Don't run MB Traps.
Fill the slots with Birchlore Rangers
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Don't run MB Traps.
Fill the slots with Birchlore Rangers
Geeeez ... Telling peeps about dropping MBT is like talking against a wall ...Quote:
Originally Posted by Kayradis
If he's running Reid's list, he already has 3 Llanowars in there ... I doubt he want's 3 Birchlores in addition to them while having 4 DRS + 20 Lands ... but that's another old Story like MBT
@bruizar:
As an example, here's my SB for an unknown meta.
3 x Abrupt Decay
1 x Harmonic Sliver
1 x Gaddock Teeg
1 x Progenitus
4 x Cabal Therapy (Can be swapped for Thoughtseize)
1 x Qasali Pridemage
2 x Thorn Of Amethysm
1 x Thalia, Guardian Of Thraben
1 x Meekstone
Cheers
@Kayradis: Sideboard looks good so far, but Sliver and Pridemage? Maybe one more Meekstone/Ooze?
@Spoiler: .... - So we get nothing
Some weird Theros Options:
Xenagos, the Reveler: Not better than Garruk Wildspeaker (which has a good synergie but loses to Natural Order)
Polukranos, World Eater: Solid Body and castable, but only good against other tribes/mirror IF you can use the ability, which means untap with that guy / also canīt shot down a 4/5 gofy (unless you have enough mana to win via Zenith or Hardcast Hoof)
Nemesis of Mortals: Solid Body, and easy to cast if we fight against removal/sweeper heavy decks and can get a 10/10 without evasion (...) Normally NO into Progenitus is the weapon of choice (if you not play against RUG), the Hydra God is harder to setup but you gain a better creature
Arbor Colossus: Yeah, really weird idea, but 6/6 with reach for 5 Mana is a solid creature
Each Monster are harmed from Submerge and white exile spells, but that is a general problem besides Progenitus (or Thrun) I think we have to wait for the next set/commander release...
Still searching for an option besides the 4th Natural Order and Progenitus.
Prophet of Kruphix looks totally unnessacry but cool. The idea of combing off in someone else's turn in response to them declaring an attack... Yea so many better options, but trolling is fun.
Sent from my mobile, forgive spelling and grammatical errors.
Edit:
Creatures only get Flash... Dam now trolling is not even an option.
Ok guys, need some input. This is my list right now:
Creatures
4x Birchlore Rangers
2x Craterhoof Behemoth
4x Deathrite Shaman
1x Dryad Arbor
4x Elvish Visionary
4x Heritage Druid
4x Nettle Sentinel
3x Quirion Ranger
4x Wirewood Symbiote
Sorcery
4x Glimpse of Nature
4x Green Sun's Zenith
4x Natural Order
Land
2x Bayou
1x Savannah
1x Taiga
4x Gaea's Cradle
8x Fetches
2x Forest
Sideboard
3x Abrupt Decay
4x Cabal Therapy
1x Gaddock Teeg
1x Harmonic Sliver
1x Progenitus
1x Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
2x Scavenging Ooze
1x Umezawa's Jitte
What I want to do is put Shaman maindeck again and put 3 Meekstone in the side. My thoughts was cutting Jitte, an Ooze and the place made by moving Shaman. But I would like to know what others think. Also I have no idea what to cut from the main to make space. So I open to the floor for ideas.
Thanks.
Sent from my mobile, forgive spelling and grammatical errors.
Thanks I will slightly adjust my sideboard plan. I will be facing at least 2 good players who are on mono red (goblins and painter). Any suggestions for hate?
It's been said a dozen times that you need more than eight fetches. There's no opinion behind that, just hard numbers.
Why are you ignoring Reid's list like it's not better than the Birchlore-lists you guys have been trying to support?
Racing goblins is not hard. They do not often have a lot of burn until after they side. Once they side I would go down the "Hold your cards and don't overextend" route. If they are running with the white splash you might see a Cannonest. Jitte works in this situation as well as Motarpod and art hate. Decay is MVP tho. Lastly, kill Vials as fast as you can. You really hurt goblins when you do. Think of it as killing 3 or more land at once. It really is that important to the goblins plan.
Against Painter, Art hate and decay. Mono red Painter can be very fast, but the sad truth is that when playing Painter, you have to draw your stone naturally. There is no tutor for it. So kill it when it hits the table. If Painter is dropped early Kill it too. Because once everything is blue they can interact, until that point they have nothing.
First turn Moon is a killer. Fetch your basics first always. But know unless they have that first turn moon or second turn kill your likely going to be ok. Elves is not a deck I like to see when playing Painter. I will personally try and stick a moon then Painter on blue in that order. Decay kills both.
Also last point. Remember to float mana when moon hits, the Decay it. A pain in the ass that is.
