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4 Deathrite Shaman
2 Thrun, the last troll
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
2 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Thought seize
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Restore
2 Toxic Deluge
3 Disfigure
2 Sylvan Library
2 Pithing Needle
3 Lily
2 Garruk Primal Hunter
Here's a version of a GB list I've been brewing for restore:
Based on the straight GB discussion, maybe it's a good idea to drop this:
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
3 Vampire Nighthawk
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Thoughtseize
3 Hymn to Tourach
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Chrome Mox
4 Wasteland
4 Bayou
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Forest
2 Swamp
Sideboard:
2 Mesmeric Fiend
2 Disfigure
3 Duress
2 Golgari Charm
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Massacre
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Thoughtseize
1 Toxic Deluge
Still a WIP. I'd like to tune it more but haven't really gotten around to it.
i know that this is not thread for Dark depths but this list not say ONLY MERIT TO WIN !! its bg rock with option to play 20/20 Pet.
3 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Vampire Hexmage
Here we have our love cards goyf confi shaman. also hexmage is good blocker and walker killer.
4 Hymn to Tourach
2 Cabal Therapy
>>some discard
3 Crop Rotation
>>not only to get combo. also wasteland protection, and we can go for wasteland when we want or Stage to be opponent land.
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Sylvan Library
3 Pithing Needle - good ws wlands, walkers, manland, or another bad card like vial or mystic
3 Liliana of the Veil - great wincon with our life from the loam
2 Life from the Loam
3 Mox Diamond - works with loam and its great way to cast HTT in T1 or after side we can play chalice agains elves or ANT. i love it
Manabase could be better i have always some trouble with it :D
1 Volrath's Stronghold
3 Wasteland
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Bayou
1 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Thespian's Stage
3 Dark Depths
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Marsh Flats
SB: 4 Chalice of the Void - ANT, ELVES
SB: 1 Krosan Grip - Balance, Vial, Mystic package
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction - obv
SB: 2 Engineered Plague - gobos, merfolk, elves
SB: 2 Choke - obv
SB: 1 Golgari Charm
SB: 1 Nihil Spellbomb
SB: 2 Pernicious Deed
i saw BGW list here so i post my BG rock with Depths option. in the other hand i have list with Wishes main:
3 Vampire Hexmage
4 Dark Confidant
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Tarmogoyf
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Crop Rotation
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Cabal Therapy
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Living Wish
4 Thoughtseize
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Forest
1 Marsh Flats
1 Misty Rainforest
2 Bayou
2 Polluted Delta
2 Swamp
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Dark Depths
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Wasteland
3 Pithing Needle
2 Thespian's Stage
SB: 1 Bojuka Bog
SB: 2 Choke
SB: 1 Dark Depths
SB: 2 Extirpate
SB: 1 Karakas
SB: 1 Shriekmaw
SB: 1 Vampire Hexmage
SB: 1 Volrath's Stronghold
SB: 4 Chalice of the Void
SB: 1 Wasteland
Which list is more stable? what is your opinion ? i think 1st is better but this is only me:)
that depends on what you want to accomplish, the first list would not need the DD-Kill, the second one is build around it.
if you want to consistently kill with DD then i would say the second list is more stable given the gameplan, also more versatile but clunky compared to the first list IMO
plus i would never play needle main, never, if you desperately want a needle effect main use Revoker
so... if you want to kill with DD second list is better IMO
For those of us on BGW Tutor boards, I got the idea recently to try out Words of Wild to combo with Sylvan Library against Jace decks. A massive token production factory (3 bears a turn) plus protection against Jace's Ultimate seems good to me...
It might also go against some other decks but I'm not sure at the moment.
that is actually not that bad of an idea, but it would require, as you said a tutor board, plus at least 3 libraries to be effective
it would also be good with dark confidant, still getting to "draw" a card per turn plus getting a 2/2 might be quite usefull
maybe it could also be good in the jund matchup, against liliana effects and basically every creature they play other than goyf is X/2, and punishing fires could not kill 3 bears per turn
try it and tell us the results
It's tech i heard about at the GP where a stompy player used Words of War to beat a Jace ultimate that had RiP/Energy Field soft lock. The Miracles player called a judge to try and get the guy to concede but Stompy wanted to see a win condition...Miracles eventually decked himself.
LOL. That's amazing.
Any new developments or testing? I'm bringing this to the Invi in a week and I was wondering if anyone had any new feedback.
-Matt
I wrote a report about a list I ran last week (its in the report section, T8 at Channel).Quote:
Originally Posted by sdematt
Short version is that Sculler did some good work for me, as did Cabal Pit (if you are on Knight.). I've since added 2 Lilianas and a Nantuko Monastery over 2 janky Chains and a Plains. Not exactly brand new tech, but it's something, and I think Sculler is HOT right now.
I'm contemplating adding 1 DD + 1 Stage, byt that might be going to deep... Even for me.
