration, then manabond - if he wants to counter bond - that's just perfectly fine, cause the more chances we'll resolve intuition next turn.. But here we are betting heavily on intuition and it can get wery ugly if he somehow stops it.
A2. We're pretty screwed, I'd lead with explore for the same reasons - if he wants to counter, we care even less now. Between maze and mishra's we should be able to hold the ground until we get mana to play around daze/catcher, and it's REALLY lucky you didn't get 1st turn vial from merfolk - that's where troubles usually begin :))
B1. T island, explore, waste his dual - if he goes another land-one drop next turn - explosive at 1 will buy you A LOT of time, you can even take some damage for a turn, trading it for ability to lock his land with a port if you draw some more lands. - or you can EE, then intuition right away on 3rd turn - probly more correct thing to do.
B2. We definitely EE 2nd turn, after that intuition safely from behind a maze.
B3 looks kinda similair to B1 :)) I suppose it's another zoo, so follow the same pattern)) (oh, there is basic land involved.. then maze is definitely the right land to play after explore - we have time to waste a land and port on the next turn. or go intuition for loam, tabernacle, maze). This deck is highly interactive, so what opp plays and how makes all the difference in the world))

NEWS FLASH. Re-read Cursecatcher.

ASSUMING ALL ARE GAME 1.

A1: Fetch -> Forest, Mox Diamond pitch Maze, Exploration.

If Exploration resolves, play Factory, pass. Play Factory, drawn card (if it's a land) End step Intuition for Loam, Tabernacle, Port.

A2: Force him to Daze, as it's a tempo-loss for him without Vial. Play out Explorations first, then drop Manabond last.


B1: Trop, Exploration, Wasteland. Untap, play 2 lands, cast Intuition on his end step for Loam, Tolaria West, Tabernacle / Glacial Chasm. At this stage of the game, all you want to do is stop him from casting a Lethal Price of Progress, so keep that number in your head all game.

B2: Same plan.

B3: Exploration, Maze of Ith.

The difference between B1 and B3 is the value you get from Wasteland. Zoo doesn't run all that many lands, and setting them back on mana a turn is huge. The games you lose are the games they get triple Nacatl or burn heavy draws, and cutting off mana is huge. However, when he leads with a basic, being able to resolve T2 Intuition is so huge in this matchup, as turn 3 loam setting up the win is incredible. Playing Maze of Ith effectively saves you 3 life, giving you more time to set up. Also, Chasm lock is really what you want to do in this matchup, because they have price of progress. Simply controlling creatures isn't enough.

When was the last time people tinkered with Valakut builds? I've been playing Valakut and have so far found it to be very effective.

I don't see why I would want to run Scapeshift in that deck. You have absolutly no way to make sure it resolves. Another big downside are the design constraints Valakut causes.
/edit: Are you running Boseiju? Still, why would such a deck do better?

I said "Valakut," not "Scapeshift." Despite the historical association, the two cards are not innately bound together.

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Originally Posted by Antonius

When was the last time people tinkered with Valakut builds? I've been playing Valakut and have so far found it to be very effective.

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Can you post your valakut list? What match-ups are easier/harder for you comparing to traditional list?

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Originally Posted by Julian23

Still, why would such a deck do better?

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Hey everyone! I'd really like to see this thread alive and kicking, especially sine I finally started to buy all those oh-so-expensive cards for this deck. And the general question to all people who are hanging here for a while - can you post your sideboards and give a quick heads-up on how do you sideboard and how you play around hate cards? (I noticed leyline as been the most prevalent, relic and ravenous trap coming after and occasional extirpate in sideboards)