Sent from my mobile, forgive spelling and grammatical errors.
personally. I think the "You must have more that 8 fetches" is bull. I do just fine without the 9th. As for Reid's list. Please post out to me where that's the new gold standard. Because right now I have not seen a lot of talk on it and what talk I have seen mostly was on Regal Force. I like my Birchlores and have not seen a good reason to change. Yes a build did well without them but that not to say that we should suddenly take up that one build based on one win.Quote:
Originally Posted by igri_is_a_bk
Sent from my mobile, forgive spelling and grammatical errors.
Edit. Can't quote and edit and stuff easily on my phone. That's the reason for the double post.
Thanks,
Right now my sideboard is:
3 abrupt decay
3 thoughtseize
3 cabal therapy
1 thorn
1 teeg
1 jitte
1 scavenging ooze
1 meekstone
1 Qasali pridemage
How important is Progenitus? I could play it but would need to remove 1 seize / therapy or something from the sideboard
Fetches and the odds of seeing at least one in your opening seven.
8 = 65.4%
9 = 70.0%
10 = 74.1%
I would not say ~10% is bull. But seriously, do you think LSV, Matt Nass, and Reid Duke were wrong? That's kinda funny to me. They're genuinely at the top of the American player pool.
What I like most when I have a fetch is a fetch target. Also I have the option of eating everyone's else's fetches. In a meta that has 2 38 land decks, 3 SnT decks, 2 12 post decks and almost everything else is armed with Wastelands, I am ok on 8. I am no fool. I understand the numbers but I am not running down to the SCG torny and I am not playing on a US stage. I am playing at my card shop. So I am not tweaking my deck against unknown quantities. That is why I asked for ideas while also placing my own thoughts down.
As for talking about Birchlore Rangers, I would love to hear everyone's thoughts on this because my views have yet to change. I have admitted I was wrong in the past, I am sure I will have to do it again, but right now I see no reason to drop past 3 of the card. It's useful and the off mana it offers just helps. I can Morph it to get past a local Pox players Plagues and I can use it to speed up my deck. I am happy to hear what everyone has to say but right now I hold that card in fairly high regard.
Sent from my mobile, forgive spelling and grammatical errors.
After Reid's win with 0 Birchlore I am going to go back and try some mana dorks in their place for a few weeks and see how how it feels.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dice_Box
Elves on camera right now
round 4 of the 2013 legacy open in atlanta.
aaaaand he has 4 basics and a bayou in play at the moment
EDIT: He just won game one versus Young Tokens.
I ran into too much issues with only 8 Fetchlands, especially when going second. The easiest solution was going to 10 Fetchlands and I feel fine now. Every now and then my DRS goes to bed hungry, but at least that was the most I can do. Also, it's not like you're going to fetch more than 4 times in a match anyways.
BAD elves player on camera.
Quirion untap DRS, replay land, GSZ for Visionary is too hard, it seems : /
Missed Neetle Sentinel untap trigger.
Did not return Fauna Shaman with Wirewood Symbiote.
UNTAPED Neetle Sentinel at untap step.
With bad lines of play all long the match.
he is just bad and bad.
...Did he just pass without the a lethal swing / Bonfire effect?
@Goblins
I board in all copies of Decay and sometimes the 4th Natural Order. I hold Decay for the Goblin Sharpshooter and pray that they aren't smart enough to hold the Sharpshooter in hand until it can be hasty via Warchief. Otherwise I feel that the matchup is very much in our favor. As long as you don't let them get Sharpshooter active, you can typically assemble a lethal Hoof before they can overwhelm you. Also, be careful about the very first turn. If they lead with Lackey, things can be tricky. I will be more than happy to trade my 1 drop for their Lackey, or I'll just LUL as I drop a Nettle Sentinel/DRS and make them cry.
Lackey and Sharpshooter. That's all you need to be paranoid about.
@Painter
I tested this matchup a little bit after its recent strong finishes. Only for like an hour or something. But I found that I need to dodge the early Blood Moon and the naturally drawn Painter+Stone combo. If they don't have those godhands, then they take a bit too much time to assemble their combo and our fundamental turn happens a turn before theirs. I also have 1 maindeck Viridian Shaman which was useful in slowing them down. You do autolose to a turn 1 Blood Moon though.
@Fetchlands
I run 8 but am looking to go up to 9, if not 10. The biggest issue here is that I'm a spoiled brat and play fully foiled and finding two more foil fetches is a pain in my ass. But I fully understand the grok the merits of playing 8+ fetches. Also, going past 8 fetches for me would involve cutting my 2nd basic Forest or my Savannah or the 2nd Dryad Arbor. None of those seem like exciting cuts at the moment so I'm a bit indecisive right now on where I want to go IRT to the 9th fetch. Also, there have been *plenty* of times when I play a DRS and just have to pray that my opponent has a couple fetches for me to eat. That never feels good.
@Birchlore+Reid Duke, The Guardian of Gaea
I tested 3 of these in my last big tourney (100 players). They were nice to have and definitely allowed me to do some stupid stuff earlier than I normally could. But I never actually felt they helped me win a game I wouldn't otherwise have already been able to win. What I mean by that it is they felt very Win-More. After Reid's finish I've been back to testing 2 Llanowar, 1 Birchlore. I really forgot how much I missed going Forest, Llanowar, go. I think I like it more than leading with Deathrite. The stability of always having a Turn 1 Manadork is just a timeless piece of tech.