Nantuko is good sometimes. It helps you dodge Abrupt Decay and works well to fight Jace or Terminus. First Strike lets you run headlong into Baleful Strix or Batterskull with zero cares. If you run Toxic Deluge then you can board wipe and then follow through with a heavy hitter immediately after. You can also fetch it with Knight to pump up your board presence if you need to race.
Othertimes it is an additional colorless land in your opening hand, isn't big enough to tangle with Goyf, and is yet another piece of graveyard-dependent tech.
Overall I enjoyed it.
ETutor -> Chains was fine to me when I needed it. It helped me win against Miracles, kept me in the game against a Show and Tell Griselbrand to pull out the W, and won me a game against ANT. It was a wrong play against Shardless who went aggro, but that was more pilot error than anything else.
I haven't had a chance to test Words of Wilding. I'm tempted to go BWGr and splash sideboard hate of Pyrostatic Pillar and Words of War...or maybe go Hoogloam style with Punishing Fire, Knight, and an ETutor sideboard.
I'm also tempted to test Slaughter Games in the board. Trading 1 Bayou for a Badlands isn't the end of the world, and it gives a decent out to Sneak Attack. Deathrite also helps its castability, and since it only targets Opponents, it can't be Diverted/Misdirected.
I really really like slaughter games. I think it's good right now.
Don't get me wrong, I love Slaughter Games, but only in Jund/Aggro Loam. I think this is what ends up happening with Slaughter Games against Sneak Attack:Quote:
Originally Posted by T-101
You open a hand with a fetch (yay!) and Slaughter Games, but you need other colours of mana to do other stuff. So, you have to keep subpar hands to cast the crucial Slaughter Games on Turn 3/4, or you just get nutted out by Sneak Attack. I feel like Games does good work against, say, Miracles or another reasonable slow deck with a card you can't handle, but I wouldn't run it against Sneak and Show.
They're usually too fast against you, and what do you remove? If you survive until Turn 4 to cast it, does it mean anything? If you name the real threat, Sneak Attack, they can just Show and Tell in Griselbrand/Emrakul and you're still boned. If you name Show and Tell, they still have Sneak Attack. Why not just run Pithing Needle? Shut off Griselbrand or Sneak Attack, which is what you really fear, and it's permanent as well since they don't run bounce anymore. It's also active sooner. Turn 1 vs. Turn 4 and you don't have to fetch into a useless colour at times. I remember when I used to run the 1-off Ancient Grudge in the board against Equipment in the Mental Misstep era, but it was only because we didn't have decay and we flat out lost if you couldn't answer Batterskull (and the Badlands was in the board).
-Matt
Words of Wilding seems legit as a means to just put out game crushing advantage in a grinder match, especially with a Sylvan out. We seem uniquely capable of abusing it since we run both Library and Dark Confidant (you get to keep drawing cards while pushing out bears). In testing it let me blow apart a board state of Jace, Counter + Top, and Rest in Peace when I had Sylvan out and was only going to be drawing discard, lands, or Goyfs. In a long game is also gives us the ability to abuse multiple Sylvans. It seems useful even without those advantage engines just to poop out a few bears to maintain board pressure.
It seems better situated than options like Garruk Relentless or Sorin since it can be tutored and is capable of throwing out insane pressure, not to mention Jace Ultimate protection, and is not vulnerable to being killed by creatures.
Main deck, my 3-3-3 Goyf-SFM-Knight is still weak against Rest in Peace, so I'm going to drop Nantuko Monastery for Thespian Stage and sideboard Maze of Ith for Dark Depths. Not sure what to replace in the board.
i am starting to really like the idea of words of wilding, could be really gamebreaking, as with sylvan online words become allmost a 2 turn clock if not handled immideately
the continnous flow of bears every turn is not handleable for any deck in the format (outside of those that ignore this completely)
basically the only way to handle this combo is to either counter one of the parts immideately on sight, or kill it before we get to untap, because in that case the damage is allready done
they could replace my lingering souls maybe... as they might even be viable without tutor board and maybe even without library on board
You could further the idea and run Rest in Peace main deck….could be worth it.
is there some other card or combo that would work well with "words of Whatever" (words of worship would be also usable with library, and you would even gain life of drawing more cards than 1 per turn)
if there are more cards like that you could build a control-deck around library and words of X, but that wouldn't be The Rock anymore :P, probably a mix between the rock and nic fit or something likely, at least from playstyle, but less from deckbuilding :P
Took 20th at SCG Oakland today with Junk. I didn't take great notes, so no tournament report, but I'll leave my list and some thoughts here.
