Glad someone still uses the deck :)
After playing the other decks I can't seem to go back to U/R Delver lol
Red needs a power up in Legacy.. Badly!
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Glad someone still uses the deck :)
After playing the other decks I can't seem to go back to U/R Delver lol
Red needs a power up in Legacy.. Badly!
To my fellow U/R Delver players. I feel very strongly about playing "smash to smithereens" instead of "smelt".
S2S can get you out from under chalice on 1 and also maintains the tempo that this deck needs.
In terms of maintaining tempo I feel that Smelt is significantly better in this regard, the 1 mana makes too much of a difference, especially with Snapcaster.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mythic Games
If you expect a lot of chalice of the void in your metagame then I could understand playing Smash to Smithereens, I don't think the difference is really all that significant anyway
I don't know. In general I think he's a better player than I am. Maybe it's just an idea he wanted to try or somethingQuote:
Originally Posted by H3llsp4wn
Search this thread. This discussion has come up several times already.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mythic Games
Smash to Smithereens is obviously the better card, but that doesn't mean it is the right choice. If you have to play against Chalice of the Void on a regular basis then playing Smelt would be pretty dumb and you should definitely play Smash to Smithereens. In fact, the reason I started playing Smelt in the first place was to beat the Spell Pierces out of Stoneblade, but now that none of the lists are playing Spell Pierce (at least the deathblade decks aren't) it might be correct to go back. I'm not sure though, I really like the 1 mana for Snapcaster.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mythic Games
The only time I cast smelt in the 2 events it got Negated (like, the actual card Negate) so I don't exactly have the most useful sample size
This is the list with which I'm trying to incorporate Young Pyromancer. The approach is to max out on ''free'' spells as much as possible and to reduce the number of ''dead'' cards g1. This is why 3-4 Price of Progress and 1-2 Grim Lavamancer would be mandatory in the sideboard. The 2 Vapor Snag could become a Spell Pierce and a Gitaxian Probe. What do you guys think?
4 Goblin Guide
4 Delver of Secrets
2 Grim Lavamancer
3 Snapcaster Mage
3 Young Pyromancer
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
2 Spell Pierce
2 Vapor Snag
4 Brainstorm
3 Gitaxian Probe
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Chain Lightning
2 Volcanic Island
3 Island
3 Mountain
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Arid Mesa
If you're running into a lot of Chalice decks, isn't Shattering Spree really where you want to be? Getting to :r::r: or even :r::r::r: shouldn't be that difficult with this deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew.Schneider
Shattering Spree is a sorcery, I'd rather have Smash that deals 3 damage as well.
The card is reasonable, but you need to have the instant speed for the stoneblade matchup.Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Cheese
I run 2 Smash to Smithereens & 1 Shattering Spree because of abnormally great number of Affinity & Chalice decks in local metagames, also Nivmagus elemental is even more 1 drop filled than normal list, though spree also has nice synergy with Nivmagus.
But Schneider is absolutely right that instant speed is where you wanna be against Stoneblade, especially if mystic lives.
Played legacy tournament yesterday.
Etched Champion is such a pain. How do you deal with that?
I have 3 Smash to S. in side and they are good against the rest but against affinity I am control and he just keep coming.
I was thinking of Jitte but, if Champion is on defense, the Jitte will never get counters (unless I have flipped Delver).
The best card for me was Price of Progress but Ravager can nullify that plan.
Possible SB material? Not sure if it does anything better than Sulfuric Vortex but at least we're on the right track.
http://media.wizards.com/images/magi...YT4nmVe_EN.jpg
Mindsparker is pure trash for legacy. Maybe some other format.
In a meta with Chalice and Trinisphere, and with occasional Affinities, I used to play Meltdown. With X=2 (cmc3) all the affinity lands are destroyed + all the small dudes + equipement + acceleration. Then, you will probably be able to kill the 2/2 with any removalQuote:
Originally Posted by FANAttIC
I'm tired of Goblin Guide. Even with the white splash you still have to clear the way for your ghast. I don't want to worry about foe's creatures at all, really. At least Goblin Baloon Brigade or Cloud of Faries has evasion, LOL. I'm not sure NivMagus card disadvantage is worth it either. I think the new Young Pyromancer might be too slow also, as is Guttersnipe and Talrand. But I'm not satisfied with that GG slot at all and see few good replacements .
The new vid on SCG shows UR getting it's ass handed to it by DnT, exposing many of the decks problems, though GG isn't as horrible there as it is againat green decks, though GG helps him get his Ports online earlier.
As someone new to this deck, that vid made me wonder if I made the right choice. It seems like the DnT deck has way better draws against us and if we don't get early pressure (t1 or t2) then it's prob a loss. I thought the whole point of guide was to get 4-6 damage through early then let your burn/delver/lavamancer get you there. I really want this deck to be good, but, damn, I do not want to get my ass handed to me match in, match out like that vid.Quote:
Originally Posted by beez
You can't win every matchup. Be a man and board Sulfur Elemental if you expect plenty of white dorks. (Creatures, not the players)
Can you link the video? :)
Geez kids, that's where sideboards and metagaming comes in.
If the later were the case I would have 4 Sulfur Elementals in every MTG deck I ever took to a tourny ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by HammafistRoob
It is true the guy had no Sulfur Elementals in his board and was perhaps over enamoured with PoP to run 4 of them in 75.
http://www.starcitygames.com/article...UR-Delver.htmlQuote:
Originally Posted by blindspotxxx
DnT isn't a very good matchup. So have a plan: board for it or try to dodge, both are fine choices. My plan is to dodge and if that fails, get lucky. Legacy is deep, you can win almost any matchup if you think hard enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by beez
And by get his Ports online earlier you mean make your Prices castable right?