Reid's deck was built to be more resilient than explosive. You can tell by the Llanowar count, the high land count, and the no-nonsense list full of 4-ofs. For the larger SCG meta, I think this is the correct way to build the deck. I think the deck designer, Mister Cuneo, wanted to be able to keep every opening 7 he could possibly draw. So he geared the deck to be as reliable as possible.
Also, upping the Llanowar count allows you to more easily recover from board wipes and win through grindy attrition matches. The difference is rather subtle, but in the matches where it counts, it really counts.
@ the SCG match right now
The player is clearly on a budget list. 2 Cradles. No arbor. No Crop Rotations to make up for the other Cradles missing. Fauna Shaman. Emrakul. I think he just borrowed the deck the day of the event. Or he just started playing the deck fairly recently. Or he is just a kitchen table dude. And all of those are okay. I still hope he X-0s the event with a suboptimal build and questionable plays. LOL. That would fill my heart with joy.
...and he still won...
@danyul
wrt Goblins - Don't forget Pyrokinesis. That can be devastating.
The Goblin players in my meta started running Warren Weirdings and Pyrewild Shaman (go ahead, look it up!) to let their Turn1 Lackey connect through or at least kill a 1st turn DRS or Sentinel. I loled.
Right. I forgot to mention Pyrokinesis. I just play right through it. You can't really play around it so I just start going. Against Goblins you don't have the luxury of waiting around. They will outdraw you if you let them. The one thing I can say is to play out your elves as if your opponent has shown you a Lightning Bolt and always has a Mountain up. Play your Heritage Druids as late as possible. That way they need to shoot an inconsequential elf to keep you off 3, or they need to let it resolve and give you access to its mana before they get priority to shoot it. Stuff like that. Or play Visionary out before Wirewood, or the other way around, so they are forced to zap the one you care least about before the other resolves and gives you access to value via Visionary bounce. Stuff like that. Small stuff.
What round was the Elf player in? Makes life easy once I am home to know? Thanks.
Sent from my mobile, forgive spelling and grammatical errors.
Edit.
The thing about Pryo, it's kind of like grave hate. You either mull for it hard in your opener, or you just pray to draw it. That's why I like to keep as many cards in my hand as I can and go off at once. Because if they did not start with a god hand or mull hard, they are unlikely to wipe your board but you still have options. If they do have it they have to keep something in their hand to use it with and you offer few choice targets. But as you set up they have to slow you down some how so the card will end up used.
Round 4. The first round of Legacy coverage for the day.
Second round, actually. We've had Merfolk vs Grixis in R3.
Greetings
K thanks.
Sent from my mobile, forgive spelling and grammatical errors.
Ooh. My bad. LOL I woke up just as the Round 4 coverage began so I'm a bit loopy this morning.
another elves feature match! and, lo and behold, versus goblins.
round 5, legacy open, 2013, atlanta
This guy has a proper build too. I think he's on Reid's list. The guy had a grip full of lands and gets overrun by red dudes. :(
What colour is the Goblin build?
Sent from my mobile, forgive spelling and grammatical errors.
Looks monored.
The misplay daggers from that last missed bounce may haunt this guy if he doesn't win.
Another bad elves player.
Jeff King and Joel Wright
Quote:
Originally Posted by yuMi-
LOL what is with this public shaming shit? No need to write their names down like you are going to exile them from the Elven Alliance. The deck is fairly complex and the guy may be nervous from being on camera. And everybody makes mistakes. This game is hard. It's easy to be a bully when you aren't the one playing. He made a misplay in that one moment. I'm sure he will watch the coverage later and never make that mistake again.
An excellent point. We're all learning . . . some of us--read as especially me--have a lot more learning to do than others. I am always glad to see people piloting versions of our deck. When they play well, I learn. When they play poorly, I learn. Of course, when they play better, they usually play longer, which means I learn more.Quote:
Originally Posted by danyul
I'd love to see a post here that includes links to recorded games of people piloting the deck. I know that there are some links throughout the pages, but ti would be nice to have a section in the OP, perhaps, that includes links (and perhaps the minutes where the elves mage is playing.)
Edit: Here, for example, is one link (forgive me if this has already been posted elsewhere, as I know chrandersen posts here): http://www.twitch.tv/chris_vanmeter/b/459597137
Edit2: The link is dead. Apparently they took what was quite a nice twitch video down.
Elves are on, they do not have "Repeat" on the screen so it seems to be live. King is playing.
Elves lost.
Jeff King ( the guy with the budget list i suppose) is 6-0 playing against shardless bug, near to 6-1 anyway. how is possible that people obtain such results with bad lists and playskills ?
Luck and redundancy in the deck? How many other combo decks have so many options of play to them?Quote:
Originally Posted by LeoCop 90