Main:
4x Deathrite Shaman
4x Dark Confidant
4x Tarmogoyf
3x Tidehollow Sculler
4x Knight of the Reliquary
4x Swords to Plowshares
3x Abrupt Decay
2x Diabolic Edict
2x Thoughtseize
2x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Hymn to Tourach
2x Liliana of the Veil
2x Bayou
1x Cabal Pit
1x Forest
1x Horizon Canopy
1x Karakas
3x Marsh Flats
1x Maze of Ith
1x Nantuko Monastery
1x Plains
1x Savannah
2x Scrubland
1x Swamp
4x Verdant Catacombs
3x Wasteland
Side:
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Tormod's Crypt
1x Umezawa's Jitte
4x Stoneforge Mystic
2x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3x Golgari Charm
1x Tidehollow Sculler
1x Thrun, the Last Troll
1x Batterskull
Compared to my last list, I added Nanutko Monastery, 2x Liliana, 2x Diabolic Edict.
Monastery was so-so. I liked having it, and it won a match vs BUG Delver (can't be Abrupt Decayed), but often times I was too busy casting spells or under a Rest in Peace, so it wasn't the most insane ever. I would still run one with in Junk with Knight, but more on this later. I'll play it again, but I'm wondering if it just too cute, and the value of a 4th Wasteland just might be better. There were a couple games today that I Wasted them 3 times, and would have liked the option to tutor for another, and several more games where Monastery was just too mana hungry to bother with, and just acted like a Wasteland without the activated ability...
The Edicts and Lilianas were insane all day. Liliana is awesome, everyone knows this. If you're playing against creatures, and you cast it onto their empty board, having 2 guaranteed Edicts on her is just nuts. Not exactly sure why I wasn't considering her an absolute auto-include for a while there... The Diabolic Edicts were also very good all day. I ran them as another main-board answer to Nemesis (yes, it's not guaranteed the Nemesis will be alone, but often it will be). The instant speed factor is awesome, and it nabbed many Nemsis, a Tombstalker, and tons of Stoneforges/Delvers/Random dudes. Can kill Emrakul. I used to run these in BUG control, but I with Nemsis and SnT around, I think these deserve consideration.
Sculler was good again, won't go too deep here. Not an auto-include IMO, but I have liked the results I've had with him over the past couple weeks.
The oddball Stoneforges in the side deserves an explanation. I like the creatures that I have in the main. Deathrite and Bob will stay, no matter what. Goyf is awesome as a "fire and forget" beater. Cast him once, no more durdling, he just smashes, and only costs 2. Knight is also good at smashing, and is awesome for tutoring sweet lands, but she is slow. Slow or not, she is extremely powerful. The problem is that with 4 Deathrite, 4 Goyf, and 4 Knight, Rest in Peace just kills this build's ability to win. I very much like all the creatures game 1, so I went with them, but gravehate is a serious concern. Thus, I absolutely needed a cheap beater that could win a game without my graveyard, and Stoneforge is the card that does that. I might consider just running Stoneforge over Goyf main, and sacrifice a bit of speed for resiliency, but tying up that extra mana can hurt if your plan is to disrupt/deploy threat every single turn. Then there is the added value of not eating up 6 precious sideboard slots...
Golgai Charm was absurdly good all day, and I feel like 3 is the right number for the board.
Thrun was sort of a last minute include. Again, a resilient beater that doesn't use the yard, plus he can't be countered, nor will he turn into a farmer. I boarded him in a lot (usually when the Stoneforges came it), but I did not see him all day. I still think he's good, but I don't have any actual experience with him today, and haven't run him before. People seem to like him though, so I'll try again.
Bojuka Bog/Crypt. Until now, if I was running Knight, Bog was somewhere in the 75/76, end of story. Crypt is my favorite graveyard nuke. Costing zero is just so attractive. It doesn't ask for extra mana to possibly draw you a card, it just comes down on your turn 1, no-matter-freaking-what, and donks their graveyard. Spellbomb is cool, but 1 (plus asking for additional 1) is a whole lot more than zero, especially when that mana could be casting guys/other disruption. However, I didn't board either in all day. They are still good vs. storm and dredge, but I'm wondering if I can safely cut them to add more stuff like extra Thalias, Edicts, or other goodies.
With all of the stoneblade floating around I can't help but think that the best stoneblade deck is BGW with deathrite shaman, hymn to tourach and abrupt decay. This deck hasn't even been made yet but it sounds rediculous.
4 deathrite
4 stoneforge
4 confidant
1 teeg
1 ooze
1 pridemage
4 abrupt decay
4 hymn
4 green suns zenith
1 unearth
4 swords to plowshares
1 batterskull
1 jitte
1 sword
3 Lilliana
1 library
Lands
Sideboard
3 zealous persecution
2 inquisition
3 lingering souls
3 surgical extractions
4 tide hollow sculler
I'm playing bug right now but this decklist is so cool and has me all up in arms over it. I miss green sun'a zenith and all my white cards pretty bad...
It does a pretty good job of keeping equipment off the table and wining the card attrition war with hymn to tourach and dark confidant.
Deathrite into hymn into stoneforge seems pretty brutal.