From my experience it is winnable but they are favored. Sometimes burn to the dome and race them will get there. Playing the long game will be rough
So I'm buying into this deck after selling most of my Jund duals. I'm just lacking the Volcanic Islands and SCMs. I'm tired of just dying to combo lol, and I'm planning to build American Delver in the future so this seems to be a good deck to start.
Anyway, can anyone give a rough breakdown of the deck's matchups? I'm sure it has been discussed somewhere, but I guess with new tech and all everywhere maybe a refresher course would help :D
Here's some useful articles written by Andrew Schneider :Quote:
Originally Posted by sherko7
http://www.starcitygames.com/article...In-Legacy.html
http://roxiecards.com/sideboarding-i...ith-ur-delver/
This deck ain't really the deck to beat combo unless you jam your sideboard with it. TES and Sneak Show are truly rough games. Hive mind and the other 3 card combos are easier but still you need to set up your sideboard. Flusterstorm is a must now :)Quote:
Originally Posted by sherko7
I've been playing with 4 young pyromancers in this deck and it has been ridiculous so far. It is hands down the best card in this deck, it's even better than delver. I've cut Snapcaster because 3cc is quite high for this deck as I want to be able to operate off 2 lands.
Here's the list:
4 Delver
4 Goblin Guide
3 Grim
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Force
4 Daze
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Bolt
4 Chain
2 Dismember
1 Fireblast
10 fetch
4 Volcanic
4 Wasteland
Why play dismember over price? And the wastelands main deck? Right now i'd have to say price of progress is the best card in the deck. But i can see what your plan is, it's out tempo them while beating with 1/1s. I still believe some number of snapcasters are still great. What match ups are you crushing so far? God i'm now tempted to use this deck on our weekly legacy to try it out. So we finally have our red confidant? Uncommon ftw
Yeah, somehow with all those spells, Snapcasters are the weakest links and I am also planning to include YP-s in deck, but with more velocity spells (Gitaxian Probe, Thoughtscour) that also clear Brainstorm lock and put stuff in the grave for Mancer. Unfortunately I am not good deckbuilder and GP Rimini is too close to have optimal decklist. Probably another go for trusty merfolk at sideevents when I fail to day2.
I've been testing your list and it has been great I've beaten a lot of the decks to beat. I just dislike the manabase as basic lands are one of U/R Delver's strengths. What sideboard did you prepare? I'm a little lost with it lol I also removed the Fireblast for a Spell Pierce.Quote:
Originally Posted by ivanpei
Even if it was said the Snapcaster was the weakest link in testing, if you are already running the Wastelands and no Price, why not just add Stifles and Snapcasters and do away with Goblin Guide?Quote:
Originally Posted by blindspotxxx
So far what happens is you kill them before they can stabilize because of Guide and a lot of 1/1s but yeah that could also work. If we go for that framework why not just go Patriot Delver with Pyromancers I think that would be strongerQuote:
Originally Posted by beez
I mean I'd imagine Flusterstorm should have been there from the start, but from my experience this deck is one of the better decks in general against almost any combo deck. Ultra fast clocks with counter backup and burn reach, RUG doesn't even have quite so good a matchup against combo as this deck does. In fact I'd say more often this deck's worst enemy is itself. When I was playing it (cards aren't much different than they are today), I would often need just a few more points of damage and rip a brainstorm, brainstorm into fetch, fetch, daze, and lose. But when it draws well and you find the right balance of burns and counters and creatures, it's silly how strong it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by blindspotxxx
I tried price of progress instead of Dismember at first. It was... so-so. In some. Mus, it's a total blowout. While those with stable mana bases can handle price. Also since the deck involves alot of 1/1s you really need alot of removal to keep the board clear. Even a puny 2/2 gaddock teeq or a 1/2 deathrite can stop the 1/1 token beats. You literally have to clear every single blocker. I've also change up the list slightly. I cut 3 chains for 3 Forked bolt. The 1 Fireblast is flex and I'm testing the 3rd Dismember in the slot. Thsi decks primary weakness is big dudes. A goyf/kotr can block tokens and goblin guide. Dismember is just insurance. Forked bolt is great for occasional 2 for 1s. Also I like that you can ping a 1 toughness due for 1 and the opponent for 1 as well. Generally forked bolt is more useful by a slim margin.
As for the manabase, it's OK for me. Lots of fetches are good for Grim and you really can't afford. Basics unfortunately. The whole deck can operate off a Volc and a wasteland so I like that. This deck is blazing fast and young pyromancer is so much better than goyf in this sort of deck. It's abit like Stoneforge, if you get the turn back, you've won more or less.
So far, it's been good against most of the DTBs. I'm even positive against GW Maverick which surprised even myself. Young pyromancer is such a house.
I never thought of Maverick as a bad matchup, so why is that surprising?
Good Maverick player is a rough match up.
@Ivanpei
what does your sideboard look like? I'd assume you're going with Submerges as compared to more burn right?
I like the idea of keeping it to just two colors and not being so greedy with the manabase or necessarily having to use swords to clear the board but rather just swarm past them. If they are leaving a goyf back to block your one ones then you have already won. Forked bolts to clear the blocking and advantage of bobs and DRS.Quote:
Originally Posted by blindspotxxx
Maybe this is insane, but if big dudes are the problem, have you looked at Flash of Defiance? The only thing this doesn't really deal with is Batterskull, but outside of that it seems pretty hard to beat in terms of pure value. Mom, spirit tokens, Goyfs, Knights, Mongeese, DRS, all of the Elves, so on. Seems at least worth testing in the board.Quote:
Originally Posted by ivanpei